Mrs. Powell. I drove very fast.

Mr. Griffin. About how long did it take you? Where did you get on the Stemmons Expressway?

Mrs. Powell. Well, I came through town.

Mr. Griffin. Did you get on there the same way the President had gone?

Mrs. Powell. Yes; I sure did, because Pete had never been here before. It was his first time. Just when he got the plane to go to Mexico. And I was showing him. We drove by the Depository down there.

Mr. Griffin. About how long would it have taken you to drive out there?

Mrs. Powell. Well, I don’t recall that it took any longer than it normally would to drive out there. Of course, I slowed down through town. We came down and I slowed down and we looked up at the window. Of course, there was a lot of people, but they were keeping traffic moving, and we went exactly the same route, because I pointed out the building where he was supposed to make his speech. Then I got off, and I wasn’t too sure where the hospital was, to tell the truth. I got off and I found it all right, and there was just a lot of traffic around there.

Mr. Griffin. Did you have any trouble parking when you got to the hospital?

Mrs. Powell. Sure. People were parking everywhere.

Mr. Griffin. You think you got out there after you learned the President was dead?

Mrs. Powell. They hadn’t announced it to the people there, I don’t think. I know that I knew that the President was dead. The people standing around the hospital did not know it as of yet.

Mr. Griffin. Were you standing around the main entrance or the emergency entrance?

Mrs. Powell. I was around at the main entrance, I guess. The main entrance faces this way? Like this is the hospital, and this is Harry Hines, and this is the main entrance?

Mr. Griffin. Let me ask you to draw a diagram. Put Harry Hines Boulevard and the Parkland Hospital, and then draw it in such a way that we can tell.

Mrs. Powell. I will make the hospital here, and this is Harry Hines here. I parked down here somewhere, and all the TV cameras—there was a big truck, was like here with the cameras, and I stood just right here.

Mr. Griffin. Put a “P” where you were.

Mrs. Powell. I stood right here, and there was an entranceway here, and, of course, there was a curb right here.

Mr. Griffin. Did you see President Johnson come out of the hospital?

Mrs. Powell. No; I didn’t. I don’t think he was seen, was he? Did they put him in a car with the curtains drawn? I know they kind of worried about him.

Mr. Griffin. Was the entrance that you were standing by, the entrance that President Kennedy’s body was taken into?

Mrs. Powell. No. See, I wasn’t there when they took him in or anything, but I was standing here on this side. Now, this would be Harry Hines running north and south; right?

Mr. Griffin. Yes.

Mrs. Powell. I was standing on the south side of the building, and I think the emergency is around here. There wasn’t any way I could, get close to the emergency, because it was just full of cars and people, so I came down here to Hines and pulled up over a curb and got upon the grass and parked down here. They brought the President from somewhere around here, because this is a curb and a street all through here like the front of this.

Mr. Griffin. I am going to have to stop you a minute, Nancy, because I want to make what you have been saying clear to the people that read the record.

Mrs. Powell. Okay.

Mr. Griffin. Let me ask you at this point where you think the entrance was that you were looking at, the entrance that you were near?

Mrs. Powell. Right here.

Mr. Griffin. That is on the south side of the building?

Mrs. Powell. Yes, it is on the south side.

Mr. Griffin. Also, you have drawn a line of some sort out of the north side of the building?

Mrs. Powell. Well, you told me to show you where I thought they brought him out.

Mr. Griffin. That is right. Now, would you make an arrow on that and then along the arrow that you have drawn, indicate the place from which you think President Kennedy’s body was taken? Would you write something to the effect, “Place from which President Kennedy’s body was taken”?

Mrs. Powell. But I didn’t see it.

Mr. Griffin. But you have some idea. I am trying to get some idea in case you are not clear really on what entrance this is.

Mrs. Powell. I am clear on the entrance. I know it is the entrance on the south side, and I know that is where a lot of reporters and people were going in there.

Mr. Griffin. I see. While you were standing there, at any time did you see Jack Ruby around?

Mrs. Powell. No. Do you want me to do this now? This is a curb.

Mr. Griffin. All right. I think it is good enough to leave it the way it is, and I won’t ask you to mark President Kennedy’s route.

Mrs. Powell. I know where he came from, and it apparently must have been from here.

Mr. Griffin. The north side is what you are pointing to?

Mrs. Powell. I was standing here, and when they came out, they had him in a hearse.

Mr. Griffin. You saw the hearse come by?

Mrs. Powell. Yes. It came from around the end of the building like this, and they came down this way through here and down Harry Hines.

Mr. Griffin. Mark some arrows on that line so that we know it is the route of the President.

Mrs. Powell. This is Harry Hines, and they went down this way.

Mr. Griffin. Let me mark it for you so I will show you what I want. I am putting arrows along the route to indicate where it was, and I am going to mark this, “Route of President Kennedy’s hearse.”

I am going to mark this piece of paper that we have been working with here as “Nancy Powell Deposition, July 25, 1964, Exhibit No. 1.”

How long did you remain out at Parkland Hospital?

Mrs. Powell. Till they brought his body by.

Mr. Griffin. Then what did you do?

Mrs. Powell. What I thought was his body. I mean, I didn’t see in there, but I know it was a black hearse and the curtains were drawn, and they had a motorcade, so I know it must have been him.

Mr. Griffin. Then what did you do?

Mrs. Powell. Then I left.

Mr. Griffin. Where did you go?

Mrs. Powell. I went back to Fort Worth, because my grandmother was very, very fond of the President, and she was pretty old, and I knew she would be very upset.

Mr. Griffin. Did you take your friend back with you?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. What was his name?

Mrs. Powell. Pete.

Mr. Griffin. What was his last name?

Mrs. Powell. If you hadn’t asked me, I could have of told you. Devoire, D-e-v-o-i-r-e [spelling].

Mr. Griffin. You said he was from Tulsa?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. What does he do for a living?

Mrs. Powell. He is a bartender.

Mr. Griffin. What club was he working in?

Mrs. Powell. Well, he was working in Enid whenever he went to Mexico, and I don’t know the name of it.

Mr. Griffin. Now, you are working up in Oklahoma?

Mrs. Powell. In Oklahoma City.

Mr. Griffin. Were your friends back at your grandmother’s house when you got back there?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. What did you do when you got back to your grandmother’s house?

Mrs. Powell. My grandmother was cooking dinner, and she was really very shaken up about it. She was in tears practically, so I went in and we sat down and we ate.

We got up, and this girl did the dishes, and, of course, we discussed it at great length, and we all watched TV, I would say, until we got sick, just listening to it any more. I thought I was going crazy, but we sat up and watched TV until late that night. Then we went to bed, and the next day we watched TV again. They left the next day in the afternoon. They went on. But they stayed overnight.

Mr. Griffin. What did you do after they left?

Mrs. Powell. I didn’t do anything. Then I just did normal things that I do when I am at home.

Mr. Griffin. Didn’t you go into Dallas Saturday night?

Mrs. Powell. Oh, yes, I did. Why did I come over here that night? I had some reason for coming over, and I don’t know what it was. I forget what it was now.

I had to see Pappy, this agent here. I was going out of town. I know what it was, I was leaving on Monday to go to Oklahoma City to work, and I needed some money to go up there on, so I had to come over and got money from Pappy to go, and I called Little Lynn.

She used to ride with me until I quit, and I called her and told her that I was coming over here, and if she wanted to ride, she could, because she had to ride the bus. And she said she would like to ride, so I went by and picked her up.

Mr. Griffin. Did you pick up her husband also?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Anybody else?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. What time did you pick her up?

Mrs. Powell. She was supposed to be at work at 9 I think, so I must have picked her up around 8, between 8:10 or 8:30.

Mr. Griffin. Then what did you do?

Mrs. Powell. We came over and went to the Colony Club, and Pappy wasn’t there, so I went over to the—no, first of all, we went to the Carousel. When we got there, it was closed, and the other clubs were open.

This is unusual, because Jack didn’t believe in closing. So, then we went over to the Colony Club, and Pappy wasn’t there, so Lynn said she was going to call Jack. She needed some money, and he didn’t tell her that he was going to be closed.

But he said that he told Andy that he was going to be closed, and Andy was supposed to call her, and he couldn’t find her, or something; I don’t know.

She called Jack.

Mr. Griffin. Had she gone to work the night before?

Mrs. Powell. No. They were notified the night before that they weren’t going to work, but the next night for some reason they weren’t notified. I don’t really know why. But she wasn’t.

I think someone else showed up that night too. They didn’t know they weren’t supposed to work. I don’t know who it was.

Mr. Griffin. Another one of the dancers?

Mrs. Powell. Another girl, I think.

Mr. Griffin. Who else was working there?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. He had some girls at one time that I didn’t know.

Mr. Griffin. Was Kathy Kay working there at that time?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Did she show up?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. I just saw this one girl, and she was a new girl, and I think he just got her off the street somewhere just to fill in in the show.

Mr. Griffin. How about Joy Dale? Do you remember Joy Dale?

Mrs. Powell. Yes, I remember Joy Dale.

Mr. Griffin. Was she the one that showed up?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. You don’t think much of Joy Dale, I take it, from your response?

Mrs. Powell. No, because I read the article she wrote to a magazine, and it was a bunch of lies, and I don’t like people that lie.

Mr. Griffin. She wrote an article about Jack Ruby that wasn’t true?

Mrs. Powell. If they can’t tell the truth, they don’t need to say anything at all, and she broke her neck to make all these wild statements.

Mr. Griffin. Did she use her own proper name in that magazine article?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. It was Joy Dale, is what it said.

Mr. Griffin. Is that the name that was used, Joy Dale, in the magazine article?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Do you remember what magazine it was in?

Mrs. Powell. In a little one. It made me sick. I didn’t even buy it. It had a picture of her and pictures of Lynn in there. It was a small type magazine.

Mr. Griffin. You all went from the Carousel Club to the Colony?

Mrs. Powell. Yes. I was looking for Pappy to get some money. We were going immediately back to Fort Worth, because I didn’t have any reason to be over there. Then we went to the Theatre Lounge, and I found Pappy and I got some money, and we got in the car and went back to Fort Worth and went out to the Three Twelve Club.

Mr. Griffin. Where is the Three Twelve Club?

Mrs. Powell. On Lancaster in Fort Worth. (2701 E. Lancaster.)

Mr. Griffin. About what time did you get to the Three Twelve Club?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. It must have been around 11.

Mr. Griffin. How long did you stay there?

Mrs. Powell. Until they closed.

Mr. Griffin. What time was that?

Mrs. Powell. 12.

Mr. Griffin. Then what did you do?

Mrs. Powell. Then I took them home and I went home, I guess.

Mr. Griffin. You hesitate. Now, what did you do?

Mrs. Powell. I either went home or went to the Cellar. I guess I went home.

Mr. Griffin. The Cellar, is that another club?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Where is the Cellar?

Mrs. Powell. Fort Worth.

Mr. Griffin. What makes you think you went to the Cellar?

Mrs. Powell. Because I went to the Cellar sometimes because the Cellar was open all night.

Mr. Griffin. Is it an all night club?

Mrs. Powell. Yes, sir. That is where the Secret Service men go.

Mr. Griffin. I am not in the Secret Service.

Mrs. Powell. Pat said he would probably be called to ask him about getting them drunk on purpose. But they don’t have drinks down there. I had a rum and coke.

Mr. Griffin. Is that rum extract?

Mrs. Powell. Yes. Anyway, whether I went home or not, I may have gone by the Cellar, or home, one or the two. I really don’t remember. I can’t remember all those things away back then.

Mr. Griffin. Do you remember while you were at the Colony Club about Little Lynn and Bruce going out any place?

Mrs. Powell. No; she made a phone call. Did I tell you she called Jack and asked him?

Mr. Griffin. How did you know that she called Jack?

Mrs. Powell. Because I was with her. I didn’t go in the phone, but she called him.

Mr. Griffin. Where did she call him?

Mrs. Powell. From the parking lot. She said she asked him why he didn’t tell her that he wasn’t going to be open, and he got—this is hearsay. I mean, that is what she repeated to me, and I don’t know if I can repeat exactly what she said.

Mr. Griffin. When did she repeat it; at that time?

Mrs. Powell. Yes; right afterward. She was pretty mad, because she made the trip over and everything and they were closed, so she asked Jack why they didn’t tell her they were going to be closed. And she said that he started hollering at her, “Don’t you have any respect for the President?” And she said he was hollering and screaming and was real mad and said that she should have known that he was going to be closed. Anyway, she proceeded to tell him that she needed some money.

Mr. Griffin. How much money did she ask him for?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. I think $20 or $25. I think it was $25; I am not sure. And he was going to the synagogue.

Mr. Griffin. How do you know he was going to the synagogue?

Mrs. Powell. Well, because I know he was going to the synagogue. Maybe somebody told me, but I know he went to the synagogue that day.

Mr. Griffin. Are you sure that he went that night? How do you know he went the same night the telephone call was made?

Mrs. Powell. I think that is the night he went to the synagogue, really. I am saying this is a fact, you understand?

Mr. Griffin. Are you sure that was on Saturday night, or could it have been Friday night that you were at the Colony Club?

Mrs. Powell. It was the day after the President was shot. What day was that?

Mr. Griffin. That would have been a Saturday.

Mrs. Powell. Well, that is when it was, because the first night they were closed up, and the next night they were all open except Jack.

Mr. Griffin. Do you remember, did Little Lynn tell you that after her telephone call? Did Little Lynn tell you Jack said he was going to the synagogue?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t remember, but, okay, anyway, he was going someplace, and he couldn’t give her the money that night.

Mr. Griffin. Well, now, what makes you think he was going someplace?

Mrs. Powell. Well, he told her that he couldn’t bring the money to her until later, and she wanted to go out to his apartment and pick it up or something. I don’t remember, really, too much about it. But he told her that he would send it to her the next day.

Mr. Griffin. Did she get any money there at the parking lot?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. Were you at the parking lot?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. How did you know that Jack said he would send it to her the next day?

Mrs. Powell. Because she said so.

Mr. Griffin. When did she tell you that?

Mrs. Powell. When she got through talking on the phone, she told Bruce and I, because Bruce didn’t have any money, as usual, and they needed the money. She told Bruce that he said he would send it to her the next day. Because he was planning to stay closed, he told her, for 3 or 4 days, or until Monday, I think he said. Or I don’t remember. I think he was going to stay closed until Monday, or until after the funeral, he was going to stay closed. She could tell you more about that. But I know he was going to send her the money, because she told Bruce.

Mr. Griffin. Are you sure you didn’t stay up in the club while she made that phone call, at the Colony Club?

Mrs. Powell. I am not sure.

Mr. Griffin. You seem to have a pretty vivid recollection of being down there.

Mrs. Powell. I know when we went, we stopped at the parking lot, when we went to the club, and it was closed. I know she made a phone call from the parking lot.

Mr. Griffin. How do you know that?

Mrs. Powell. Because I know she didn’t make it in the club. I don’t think she did. Hell, she may have. She might have; I don’t remember, really. All I know is what she came back and said after she got through talking on the phone. What she said is that Jack was real mad and was hollering, “Don’t you have any respect for the President,” and said that he couldn’t bring her the money right then, or something, but that he would send it to her the next day, something. And I know Bruce wanted to know if we could go by and pick it up, and we discussed that, but for some reason he was going to send it; I don’t know.

Mr. Griffin. You don’t remember getting any money on Saturday night?

Mrs. Powell. Her getting any money?

Mr. Griffin. Yes.

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know where she would get it from, because she was with me, and we didn’t go any place to get any money. I didn’t loan them any money. I came over to get money from Pappy myself.

Mr. Griffin. Didn’t Lynn borrow any money from Pappy?

Mrs. Powell. Not that I know of.

Mr. Griffin. She was with you when you went to Pappy’s?

Mrs. Powell. I think I cornered Pappy in the parking lot, and I think that they stayed up in the club, in the Colony Club.

Mr. Griffin. Did you see anybody up in the Colony Club that worked for Jack?

Mrs. Powell. Nope.

Mr. Griffin. Were any of his friends up there?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t remember whether I did or not. I remember seeing Abe. I don’t really remember. I don’t recall.

Mr. Griffin. Did you make any stops between Dallas and Fort Worth on the way back?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. Did you go past Jack’s apartment?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t think so.

Mr. Griffin. You seem to have some hesitation?

Mrs. Powell. Well, the reason I am doing that is because I know there was some sort of discussion about going by there to pick the money up, which we didn’t. I don’t think we did. I think that we went directly to Fort Worth.

Mr. Griffin. You hadn’t made any arrangements yourself to see either Jack or Ralph Paul Saturday night, had you?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. Did you talk to Ralph that day at all?

Mrs. Powell. Well, I don’t think I talked to him that day. I don’t think I did. I may have, but I don’t think so. I don’t remember.

Mr. Griffin. You were still dating Ralph at that time?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t remember that either. I was trying to remember. I don’t think so. I don’t remember. I just can’t remember things like that.

Mr. Griffin. You saw him the next day?

Mrs. Powell. I am the one that called him and told him.

Mr. Griffin. Where were you when you called him?

Mrs. Powell. I was at home. He was at work, and a friend of mine called me and told me that Jack had done this thing.

Mr. Griffin. Who called you?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know, one of my girl friends. Two or three of my girl friends. Betty, this friend of mine, called first.

Mr. Griffin. What is Betty’s name?

Mrs. Powell. Betty Stowbaugh.

Mr. Griffin. Who else called you?

Mrs. Powell. I think Barbara called.

Mr. Griffin. Who is she?

Mrs. Powell. Barbara Wagner. Why do you want to know all the people that called? It was on TV, and they called to let me know.

Mr. Griffin. Who else called you?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. 1 know those two called.

Mr. Griffin. Did Little Lynn call you?

Mrs. Powell. Yes; but Betty called me as soon as it happened, before they knew who did it, and she told me to turn it on channel something real quick, and the TV was on already, but I had just gotten up, and I ran in there, and then they kept saying Jack Luey, and I thought well, that is not him. It was on TV. They said Jack Ruby did it. Then they said Jack Ruby, and I called Ralph and told him.

Mr. Griffin. What did Ralph say?

Mrs. Powell. He said, “No; he didn’t.” And I said, “Yes; he did.” “No; he didn’t do that,” he said. “He is at home.” And I said, “No; he is not. He did it.” So he said he would call the apartment, “And call you right back.” So, he called the apartment, and there was no answer, and he had a radio down there, and somebody came in or something on the radio and told him that it happened.

Mr. Griffin. How do you know Ralph called Jack’s apartment?

Mrs. Powell. He told me. That is what he said he was going to do, call the apartment. He said he was home and was going to call to see if he was at home.

Mr. Griffin. Then what did you do?

Mrs. Powell. I was there at the house and he said he would call me back. I don’t know whether I called him or he called me, but anyway, we spoke on the phone again, and he knew that it was Jack that had done it.

Mr. Griffin. What did he tell you?

Mrs. Powell. He couldn’t believe that he would do it. So he said he was going to come over right away to see about helping Jack, and wanted me to go with him.

Mr. Griffin. Didn’t he mention that he talked with Jack the night before?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. What did he tell you about that?

Mrs. Powell. He just said he spoke to Jack, and that Jack was very upset, and I think he wanted to go someplace.

Mr. Griffin. Where did he want to go?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. I think he wanted Ralph to go someplace with him or something special and Ralph didn’t feel like going or doing anything that night. He just didn’t feel like doing anything, and I think he talked to Jack two or three times that night and he kept calling him at home, and he woke him up a couple of times. I know Ralph felt bad about it because he felt if he had come over and gone out with Jack, maybe he wouldn’t have gotten into a state of depression.

Mr. Griffin. Well, didn’t Ralph mention to you that Jack told him he had a gun and Jack was thinking about shooting Oswald Saturday night?

Mrs. Powell. No; he didn’t tell me that.

Mr. Griffin. Don’t you remember him saying that over at the Bull Pen Drive-in when you went over there?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. What do you remember him saying over there?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t remember him saying anything except that Ralph didn’t have any idea that Jack was even contemplating such a thing. He didn’t. I mean, I know.

Mr. Griffin. How do you know that?

Mrs. Powell. Because I know Ralph, and I know Jack, and I know that Ralph didn’t have any idea, because he and Jack were very good friends, and if Ralph had had any idea at all whatsoever that Jack was planning to do something like that, he would have stopped him, or tried to stop him.

Mr. Griffin. Well, don’t you think if Jack did have that sort of idea, that he would have told Ralph about it?

Mrs. Powell. Well, no; not especially, because Jack is the type of person that is not too sure what he is going to do himself, because he is not too sure that he would tell somebody that he is going to do something at such and such a time, because he is not sure himself.

Mr. Griffin. What did you all talk about when you got over to the Bull Pen that morning?

Mrs. Powell. I just went to the Bull Pen and immediately got in the car and came over here, and we went down to the city hall, and we went in.

In the meantime, George Senator came down, and they arrested him, so the lawyers came over, and Ralph called Tommy Howard, or I think Tom Howard, and we were down in the police station to see Jack and see about him, and the lawyers came in a couple of hours, and they got us out of there right away, because they said they were afraid they might lock us up too, because they had already grabbed George and put him in jail. So, they took us across the street to the office, and we were sitting there hoping that what’s-his-name wouldn’t die.

Mr. Griffin. Did you talk to George at all that day?

Mrs. Powell. No; we didn’t see George. He was in jail. He didn’t get out until that evening or that night. We were over there, and Tom Howard, I think, and another lawyer—I know Tom Howard went over and spoke to Jack. They called to see if they could, and he went and spoke to Jack, and then they came back.

In the meantime, we were watching TV and Bill DeMar got on there and said he saw Oswald in the club. And there was a Houston reporter over there asking me all kinds of questions. We were hoping and praying that maybe he wouldn’t die, so we were listening to see, and he did.

Mr. Griffin. Then where did you go from there?

Mrs. Powell. Well, we left there and went back to—the drummer was over there—Bill Willis came in.

Mr. Griffin. To the police station?

Mrs. Powell. No; the lawyer’s office, and there was just people milling in and out that knew Jack. They were all around.

Mr. Griffin. How did Bill Willis happen to come?

Mrs. Powell. He was down there around the police station and we saw him on the street and hollered, and he came in.

Mr. Griffin. Had Bill Willis been down around the police station earlier?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. I saw him walking across the street. I imagine all the people came down when that happened, you know, but then we went back to the Bull Pen, I guess, and I got my car and I went home, I think. I don’t remember what I did afterward. I think I went home. I did go home, yes; I did go home.

Mr. Griffin. Did you take off someplace?

Mrs. Powell. I rode with Ralph to the Bull Pen, and I got my car and went home, and I stayed there. Well, he didn’t want to be bothered by reporters and all that, because they were poking around, so he went to some friend’s house to stay.

Mr. Griffin. How do you know that?

Mrs. Powell. Because he called me and told me where he was going to be. He said he didn’t want to be bothered with a bunch of reporters, because Ralph took it pretty hard, because he liked Jack quite a bit and he took it pretty hard. So he went over to this friend’s house and he was over there, and then he went someplace else, and the FBI came and got him. And this Rose woman that worked for him, she cried and said he is like her father.

Mr. Griffin. Did he call Ralph, Johnny, at the Bull Pen?

Mrs. Powell. No; Johnny is Rose’s husband. Rose was crying and called me up and was real upset, and the FBI had taken him and questioned him and wanted me to come over, and I had an interview on TV that night. She wanted me to come over there and go with her. She was crying and hysterical, so I went back to Arlington and got her, and we came to the police station, and they didn’t have him down there, so we got back in the car and went down to the FBI. They wanted to talk to me, because they asked Rose, when they got Ralph, if I was with him. So I went down and he questioned me and questioned her, and we went back to Arlington. They had taken him to the Arlington police station and questioned him. So then we went home and went to bed.

Mr. Griffin. When did you hear from Lynn?

Mrs. Powell. She called me that day that it happened, sometime during the time.

Mr. Griffin. What did she have to say?

Mrs. Powell. I am not even sure that it was Lynn; whether it was Lynn or Bruce. I don’t know. Just the same thing everybody was saying, “Did you know that Jack did this, and what do you think about it?” You know; what everybody asked.

Mr. Griffin. Did she mention anything to you about having talked with him that morning?

Mrs. Powell. No; I don’t believe so. Gosh, it was so hard to remember, because so much happened in just such a short time, and being so involved like right here it is, it is hard to remember all those things.

Mr. Griffin. Try to remember a little harder.

Mrs. Powell. What do you want me to remember?

Mr. Griffin. What she said in the conversation.

Mrs. Powell. Well, I don’t know. Something like, “Did you see Jack, or did you know Jack shot Oswald, or did you see him on TV,” or something. And I said, “Yes”; like, “What do you think about it,” or something. I am trying to remember something that happened on Saturday night. I knew that something was terribly wrong with Jack that Saturday.

Mr. Griffin. How did you know that?

Mrs. Powell. Because he wouldn’t close the club down for any reason at all, and he was very upset. I don’t remember now, but I remember making a statement to Bruce and Lynn on the way home that I didn’t know what he was up to, but he was up to something. I remember making that statement, because I know him like a book. But I had no idea. I had no idea that this was the thing he was going to do, but I just knew he was going to do something. But we were discussing it on the way back. But what I thought maybe he was going to do, a lot of people figured when this thing happened that the Kennedys were going to come down and close this town up completely, you know, so we figured that, well, that is the only thing.

I figured that maybe Jack was afraid that he might be closed up or something, so he was going to stay closed until after the funeral, or something like that. But I just knew he was going to do something.

Mr. Griffin. What was it that you had heard that he had said or done that made you feel that way?

Mrs. Powell. Nothing; whenever Lynn spoke to him on the phone and when she came back and told us what he had said, and then he was real upset, but the thing that made me think that is because Jack would not close down. We begged and begged him to let us off Christmas or Christmas Day, and there was no way he was going to do it. Ralph said he wouldn’t close the club down for anything.

Mr. Griffin. He stayed open on Christmas Eve and Christmas night?

Mrs. Powell. No; Ralph told him to close one day. I forget—it was more than two. We closed one or the two. I think it was Christmas Eve when he closed. Yes; it was Christmas Eve when we were closed. But I just knew he was up to something, but in my wildest imagination I didn’t dream he would do that. But I figured he had some reason for closing up that way. I was just shocked too, because I happened to remember making that statement to Lynn.

Mr. Griffin. What did Lynn say?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t recall that she said anything. I know we were just discussing it in general.

Mr. Griffin. What about Bruce?

Mrs. Powell. Bruce agreed with me that he figured that Jack was up to something.

Mr. Griffin. What sort of guy is Bruce?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t like him.

Mr. Griffin. Why is that?

Mrs. Powell. Because he comes on like a junior jiver with a bunch of this hip talk. “Man,” and this stuff, and I don’t like this. And he doesn’t work, and Lynn was pregnant, and he beat her up all the time.

Mr. Griffin. Was he living off her?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Was he prostituting her?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t think so; I really don’t know. I didn’t care enough to find out that much. I know she was working over here and riding with me, and he just beat on her, and her pregnant, and I don’t like it. So I can’t like men like that, so I don’t care for him too much. As a matter of fact, I absolutely don’t like him at all.

Mr. Griffin. Did he come back with you in the car?

Mrs. Powell. Back where?

Mr. Griffin. Back to Fort Worth?

Mrs. Powell. Yes; we all three went back and went to that club.

Mr. Griffin. Then did you take them home?

Mrs. Powell. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Does Bruce have a car?

Mrs. Powell. I think they were supposed to have a car; but it was in the shop or something, because she had been riding with me.

Mr. Griffin. Did you see anybody there at the club that night that works for Jack; friends of Jack?

Mrs. Powell. What club?

Mr. Griffin. The club that you went to with Lynn and Bruce.

Mrs. Powell. No; just about everybody knows Jack. He knows so many people.

Mr. Griffin. Did Bruce make any telephone calls from the club that night?

Mrs. Powell. Not that I recall.

Mr. Griffin. Did Bruce or Lynn ever say anything to you after Jack shot Oswald that indicated what they had done Sunday morning?

Mrs. Powell. No; what did they do Sunday morning?

Mr. Griffin. That is my secret.

Mrs. Powell. Tell me so I will know everything. I know that Jack sent her some money, but I didn’t find out from her.

Mr. Griffin. How did you find out?

Mrs. Powell. I read it in the papers. I know that he sent some money just before he did that. That is what it said. It said everything in the paper.

Mr. Griffin. Did you see Kathy Kay after Jack shot Oswald?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t think I saw her. She came to work in Oklahoma City while I was there. She worked up there with me. But I was there 2 weeks before she came up there. She never went back to the club.

Mr. Griffin. Why didn’t she go back?

Mrs. Powell. Because she didn’t want to. Because for one thing, she had this boy friend that she had been going with that was a policeman, and they were going to get married, and his parents didn’t know she was an exotic, and her parents didn’t know she was an exotic—and there was some guy from England—reporters came to her apartment and wanted to interview her, and she didn’t want her family in England to know she is an exotic dancer, and she didn’t want to be involved in it.

Mr. Griffin. What did she tell you about her contacts with Jack over the weekend?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t recall that she told me anything about it. She was planning on going back to work when he opened the club, but before he opened the club, he did this other thing, so she never did go back. She told Ralph that she wasn’t going to come back.

Mr. Griffin. How about her husband?

Mrs. Powell. Whose?

Mr. Griffin. Kathy’s husband?

Mrs. Powell. She wasn’t married then.

Mr. Griffin. You mean she—the guy she did marry, this fellow?

Mrs. Powell. That is what they said.

Mr. Griffin. You mean she was living with him as man and wife?

Mrs. Powell. Yes; I guess they got married. They said they got married.

Mr. Griffin. Was he up there in Oklahoma City with her?

Mrs. Powell. No; he stayed here.

Mr. Griffin. Do you have any information as to how Jack got into the basement of the police department?

Mrs. Powell. No; but he could get in anywhere.

Mr. Griffin. Do you have any information that anybody helped him?

Mrs. Powell. No; I don’t think anybody helped him. You just have to know him. He is probably a lot different now than he was, but if you had known him the way I knew him, and a lot of people knew him, he would do anything. They would have a ball game here every year, Texas-Oklahoma, and it sold out a year in advance, and all the tickets are sold the day before the game and he said, “I am going to the Texas-O.U. game.”

And I said, “How will you get in?”

And he said, “I will get in.”

And they are taking this guy off to jail, and as he passes by, the guy hands him the ticket, and they are selling the tickets for $25 apiece, and you can’t get them.

Mr. Griffin. Do you have any information as to anything he told about what he planned to do?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. Did Ralph ever say anything which indicated——

Mrs. Powell. Ralph did not know. I know that Ralph didn’t know he was planning to do that, or Ralph would have tried to stop him. I know Ralph felt badly because Jack wanted to go out and he didn’t go, and then he felt badly because he felt like if he had gone, maybe Jack would have confided in him and he could have prevented it.

Mr. Griffin. How about Little Lynn?

Mrs. Powell. She didn’t know anything.

Mr. Griffin. What makes you say that?

Mrs. Powell. Because after she spoke to Jack, on the way home she didn’t offer any comments or anything about why she thought he was acting that way. She didn’t know any more than anybody else.

Mr. Griffin. She hadn’t told you that she learned anything later after she left you?

Mrs. Powell. No; she hadn’t. I don’t know where she learned it from, because I took her home, and they don’t have a car, and it was 12 o’clock and the buses weren’t running.

Mr. Griffin. I am going to ask you if this diagram, which I have previously marked as Exhibit No. 1, is a reasonably accurate diagram, if you will sign that?

Mrs. Powell. Do you want me to sign Nancy Powell or Tammi True?

Mr. Griffin. Which name do you like to sign?

Mrs. Powell. It doesn’t make any difference to me.

Mr. Griffin. Why don’t you sign Nancy Powell.

Mrs. Powell (signs name).

Mr. Griffin. Is there anything else, Nancy, that you think we haven’t covered that might be of use to us?

Mrs. Powell. I don’t know. We’ve spent a lot of time here.

Mr. Griffin. Who was the girl that Jack thought had class?

Mrs. Powell. Bell Praperall, was the girl he thought had so much class. And she came up to the club the last time I saw her, and she was drunk out of her mind, talking terribly vulgar, like some streetwalker, but this girl had class. She did. But Jack made the mistake of telling her that she had class, and boy, I am telling you, she talked there around like something else, but she didn’t end up with much class.

Mr. Griffin. Let me ask you to do one more thing. I am going to hand you what I have marked as Nancy Powell Deposition, July 25, 1964, Exhibit No. 2. It is a copy of an interview that two FBI agents, Glenn Silvi and Dave Byerly had with you on November 29, 1963, in Oklahoma City. I want to hand it to you and ask you to read it and tell us whether that is an accurate report of what you told them on that occasion?

Mrs. Powell (reading report). Well, I didn’t say that he had never associated. We went into discussion about these carnival people, and he had some dealings with some carnival people at one time. But I mean——

Mr. Griffin. You are referring to the sentence that says, “She said Ruby was not, to her knowledge, a gambler, and to her knowledge, never associated with carnival people?”

Mrs. Powell. Yes; because at one time he had invested in a carnival show. They asked me if I knew this Slayton, and I told him I thought I knew him. Down here it says I said that I believed Ruby formerly had an associate named Joe Slayton. They asked me if I knew Joe Slayton, and I said I thought I did, that I thought he was a partner or something at one time. I never knew Joe Slayton at all.

Mr. Griffin. Let me ask you, then, if you don’t have any other questions in that, to sign that.

Mrs. Powell. I don’t like the way they said that, “An acquaintance with an exotic dancer.” Where do you want me to sign this?

Mr. Griffin. Up at the top.

Mrs. Powell. Right here?

Mr. Griffin. Yes.

Mrs. Powell (signs).

Mr. Griffin. I am going to hand you what I have marked as Nancy Powell Deposition, July 25, 1964, Exhibit No. 3. That is a 3-page document which is a report of an interview that two FBI agents, Gary K. Wilson and Joseph G. Peggs, had with you on November 24 in Dallas.

Mrs. Powell. I sure wish I had a cigarette. I didn’t know really I was going to be up here 10 hours. Very well, where do you want me to sign this?

Mr. Griffin. Sign on the first page at the top.

Mrs. Powell (signs name).

Mr. Griffin. Would you initial each of the other pages?

Mrs. Powell (initials).

Mr. Griffin. Okay. Do you have any questions, Tammi?

Mrs. Powell. No.

Mr. Griffin. I want to thank you very much for spending all this time and coming all the way from Oklahoma City.

Mrs. Powell. Well, tonight I will hate you. A little later I will be real mad.

Mr. Griffin. Are you working tonight?

Mrs. Powell. Sure. I didn’t get off until 3 o’clock this morning.

Mr. Griffin. Are you going to be able to make it back?

Mrs. Powell. I have to do three shows tonight. I will get back just in time to go to work, and I have to do three shows. I don’t have to work tomorrow, though, Sunday. I am going to rest up all day and go out and see all the other people that have to work on Sunday. And I have to write a letter to the Commission.