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Log in or sign up in seconds.| * English [ ][] [ ]limit my search to r/chess use the following search parameters to narrow your results: subreddit:subreddit find submissions in "subreddit" author:username find submissions by "username" site:example.com find submissions from "example.com" url:text search for "text" in url selftext:text search for "text" in self post contents self:yes (or self:no) include (or exclude) self posts nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no) include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog see the search faq for details. advanced search: by author, subreddit... this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2021 1,707 points (93% upvoted) shortlink: [https://redd.it/ntky] [ ][ ] [ ]remember mereset password login New Link New Post Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. get reddit premium chess joinleave373,821 readers 2,785 users here now FILTER BY FLAIR News Puzzles Games Strategy Twitch Other Resources * How to get better at chess * Book Recommendations * Online Resources * Frequently Asked Questions * Instructions for /r/chess PGN addon (Chrome, Firefox) * Public Moderator Logs Subreddit Rules * Keep the discussion civil and friendly. * Don't engage in abusive, discriminatory, or bigoted behavior. * Low-effort submissions are not allowed. * Don't ask for advice about ongoing games. * Don't spoil tournament results in submission titles * Do not use /r/chess exclusively to promote your own content. * Twitter/Facebook posts must contain a direct link to the tweet/ post, and include the author's name Related Subreddits * /r/AnarchyChess * /r/chessbeginners * /r/chessporn * /r/chessvariants * /r/Chessbooks * /r/TournamentChess * /r/Computerchess * /r/chessclub Notes/Suggestions * Chess Spoiler format for problem answers etc., >!Spoiler text!< Ng1 and white wins * Use the message the moderators link if your posts or comments don't appear, or for help with any administrative matters. * Please continue to give us your feedback and suggestions on how we can help make /r/chess better for everyone. This subreddit is night mode compatible a community for 13 years MODERATORS * message the mods * MrLegilimensf3 Nimzos all day. * publicmodlogs * chessvision-ai-botfrom chessvision.ai * Juxxtapose_Plays the Nakhmanson religiously * city-of-starsgive me 1. e4 or give me death * powerchickenYahoo! Chess(tm) Enthusiast * atopix[?] * nemoj_da_me_peglas1800ish chess.com * ChessBotMod * 2017_BCS_ORANGE_BOWL * ...and 4 more >> discussions in r/chess <> X 1708 * 135 comments [sGk8XgWl] The following position is, believe it or not, a legal position. Deduce what white's first bishop move must have been. 353 * 25 comments [GCSXr5pV] White to move and be awesome. 5579 * 196 comments [KbZlKQtW] "Advice to Chess Beginners" - from the January 1933 issue of Chess Review magazine 25 * 5 comments [An97wehd] [Article] Paris 1900 - Emanuel Lasker's Finest Hour 13 * 5 comments [YaPctbLt] Before 1972, there was a hole in the rules of Chess. In this position, under today's rules, black is winning. Before 1972, white is winning 24 * 10 comments Richard Rapport, Lenier Dominguez Perez & Victor Laznicka withdraw from World Cup 12 * 93 comments [giQ-VwYf] I ranked chess youtubers based on how educational they are. Thoughts? 5 * 8 comments I'm a bit scared of OTB chess now. 9 * 7 comments First USCF tournament 21 * 11 comments [_eJGMksX] Mate in 4 I came across when playing a bullet. WHITE to play Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. x 1706 1707 1708 [sGk8XgWl] The following position is, believe it or not, a legal position. Deduce what white's first bishop move must have been.Miscellaneous ( i.redd.it) submitted 10 hours ago by zx2409[klvxk1wggf]2[5izbv4fn0m]3 [ks45ij6w05]2 * 135 comments * share * save * hide * report loading... sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) [ ] Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account you are viewing a single comment's thread. view the rest of the comments - [-]zx2409[S] 497 points498 points499 points 10 hours ago*[klvxk1wggf] [5izbv4fn0m][silver_48][ks45ij6w05] (41 children) There is only one answer: Ba7 First notice that black's light square bishop must have been promoted. The promotion square must be b1. Hence white's b2 pawn must not have moved before the black bishop is promoted, otherwise the promoted bishop cannot return to g6. Hence, black's e pawn must have moved from the e file to the a file then back to the b file, capturing 5 pieces along the way. If it never reached the a file, then there's no way to reach b1 because white's b2 pawn must not move before black promotes on b1. Thus, you can infer that white's dark square bishop on c1 at the start of the game must have been captured(of course, by a black knight) to allow for more white pieces to be captured by the black e pawn, so that it can reach b1 without disturbing the b2 pawn. Thus, white's c1 bishop in the final position must have been promoted. The promoted pawn must have been the a pawn, and it can only promote on b8. Promoting on d8 would require 5 captures. Black doesnt have enough pieces to feed white's pawn cuz in the final position black still has many pieces left. Thus, white's first bishop move is Ba7 Here is a PGN that can reach the position:1. Na3 e6 2. Nc4 Nc6 3. Nb6 Nd4 4. Nxc8 Nb3 5. Nb6 Nxc1 6. Nd5 exd5 7. Nf3 Nb3 8. Ne5 Nc5 9. Nc4 dxc4 10. Qc1 Ne4 11. Qd1 Ng3 12. Qc1 Nxf1 13. Qd1 Ng3 14. Qc1 Nf5 15. Qd1 Nd4 16. Qc1 Nb3 17. axb3 a6 18. b4 Bc5 19. Ra3 Ba7 20. Rb3 cxb3 21. Qa1 Qb8 22. Kd1 Nf6 23. Kc1 Ng8 24. Kb1 Nf6 25. Qa2 Ng8 26. Ka1 Nf6 27. Rb1 bxa2 28. b5 axb1=B 29. b6 Ba2 30. bxa7 Be6 31. axb8=B Bf5 32. Ba7 Bg6 33. Bd4 O-O 34. b3 Rfe8 35. Kb1 Rf8 36. Kc1 Rfe8 37. Kd1 Rf8 38. Ke1 Rfe8 39. Kf1 Rf8 40. Kg1 Rfe8 41. Bb2 Rf8 42. Bc1 * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]Trufa_ 255 points256 points257 points 9 hours ago (2 children) Dude, I honestly thought you were trolling, that is sneaky af. Well done! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]completesucc 14 points15 points16 points 4 hours ago (1 child) I didn't get it - new to chess please explain * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]jeremyjh 28 points29 points30 points 4 hours ago (0 children) At first glance the position looks impossible. Black's e pawn traversing the board via captures of white so that it could promote on b1 was much further than my brain could stretch. I knew the black light square bishop had to have been promoted but couldn't see how that was possible since white's e pawn was still in place, black's only missing pawn could not have moved straight forward to promote and anyway that would have been a DSB. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]eddiemon 46 points47 points48 points 8 hours ago (1 child) Some more observations, some of which weren't immediately obvious to me: * Black's LSB was promoted because black's b- and d-pawn haven't moved, therefore the original bishop couldn't have made it off its initial square. Similarly, white's original LSB was captured on its initial square. * Since black's e-pawn is the one that promoted, it must have promoted on b1, since it promoted to an LSB and other light promotion squares are inaccessible. Black's promoted LSB was able to get out from b1, so b3 must have been played after black's LSB got out, which means white's original DSB was not able to move before black's pawn promoted to a bishop. * In order for black's e-pawn to reach b1, it must capture 5 times (e-d, d-c, c-b, b-a, a-b), which means white's original DSB was captured, since if it had stayed in its initial position, white's queen and king's rook could not have gotten out, which only leaves white's two knights, queen's rook, and the a-pawn available for capture by the pawn, which is not enough for it to successfully promote on b1. So white's current DSB must have been promoted from the a-pawn. * This means black's e-pawn captured white's queen, two rooks, two knights, and nothing else. * Of his initial pieces, black still has its two rooks, and one knight. Black's LSB could not have left it's initial square, so the a-pawn could not captured it. So a maximum of three black pieces (queen, knight and DSB) were available for capture by white's a-pawn. So the pawn could not have made it to d8, f8 or h8 without disturbing black's other pawns, and could only have promoted on b8. To get out from b8, without moving black's pawns, it only has Ba7 available. Therefore, that is white's first bishop move. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fame_stencilI beat an 1890 once 29 points30 points31 points 8 hours ago (6 children) Can someone make a lichess link to an analysis? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]badaclimpbadaclamp1 56 points57 points58 points 7 hours ago (4 children) https://lichess.org/MuOLleDU/white * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fame_stencilI beat an 1890 once 35 points36 points37 points 7 hours ago (1 child) Thanks! I get it now. While theoretically possible, it's totally ridiculous! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]PlCKLES 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (0 children) By the way, I found a better move for White on move 26. Can you find it? (Hint: is there any way to save the queen?) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]HaydenJA3AlphaZero 20 points21 points22 points 7 hours ago (1 child) Is this theory? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]BuzzedWoody 23 points24 points25 points 5 hours ago (0 children) "And it is only now, as of move 42, that we have a completely new game" -Agadmator * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ADK-KND 10 points11 points12 points 8 hours ago (3 children) I really need to learn how to read the PGNs more efficiently * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]_conky_ 9 points10 points11 points 6 hours ago (2 children) Yeah this is rough reading the answer and still not understanding it lol * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Shaymefull 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (1 child) Simple answer: pawns moved like bishops by capturing pieces, b2 pawn didn't move until after black pawn captured on b1 promoting to the bishop and then escaping out of a2. White bishop was also originally the a2 pawn. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]_conky_ 1 point2 points3 points 5 hours ago (0 children) Hahaha originally I thought you were saying pawns could attack backwards or something but it finally clicked I get it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it for me lol * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]chuby1tubby 3 points4 points5 points 2 hours ago (0 children) This is just dumb * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]mathisfakenews 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (0 children) wow. Well done. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]rzaga09 3 points4 points5 points 8 hours ago (0 children) had no choice but to give an award. this is brilliant. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]YesImARealDoctor 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago (0 children) This is genius level deductive reasoning. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]AxeAndRod 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (0 children) Couldnt white have just taken the light square bishop? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]sluggles -1 points0 points1 point 7 hours ago (6 children) Couldn't white's light squared bishop have been taken by black's knight? Perhaps black's bishop and queen were pinning the pawns to the king. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]RemcoProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago (5 children) They could have, but then this position wouldn't have been reached, so that's not the answer. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]sluggles 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago (4 children) But why not? I don't see why it's impossible. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]RemcoProgrammer 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (3 children) Sorry I misunderstood your comment. Yes, white's light squared bishop must have been taken by a knight. But that's not the problem -- how did black's white squared bishop get to where it is?! And if you dig deeper and deeper to find the answer to that, you'll eventually find what the first move of white's black squared bishop was. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]sluggles 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (1 child) Oh, I wasn't really looking at black's position because the title mentioned White's first bishop move. I was thinking the position was suspicious because White's light squared bishop was missing, but the pawns in front weren't. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]971365 0 points1 point2 points 14 minutes ago (0 children) Yeah that's why it's a puzzle * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]AltruisticRaven 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Great work. What was your path to come up with this puzzle? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]RedAsh_873 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) I'm still too dumb for this. One day I'll get good enough to understand what this all means lol * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]sin-eater82 0 points1 point2 points 3 minutes ago (0 children) White doesn't have a bishop that can go to a7 on its first move. White could go to a6. Black has a bishop that could go to a6 as well. Maybe that's what you meant? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Crunktd -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 hours ago (6 children) There is more than one answer black could have just allowed white to capture all his pieces a long the back rank while not doing anythig and then moved back to that position. SO no it doesnt have to be super complicated you could just be white move all your pieces out (except the bishop which black comes and takes, then move your pieces back. There is 100% more than 1 answer * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]QueueBay 1 point2 points3 points 5 hours ago (3 children) There is more than 1 answer, but white's first bishop move is a7 in all of them. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Bilbowtech -2 points-1 points0 points 3 hours ago (2 children) Why not a3? There's plenty of variations that allow that. Try it out. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]QueueBay 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago* (1 child) Notice that black must have promoted a pawn to a light squared bishop on b1 (because black's b and d pawns have not moved). Further, black must have promoted their e pawn on b1. Therefore black needed to capture five pieces. Look at the pawns. The only way for a black pawn to capture five pieces is if white's dark squared bishop has either moved or been captured, otherwise it's impossible for white to sacrifice their queen and other rook. If the dark squared bishop had moved, then white must have first moved the pawn on b2. But this is impossible, because black's promoted dark squared bishop needs to go to a7, then eventually to g6. The pawn structure in the picture would be impossible if white moved their b pawn before black retreated their promoted bishop. Therefore we can conclude both white's bishops were captured without moving, so the bishop in the picture was promoted on b8, d8 or f8, and cannot possibly have moved to a3 as its first move. Try it out. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Bilbowtech 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (0 children) Ah... the black pawns being set and the bishop outside of them. I see it now. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ENESM1 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (0 children) Can you illustrate? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]PoolboyOfficial 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago (0 children) No, all of the captured black pieces need to be captured by a white pawn. Otherwise there is no way White can promote and end up in this position * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply * about * blog * about * advertising * careers * help * site rules * Reddit help center * reddiquette * mod guidelines * contact us * apps & tools * Reddit for iPhone * Reddit for Android * mobile website * <3 * reddit premium * reddit coins * redditgifts Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. (c) 2021 reddit inc. All rights reserved. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. 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