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You can keep using GitHub but automatically sync your GitHub releases to SourceForge quickly and easily with this tool and take advantage of SourceForge's massive reach. Check out all of SourceForge's improvements. | Follow Slashdot on LinkedIn x 147800542 story The Internet Communications GNU is Not Unix Also Leaving Freenode: FSF, GNU, plus Linux and Python support channels (fsf.org) 33 Posted by EditorDavid on Sunday June 13, 2021 @02:34PM from the irc-u-later dept. Freenode's Linux support channel has an official web page at freenode.linux.community, which now bears this announcement: 22+ year old ##linux on freenode has been seized by freenode staff The community's (multi-platform) site reminds visitors of the alternative channels #linux on Libera and Linux.Chat on Discord. But they're not the only ones making changes. "[T]he FSF and GNU have decided to relocate our IRC channels to Libera.Chat," reads an official announcement on the FSF blog. "Effective immediately, Libera is the official home of our channels, which include but are not limited to all those in the #fsf, #gnu, and #libreplanet namespaces." As we have had nearly twenty years of positive experiences with the Freenode staff, most of whom now comprise the staff of the Libera network, we are confident in their technical and interpersonal expertise, as well as their ability to make the network as long-lasting and integral to the free software community as they made Freenode. We look forward to joining the large number of free software and free culture projects who have already made Libera.Chat their home, and hope to stay there for many years to come. Also making a move: freenode's #Python channel. Software developer Ned Batchelder, one of the channel's operators (and also an architect at edX), shared a recent experience in a new blog post this morning. When they'd decided to move #python to the new Libera.chat network (run by former Freenode staffers), they also stayed in Freenode's channel "to let people know where everyone had gone." Yesterday, after a heated debate in the Freenode channel where I was accused of splitting the community, I got k-lined (banned entirely from Freenode). The reason given was "spamming", because of my recurring message about the move to Libera. Then the entire Freenode #python channel was closed... Was it malice or was it mistake? Does it matter? It's not a good way to run a network. After the channel was closed, people asking staff about what happened were banned from asking. That wasn't a mistake... [T]he new staff seems to be using force to silence people asking questions. It's clear that transparency is not a strong value for them. Setting aside network drama, the big picture here is that the Freenode #python community isn't split: it's alive and well. It's just not on Freenode anymore, it's on Libera. Freenode was a good thing. But the domain name of the server was the least important part of it, just a piece of technical trivia. There's no reason to stick with Freenode just because it is called Freenode. As with any way of bringing people together, the important part is the people. If all of the people go someplace else, follow them there, and continue. See you on Libera. [apply tags ] - You may like to read: - Apple Repair Tech Posted Woman's Explicit iPhone Photos to Facebook Facebook Says It's Banning the Phrase 'Stop the Steal' Google Suspends Parler From App Store; Apple Gives 24-Hour Warning Parler CEO Complains Vendors 'All Ditched Us Too', While Confused Users Download 'Porn-y' App Parlor Twitter Locks President Trump's Account For 12 Hours, Warns of Permanent Suspension 'Master,' 'Slave' and the Fight Over Offensive Terms in Computing SumTotal's 'ToolBook' (Older RAD/Content Authoring Tool) Is Approaching Its End-of-Life Also Leaving Freenode: FSF, GNU, plus Linux and Python support channels More | Reply Login Also Leaving Freenode: FSF, GNU, plus Linux and Python support channels Post Load All Comments Full Abbreviated Hidden /Sea Score: 5 4 3 2 1 0 -1 More | Reply Login Nickname: [ ] Password: [ ] [ ] Public Terminal --------------------------------------------------------------------- [Log In] Forgot your password? Close Close Search 33 Comments Log In/Create an Account Comments Filter: * All * Insightful * Informative * Interesting * Funny The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. * Decentralize, don't Re-Centralize (Score:4) by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * writes: on Sunday June 13, 2021 @02:39PM (#61483446) Homepage Journal I noticed yesterday that K9-Mail team made the smart move and went to matrix.org [matrix.to]. Reply to This Share twitter facebook Share on Google+ Flag as Inappropriate + + Re: (Score:2) by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes: For a given definition of "smart". IRC was good because it was simple, smart, and basically everyone in the target market for these open source communities already had a client / knew how to use it. Now you're proposing a service most people have never heard of which requires an app that most people have never heard of to access. I struggle to see the difference here for a user to say... go to a website, click contact us, and instead of getting an email address or a form to fill out, getting a link to some a o + Re: (Score:2) by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) writes: Because its easier to make people just switch IRC servers than it is to make them switch to an entirely new and different communication system that requires a new and unproven client etc? These projects are already going to lose channel members in the switch to a different IRC server - to then make people install a new client or operate in a different way means even more people are going to be lost in the transition. o * + * + * Wut ? (Score:1) by poptopdrop ( 6713596 ) writes: I use GNU/Linux and Python on a daily basis and have ZERO IDEA what Freenode is. + + Re:Wut ? (Score:5, Informative) by Nite_Hawk ( 1304 ) writes: on Sunday June 13, 2021 @03:06PM (#61483522) Homepage Freenode is an IRC network, one of the first ways for people to chat with each other in real-time over the internet. Freenode has historically been one of the most friendly IRC networks on the internet for open source projects, but several years ago it's assets were secretly "sold" by an individual working for the project to an outside sponsor. That sponsor has now taken over and is asserting authoritarian rule over everyone remaining so projects are now jumping ship to a new network being set up by most of the former freenode volunteers. I deleted my freenode account several weeks ago and have no plans to ever return. freenode is dead and no longer exists as far as I'm concerned. Reply to This Parent Share twitter facebook Share on Google+ Flag as Inappropriate o o Re: (Score:2) by gmack ( 197796 ) writes: The place has been going down hill ever since Lilo passed. Having him around made it worth dedicating a machine to the cause since he was nice to talk to. # o Re:Wut ? (Score:5, Informative) by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) writes: on Sunday June 13, 2021 @03:23PM (#61483570) Homepage Journal Are you sure they deleted your account? If you are in a GDPR country (or even if not, you can always try) then I suggest sending a Subject Access Request (SAR). If it comes back with anything you can then submit another to ask for it to be deleted. Reply to This Parent Share twitter facebook Share on Google+ Flag as Inappropriate # + o o Re: (Score:1) by poptopdrop ( 6713596 ) writes: You are clearly too thick to see the irony of posting that as an Anonymous Coward. # + 1 reply beneath your current threshold. * + + Re: (Score:2) by mysidia ( 191772 ) writes: They take for granted most of the names they took over to advertise their own projects and company don't have trademark protection. That isn't automatically granted like copyright is. Well, if someone was exclusively using a mark in commerce - they may automatically have the common law trademark, even if it's not been registered. The problem is you can't really assert trademark rights against the channel names on an IRC network. Someone can create "#Kenmore" or "#Mcdonalds" if they want -- there is no cl o o Re: (Score:3) by Entrope ( 68843 ) writes: Trademark law protects against misleading people about the origin or provider of a good or service. If Freenode takes over a channel that was previously used by one group to provide support for software X, and hides the fact that those people moved somewhere else, that is dangerously close to a willful attempt to mislead users. They cannot honestly claim that they created the channel for discussion purposes and only use the name to identify the topic of discussion. # # Re: (Score:2) by mysidia ( 191772 ) writes: Trademark law protects against misleading people about the origin or provider of a good or service. A company's sanctioned free support location is not the origin of a good or service. They don't commit misleading people about the origin of goods or services by kicking a group out of their forum - E.G. Reddit subreddits don't go away just because they later ban some staff members for the actual company, etc. If Freenode takes over a channel that was previously used by one group to provide support for softwa @ @ Re: (Score:3) by Entrope ( 68843 ) writes: A company's sanctioned free support location is not the origin of a good or service. The support is the service being provided, and the people directing that are the origin of it. Making a channel look like the one that was run by someone else is where Freenode's behavior gets questionable. Just like if a Cell phone carrier's store closes; the owner of the storefront they were renting could freely bring in a retailer selling cell phones Yes, but neither the landlord nor the competing retailer could use the or - o Re: (Score:3) by DRJlaw ( 946416 ) writes: The problem is you can't really assert trademark rights against the channel names on an IRC network. You can't? [cornell.edu] (a)Civil action (1)Any person who, on or in connection with any goods or services, or any container for goods, uses in commerce any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which-- (A)is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, # # 9/10ths (Score:2) by algaeman ( 600564 ) writes: Possession is, as always, 9/10ths of the law. Freenode "owns" the channels hosted on its servers, and it would be very difficult to convince a judge otherwise. @ * Who's still sponsoring Freenode servers? (Score:3) by mysidia ( 191772 ) writes: on Sunday June 13, 2021 @03:14PM (# 61483546) How about contacting those companies and suggest Libera instead, and advise them that continuing to support Freenode in its present state is not helpful anymore towards OSS, and is becoming reputational liability due to the malicious conduct of their operators against the open source communities who have been forced to move, etc. Reply to This Share twitter facebook Share on Google+ Flag as Inappropriate + + o + 1 reply beneath your current threshold. * I probably need to turn in my geek card (Score:2) by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) writes: But I really am surprised at how worked up some people are getting over an IRC spat. People have moved a bunch of channels for reasons. So what? This is not the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last. + + Re:I probably need to turn in my geek card (Score:5, Interesting) by Entrope ( 68843 ) writes: on Sunday June 13, 2021 @03:29PM (#61483590) Homepage The anger is not over the channels moving, but over how Freenode has treated people who had channels registered before. Those people have accused Freenode of appropriating the channels, blocking the people who used to control the channels from further control, or even (as in this case) kicking users off the network so they cannot tell users that the people who ran the channels before have moved to a different network. Reply to This Parent Share twitter facebook Share on Google+ Flag as Inappropriate o o Re: (Score:2) by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) writes: Yeah, I get it, but I recall ham-handed management crap like this happening on IRC back in the 1990s. # # Re: (Score:2) by Entrope ( 68843 ) writes: Sporadically, sure -- but this is (a) 20+ years later, (b) systematic across an entire network, and (c) for channels that are much more established than any channel could have been in the 1990s (in part because it is 20+ years later, and that period was calm, particularly on Freenode). @ # Re: (Score:1) by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes: Indeed. I recall this being a reason people moved. The significance here is that Freenode (at least since it has been called Freenode) supported a governance model that was very hands off to avoid precisely this kind of shit. That's why this is news worthy. Kind of like when there's a military coup in Mali people shrug, just another day in an unstable country, but when there's an attempted insurrection in the world's self proclaimed greatest democracy people start paying a bit more attention as this wasn't @ + Re: (Score:2) by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) writes: Eyebrows tend to get raised when a service that has been around and relatively stable for 20 years or more suddenly becomes hostile to its userbase - and, regardless of the reason, thats what happened here. Think of this as the LibreOffice moment for Freenode. o o Re: (Score:2) by TWX ( 665546 ) writes: Think of this as the LibreOffice moment for Freenode. That's almost exactly what I was thinking. I haven't used IRC in probably two decades, and I was an efnet or dalnet user, not freenode, but it is still a little sad to see something get trashed by selfish schmucks. Unfortunately it sounds like freenode's creators did not do enough to ensure that it couldn't be so easily co-opted as it has been. I wonder what the hostile takeover was intended to accomplish. It seems that the big projects are all just leaving. No idea how many social channels exist on the ne # + o + 1 reply beneath your current threshold. * Freenode is full of petty tyrants. (Score:2) by ikhider ( 2837593 ) writes: No shortage of 'hallway monitor' types ops who get off on their power tripping. Glad to see an exodus. But it will be the same all over. Give someone a little bit of power and they block people out of glee. Only a couple of channels on Freenode where there is less tyranny. One can always hope elsewhere would be better... + + Re: (Score:2) by waspleg ( 316038 ) writes: Anything with a hierarchical top down management structure lends itself to petty tyrants and is filled with them. All IRC (always has been), Discord, subreddits, tech news sites... o * + + Re: (Score:2) by TWX ( 665546 ) writes: DEAD PERSON: I think I'll go for a walk. CUSTOMER: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do? DEAD PERSON: [singing] I feel happy. I feel happy. [whop] o * I would have no problem with this except.... (Score:2) by mark-t ( 151149 ) writes: ... that there are bots routinely entering channels on freenode and spamming them with announcements that they should use librechat instead. + * 4 replies beneath your current threshold. * There may be more comments in this discussion. Without JavaScript enabled, you might want to turn on Classic Discussion System in your preferences instead. 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