https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/01/gps-accuracy-impacting-devices.html [svg][logo-opt] Login Become a Member * Login * About Me * Press * Contact * Advertise * Privacy Settings Search for: [Enter Keyword Search] [Search] Skip to content Menu * Home * Blog * Product Reviews + Apple + Action Cams + Activity Trackers + Drone Reviews + Elite + Fitbit + Garmin + GoPro + Polar + Power Meters + Samsung + Suunto + Tacx + Trainers + Wahoo Fitness + Weight Scales + Everything Else... * Buyers Guides + 2020-2021 Bike Trainers Guide + 2020 Trainer App Guide + 2020 Watch & Bike Computer Buyers Guide + Power Meter Buyers Guide + DCR Sports Gear I Use List + The Girl's Sports Gear I Use List + Photography Gear I Use + Baby/Child Gear We Use * How-To Guides & Tips * Race Reports * Travel + Paris Swim/Bike/Run Resources + Paris Restaurants (DCR Favs!) * Newsletter New 2021 GPS Accuracy Issue Impacting Some Garmin, Suunto, other GPS Devices January 2, 2021 by DC Rainmaker|Sports Technology News and Reviews| Comments (136) [svg][SatelliteSonyIssue-720x485] Update: As of Sunday morning this should be resolved, however, you'll want to ensure your GPS has fully synced before heading out, and it doesn't hurt to give it a few extra mins outside before pressing start. Just a super quick post to provide a tiny bit of context on an issue some (but not all) folks are seeing where your recorded GPS track is offset by upwards of a hundred meters or more. In general, the pattern of your route is correct, but it may be displaced to one side or the other. However, in many cases by the completion of the workout, it sorts itself out. In other words, it's mostly a one-time issue. The issue largely appears to be impacting companies that leverage the Sony GPS chipset in their devices, which is basically all new Garmin devices in the last few years, most new Suunto devices in the last few years, all Polar devices in the last few years, all COROS devices, the Wahoo RIVAL, and more. More or less everyone except Apple. Very rough list of impacted devices (I'm missing a ton here, these are just the most popular ones) - COROS GPS watches (need to double-check original Pace though) - Garmin Forerunner 45/245/745/945/Fenix 6/MARQ/Vivoactive 3/4/Venu - Garmin Edge 130 Plus 530/830/1030 Plus - Polar Vantage V/M/V2, Grit X, Ignite - Suunto 5 & Suunto 9 - Wahoo RIVAL Again, I'm missing a boatload here, but that's the big-ticket ones off the top of my head. All these companies have switched to the Sony GPS chipset since around 2018, with Polar and Suunto initially jumping onboard, followed quickly thereafter by Garmin, COROS, and more. The Sony GPS chipset is widely used by these companies because of the power savings delivering longer battery life. But - that's all besides the point, and not the cause of the issue. The issue has to do with the ephemeris data file, also called the EPO file (Extended Prediction Orbit) or Connected Predictive Ephemeris (CPE). Or simply the satellite pre-cache file. That's the file that's delivered to your device on a frequent basis (usually every few days). This file is what makes your watch near-instantly find GPS satellites when you go outside. It's basically a cheat-sheet of where the satellites are for the next few days, or up to a week or so. Your watch or bike computer automatically gets this file via Bluetooth Smart from your phone, WiFi, or USB, depending on how you connect your watch. Most companies deliver it anytime your watch syncs and needs a new version. So from your side, you never do anything - it just quietly happens in the background. Right now, the data in this file is wrong, and thus the data your watch uses for those first few minutes is also wrong - leading to the offsets. You can see an example of this below, from one DCR reader: imageimage And another: imageimage As the watch sustains its connection with GPS satellites over the length of the workout, it'll generally re-correct itself as it pulls in updated data from above. Most people are reporting that it'll resolve itself either by the end of the workout, or the next workout. You can see that here from yet another DCR reader: Same here - identical errors on start point on my Fenix 6X Pro and my wife's Forerunner 45S, then they sort themselves out - I walked, she ran, so my route is more accurate as it had more time to get a fix I guess... pic.twitter.com/tZ4ysgYPtW -- ac72 (@ac72) January 2, 2021 To help resolve this, you can simply stick your watch/bike computer outside and let it record an hour workout, then just discard it after that. It'll have received the required satellite information to likely correct itself. But it won't impact everyone. For example, I tried today with two Sony-based watches (Garmin FR745 and FR945) to get it to lay down an incorrect track - and it wouldn't. I suspect this is because in my case the watch had been bumped on a few times while playing with my kids yesterday and today, so my guess is it had already re-downloaded what it needed to be correct out of the gate. I also tried with two non-Sony chipsets (Fenix 5S and Apple Watch SE), and didn't see any problems either. In talking to Garmin today, they're working on a fix for the issue, that they believe will most likely be that they just update the satellite pre-cache data from the server, which in turn your watch will grab just as it always does. But first they (and others) are working to sort out what exactly is wrong with the data that's causing this. In talking to another person in the industry dealing with the issue, they noted that technically 2020 had 53 weeks, and this is the 53rd week. As such, the suspect Sony data file issue might actually be tied to that complexity. See...just when you thought you escaped 2020, it's still there waiting for you at the start of your run. With that - thanks for reading! Share Tweet65 Share 65 Shares Tags: GPS << Wahoo Releases Accuracy Fix for KICKR V5/2020: Test Results Post a Comment Cancel reply Reply link does not work in your browser because JavaScript is disabled. Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked. If you would like a profile picture, simply register at Gravatar, which works here on DCR and across the web. [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Comment [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Subscribe me to the newsletter [ ] I would like to support DCR and enjoy ad-free DC Rainmaker ($20 per year). [ ] Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can click here to Subscribe without commenting Your name: [ ] E-mail: [ ] [Subscribe now] Add a picture [ ] Name *[ ] Email *[ ] Website[http:// ] [Submit Now!] 136 Comments 1. [svg][default] Michael January 2, 2021 at 4:55 pm #1 Hi there, thx for this information. I had it today, that my fenix 6 recorded the track a few hundreds of meters off my real track. Hope this will be fixed soon! br Michael Reply 2. [svg][default] cybirr January 2, 2021 at 4:56 pm #2 (Retired military, used GPS since the early 90's) We had on our devices something called the "almanac" that was received via a very sloooowww transmission rate direct from the GPS satellites. This was the EPO/CPE you are referring to. We'd have to leave the unit out-and-on for an hour or so and it would receive the data (early 90's). This was done every few months as I recall. Modern units, it was never an issue. I thought that process was part of the basic GPS standard. I'm surprised that is not incorporated into all these consumer devices. Reply + [svg][default] Jani Ollikainen January 2, 2021 at 5:34 pm #3 It is, It can get it from the GPS signals, but it still says that it's Expired. I tried deleting CPE.bin, power cycled the watch, put the watch on hike, waited 6mins.. Now I got new CPE.bin file, which was still "Expired", and it's pretty small 2kb, compared to 935's EPO. Which makes me think that it's some bug in the Sony's GPS firmware. Reply + [svg][default] cybirr January 2, 2021 at 6:02 pm #4 Your supposition about the Sony firmware being the culprit seems legit. I noted you mentioned the 6-minute cycle for the modern download so I've no doubt your refreshing the file. Interesting. Reply 3. [svg][default] Jon Thornton January 2, 2021 at 5:00 pm #5 Garmin Edge users can assess GPS accuracy using the widget I wrote a couple of months ago. link to apps.garmin.com Reply + [svg][default] cybirr January 2, 2021 at 5:06 pm #6 Thanks for that link. A couple firmware updates ago Garmin removed the GPS accuracy data field. The signal strength is still there but not the accuracy. I thought it was a nice-to-have data field. Thanks for offering this app. Reply + [svg][default] Jean Francois Donnay January 2, 2021 at 5:33 pm #7 Accuracy is still there, Press the activity circle, then press the screen to see the house and the 2 arrows, then press the right arrow until the page opens from which you will have access to the satellite view Reply 4. [svg][default] bertil January 2, 2021 at 5:04 pm #8 Thanks! Apart from today and yesterday, I had this problem one time before with my FR 245, on 20 September 2020. One of my Strava contacts had the same issue around that time, but I didn't read anything about it anywhere else so may be purely coincidental. Reply 5. [svg][default] Paul January 2, 2021 at 5:06 pm #9 Suunto 9 user here - first occurrence for me was at 2am UTC on 31 /12. I've been leaving my watch on a window sill for 15min before every run the last couple of days. Reply 6. [svg][default] David Harris January 2, 2021 at 5:08 pm #10 Is there anyway to fix the gpx file after the fact? Reply + [svg][f752392] Jon Palmer January 2, 2021 at 5:51 pm #11 I'd love to know if there is a fix for the files too, Strava segments are borked without it. Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 2, 2021 at 5:55 pm #12 Realistically, no. I mean yes, technically one could painstakingly re-construct it manually second by second with low level file editors. But it'd take you a long time and there's a good chance it's be flagged by Strava's file checks anyway. Reply + [svg][default] Jani Ollikainen January 2, 2021 at 6:13 pm #13 There was python script in the Garmin forums: link to forums.garmin.com But realistically I don't know how his case works, mine have been broken in different offsets, over 3 hour run on 1st, my starting and finishing points were the same, but the GPS track shows them to be in totally different offsets. Reply + [svg][default] Bob January 2, 2021 at 6:35 pm #14 I exported to GPX and imported into QGIS to see what was going on before I realised this was a wider issue. I found the start of my run was completely wrong, couldn't even find an offset that matched. The middle of my run was offset to the north west. The last part of my run was offset to the north only. There were also a few bits between the different offsets that were pretty weird, i.e doing little u-turns and loops. So in my case it wasn't really worth the effort to fix especially since the distance seemed about right. If your track just has one offset, it's pretty easy to fix in QGIS and reimport to Garmin. Reply + [svg][f752392] Jon Palmer January 2, 2021 at 11:11 pm #15 That script worked for me. My run was out but the same offset for the entire activity so the script was perfect once I calculated the right offsets. Had to delete the original from Strava to avoid getting flagged as duplicate. Reply + [svg][default] David Harris January 3, 2021 at 10:23 am #16 Ran the script and it worked for me. Reply 7. [svg][default] Tim Grose January 2, 2021 at 5:08 pm #17 Yeah I had an "offset" track for about 15 mins yesterday (1st Jan) on a 945. I stopped for a moment then to check where was heading and maybe that helped correct things and was OK again after and fine today. Reply 8. [svg][default] Keith January 2, 2021 at 5:10 pm #18 Just to feaffirm what you already stated, i had no issue with my 2016 Suunto Spartan Trainer. It does not have the Sony chipset. Reply 9. [svg][default] Chris January 2, 2021 at 5:20 pm #19 Not understanding how calendars work is a pretty weak excuse for a company that's been producing GPS units for 30 years. I'll *maybe* give Suunto, COROS a pass. But that's why I'm supposed to feel good about paying more for a Garmin device, right? That they understand how GPS works? Another example of "Garmin's Biggest Competitor Is Their Own Software Instability". Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 2, 2021 at 5:54 pm #20 Except Garmin had no control over this. This is literally the file from Sony. Just like everyone else (Wahoo/COROS/Polar/ Suunto/etc...), they just pass it along. There are many things one can assign blame to Garmin for, I think this one is probably a stretch. Reply + [svg][default] Chris January 2, 2021 at 6:06 pm #21 Without starting a whole big thing, I'm not so sure Garmin is blameless. Why isn't the FR 745 affected? And more to the point, they made the decision to switch to the Sony chip, so they bear some responsibility for the downstream consequences. I have been really unhappy with the Sony GPS accuracy even before Jan 01. Today I took my old FR 230 for a run and got the cleanest GPS track in years. Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 2, 2021 at 6:11 pm #22 The 745 is affected, as noted, it's not a comprehensive list. Just skipped my mind on the Garmin side, there are boatloads more there that use it (like, dozens). Reply + [svg][default] Chris January 2, 2021 at 6:18 pm #23 FYI: Not a single user report of this problem on the FR 745 Garmin Forum. And a lot of people positively stating no problems with it on the Reddit Garmin forum. Reply + [svg][default] Piotr January 3, 2021 at 5:17 am #24 I think the Garmin should have control of the components it uses though. In the end if the GPS watch does not work well, users do not care whether the problem is with the Garmin or the Sony chipset. They bought a Garmin smartwatch and Garmin should ensure that the components it uses works well Reply 10. [svg][default] Dan F January 2, 2021 at 5:27 pm #25 Hi there, this definitely affected my COROS Pace v1 this morning and to a lesser extent yesterday. No satellite updates in the app so it's likely the bug you noted. Here's hoping tomorrow's run is better. Did result in some Strava CR I definitely didn't earn though! Reply 11. [svg][default] Steve W January 2, 2021 at 5:29 pm #26 Had that issue yesterday (50 minute run) and today (25 minute walk) with my FR945. Reply 12. [svg][default] John B January 2, 2021 at 5:31 pm #27 Finally a post that validates my not upgrading my Edge 520. Reply 13. [svg][de21e24] pavlinux January 2, 2021 at 5:37 pm #28 Fenix 5 Plus use MTK3333 chipset!!! Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 2, 2021 at 5:52 pm #29 Good catch! Reply + [svg][de21e24] pavlinux January 2, 2021 at 6:03 pm #30 I think that Edge 130 (not plus) also Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 2, 2021 at 6:10 pm #31 Ahh, yeah, that's right - that's slightly before the time (2018, not 2019). Inversely, I think the COROS Pace original is actually Sony - just nobody knew it at the time. Gotta dig more. Reply + [svg][8e121d7] tfk, the5krunner January 2, 2021 at 7:59 pm #32 i thought it was the mediatek, that's what my notes say I'll try to dig out the source but iirc it was @LW, I could be wrong Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 3, 2021 at 3:05 am #33 Yeah, I was (unsuccessfully) trying to find info as well. I assumed it was MediaTek, but then as I thought about it more, it would technically make sense to be Sony, since it would have explained their incredible battery life before anyone else. But yeah, gotta do some more poking. Reply 14. [svg][default] Don January 2, 2021 at 5:40 pm #34 FR245 user. I ran about an hour each the 1st and 2nd and the offset never corrected - the start and finish lined up, just a couple blocks SW of my house on the map. New routes in both cases so I can't verify the distance without running them again but it seems like it's probably correct. Reply 15. [svg][default] Jean Francois Donnay January 2, 2021 at 5:50 pm #35 So EPO (=CPE) is also expired in my Edge 1030 plus Reply 16. [svg][de21e24] pavlinux January 2, 2021 at 5:50 pm #36 [svg][3695020-40] > Right now, the data in this file is wrong, There is no data at all, the file is only 2048 bytes! link to pastebin.com Reply + [svg][default] NiceTryHacker January 3, 2021 at 12:15 am #37 I'm not clicking this link, gotta keep my computer clean. (like my race singlet for 2020 ... not used once ) Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 3, 2021 at 3:04 am #38 There's nothing wrong with what Pavlinux posted. It's literally just a screenshot showing the empty EPO file data, and the link is simply the actual text (contents) of the file (since pasting it here would look fugly). It's good to be careful about clicking on links online, but this isn't that. Reply 17. [svg][default] Rich January 2, 2021 at 5:51 pm #39 Thanks Ray - seemed weird my FR945 was off track by a few hundred metres for the first couple of kms on yesterday's run. Now I know why! Reply 18. [svg][default] Wyatt January 2, 2021 at 5:55 pm #40 It only took 21 years for Y2K to hit, and in the form of affecting GPS devices... Reply 19. [svg][a16a38c] Anon January 2, 2021 at 5:58 pm #41 Any insight into if the bad recordings will be corrected as part of the fix or if it will be possible to do so manually? Reply 20. [svg][default] Erez January 2, 2021 at 6:07 pm #42 Maybe I am missing something. The CPE file hints the watch how to acquire the GPS signal but once acquired the data is correct. If I am starting my activity after acquiring signal why do I still see the offset? Reply + [svg][default] Reid January 3, 2021 at 1:09 am #43 The ephemeris (location) data from the satellite will eventually correct itself, as Ray mentions. Until then, the incorrect position of the satellite will impact the determined ground position of the receiver. At a basic level, the receiver receives the GPS signal and compares that time stamp to when the signal was sent. Using the 'known' location of the satellite, a circle can be drawn on a map showing the required distance from the satellite to the receiver to result in whatever time lag there was for the receipt of the signal. Doing this procedure across a minimum (ish) of 3 satellites well get you your lat and long (the circles will only intersect at one point (ish)), 4 will get you altitude ( 4 spheres, etc...). Anyway, it all comes down to GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. Reply 21. [svg][default] Stephen Gunn January 2, 2021 at 6:24 pm #44 Does it make any difference if you use GLONASS or Galileo I wonder? Reply + [svg][default] Riaan January 3, 2021 at 6:42 am #45 No, not at all. I had this very issue described in the article on the 1st 2 and and again today. Today I experimented with GPS only, GPS and Galileo, Gps and Glonass. No difference. All had the offset - except when the next activity was in only a few minutes from the 1st. Reply 22. [svg][default] Felicia January 2, 2021 at 6:29 pm #46 Seeing this issue too with my Venu! The first .25 mile or so of my walks from 1/1/21 and 1/2/21 are starting off in the desert wash near my house, instead of my actual start. It eventually corrects itself and works as expected for the rest of the activity. And I thought it was just me having a problem! Thanks again, Ray, for providing us with valuable and timely information Reply 23. [svg][default] Ray Venables January 2, 2021 at 6:31 pm #47 Interesting explanation! My question is this: why is my GPS data offset in Zwift's Watopia? I mean, it's a virtual world, so why doesn't my route match up with the fictional island? Reply 24. [svg][179b0d4] S1 January 2, 2021 at 6:34 pm #48 Two runs today and yesterday, start point out by at least 100 metres. Is this meant to self correct? Reply 25. [svg][default] PAUL ROSAMOND January 2, 2021 at 6:39 pm #49 Thanks for the info Day Reply 26. [svg][default] Steven January 2, 2021 at 6:44 pm #50 Handily I've been running with both my 245 and Coros Pace 2 and whilst my 245 is clearly affected my pace 2 actually seemed fine with it's GPS track. So maybe an older version of the Sony GPS chipset? I also used my 645 today as well for the LTHR test and that wasn't affected as expected but it just reminded me how bad it was at times though. Reply 27. [svg][default] Steve January 2, 2021 at 6:48 pm #51 Being 64, I actually appreciated the error as I recorded my fastest mile in years (07:15). So the gps issue was also affecting speed. For tomorrow's run, I'll change my foot pod and see what happens! Reply 28. [svg][default] Virginia January 2, 2021 at 6:59 pm #52 Glad to know what was going on! 1st run of the year has a pretty funky GPS track, but the walk back was fine. Glad to see today's run line up as expected (Fenix 6). Reply + [svg][default] Virginia January 3, 2021 at 4:39 pm #53 [svg][3695590-40] Ha got impatient today when it was slow to pickup satellites. Eventually it found me...hopefully it will get back to being able to pickup satellites within a minute or two soon. Reply 29. [svg][default] PaulaPP January 2, 2021 at 7:35 pm #54 Why do you say this is a "1 time issue"? It only happens once, and then never again? Reply 30. [svg][default] Brian January 2, 2021 at 7:47 pm #55 Thank you for this! I've been wondering what the heck was going on. I have a Forerunner 945, and my entire workout yesterday (6 miles) was offset. Today I ran 13 miles, and it fixed itself at about mile 3. Hopefully that's the end of it. Reply 31. [svg][default] Doug January 2, 2021 at 8:31 pm #56 945 golf user here...GPS has been off ~12 yards for 3-4 months... finally compensated by using back of green yardage for mid-green yardage. Running data seems fine. Any idea when the solution will be done? Thanks! Reply 32. [svg][default] TheStansMonster January 2, 2021 at 8:58 pm #57 Holy crap - this literally happened to me just a few hours ago on a hike with my brand new Fenix 6. I was worried it was a sign of lemon device, but hoped it was just because the trailhead is up a shallow canyon. I even switched from GLONASS to Galileo in the middle. Reply 33. [svg][default] Perry January 2, 2021 at 9:00 pm #58 Is there a fix for Strava segment attempts? I ran hard, and it didn't count. Reply + [svg][default] AlexS January 2, 2021 at 10:23 pm #59 Nope, sorry. He said it'll prob just get flagged anyway. Guess you're just gonna have to run it again! Reply 34. [svg][default] Colin Ingram January 2, 2021 at 9:03 pm #60 Garmin car sat nav have the same issue, updated a week ago, very inaccurate now, can't follow a road, has me going off-road. Reply 35. [svg][default] Tyson January 2, 2021 at 9:11 pm #61 Can confirm I had this exact issue with my Venu today. Reply 36. [svg][555bbce] winfij January 2, 2021 at 9:26 pm #62 During a Garmin Connect sync with my F6Pro a short while ago I noticed it said it was doing a "software download" (or similar wording) and checking some time afterwards the CPE file was shown as current, whereas earlier it was showing as Expired. The watch and GPS fw are still showing the same versions as the last release (13.10 + 4.80) so I'm not sure quite what the update contained. Did anyone else get an update - are you still seeing the CPE as Expired? Reply + [svg][default] Mike January 3, 2021 at 1:16 am #63 My CPE is current now. It was expired earlier. How to check the EPO status? Reply 37. [svg][9641311] James January 2, 2021 at 9:28 pm #64 Garmin recently posted on their FAQ that the issue was resolved and watched could be synced with Express, Wi-Fi, or could do a sync process on the phone to resolve. Reply 38. [svg][default] AdamS January 2, 2021 at 9:45 pm #65 [svg][3695139-40] Thanks for the update. I don't think your recommended fix will work though. I've a Garmin 245music and it had this offset issue on 2 runs so far. One on Jan 1 (AEST) and the other on Jan 3. Reply + [svg][default] AdamS January 2, 2021 at 10:20 pm #66 Actually, sorry, I just re-checked the 2nd run and it looks like the last few minutes of it may have been accurate so the problem might now be resolved. They were both short runs - 40mins and 25mins respectively so may have needed that long to update. Reply 39. [svg][default] Whitney January 2, 2021 at 10:36 pm #67 I've had this happen today and yesterday on my Garmin Vivoactive 4. Reply 40. [svg][default] giorgitd January 2, 2021 at 10:43 pm #68 Rode inside today, so no GPS. But I did a 45 min walk with the pup yesterday (1 Jan 21) with an Amazfit Bip S. Track was perfect. Anyone know what chipset is in that device? Reply + [svg][default] giorgitd January 2, 2021 at 10:47 pm #69 Responding to my own post... Google suggests that the Bip S has a 28 nm Sony GPS chipset with Glonass. Interesting... Reply 41. [svg][default] Lu Nickell January 2, 2021 at 11:33 pm #70 Interesting. My Garmin sometimes tracks my runs correctly but about half the time, it will show the first half of my run only which then looks like a ran one way and never went home. Sounds like a different problem. Reply 42. [svg][default] Kris January 3, 2021 at 12:27 am #71 Guess, I'm glad I never got rid of my Fenix 3.. This sounds really irritating Reply 43. [svg][d457676] Val January 3, 2021 at 12:52 am #72 I had that happen today for the first time. Frustrating. The picture of my run hasn't fixed itself yet. I'll try putting my watch outside. Reply + [svg][55926d1] DC Rainmaker January 3, 2021 at 3:13 am #73 Yeah, I wouldn't expect an existing run to fix itself - just future runs. Reply 44. [svg][default] Tommy January 3, 2021 at 12:55 am #74 My Vivoactive 4 had the same problem yesterday. My wife's Galaxy watch was accurate. I think that Garmin is responsible for the issue. They even don't notify customers about it. My next watch probably won't be Garmin! Reply 45. [svg][default] Pat Farrell January 3, 2021 at 1:15 am #75 I've seen other GPS problems with two CAT S42 smartphones. The GPS signals are correct and recorded sometimes, but regularly when I am out in the boondocks, the GPS does not seem to capture any signals. I tried a second unit, and it had the same problem. I don't know what GPS chipset they use, but its clearly a common issue. Reply 46. [svg][default] 245 garmin January 3, 2021 at 1:35 am #76 After using my forerunner 220 for 5 years and having no problems was super excited to receive the 245 for Christmas. My first couple of runs was great, but since we hit 2021 it's totally off the mark when I check my run in the Garmin app. I ran 10k and it has me running through houses. I went for a beach walk this morning 8k and it shows I'm walking in the sea. Really disappointed and hoping this will be fixed asap Reply 47. [svg][default] Kaz January 3, 2021 at 2:55 am #77 I do not think it is only watches or CPE. My Skydio 2 drone had suspiciously low GPS coverage last week - during a 25 min flight above treetops I only had "2 bars" GPS coverage. That has never happened before. I have never had less than 4 bars in "open air" before. (UK South) It might be combination of CPE + Cloud Cover + Very low temperatures. Very Low temperature + Cloud cover = ice in clouds that can deflect GPS signals like glass buildings do. Then you might get offsets - just like when passing glass buildings. Reply 48. [svg][default] Joe January 3, 2021 at 2:55 am #78 [svg][3695258-40] Hi. My file shows that it is not a constant offset, but makeing lovely patterns. The Trak I ran is up right (NE) Reply + [svg][default] Paul January 3, 2021 at 3:37 am #79 CPE has updated on my FR245 over night. It now states current so hopefully todays run will be more realistic than the previous 2 that had me making like superman and going over buildings and water Reply 49. [svg][default] Simon Kellett January 3, 2021 at 3:25 am #80 I work in the software /space industry - my first guess would be that it's caused by new software that doesn't allow for last year being a leap year - in space we usually use Day-of-year for recording the date, so 2020 was the first time this hit 366 for 4 years. Reply 50. [svg][default] Fabio January 3, 2021 at 3:26 am #81 [svg][3695273-40] unfortunatelly i think only one of my two issues were caused by this 'bug': i started at a very slow pace and my fenix6 said: 4'28/km !!! absolutly not my warmup pace...i stoped , deleted that first km and restarted. ok now i know it could be due to this 'bug'. in the midlle of my run (after about 20') my gps decided to have the following one behaviour: I'm not so happy with my fenix6 compared to my old 920... Reply + [svg][default] maxfrance January 3, 2021 at 5:27 pm #82 Mine just did the exact opposite, giving me a 9'+/km. my first km. (not that slow at all ..), and marking a completely out of the world track on the map as a result. I wasn't aware of this bug, so I'm pretty relieved to learn about the cause; today I did a walk and soon after a run workout to check if this was fixed. Anyway, my Fenix took several minutes to fix the GPS signal where usually it gets full coverage in just seconds. Reply 51. [svg][f69e0a8] Eduardo January 3, 2021 at 3:29 am #83 Sony have fixed the issue and everything is back to normal again. Sorry guys/gals, you lost the only reason for not working out today. Because "winter" is not a reason good enough! Reply + [svg][default] Jani Ollikainen January 3, 2021 at 5:38 am #84 I would argue/guess that Sony hasn't fixed anything but the week number changed to 1/2021 on week starting from Sundays and that fixed the problem itself. My guess is improper handling of week 53's in start of the year, where the week number is 53, but the year is changed to next one (2021) and the week numbers year is still the previous year (2020). But why they need to calculate the week numbers and fail this is beyond me, GPS should not need week numbers. Reply + [svg][default] MJ January 3, 2021 at 7:05 am #85 Could this be an issue caused by the different calendar week numbering in the US and Europe? The US calendar week is 01/2021 while Europe uses week 53/ 2020, as there is one week offset in 2021 (US has Jan 1st in week one, Europe counts from the first week with at least four days). Wouldn't be the first time that use of different standards causes problems... Reply + [svg][default] Jani Ollikainen January 3, 2021 at 9:02 am #86 I thought the US week was 53 on Friday and Saturday, when the errors occured and today changed to 1 which fixed it. But yes, I think it's something they do with the CPE and calculating weeks that was the error. GPS has just rolling week number but some calendar error there has to be this to solve itself in two days. Unix's date has 3 different week numbers, here's how they changed in these days: $ date -date="@1609647687'' +"%c - %U vs. %W vs. %V/%G" Sun 03 Jan 2021 06:21:27 EET - 01 vs. 00 vs. 53/2020 $ date -date="@1609607687'' +"%c - %U vs. %W vs. %V/%G" Sat 02 Jan 2021 19:14:47 EET - 00 vs. 00 vs. 53/2020 $ date -date="@1609507687'' +"%c - %U vs. %W vs. %V/%G" Fri 01 Jan 2021 15:28:07 EET - 00 vs. 00 vs. 53/2020 $ date -date="@1609407687'' +"%c - %U vs. %W vs. %V/%G" Thu 31 Dec 2020 11:41:27 EET - 52 vs. 52 vs. 53/2020 On which we notice that: %U and %W was 00 on those two days. Here's what those percentage's are: %G year of ISO week number (see %V); normally useful only with %V %U week number of year, with Sunday as first day of week (00..53) %V ISO week number, with Monday as first day of week (01..53) %W week number of year, with Monday as first day of week (00..53) And none of those correspond then the US week numbers if they are 1st of January is week one. And apparently there are multiple ways people use weeks in US, depending on broadcast, accounting, etc, why would you use standard weeks if you can always made up your own. link to en.wikipedia.org But yes, I think that in those two first days of the year it miscalculated the week/date/time based on it and it caused problems and there is no fix yet, it just started working again. Reply 52. [svg][default] Steve January 3, 2021 at 3:30 am #87 I don't know whether it's interesting or not, but I didn't have the problem with my Garmin devices (945 and 820) but my wife did using her iPhone XS with Apple Car Play when she drove to her friends house, kept showing her off the road! Reply 53. [svg][default] Roger January 3, 2021 at 3:31 am #88 I am getting location issues with my Fenix 6 Pro S. At the start of an outdoor activity, the position is recorded a couple of hundred metres to the West of the actual and then the track aligns, but not super accurate after about 10 minutes. This has happened consistently for the past few days. However, for the past few weeks, since the latest firmware and sensor upgrade, the battery has drained incredibly fast (around 25% per hour) only during activities, both outside, with GPS and inside, without. I have carried out the all the recommended fixes, including deleting the XML file, soft, hard and factory resets, trying with and without Wifi and BT. All to no effect. It appears that there is a fault in the latest update, maybe leading to a very high load on the CPU (just guessing here) which impacts on the ability of the watch to calculate the initial fix and maintain an accurate track? Reply 54. [svg][default] Dominik January 3, 2021 at 3:44 am #89 [svg][3695282-40] It's not a one time problem. After a 21k yesterday, a hike today, syncs with GE and GC as well as a long enough soake at the window - still being shifted about 200 meters from my actual position. CPE still not updated too. Reply 55. [svg][dd472f1] Schorsch January 3, 2021 at 3:48 am #90 Hey there, thanks for the quick post. I used the Wahoo on the 2th of January and after a restart the watch worked perfekt for the first time. Instead I was running with the Rival (with GPS) at the 29th of December and received no Map overview afterwards. [?] However happy new year. Reply 56. [svg][default] Philipp January 3, 2021 at 3:52 am #91 Went for a run this morning. Neither pace, distance or even the route where close to accurate. The recorded route was a few kilometers west from me through the woods. And doesn't even match the loop I've run. (link to strava.com) At one point I was flat out and the lap alert was telling me 5:20m/k pace, when in fact I must've been sub-4.. So frustrating. Reply 57. [svg][default] Gennaro January 3, 2021 at 3:56 am #92 When you deal with EPO sooner or later problems are bound to show up Reply 58. [svg][5348f25] Dmitry Pupkov January 3, 2021 at 4:09 am #93 [svg][3695291-40] We had similar issue in July. Here is my screenshot; start and stop have been at the same point. Also, watch decided I've started my run at 3'000m altitude /facepalm. And report from another user on the forum from the same specific day/time - link to forums.garmin.com Reply 59. [svg][default] George Fertakis January 3, 2021 at 4:16 am #94 I ran on New Years day using my Garmin Fenix 6 with a friend using a Fenix 5. On the first three miles -although we were running together- the Fenix 6 was indicating a pace per kilometer 10'' slower. Could this be due to the bug mentioned here? Reply 60. [svg][de21e24] pavlinux January 3, 2021 at 4:28 am #95 [svg][3695299-40] In the morning at 4:55 GMT it was corrected. Reply 61. [svg][default] Sean Kavanagh January 3, 2021 at 5:15 am #96 I was a bit worried having just fit a Fenix 6 Pro for Christmas and found the GPS worse than any other Garmin I've had Reply 62. [svg][default] Marco Pereira January 3, 2021 at 5:26 am #97 Great as always. Thank you very much Reply 63. [svg][7514134] RunnerMate January 3, 2021 at 5:38 am #98 I think the VA3 was way before the Sony era (that started in 2019 with FR*45 and Marq). I could be wrong. (Instinct Solar also put everything to west a bit yesterday.) Reply 64. [svg][default] Richard Cook January 3, 2021 at 6:34 am #99 Happened to my dismay this morning as Strava didn't as the activity to my club leaderboard for the week Reply 65. [svg][default] Steve January 3, 2021 at 6:36 am #100 Something more weird is going on. My circa 2016 Garmin Fenix 3 has never missed a beat. On jan 2,2021 it took 20 minutes to get a GPS fix during a run. Usually only a few seconds. I am NOT seeing an offset though. Then when I started reading about problems with newer units I checked my system-about and my EPO is expired. Used watch on 2 activities today jan 3rd and both times still taking 10+ minutes to get a fix. I'm sure My watch doesn't have a new Sony chipset! So why is my EPO expired and why hasn't it been corrected even though I just synched my latest activity with Garmin connect- EPO still expired??? Is this problem more widespread? Reply 66. [svg][default] Neill Hadlow January 3, 2021 at 6:41 am #101 Thanks for this article! My Fenix 6 was working great up until 31st December and since then all the GPS tracks have been terrible. Reply 67. [svg][default] Nacho January 3, 2021 at 6:46 am #102 [svg][3695358-40] It definitively affected my FR945 Reply + [svg][default] Zuz January 3, 2021 at 7:08 am #103 [svg][3695366-40] Check this, I was running opposite direction, than made three circles. I have no idea what pace it was. I got new PB after this 1km 2:38 min/km Reply 68. [svg][default] Angela Tipping January 3, 2021 at 6:47 am #104 Hi there. Had exactly this on New Years Day where the track loat me for the first 15 mins and couldn't work out what I'd done. Having just invested in a Garmin 6s I was a bit disappointed to say the least but this does explain the issue. I've just run a blank run to see if it can update now and fingers crossed for my run later. Excellent update! Thank you. Reply 69. [svg][eacf871] Jay January 3, 2021 at 7:13 am #105 Got a new Garmin 830 for Christmas. Couple of rides in and no issues. Replaced my 810. Reply 70. [svg][default] Alex K January 3, 2021 at 7:15 am #106 So 15 minutes into my run on Saturday, I looked at my Garmin 745 and the distance showed as ZERO. All other parameters like time and heart rate etc were fine. When I started the run I heard the "GPS connected" beep. Had to turn my watch off, then on again. Reply 71. [svg][default] Matt Dawber January 3, 2021 at 7:27 am #107 I really should have checked here before fixing this issue on my Forerunner 945 last night As my wife had no problem with her run, also on a 945, at the same time as mine I assumed this was specific to my watch. A couple of observations: My run was over an hour and the problem did not resolve. Synching over garmin express and updating all the maps didn't fix it either. However a factory reset did fix it. It sounds like just waking up this morning may also have fixed it, but in case anyone still has a problem, that's how I resolved it. Thanks as always for the helpful advice Ray! Next time I will think to look here first Reply 72. [svg][2d6b02c] Travis Melville January 3, 2021 at 8:00 am #108 If it was a UK only issue, I'd say it's because we've now left Europe.... Reply + [svg][default] kaz January 3, 2021 at 9:12 am #109 haha so we are drifting further away? I'll get the oars out and increase the spread then. Reply 73. [svg][default] Reinhard January 3, 2021 at 8:32 am #110 With my 245M it's not that simple- I had an activity (Jan 2nd 2021) with a 40min "pause" (at a calisthenics parc). First part of track was shifted and deformed, second was ok. So far, so good. But 3 hours later I made a run on nearly the same track, and the new track was offset about 200m. So the device must have forgotten its position or satellite data (or there were other satellites around). Reply 74. [svg][default] Dwight Larson January 3, 2021 at 8:35 am #111 I just checked my Vivoactive 4 at 07:30 GMT-6, and the CPE info is "current" once again. I guess maybe we are into the 1st real week of 2021? Reply 75. [svg][8dbaa6b] Jason January 3, 2021 at 9:06 am #112 Wondered what went wrong with the first 2km of my run this morning. Thanks for the update Ray! Reply 76. [svg][1a11d8b] Knoll Ingo January 3, 2021 at 9:42 am #113 Run with my wife today sunday 3. and i still have the issue and had it already the last run on my 945. My wife's 745 runs just fine! Reply 77. [svg][ce21818] Rui Pereira January 3, 2021 at 10:03 am #114 Had the problem yesterday (Fenix 6). Checked this morning and CPE was updated, today's run went without problems. Reply 78. [svg][default] Andrew Cornish January 3, 2021 at 10:32 am #115 [svg][3695446-40] Strava has doubled my data from my Garmin 245 Forerunner - I ran 17.45k in 1:30:00 as a Sunday Slow Run but according to Strava my route was completely different and my average pace was 2.32/k!!! I wish that were true Reply 79. [svg][default] Rob January 3, 2021 at 10:54 am #116 I did a quick run an hour ago and still I have the same problems with my FR245. I have the GOS problem since December 15. I emailed Garmin that day about the problem. Today I made a 6km run with 2000 meters climbing (and that is hard to do in the Netherlands). I scored some badges today that I didn't think I could ever score! Reply 80. [svg][default] Caroline LG January 3, 2021 at 10:54 am #117 Thanks for this. I'm in France. My vivoactive 4s invented a whole new course for me today, up to 5km from where I actually was (I always do the same route...). It also said I had gone up more than 5000m! Then I tested it again this afternoon going to buy some stuff - my circular route was down as a literal straight line from my house to somewhere miles away. I hope this is fixed soon... Reply + [svg][default] Caroline LG January 3, 2021 at 10:57 am #118 PS my CPE says "current"... Reply 81. [svg][default] Peter Fitzpatrick January 3, 2021 at 11:11 am #119 Well I wish I read this before my run today! It would have saved me deleting and declining my new records. Although then I wouldn't have smashed my 1k, 1 mile, 5k and 10k records. Fenix 6 pro recorded a 54 sec 1 km and 18 mins for 10km. If only! Reply 82. [svg][default] Jackhammer January 3, 2021 at 11:40 am #120 Will this issue affect the Garmin Tatix Charlie. I haven't seen that model of Garmin mentioned and I have one being delivered tomorrow. Not looking forward to having issues right out the gate. Reply 83. [svg][default] HJ January 3, 2021 at 11:46 am #121 [svg][3695469-40] I was surpised to see that I made dramatic PB this morning, until I noticed that my GPS track was way off the route. Reply 84. [svg][default] SoCorsu January 3, 2021 at 11:47 am #122 Fix !!! For me tested with long GPS fixing Affecting Garmin, Polar & Suunto Watches (Sony GPS) link to mightygadget.co.uk [Update 3rd of January 2021] Fix rolled out for Garmin It now looks like Garmin have pushed the CPE file update to their users, if you have phone syncing on, this should update automatically. You can also manually update via Garmin Connect If you check System > About and CPE and it shows expired, the update has not occurred. If you can't get the update for whatever reason, you can still leave the watch for 5 minutes or so tracking an activity to try and let it update it self. The update will have been provided by Sony, so other brands affected by this problem will likely be updating currently, or soon. [Update] Official Garmin response Please be aware that we are aware of the serious GPS issue that 2021 has brought upon the Fenix 6 series watches and we are investigating reports. The issue seems to be impacting not only Garmin but some of our competitors too. On your watch, if you go to System > About and CPE shows Expired, please give 5 full minutes outdoors with no movement to see if your CPE file will update for you to CURRENT. Even if this doesn't fix the CPE you should allow the watch to GPS soak to receive a full satellite fix. This means to wait for an additional 2-5 minutes after the device reads GPS ready. Reply 85. [svg][default] Emma January 3, 2021 at 12:00 pm #123 [svg][3695478-40] I was running in the sea this morning??? Reply + [svg][5348f25] Dmitry Pupkov January 3, 2021 at 2:22 pm #124 Trying to get back to the mainland Europe I guess? Reply 86. [svg][default] Seth Kay January 3, 2021 at 12:19 pm #125 You don't mention Fitbit. Is there a Sony chip set that has the same problem? Reply 87. [svg][default] Dave Bennett January 3, 2021 at 12:56 pm #126 Had a bad track Friday (off by, 200-330m) then a good track this morning. and then another bad track tonight (Started right, ended up about 5k off) . Fenix 6 base. My wife had a bad track Friday (started wrong went right) and today about 15k off, didn't even show the same track offset, just weird. 245 Not as simple as update from phone plus it all right. CPE showing correct today. Reply 88. [svg][4d015d6] Matt T LeGrand January 3, 2021 at 1:22 pm #127 Ok, I've been experiencing issues with my EPO here at the end of 2020 as well. And it doesn't help that the out of competition drug testing has started back up again. Why can't they just let guys like me, Charles Q. Heater, cheat at Zwift like the good lord intended. Reply 89. [svg][default] George Soto January 3, 2021 at 2:13 pm #128 I had an issue with my new Garmin 945, not only was the map/loc way off, but my paces were off too. Is anyone else experiencing this as well? Reply 90. [svg][default] mtn.run January 3, 2021 at 2:53 pm #129 Yup, my partner and I both have Suunto 9s and had some small but noticeable discrepancies in distance. What is odd is mine did it the other day and hers just did it today. Reply 91. [svg][default] Eric January 3, 2021 at 2:59 pm #130 I tried the one hour fix with my Garmin 945, didn't work. Had two runs that put me miles away. I deleted settings and data, restarted, and after a long reboot and sync all is back to normal. Reply 92. [svg][default] Tasha January 3, 2021 at 3:05 pm #131 I'm glad I found this but has anyone else has more severe variances?? The run I just finished is showing as 50km away and not even close to the same track/run pattern! Used my Garmin forerunner 945 Reply 93. [svg][default] Patrick January 3, 2021 at 3:44 pm #132 The problem is still there. The activities have points that are sometimes several miles away from the actual location. Reply 94. [svg][default] Craig January 3, 2021 at 4:05 pm #133 [svg][3695574-40] I knew DCR would be all over this. Thanks! Reply 95. [svg][default] Steve January 3, 2021 at 4:42 pm #134 UPDATE: EPO is now current after synching with Garmin Connect when I woke up Jan 4th 2021 Australia Time (didn't do any activity). Fenix 3 has an MTK GPS chipset, so the EPO expired error definitely not related only to Sony chipsets. Reply 96. [svg][default] Robert1955 January 3, 2021 at 5:17 pm #135 Thanks for sharing. Now I understand why my Polar M on both Jan 2 and 3 started with my house under water. Let's see what happens tomorrow Reply 97. [svg][default] Tim Chalmers January 3, 2021 at 6:01 pm #136 [svg][3695619-40] In Sydney Australia this morning with Garmin Fenix 6 Sapphire. Mine said it was updated. Just did a 15km trail run and the GPS was at least 10km away showing me running in a built up area. Glad I use a Stryd Footpod so at least the distance and pace is correct. Reply * TwitterFacebookStravaYouTubeInstagramRSS * * I'm DC RAINMAKER... about-rayabout-ray I swim, bike and run. Then, I come here and write about my adventures. It's as simple as that. Most of the time. If you're new around these parts, here's the long version of my story. * Wanna support DCR?Wanna support DCR? You'll support the site, and get ad-free DCR! Plus, you'll be more awesome. Click above for all the details. Oh, and you can sign-up for the newsletter here! * Here's how to save! Wanna save some cash and support the site? Use Backcountry.com or Competitive Cyclist with either the coupon code DCRAINMAKER for first time users saving 15% on applicable products. [svg][Lockup-Secondary-Midnight] And both Backcountry & Competitive Cyclist offer free 2-day shipping! 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