https://viewfromthewing.com/american-airlines-and-the-points-guy-are-suing-each-other/ [p] View from the Wing * About + Thank You! How to Support this Blog * Advice + Advice: Frequent Flyer + Advice: General Travel + Advice: Airlines and Airfare + Advice: Hotels + Advice: Credit Cards * Recommended Credit Card Offers * Top 10 Deals * Trip Reports + Trip Reports - Air + Trip Reports - Hotels + Trip Reports - Lounges + Trip Reports - Food + Trip Reports - Other * Advertiser Disclosure American Airlines And The Points Guy Are Suing Each Other by Gary Leff on January 19, 2022 American Airlines has been clamping down on websites that work with AAdvantage member data for their customers. They made Award Wallet stop tracking member accounts and they sent a cease and desist letter to Red Ventures, which owns The Points Guy, over its TPG app which - among other things - lets customers track their frequent flyer program balances. The app didn't have authorized access to American AAdvantage accounts. Instead, as I understand it, it had been 'screen scraping' accounts for members, who provide their login credentials. American sought to stop the practice, and so Red Ventures first sued American Airlines seeking declaratory relief. And now American Airlines and its loyalty subsidiary have countersued in the Northern District of Texas. [Attorneys led by] Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher .. accuse[..] The Point Guy of accessing AAdvantage members accounts through its mobile application in alleged violation of American's terms and conditions. The suit further contends that The Point Guy's app displays American's trademarks and copyrights without permission or licensing. An American Airlines spokesperson offers, Red Ventures is accessing AA.com and AAdvantage customer account data in a way that does not comply with our standards for use of confidential information. We have been in discussions with Red Ventures, hoping to amicably resolve the issues, and we were surprised when Red Ventures filed its lawsuit last Tuesday. We take customer data and proprietary information incredibly seriously, and want to make sure it is protected and secure. When American Airlines forced Award Wallet to stop tracking AAdvantage accounts two things seemed clear: 1. The issue wasn't security, since Award Wallet and American had a security protocol in place, and access via an API. The Points Guy app wasn't doing the same thing, but American has a path to address any security concerns while allowing members to manage their accounts as they choose. 2. The interest was monetization of customer eyeballs, an American Airlines source shared that they wanted customers checking accounts at AA.com where they could be marketed to. I spoke with Brian Kelly, who founded The Points Guy and Brian shared he views the crucial issue as "a consumer should have the right to track their points." He noted that on April 1, 2022 American will start expiring miles again, so he finds the move against sites which help members keep track of their miles to be curiously timed, although I don't believe that's a motivation in the way pushing members to AAdvantage marketing channels appears to be. Brian shared that they haven't received cease and desist letters from any other loyalty program - including United and Delta which have pushed back on other third parties accessing their data. I'd actually love to see the question of whether American AAdvantage website terms and conditions preclude third party access to the site, or use of account credentials supplied to them by the members themselves, litigated to a conclusion. The parent company of The Points Guy certainly has the resources to prosecute this if they ultimately follow that path. Red Ventures owns CNet, Lonely Planet, Bankrate and numerous other websites and reportedly over 3000 employees and a valuation in excess of $11 billion, making its CEO Ric Elias - a passenger on US Airways 1549 - worth over $2 billion personally. And they've taken an aggressive stance by filing suit first. More From View from the Wing 41 Comments << Previous Article Next Article >> [5cc43e60] About Gary Leff Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary >> More articles by Gary Leff >> Comments 1. [36fbf] FNT Delta Diamond says: January 19, 2022 at 5:37 pm It will be interesting to see TPG coverage of American as these lawsuits work their way through the system. 2. [028b7] marc says: January 19, 2022 at 5:51 pm Why does it matter that the CEO was on US Air 1539? 3. [6e706] tommyleo says: January 19, 2022 at 5:53 pm ""a consumer should have the right to track their points." Geez, what childish reasoning. A consumer can still track AA miles/points with the AA site/app. 4. [1a257] Tim says: January 19, 2022 at 5:56 pm One sponsor gone 5. [0c66b] Jorge Paez says: January 19, 2022 at 6:03 pm There will be lawyers..... 6. [27dac] JonNYC says: January 19, 2022 at 6:04 pm Gary, is this sentence missing an ending? "I'd actually love to see the question of whether American AAdvantage website terms and conditions preclude third party access to the site, or use of account credentials supplied to them by the members themselves." ie. did you mean to say "I'd actually love ... to see that litigated" (or similar sentiment.) ? 7. [7d285] WG says: January 19, 2022 at 6:08 pm Since I a very high point holder in AA Advantage, I need to have my points tracked frequently and have updates. Not find out after the fact my points were missing. Too many stories of stolen. It is time now for Top Class Action to be involved. 8. [befd5] L3 says: January 19, 2022 at 6:10 pm @Gary: AA's reasoning for a violation could be used to prevent you checking your wife's AA account on her behalf and with her permission. They are going to lose this. 9. [42814] Reno Joe says: January 19, 2022 at 6:11 pm What do the AAdvantage terms and conditions state? Typically, programs state that the data belongs to the program. The property right belongs to the program and the member has a limited-use license. As such, the program grants access of ITS data to the member. But, the program does not allow its data to be shared by the member with a third party. A program could justifiably state that a violation of this provision is grounds for forfeiture of points and closure of one's account. Don't believe it? Just take a look at AMEX MR terms and conditions. Amex owns the points. The cardholder has NO property rights in the points. 10. [7d2d2] RememberTheConcorde says: January 19, 2022 at 6:19 pm I wonder if this will spill over to AA's relationship with ExpertFlyer, which is also owned by RedVentures. 11. [ce877] huey judy says: January 19, 2022 at 6:27 pm Even after all these years, I do not understand why someone allows a third party to access to their loyalty programs. Is it seriously that burdensome to beam up a website directly and check the status of your points and miles? Do people not realize that a problem with their points/miles will be twice as difficult to solve if there are 3 parties involved? When someone uses your points to buy $250K of Amazon gift cards over a two-week period, do you really want to deal with your 'wallet' people as well as the bank, airline or hotel? Working directly with Chase, it was all handled in ten days with minimal angst. Why do people want a third party involved in their loyalty programs? I just don't get it. 12. [c85fa] Aaron says: January 19, 2022 at 6:44 pm The fact that AA doesn't even let AwardWallet scrape it's emails seems ludicrous to me. I'm no attorney and could be totally off base, but it seems absurd that AA could actually have the legal right to do this. Accessing the data through AA.com I understand, but through a personal email I forward into the app?! 13. [88602] Nick Roscoe says: January 19, 2022 at 6:46 pm Good for TPG. Love this site, btw. 14. [af5d5] Greg says: January 19, 2022 at 6:57 pm Yawn they were solutions in search of a problem to begin with Log into the AA app easy peasy 15. [2a0f7] Chang says: January 19, 2022 at 7:01 pm As the consumer I dictate how I read / access my account. It's simple. Trash suit. 16. [b6cc6] Retired Lawyer says: January 19, 2022 at 7:15 pm Interesting to me is that Red Ventures sued first, presumably somewhere other than Texas. I suspect that AA's suit will either be dismissed or transferred to the other jurisdiction. First in time is first in right. 17. [6d6bd] Marco says: January 19, 2022 at 7:17 pm TPG was a nice, simple, and honest site when it was a blog by Mr. Kelly. Now it is an aggregation of slop, presented with journalism verbiage in articles that bring little information and contain 10x more words than necessary. And the snowflakes turned off comments there. That says it all. 18. [9a3d4] tassojunior says: January 19, 2022 at 7:24 pm I wouldn't have discovered 2 thefts of over a million miles and points each for months if it hadn't been for Award Wallet. American wants you to subscribe to their emails to see your balance pushed to you. 19. [ce87d] Christian says: January 19, 2022 at 8:20 pm @Marco - Kelly was the snowflake that killed off the comments after the disastrous AMA fiasco. He has complete editorial control. With some information that has leaked out about the toxic environment at TPG, I guess they figured that limiting interaction was the way to go. 20. [97eca] Tjp74 says: January 19, 2022 at 8:42 pm To those wondering why anyone would need a 3rd party tool to track your miles instead of checking it your self. Well... you must be new to this game of collecting points and miles. I play the game in 4+ player mode... often 6+... that's my family of 4 plus my parents and one in law. That's 7 AA accounts to track. I'm type of user a tool like AwardWallet and Mint is intended for. My AwardWallet is tracking 68 accounts and don't get me started on Mint. That's Not including AA and United accounts. At least I can track some of Delta accounts through Amex logins. 21. [72433] Boraxo says: January 19, 2022 at 9:58 pm Ditto. My AwardWallet is tracking 48 accounts, of which roughly half belong to my immediate family. It is a PITA to manually update WN and now I guess I will have to do that for AA too. Normally would not care as we rarely fly AA but if points expire then we will have to do some shopping miles and track those points. Would be great to see AAdvantage slapped down but that's a fantasy given legal precedent which bends over to cater to the airlines. 22. [c4891] C_M says: January 19, 2022 at 10:09 pm If AA were smart, they would let third party apps into their data in exchange for the ability to push ads into the third party apps. 23. [6f85a] matthewtravels says: January 19, 2022 at 10:26 pm "Why does it matter that the CEO was on US Air 1539?" Uhhh. What became of US Airways? 24. [557bc] Sam says: January 19, 2022 at 10:28 pm It's a reassuring nod to equity to see these 2 C- organizations waste money going after each other. Party on, folks! 25. [fa716] Karl Rupp says: January 19, 2022 at 10:37 pm Maybe I just don't understand this. From an economic and brand awareness standpoint, shouldn't AA be in favor of ANYTHING that drives interest in tracking and accumulating AA miles or loyalty points, whether internal to AA or external ? And furthermore I have to wonder about the reasoning behind spats like this. Before seeing this blog post I had never heard of "Award Wallet" or of the TPG app in question. Guess what I'm about to google next to see what it's all about and whether I might benefit from it ? Thanks AA for publicizing something you don't like that I was previously unaware of and now may very well put to use to help me manage my customer experience with you. Maybe you should have let sleeping dogs lie, 26. [0c250] TravelSnapp says: January 19, 2022 at 10:53 pm If the desire is to market to their members, perhaps TPG and AA could have amicably resolved this with AA providing API access to point balances in exchange for a defined amount of inline advertising, control over app verbiage on that page, and maybe a few push notifications. 27. [bce11] DCS says: January 19, 2022 at 11:15 pm He [TPG] noted that on April 1, 2022 American will start expiring miles again, so he finds the move against sites which help members keep track of their miles to be curiously timed... The cynic in me agrees that the timing is curious. What do you do when you accidentally sell your miles for $0.004 each and folks acquire millions of them? Either you devalue massively and face a backlash, or you work surreptitiously to expire many times more miles than you'd initially intended to ...by restricting access to venues that alert members that their points are about to expire and how long they have to prevent that from happening. 28. [7afb1] john says: January 20, 2022 at 12:43 am If American wins, there will be even more pressure for legislative action to protect consumers from the one-sided contracts of adhesion known as ff program terms and conditions. 29. [4d05d] Ben says: January 20, 2022 at 1:17 am Will AA / AAdvantage sue Bilt Rewards too? They seem to (maybe) have a better relationship. I ask because well, https:// viewfromthewing.com/ unprecedented-search-american-and-air-canada-award-availability-inside-bilt-app /. 30. [53df6] DaveS says: January 20, 2022 at 4:39 am I'm with those who have dozens of accounts to track. Yes, if you're only an AA loyalist and only care about those particular points it's easy enough to log into AA frequently and keep track that way. The value of Award Wallet is the ability to get updated information on lots of accounts quickly and see right away if anything is wrong, not posting as it should, gone missing, or more happily when points do post so that I can use them. Having to go to each website one by one would be a time consuming, tedious task. I hope TPG wins the suit. 31. [05457] rich says: January 20, 2022 at 5:07 am I can't see Red Ventures winning this and I will say that apparently AA spares no expense when it comes to law firms - Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. 32. [b3864] Judge USA says: January 20, 2022 at 5:27 am @marc "Why does it matter that the CEO was on US Air 1539?" US Airways 1549 was the Miracle on the Hudson. I think Gary is just reminding readers that the CEO of Red Ventures has the same ice-cold Hudson river nerves coursing through his body as the unwavering and superhuman Sully Sullenberger. So basically AA suing Red Ventures might as well be AA suing America itself. I mean basically AA hates America. Case closed. 33. [08b8a] DaninMCI says: January 20, 2022 at 5:43 am As much as I'm not a fan of TPG since they took the Bow Tie Guy route I understand AA's need to try and protect privacy, cyber security, etc. but it's very customer unfriendly. Much like Southwest not allowing (or having the IT that is able to allow) searching on Google Flights. As I continue to see travel companies do stuff like this, it seems like stupid timing. Our loyalty is on hold and as travel demand picks up we are in a new free-agent market like we haven't seen since the 1980s. It's less customer-friendly than the pop-up videos and bottom banners on BoardingArea. 34. [8cbce] James says: January 20, 2022 at 7:49 am @DaninMCI - Southwest not searchable on Google Flights is intentional. They do not publish fares to third parties because they don't want to pay the commission on them. It's not an IT issue at all. Because they don't publish fares, third parties can't get the feed of information and things like Google Flights, Expedia, etc can't price or sell southwest. 35. [4cb00] Paulz says: January 20, 2022 at 7:52 am I hate both AA and TPG. I wish there was a scenario where they both lose...... 36. [46a73] JohnC says: January 20, 2022 at 8:10 am Good for American. Why in the world would someone allow access to your account? Whether it is with Mint, Quicken, Award Wallet or anyone else? The more access means the more chances of your account being hacked. It is stupid to allow anyone else except yourself to have access to your account. If AwardWallet was really interested in helping you to track your miles, they would allow manual tracking, which they stopped doing. Trying adding a new account and see what options you have. 37. [04139] ScottC says: January 20, 2022 at 8:57 am This issue is much bigger than AA or TPG. As a consumer I should have the right to allow any person or any device access to data that I have been authorized to access. If AA has the ability to restrict this then they could also tell you that you can no longer use the Chrome browser, or your phone, or whatever other means you may use to get your data. (Practical rules for rate-limiting or preventing abuse are fine.) 38. [97c7b] JJ says: January 20, 2022 at 11:15 am Hope TPG loses. They suck 39. [61ac4] mbh says: January 20, 2022 at 1:27 pm I can't believe I'm pulling for TPG but I am. Hell must have frozen over. The point is that I want to control who has access to my data and if I choose to have a 3rd point data aggregator for MY convenience then it is MY risk and MY right. Both companies suck and could care less about us, the points traveler, but I am on the side of TPG for the principle. And, yeah, the timing (vis a vis resumption of points expiration) smells fishy to me too. 40. [73af4] Nico Z says: January 20, 2022 at 1:30 pm Could you imagine two less sympathetic parties or worse, being called to sit on a jury for them? The line "I'm concerned about points theft" speaks to awful personal security practices. If you're a publisher of content you have to take even more steps to secure your identity. A points tracking app is a laughably reactive non-solution. 41. [c04cd] Too Many Short Sighted People says: January 20, 2022 at 2:39 pm All of you who say "just check the website/app" either not travel much or are newbies to the award game. It's a pain in the ass to check a handful of programs, let alone dozens of airlines, hotels programs, etc. Aggregate apps and websites make the process way easier and l make it less likely for you to lose points to expiration. American Airlines' refusal to allow sites to display data that you explicitly give access to is an obvious cash grab because 1) American Airlines wants to take even more money off of you by forcing you to go through there site/app and 2) they want you to forget about your points so your points to expire and they don't have to honor free flights. I , for one, want TPG to win on this fight. Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked * [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Comment [ ] Name * [ ] Email * [ ] Website [ ] [ ] Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. [ ] Notify me of follow-up comments by email. [ ] Notify me of new posts by email. [Post Comment] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] D[ ] * * * * Search Search for: [ ] [Search] Current HOT Deals! Here's a link to our Advertiser Disclosure Capital One Venture X Rewards Credit Card [capital-on] Earn 100,000 bonus miles when you spend $10,000 on purchases in the first 6 months CitiBusiness(r) / AAdvantage(r) Platinum Select(r) Mastercard(r) [citibizaa] Earn 65,000 miles after $4000 spend within 3 months. AAdvantage miles are the currency I've redeemed most. [pixel] Free Email Newsletter! Enter your Email: [E-Mail Address ] [Subscribe Now!] Recent Posts * Rent A Car From Hertz, Go To Jail [Roundup] * Airline Pricing Advisor Sees More Basic Business Class Coming Soon [Roundup] * American Airlines Raises The Price Of Purchased Miles * Marriott Won't Even Tell Members When In March They'll Devalue Points * American Airlines Introduces New Flagship Business Plus Instead Of First Class, What Does It Mean? Recent Comments * David on Rent A Car From Hertz, Go To Jail [Roundup] * R H on American Airlines Paying Out Incentives For Employees To Get Exempted From Vaccination * Scottjohn Dansteve on Omicron May Not Be The Last Of Travel's Woes From Covid-19 * Marriott to Cancel and Refund Unused Travel Packages in March on Marriott Will Cancel All Outstanding Travel Package Stay Certificates On February 28 * Alphons on American Airlines Paying Out Incentives For Employees To Get Exempted From Vaccination Archives Archives [Select Month ] Follow me on Twitter My Tweets Blogroll * Cranky Flier * Doctor of Credit * Help Booking Awards * JohnnyJet * Live and Let's Fly * Marginal Revolution * Nomadic Matt * RSS Feed Top Posts & Pages * American Airlines And The Points Guy Are Suing Each Other * Marriott Travel Packages Are Gone And Bonvoy Failed To Provide The Promised Notice To Members * TSA Now Accepts Arrest Warrants From Undocumented Immigrants As ID For Airport Security * IHG Rewards Senior VP Loyalty Explains Big Program Changes Coming, Starting With New Elite Level * American Airlines Introduces New Flagship Business Plus Instead Of First Class, What Does It Mean? About Gary Leff Gary LeffGary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel -- a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. More About Gary >> View from the Wing is a project of Miles and Points Consulting, LLC. This site is for entertainment purpose only. The owner of this site is not an investment advisor, financial planner, nor legal or tax professional and articles here are of an opinion and general nature and should not be relied upon for individual circumstances. Advertiser Disclosure: Many (but not all) of the credit card offers on the site are from banks from which we receive compensation if you are approved. Compensation does not impact the placement of cards in content. Banner advertising, in contrast, is paid for by advertisers (we do not directly control the banner advertising on this blog). I don't include all US credit card offers available on this site. Instead, I write primarily about cards which earn airline miles, hotel points, and some cash back (or have points that can be converted into the same). Editorial Note: The opinions, analyses, and evaluations here are mine and not provided by any bank including (but not limited to) American Express, Chase, Citibank, US Bank, Barclays or any other company. They have not reviewed, approved or endorsed what I have to say. Comments made in response to posts are not provided or commissioned nor have they been reviewed, approved, or otherwise endorsed by any bank. It is not the responsibility of any advertiser to ensure that questions are answered. (c) 2022 Miles and Points Consulting LLC Privacy Policy | RSS Quantcast