https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/06/28/an-announcement-about-the-comment-section Skip to main content ScienceMag.org Search X [ ] Advanced Search * Contents * News * Careers * Journals Share In the pipeline Derek Lowe's commentary on drug discovery and the pharma industry. An editorially independent blog from the publishers of Science Translational Medicine. All content is Derek's own, and he does not in any way speak for his employer. Derek Lowe By Derek Lowe * * * Blog Housekeeping An Announcement About the Comment Section By Derek Lowe 28 June, 2021 In many parts of the US, things are returning to normal thanks to the steep drop in coronavirus cases, which in itself is very likely due to a combination of vaccination and warmer outdoor weather. I very much hope that we can continue this process on into the fall under the threat of new variant strains, and I know that I (and many others) will be watching the statistics very closely as we get into October and November! But there's one little local area that is not returning to normal as quickly as I would like: the comments section of this blog. For many years now, I've enjoyed the generally high signal/noise ratio here. The topics that come up generally inspire either informed comment or honest curiosity, and the level of discussion has been good, especially by the standards of internet comment forums. I have lost count of the number of times people have asked me how I kept things that way, and the (honest) answer was that it was pretty self-maintaining. Not too many people come in blazing with ad hominem attacks about someone else's opinions on mass spectrometry, cellular counterscreening assays, or the other sorts of things that have made up the bulk of the postings here. The pandemic changed that. The readership here increased, but that's not the main problem by itself. I'm sure that many people will drift off - or already have started drifting off - as this site stops becoming a daily stop for coronavirus news and commentary. Some will stay around, and I'm happy to have them. But - and you know where this is going - there have also been several commentators here who have for some time been abusing this site's hospitality. I have mentioned to these people that they don't have to be here, that starting constant wrangling arguments about vaccines, pandemic statistics, etc. in the comments section does not have to be a regular feature of their day. No one's taken the hint. I've also been hoping that these folks would just go away on their own, as fewer and fewer coronavirus posts get written, but that's not happening very smoothly, either. I will still be writing about the pandemic from time to time, naturally, which sets things off again. And even the posts that aren't on that topic tend to get their comments sections diverted all too quickly. So after much thought, here's what's going to happen. Longtime readers will know that I have kept a very light hand on the comments here over the years, but starting today I will be deleting whatever I feel are tendentious comments meant to keep the coronavirus arguments going. I've actually canned a good number of comments over the last few months that are full of outright misinformation, and I'm going to lower my cutoff for that stuff, too. Complaints about censorship, freedom of expression, and so on will be allowed to stay up on this post, but only this one. I'll be deleting those as well if they show up in the comments to other posts, and after an interval the comments to this post will be closed as well. Update: my job will be easier if people refrain from responding to obvious troll comments before I can get to them. To the people who have been abusing the system: you are of course free to have your own opinions, and you are free to express them on your own site or anywhere else that will have you, but this is a warning notice. Do what you like but don't do it here. You are free to contribute your thoughts on other topics if you honestly have something to add or some question to ask, but any sign of attempted pandemic flaming will be deleted as quickly as I see it. Go away and tell everyone that Big Pharma muzzled you, if that makes you feel better. But in the end, you're already going to be the last people standing after the vaccines wipe the rest of us out, right? Isn't that enough? I don't like this solution much. It's going to be a burden on my time for a while , but I don't like it on principle, either. Even so, I think it's worth it to try to wrench this site back to something like what it used to be, before people showed up starting pointless arguments about pandemic statistics and vaccine issues all night long, every damn night of the week. And if the only way to do that is by force, well. . .nothing else has worked. Here goes. 65 comments on "An Announcement About the Comment Section" 1. [4af] Mister B. says: 28 June, 2021 at 8:26 am You have my full support Derek, however, I'm afraid such announcement will gather "troll forces" who will do anything but spam you, just ... because they're trolls. I suggest you switch the security question by a random MedChem question like: "Do you recommand HCQ as a treatment for Covid-19 ?" Yes / No (Alright, I'm trolling too !) Have a good day Derek and once again, thank you for writing this high-quality content on such regular basis since years now ! Reply 1. [6f2] sgcox says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:57 am Nein, just do math questions in binary with the answer or the part of a question in decimal. Like 1010 + 1100 = 22 and see how it goes. Reply 1. [8bb] theasdgamer says: 28 June, 2021 at 11:43 am Your comments are always well-thought-out and sometimes insightful. Like this comment. Reply 2. [311] anon the II says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:21 pm Wouldn't the answer be 10110? No "2"'s in binary. Reply 1. [6f2] sgcox says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:32 pm That is the trick one part of 3 fields is decimal. Otherwise too easy. Reply 1. [8bb] theasdgamer says: 28 June, 2021 at 3:51 pm 10 of us agree. 2. [6f2] sgcox says: 28 June, 2021 at 4:07 pm I personally actually hope you stick around after this pandemic craziness is over and share your opinion about other (probably more important in the long run) topics but _please_ not as passionate as now. 2. [8bb] theasdgamer says: 28 June, 2021 at 11:39 am That question would eliminate nasty, uninformed, unscientific people like Dr. Harvey Risch and many others of his academic caliber. Reply 3. [ce0] Eric says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:46 pm Sorry you've been facing the challenge of trolls. Forum moderation is an unsolved problem. From previous experience as a forum mod, I've found that having a signup process and then unceremoniously banning anyone who ignores courtesy and decorum and imposes their views (whatever those views are) to be the best approach. Whatever you work out, best of luck. Reply 2. [c7d] Sanjay says: 28 June, 2021 at 8:34 am It's disappointing that this move has become necessary (although, man, I am worried it'll eat a lot more of your time than anyone thinks possible, if you're really gonna do it, so, thanks for that) but I think an interesting topic on which we can all only speculate, is what this time in history is going to look like in terms of how science, and maybe some other previously academic enclaves ("critical race theory," say) changed and perhaps were crippled by external events. Reply 3. [3f9] Ross Hartshorn says: 28 June, 2021 at 8:55 am If there is one thing that the world's experience with the internet has shown us in the last 20 years, it is that any sufficiently large community needs policing in some way. Reddit and YouTube and others who built business models which involved no time spent on moderation, have found out that bad drives out the good. I really appreciate your thoughtful and informed analysis (I am one of those people who showed up during/because of the pandemic but intend to stay). I'm sorry you have to spend time doing this, but not at all surprised. The good news is that, as your blog is a lot smaller than Reddit or YouTube, hopefully it will in the long run require a lot less time. Thanks for your efforts, it is greatly appreciated. Reply 4. [455] Andrew L. says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:01 am Glad to hear it. I remember when almost every Alzheimer's post used to have this person come out of the woodwork to spout off about peroxynitrites and I was surprised you never dropped the hammer on them. Reply 1. [800] MrRogers says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:09 am He actually did work out an arrangement with that person, who (to his credit) seems to have kept to it. Reply 1. [45b] Derek Lowe says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:28 am Exactly. These folks are another problem entirely. Reply 5. [b34] Crni says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:20 am Ugh so less Things I will Not Work With and more time spent policing. O tempora, o mores! Reply 1. [45b] Derek Lowe says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:27 am Not for too long, I hope! Reply 6. [2cf] B says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:30 am It will not deter me from viewing your site, which has always been useful and informative. It's your blog...do what you need to do. Reply 7. [5e3] johnnyboy says: 28 June, 2021 at 9:50 am Good move, fully agreed (just hoping I won't get put in the can myself !) Reply 8. [fb8] Radioactive Man says: 28 June, 2021 at 10:04 am I had to Google "tendentious"... seems cromulent though. Particularly annoying is the trolls hijacking comment threads on posts that aren't even about coronavirus, e.g. the recent aducanumab discussions. Reply 9. [c49] Jonas says: 28 June, 2021 at 10:11 am Who has been reading and enjoying your blog for some ten years now! Keep up the awesome work! Reply 10. [a66] Charles H says: 28 June, 2021 at 10:22 am Some site delegate moderation to someone they trust. Consider it. I'm not sure what the minimum overhead would be. Reply 11. [8df] KRL says: 28 June, 2021 at 10:28 am In the past, when I recommended this blog to colleagues, I would remind folks to read the comments, which I found to be often instructive and sometimes amusing. I look forward to being able to give this advice going forward. Keep up the good work, Derek, it is much appreciated. Reply 12. [e6f] Amedeo Vetere says: 28 June, 2021 at 10:49 am I'm 100% with you!!! Reply 13. [fae] Walter says: 28 June, 2021 at 10:55 am Thank you. You have made the right decision, unfortunate as it is. Well done. Reply 14. [3f4] Tom says: 28 June, 2021 at 11:10 am I've never commented here before but have enjoyed reading the informed comments from others. That enjoyment (of the comments, blog posts are always excellent) has receded in the past 18 months so I really hope you manage to corral it back to the informed and respectful discussion it used to be. Keep up the good work! Reply 15. [209] Joe Severs says: 28 June, 2021 at 11:15 am Regrettable but certainly necessary. Reply 16. [5e7] Orvan Taurus says: 28 June, 2021 at 11:52 am As an admittedly less-than-truly-learned and decidedly infrequent commenter: THANK YOU! Reply 17. [234] Not a Doctor says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:02 pm No good deed goes unpunished. I offer condolences, and hope that this too shall pass. Reply 18. [3e4] Dr. Manhattan says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:05 pm I have been a follower of this blog for years. Having spent 26 years in three big pharma companies and 15 years in academia, I have learned so much here that I otherwise would have missed. Thank you for continuing to keep the quality so high. As is obvious you have the support of so many of us who have benefited from this forum. I hope that once the trolls realize they are no longer able to post, the workload on you will go down. Again, thank you! Reply 19. [906] MechPolyChem says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:07 pm I will certainly welcome some peace from the vaccine-denier crowd and ivermectin zealots. Unfortunate that it will probably require a chunk of your time. Perhaps you could deputize some comment moderators? Reply 20. [979] Dave says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:12 pm Thank you. Reply 21. [21f] Annoned says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:17 pm I really wonder if many of the comments have been AI generated. I will appreciate the change. Thank you. Reply 22. [119] MarkySparky says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:23 pm I have been reading In the Pipeline since my undergrad days 15+ years ago, and this comment section has weathered the evolution of the web sooooooo much better than most sites. Sorry that it is going to add to your workload to shovel out the stables, but I am looking forward to the old vibe. Reply 23. [d21] Eugene says: 28 June, 2021 at 12:55 pm Derek, your blog has for me been a place to go for understanding pharma related issues. The comment section is just the chewy filling of the chocalate pecan pie (yes, I tried your recipe). All the commenters you mention seem to be a reflection of an in-grained and sometimes mis-guided distrust of authority. Unfortunately critical thinking and evaluation of sources is a skill set that has fallen into disfavor. The internet seems to have made the problem worse. The moon landing hoax is a pre-internet conspiracy theory. Had a conversation with an elderly man once who was a UFO, Moon landing hoax believer who carried around copious files of mimeographed (yes!) newsletters from the 60's and 70's to prove what he believed to be true and all of it had been recycled onto the internet. The whole HCQ, Azithromycin, etc. seems to have a Homeopathy flavor to it. Curcumin comes to mind when I hear about the clinical results. Reply 1. [d91] Mammalian scale-up person says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:44 pm Best Twitter comment I ever saw: Remember when, before the internet, we thought that the cause of stupidity was the lack of access to information? Yeah, it wasn't that. Reply 2. [e46] Bartleby Lawrence says: 28 June, 2021 at 3:36 pm I really liked the syntax of: "Had a conversation with an elderly man once who was a UFO, Moon landing hoax believer who carried around copious files of mimeographed (yes!) newsletters from the 60's and 70's to prove what he believed to be true and all of it had been recycled onto the internet." Had a giggle momentarily thinking you talked to a UFO. Reply 24. [3fe] Silver Bullet says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:00 pm Has anyone heard of curcumin? It's found in turmeric and really has a lot of good properties. Reply 1. [45b] Derek Lowe says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:02 pm (Twitches slightly) Reply 2. [1a6] Wallace Grommet says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:14 pm Right. Cures every form of cancer. Restores lost hair. Stops Type 2 diabetes without any need for diet and exercise. Are you shilling for big Ayurveda? Reply 1. [8a3] steve says: 28 June, 2021 at 4:02 pm Stop it you guys. You make it sound like it's a peroxynitrite inhibitor or some such miracle drug. Reply 1. [6f2] sgcox says: 28 June, 2021 at 4:24 pm Well, it is of course, as expected. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20869986/ Reply 1. [8a3] steve says: 28 June, 2021 at 5:39 pm It's a breath mint! It's a candy mint! Stop, stop you're both right! It's two, two mints in one 25. [e24] Diver Dude says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:07 pm A very good move. Reply 26. [1e2] Philip says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:09 pm Sorry it has come to this. I would like to second Charles H's suggestion and add one. To lower your overhead, but still keep control, consider having a few trusted people that can flag a post for deletion. Good luck and thanks for all of the posts. 10 year reader, Philip Reply 1. [4af] Gus the Chemist says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:21 pm 8 years and counting ! (Autumn 2013, initiated during an industrial placement, never left) Reply 27. [d5c] Omar Stradella says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:26 pm It was about time, Derek. Currently the noise is way higher than the signal. Reply 28. [2ed] Earl Boebert says: 28 June, 2021 at 1:28 pm Signs of the times, and a good decision. I second the suggestion to enlist volunteer moderators so you don't assume the whole workload. You should anticipate the trolls firing up their bots to flood you. Don't be hesitant about blocking IPs. Good luck, this blog is an asset to professionals and lay persons alike and we should all band together to insure it continues. Reply 29. [992] J says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:00 pm Thank you for your time. Most grateful for the articles. Reply 30. [357] a says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:27 pm thankyou! longtime reader. we need all the signal:noise boost we can get in this world. to quote Asimov "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. '" Reply 31. [536] Anonymous says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:38 pm Speaking of signal to noise, I've been so glad to have somewhere to turn this past year and a half for a measured take on the pharma industry. But like a lot of people, I miss reading about FOOF and all its pals. Not sure if this is an option, but maybe not every post needs comments enabled at all? I'm thinking about it from the Skinner-box angle, where uncertain reward can make people *more* fixated on something, rather than less. If there *are* comment sections for covid related subjects, I could imagine that really obsessive commenters might see it as a challenge to find the exact line of acceptable discourse. Even if you end up deleting those comments, it might not dissuade them from trying again. But if there *is* no forum for their nonsense, they might lose interest. Reply 32. [2df] Steve says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:44 pm If somebody does not like it they can go build their own AAAS Reply 33. [c4d] Lane Simonian says: 28 June, 2021 at 2:54 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Some moderators have very low levels of patience and tolerance and others have very high levels. Derek is on the high end. Terms are easily manipulated into weapons. In my field of study and teaching, it makes me cringe when someone calls someone else a fascist or communist when they have no idea about the historical context of these terms. Trolls and psuedoscience more or less fit into this category of words used as weapons. There are relatively few actual trolls if that terms means presenting information just for the sake of disruption. People can certainly be misguided and incorrect in the information they present (and that does not just apply to people we disagree with), but that is different from deliberately trying to create chaos and confusion. As far as psuedoscience, it is now widely used to describe any kind of treatment we disagree with as ridiculous. When a type of treatment we consider within the mainistream does not work we label it as something that does not work. But when some "alternative" treatment does not work we call it pseudoscience (or even when it does work for that matter). The terms troll and pseudoscience are meant to shame and discredit. Many of the treatments and concerns that people express are either incorrect or will turn out to be incorrect, but it is up to others to show how and why this is the case. This takes an extraordinary amount of patience particularly when the other side seems to be persisting beyond any reasonable point of debate. That is a tradeoff that most people are unwilling to accept, but beyond hate speech, dog whistles, and political conspiracy theories I am willing to read just about anything. Reply 34. [c6f] Smokerr says: 28 June, 2021 at 3:26 pm My full support as well. I come here for the Information and I have no interest in anything other than that. With the D variant coming on where we stand is extremely important to myself and others who are science and data aspects not views or opinions. I admire how you manage it, thank you Reply 35. [8bb] theasdgamer says: 28 June, 2021 at 3:50 pm "Covid19 - the final nail in coffin of medical research" https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/06/28/ covid19-the-final-nail-in-coffin-of-medical-research/ Lots of distinguished academics have remarked about the growing lack of freedom in medical research and expression and Dr. Kendrick lists some of them. E.g., "As far back as 2005, John Ioannidis wrote the very highly cited paper 'Why most Published Research Findings are False'. It has been downloaded and read by many, many, thousands of researchers over the years, so they can't say they don't know: 'Moreover for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias.'" "Marcia Angell, who edited the New England Journal of Medicine for twenty years, wrote the following. It is a quote I have used many times, in many different talks: 'It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgement of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.'" Will Derek Lowe be able to look himself in the mirror as the purveyor of Politically-Correct Science? Reply 36. [081] rhodium says: 28 June, 2021 at 3:58 pm The commentator Charles H is right, get a lackey, I mean intern, to help with moderation if the workload gets bothersome. Or you could follow Asimov and have people define a mole before they can comment. Reply 37. [c16] Rob gillespie says: 28 June, 2021 at 4:19 pm Sorry it has come to this, but 100% agree with your statement. I have followed your blog a long time, and have always loved the thoughtful comments and discussion. I am most sorry that dealing with this will use up your precious time Reply 38. [ce9] Anon says: 28 June, 2021 at 4:57 pm If you just stop posting about coronavirus, it should be ok.They will just leave you alone. I haven't read a single post of yours here in more than a year since you decided to become "vaccine news". I was hoping you'd get back to the good old days, but nothing has changed much. Reply 39. [e07] Tom A says: 28 June, 2021 at 5:30 pm Thanks Derek. See how it goes after a few weeks or months and adjust accordingly. I see this as only one sandbox of problems to work on. Research falsification, image manipulation, threatening individuals who discover the falsification, lazy editors and reviewers, fake-o journals for hire. Gosh the list of sandboxes to work on goes on. A collateral problem is this behavior gives the anti-science types something to justify their skepticism. On a side note using simple interesting trivia questions can help. Like "horseradish" - answer "peroxidase". Reply 40. [154] Jakub says: 28 June, 2021 at 5:32 pm I am one of those who joined for your informative coronavirus coverage, but I stayed for your balanced and measured takes on other topics. I'm far from qualified to voicing my own opinion on most of the topics, so you won't be seeing me in the comments - but I do read them, and I'm all for stricter moderation looking at what's been happening there lately. Reply 41. [6d5] hse says: 28 June, 2021 at 5:32 pm Derek, I totally agree with you. Thank you for doing this. Reply 42. [310] iunggyeon says: 28 June, 2021 at 5:40 pm Sad but the right move I think. I'm a guy who prefers to filter with his eyeballs, but from some noise level upwards this can become a strain on them, too. IIRC I discovered this place quite a long time ago, but only started commenting some time in spring last year because of Covid, about the very few things I happen to know. I am not a chemist, so I had nothing qualified to say before. I happen to remember how and when I got that name, so I can tell the time:) Reply 43. [20c] Nate says: 28 June, 2021 at 6:10 pm I appreciate this. While I still have my doubts about the long term efficacy and safety profile of mRNA, and fear that my questions will be misinterpreted as trolling/misinfo, I would much rather see a dialogue devoid of conspiracy theories and misinfo and one that focuses solely on the science. My only advice would be to use some sort of metric to delete as opposed to simply those that disagree or question else we'll be left with a comment section that goes against open dialogue on the topic at hand and as such would be unscientific. Reply 44. [b4d] Wilhelm Cody says: 28 June, 2021 at 6:20 pm A couple of non-scientific news sites have dropped their comment sections altogether Yahoo news and SFGate no longer have comment sections. The change for those sites actually has helped refocus the reader's time as many of the comments were strings of ego fights or political statements or, in a surprising number of cases, outright slander and name calling. ArsTechnica still has comments which sometimes work and sometimes do not. An advantage of this venue is the lack of scoring. No up/down voting or number of hits. The result is a focus on what was actually said and more responsible replies, on the average. Moderation may be easier when there are no points to be gained other than exchange of ideas and information. Reply 45. [a6f] Dan L says: 28 June, 2021 at 6:25 pm Typically vague and authoritarian. Let me guess, with this policy in place, you would have deleted all "lab leak hypothesis" commentary for being "inflammatory," right up until a few weeks ago, when the Biden administration and NY Times suddenly found it politically expedient to green-light the idea again? Does that sound about right? "Science is what we say it is, when we say so." >But in the end, you're already going to be the last people standing after the vaccines wipe the rest of us out, right? Isn't that enough? Nice strawman. Your attitude is obviously quite insulting and belittling towards anyone who has doubts about the vaccine or who wants more testing. Putting words in the mouth of your debate opponent is exactly the sort of disingenuous behavior that an actual, good moderator would typically try to root out, rather than resort to doing it themselves. Cheers Reply 46. [135] Christophe L Verlinde says: 28 June, 2021 at 6:31 pm Derek, You have my full approval. Keep up your insightful blog. Christophe Reply Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked * [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Comment [ ] Name * [ ] Email * [ ] Website [ ] [ ] Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Time limit is exhausted. 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