https://avherald.com/h?article=4e35503b&opt=0 The Aviation Herald Last Update: Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 19:37Z 26442 Articles available Events from Jun 19th 1999 to Feb 21st 2021 www.avherald.com Incidents and News in Aviation Next Sort list List Earlier Next Later List by: by currently Filter: Crashes Accidents Incidents News Reports [ ] search Article Article Occurrence sorted by On On On On On date Update --------------------------------------------------------------------- [INS::INS] [INS::INS] The Aviation Herald Apps Android and iOS Incident: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine, engine fire AVHAPP on Android and iOS Support The Aviation Herald By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Feb 20th 2021 21:24Z, last updated Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 11:36Z one time Support The Aviation Herald A United Boeing 777-200, registration N772UA performing flight UA-328 from Denver,CO to Honolulu,HI (USA) with 231 passengers and 10 crew, Monthly support was in the initial climb out of Denver's runway 25 when the right 1 EUR/month hand engine's (PW4077) inlet separated associated with the failure of Monthly Support The Aviation Herald the engine. The crew declared Mayday reporting an engine failure. The aircraft stopped the climb at about 13000 feet, the crew requested to Interview: return to Denver after running the checklists. ATC offered any The human factor named "Simon runway, they would make it happen. The aircraft returned to Denver Hradecky" and the team of man and for a safe landing on runway 26 about 23 minutes after departure. The machine aircraft stopped on the runway for a check by emergency services. Emergency services advised of an active fire within the right hand engine and extinguished the fire a few minutes later. The aircraft was subsequently towed off the runway to a remote parking stand, where passengers disembarked and were bussed to the terminal. There were no injuries. The engine inlet fell into the neighbourhood of Broomfield,CO, located about 16nm west of Denver near 13th and Elmwood Street, the debris also struck through the roof of an adjacent house. Broomfield police reported that although debris impacted the neighbourhood and damaged a number of homes, there were no injuries on the ground. The debris field expands over a nautical mile. Ground observers reported hearing the sound of an explosion like bang, smoke and saw the debris falling down. The aircraft continued flying. Another ground observer, John Sloan (also see reader comments below), reported: "I was walking home from lunch and heard a boom. I thought it might be a fighter going supersonic, but when I looked up I noticed a 2-engine commercial plane on a roughly west-bound heading. There was a fairly low cloud deck (maybe a few thousand feet) and he was just below it, so it was difficult to discern visual details, but I suddenly heard his engine noise go from silent to moderately loud (that might have been what made me notice him) - not sure if he applied power or if it was a trick of acoustics. Looking behind him, there was what looked like a large black puff of smoke (but it might have just been clouds). Similarly, it looked like there was a thin trail of black smoke coming from the starboard engine, but again, it was hard to make out and might have just been a contrail. As he passed overhead the smoke trail seemed to go away. Once past me, he might have begun a turn to port (back towards the airport), but he vanished into the clouds so it was hard to tell. It looked like the aircraft was under control the whole time it was visible." The following day John Sloan wrote in his reader comment: "Two things: 1) I was giving Simon a heads up to look for a report out of DEN - if it was anything, I thought it was just something like a (big) compressor stall. That was why so many caveats were there - I wasn't sure at the time that the aircraft had had a problem. I didn't realize it was going to be widely reported until my mother texted me a couple of hours later asking if any of the plane parts came down close to me. 2) Something I omitted that I should have put in: After I got home I imagined how many thumb-widths at arm's length it would take to occlude it (from memory), and plugged that into similar triangles and the length of a 737 (didn't realize it was a 777) to get an estimated altitude and got 2-4 thousand meters. I thought the cloud deck was only 2000 feet AGL or so, so I didn't believe the numbers. I did change "a couple" to "a few" though. Turns out it was ~8000 feet AGL. I should have believed more in the math!" The FAA reported the aircraft experienced a right hand engine failure and is aware of debris on the ground along the flight path of the aircraft. The FAA as well as the NTSB have opened investigations, the NTSB is leading the investigations. The NTSB stated they have opened an investigation into the occurrence, "Denver-based NTSB investigators are responding". On Feb 13th 2018 a fractured and separated fan blade had caused the engine inlet and cowl to separate from the right hand engine of B772 registration N773UA, see Incident: United B772 over Pacific on Feb 13th 2018, fan blade, engine cowl and inlet separated in flight, blade debris impacted fuselage. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL328/history/20210220/1925Z/ KDEN/PHNL Metars: KDEN 202053Z 36019KT 10SM BKN100 BKN200 11/M04 A2967 RMK AO2 SLP031 T01111039 56036= KDEN 201953Z 18005KT 10SM FEW085 SCT130 SCT200 13/M09 A2970 RMK AO2 SLP040 T01331094= KDEN 201853Z VRB04KT 10SM FEW090 FEW200 12/M09 A2973 RMK AO2 PRESFR SLP052 SHSN OMTNS DSNT W-NW T01171089= KDEN 201753Z 21015KT 10SM FEW070 FEW100 FEW200 11/M07 A2979 RMK AO2 SLP077 T01111072 10111 21044 58018= KDEN 201653Z 21017KT 10SM FEW070 FEW100 FEW200 09/M07 A2982 RMK AO2 SLP091 T00891072= KDEN 201553Z 21015G23KT 10SM FEW070 FEW100 FEW200 06/M07 A2984 RMK AO2 PK WND 20026/1513 SLP103 T00611072= Passenger video in flight (Video: Michaela): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_qbBZ2kVlM Passenger video of landing (Video: Troy Lewis): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGqBw6RHzE4 The aircraft seen in flight: The aircraft seen in flight The aircraft seen in flight (Photos: Hayden Smith): The aircraft seen in flight (Photo: Hayden Smith) The aircraft seen in flight (Photo: Hayden Smith) The fan blades seen in flight: The fan blades seen in flight The engine inlet in a garden (Photo: Broomfield Police): The engine inlet in a garden (Photo: Broomfield Police) Engine debris on the Broomfield soccer field: Engine debris on the Broomfield soccer field Debris on a road, possibly a pipe to/from/of the engine: Debris on a road, possibly a pipe out of the engine --------------------------------------------------------------------- Reader Comments: (the comments posted below do not reflect the view of The Aviation Herald but represent the view of the various posters) --------------------------------------------------------------------- @ anonymous By BobLoblaw on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:57Z If you know more about not turning into a good engine - please explain for nitwits like us. Captain Keith Watkins mentioned SOP and that it supports his comment The whole turn thing is for light, underpowered piston twins where your single engine speeds are perilously close to Vmc, which is the speed below which you are going too slow to maintain directional control. And unlike jets, the wings of prop twins derive some of their lift from the propeller s airflow, and a turn into a dead engine slows that wing down a bit, reducing its lift even further. Modern jets have so much power that speed is really only an issue initial part of the climb immediately after take off, and we never make any turns below 400 anyway. As far as SOP s go, Captain Wannabe is blowing smoke I ve got over 12,000 hours on 5 different jet types and I can tell you there is NOTHING anywhere in a jet SOP that even mentions it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Lulz By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:56Z Enjoy the bunk Watkins... Grownups gonna have a chat now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I think we've covered all perspectives on the turn issue By Carl on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:56Z ...doesn't seem to be particularly productive from this point forward. Someone yesterday posted a reference to a borescope procedure done on this specific engine recently. Any more information on that? --------------------------------------------------------------------- anonymous By Captain K Watkins on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:44Z I hope that you are never put into this situation but when you start to lose control, maybe you will remember what I said. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Unease pax By Aggressive anonymous on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:39Z Might need to review my earlier statement there... I said the guys who have 2k are often more competent than the 10k crowd. Myself... Well I'm at a measly 8k. Anyway, how exactly should I "unprove" his false assertion? It doesn't exist in any Boeing FCTM or FCOM. The entire paragraph discussing turns with one engine inoperative also fails to mention it. Reason is because this is a light twin technique not a large jet procedure. As for using "jargon"... How would you like me to describe Ref80 in a way that isn't jargon like... Professionals will know what I mean, interested people can look it up. It's not that complex. But for your amusement... Do you prefer I say "clean speed", Ref30+80, Ref80, "the airspeed at which the aircraft can maintain sufficient maneuver margin to stall based on existing weight, atmospheric, and company requirements"... I mean the last one is kind of wordy but we can make it happen. --------------------------------------------------------------------- @(anonymous) By Confused on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:34Z Ah gotcha. If there's no difference in risk then the advice would indeed seem antiquated. To be honest, I'm still struggling with the concept of how it isn't any more risky to turn into the damaged engine but I can understand that I"m out of my league on this one. But yea, I guess if time is the biggest determiner in survivability you'd want to try whichever turn gets you on the ground fastest and back off from that turn if the plane shakes in some weird way :) Cheers, and thanks for the explanation. --------------------------------------------------------------------- anonymous By Captain K Watkins on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:27Z From the the flight track it looks like left hand turns only, that would be towards the operating motor. Excellent airmanship and probably contributed to everyone getting safely back on the ground which is what it s all about. Well done to the crew! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Watkins... Haiyaaaa... By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:27Z Seriously grandpa. I've been at this for several thousand hours... "Made left" in the 72, 73, 75, and 77. Don't need your validation... And your spectacles are obviously pointed at a Piper POH. ONLY time boeing limits bank to 10 Degrees or less on a failed motor is when at V2+10 or less... Never at V2+15 or Ref80. There is a general practice to limit banks to 15 until clean but the maneuver margin is available up to 30. Again Gramps... It's time for you to hit the bunk and let the competent people have a good laugh. --------------------------------------------------------------------- @ Capt K Watkins By Bob Loblaw on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:25Z if you check your SOP s you will find them there. I ve flown the CRJ, EMJ 175/190, A340, A320 family, and the 767. NONE of the SOP s for those airplanes says anything anywhere about only turning into the good engine. And I know without having to look that the 777 doesn t either, because it s simply not a jet thing. You don t know what you re talking about, Microsoft Flight Sim Captain Wannabe. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Confused By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:23Z There is no fundamental or calculable difference in risk given what we know up front. If the wing is damaged to the point that it would shred going into a turn it will definitely shred on the way out of it as well. Then, if the engine threw a blade how can we be certain the damage isn't on the other side or in the rudder or horizontal stab thru big or small miracles of physics? We really can't so as a matter of procedure we operate normally... In general airplanes will "tell" you they don't like what's happening to them by shaking. That sounds rather quaint when I say it but every single Boeing checklist for such events includes verbiage to consider "airframe vibration"... If there is none then the manuals proceed normally and assume the aircraft is generally sound enough to continue flight. --------------------------------------------------------------------- anonymous By Captain K Watkins on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:18Z Anonymous, I now have my spectacles on which should make things clearer to all of us. 5-10 degrees of bank into the live engines (unless you are unfortunate enough to fly a twin) in which case it would be towards your one remaining engine. Fly the aircraft, stay clear of high ground, communicate with ATC, go into a holding pattern, run your company checklist, make a plan, communicate that plan to your crew and pax and execute it. You will find it all in your company SOP s. Maybe one day you will make the left --------------------------------------------------------------------- @ an aggressive Anonymous By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:17Z Aggressive pilots like you (2000 hrs "know it all") make me feel uneasy while sitting in the back of an airplane. You do not bring any arguments, just call other guys incompetent and spewed some jargon around to show-off what you perceive your credentials. If you know more about not turning into a good engine - please explain for nitwits like us. Captain Keith Watkins mentioned SOP and that it supports his comment - you just called on him to retire - Classy. --------------------------------------------------------------------- @(anonymous) By Confused on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:15Z Yea, that was kind of my point re: not being able to see the damage. If you don't know the condition of the aircraft, wouldn't proceeding in the most risk averse manner be the most prudent? I mean, the primary job of the flight crew at that point would be to keep the plane in the air, right? Is there any physical reason why turning into the bad engine would be less risky than turning into the good one? Or are everyone's assertions here saying there is no difference in risk? --------------------------------------------------------------------- @ Capt K Watkins By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:10Z Yes we do request to turn into the live engines On your Piper Seminole, sure. On a jet? Laughable. 23 years of flying jets and not ONCE have I ever heard anyone advocate for it. Only the serious long-sleeve shirt types would ever even think of it. Stuck to your Seminole and let the actual jet pilots talk. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Watkins... Haiyaaaa By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:06Z Give yourself a break... Your brain has clearly been fried from overthinking. You will not find any reference to this "non Boeing procedure" in any manual except in cases where some equally incompetent pubs guy added it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Anonymous By Captain K Watkins on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 22:02Z Correction. E mail --------------------------------------------------------------------- Confused By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:57Z Because they're either incompetent or posers. There's no way to know of structural damage (in an event like this) from the flight deck... You need to contort your body to some extreme angles to even see the wingtip on a 777. The direction of turn is irrelevant in a situation like this, even at V2 it's irrelevant since we base our V speeds on margin above VMC (transparent to pilot, but the performance computer and the airplane "knows"). The only relevant question for the direction of turn is "where do I need to go?" Be that due to ATC instructions, positioning for the return, or a turn procedure to avoid terrain. These good engine turners are entirely out of their depth or purely incompetent. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Turners By Captain Keith Watkins on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:57Z Hi guys, excuse me God should read good. Turning into good engines is fundamental to good management , if you check your SOP s you will find them there. Any Captain worth his position will agree. Don t assume that because you may have 2000 hours you are Gods gift to aviation. You are but a reckless puppy, that s why we have Captains. Well done to the entire crew for a good outcome. I will wait for the investigation and see what we can learn from this. Hint ! (Don t hide behind anonymous) My mail is watkins_ keith @ should you need any assistance. --------------------------------------------------------------------- By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:51Z For those wondering why this isn't considered an accident, engine failures that do not cause damage to the aircraft itself are considered incidents. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Watkins By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:51Z Clearly you have no comprehension of how low VMCA is on the 777 (or large transports in general)... This is a V1 Vr V2 problem... Not a Ref30+80 problem. Furthermore in the case of the 777 the TAC and FBW serve extraordinarily well at making the direction of turn an extreme non-issue. Retire already; your incompetence is showing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Into or away from damaged engine By Confused on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:48Z Not a pilot but unsure of backlash against Ex 777 for his comment regarding not turning into a damaged engine. Wouldn't it be less risky to turn into a wing you know to be good as opposed to one you don't know the condition of? (given all of a few seconds to make a decision, of course). Just seems less risky to put a wing that may lose lift on the high side so that, if it stalls, it levels the plane rather than sends it inverted. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Accident v. Incident? By Flutterby on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:41Z I assume because the Longtail B744 engine failure involved injuries (to people on the ground), while the United B772's much more dramatic-looking engine failure, has been reported to have caused no injuries at all. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Accident v. Incident? By eqd on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:30Z Why is this tagged as an incident, but the Longtail B744 uncontained enginer failure on Feb. 20 tagged as an accident? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Turners By Capt K Watkins on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:19Z Yes we do request to turn into the live engines, it s god airmanship and is a result of studying the aerodynamics involved. Please do a little more study on your machine re Vmca air and I may fly with you . Until then Captain please enjoy your solo flights. --------------------------------------------------------------------- @ex777 By BobLoblaw on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:13Z As a former instructor on this aircraft... Glad you weren t MY instructor you obviously don t know anything about flying big jets. I guess that s why you re EX 777. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Likely fan blade off event By Freedombird72 on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 21:02Z Looking at the still photo of the fan, sure looks like a missing fan blade, and maybe half the trailing blade. FAA cert requires FBO, windmilling and Good Engine Fly Home for one blade release at root, but not more than that. The engine doesn t have to keep running (obviously) but it does have to remain structurally intact for ETOPS rating duration. The nacelle is a different story. Looks like the containment system worked (no high-energy debris release). Ugly, but this is a testament to the design and regulatory requirements and why they exist. --------------------------------------------------------------------- @SEN Flyer: Packs By CE-HAM on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 20:35Z The Fire Extinguishers work in closed areas. They are designed to fill a closed compartment (between engine and nacelle, that is) with something that does not burn. As the nacelle is tumbling to the ground in pieces, the extinguishers do not work. These people were in luck several times! Kudos to all that were involved in getting this plane safely on the ground. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The turners By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 20:21Z You nitwits who only want to turn into a running engine better retire already. No need for your brain dead "old school" mentality in flying jet transports. Flown with many of your kind in the last 15 years... The kind who like to whine and complain about the young guys but after 10000 hours you seem to know and understand less than the 2000 hour guys... And, yes, when heavy crewed we do laugh at the nonsense you spout when you're in the bunk. --------------------------------------------------------------------- By (anonymous) on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 20:13Z Ah. Ecumenico. I recognize the nonsense you spout... Do yourself and sit down and shut up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Response to Anonymous By Walter on Sunday, Feb 21st 2021 19:15Z "transatlantic flights like the Amazon plane that crashed in Texas" - anonymous poster That was determined to be pilot error and somatogravic illusion that caused the pilot to react to a situation that wasn't actually happening. i.e. acceleration of the aircraft was through to be a pitch up event. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Only the most recent 30 comments are shown to reduce server load. Click here to show the remaining comments --------------------------------------------------------------------- Add your comment: (max 1024 characters) Your IP address 68.37.28.109 is being tracked. We reserve the right to remove any comment for any reason. 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