Orphans' Court Room,
Pittsburgh, Saturday, February 9, 1878
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was
Archibald Jeffrey, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. No. 32 Anderson street.
Q. How long have you resided there?
A. Going on three years.
Q. What is your business?
A. I am a machinist.
Q. Were you in the vicinity of the disorders that occurred, commencing on the 19th day of July last—that day or at any time following?
A. I was out there on the 22d—I believe that is Saturday evening.
Q. At what point?
A. About Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Tell us what you saw there?
A. There was a great deal of noise around there for awhile.
Q. Made by whom?
A. I can't just exactly tell who.
Q. There was a crowd there?
A. Yes.
Q. Composed of what classes?
A. Of most every class.
Q. How large a crowd was there?
A. I have no idea—I suppose a thousand or fifteen hundred men—I suppose so.
Q. How long before the burning was it that you speak about?
A. I went out there in the evening about five o'clock—along there—and I think the burning commenced about ten and a half o'clock.
Q. What was the conduct of the crowd at five or six o'clock, when you went there first?
A. That was after the shooting had been done out there.
Q. After the firing by the militia, you mean?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the condition of the crowd at that time?
A. There was a lot of talking going on about the soldiers; but not being interested in the thing at all, I didn't pay much attention to it.
Q. What kind of talk was it?
A. They appeared to be angry about the soldiers firing at the crowd.
Q. Where was the crowd assembled then?
A. About Twenty-eighth street, near the crossing.
Q. Did you see anybody set fire to any car or building, or anything in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?
A. I did see one man. He was the only man.
Q. Who was he?
A. Matthew Marshall.
Q. What time was that?
A. It was in the afterpart of the night. I can't say exactly.
Q. What was it he fired?
A. A car of coke.
Q. Where was the car standing?
A. On the track, about two squares above Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Just describe how he did it; where he got his fire; how it took place?
A. I don't know where he got his fire. When I noticed him first he was in the car. He had a bunch of shavings, and was in a sitting down position, and appeared to me to be kindling a fire. When the fire got kindled he jumped out. I saw him fifteen or twenty minutes afterwards. He was the only person I know of.
Q. Did you speak to him?
A. No.
Q. Was anybody with him?
A. I didn't notice anybody with him.
Q. What was the result of the kindling of the fire?
A. If there had been no other fire it would have burnt that car up; but there was fire all around.
Q. Other cars were then on fire?
A. Yes; burning at the same time.
Q. What has become of Mr. Marshall?
A. He is in prison—over the river.
Q. At whose instigation was he arrested?
A. I can't say that myself.
Q. You were not present when the firing took place by the militia?
A. No.
Q. Did you see any other fires kindled?
A. I don't believe I did.
Q. Describe whether there were other fires going on then, and how they were kindled, and what the mob were doing, and describe all the circumstances that took place at that time?
A. There appeared to me to be a gang of men. I don't know who they were—whether railroaders or not.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did they seem to have any organized leaders, or were they directed by anybody?
A. It appeared to me they had at that time.
Q. Were they not running helter-skelter?
A. They were ordering each other around. I can't say whether they had an organization or not.
Q. Did it strike you that they had?
A. It did, at that time.
Q. That it was an organization?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. An organization without a head—do you mean to say that?
A. It appeared to me at that time that it was an organization, but I don't say it positively myself.
Q. Was there any particular party to command it?
A. Yes; it looked to me so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What did the crowd seem to be aiming at, at that time—was it the destruction of property?
A. I can't say that. There was a great deal of destruction and thieving going on.
Q. Pillage and plunder?
A. Yes.
Q. What was said by the rioters?
A. I can't state.
Q. Was this firing confined entirely to railroad property?
A. It was at that time.
Q. Was there any attempt made by any one, so far as you saw, to fire private property?
A. No.
Q. It seemed to be confined entirely to railroad property?
A. Yes.
Q. This man Marshall you spoke of, was entirely alone when you saw him fire the car?
A. So far as I know.
Q. Nobody seemed to be acting in concert with him?
A. No.
Q. Did this coke car stand entirely alone?
A. It stood in a train. They kept running cars down, six or seven at a time, against each other. This came down with the rest of them.
Q. Describe that. The firing of this car would communicate to others?
A. Yes.
Q. After the car was fired, was it put in motion?
A. Not that I noticed.
Q. When you speak of running cars down, where were they running them from?
A. From out the road some place. I think it is down grade this way.
Q. Did the cars stop at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Above Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Near the round-house?
A. The round-house is on Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Did the cars stop near the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were the troops then?
A. I suppose they were in one of the round-houses.
Q. Do you know that to be a fact?
A. I walked down, and the guard was standing there. I suppose so.
Q. The cars that were run down, then, would stop somewhere near the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any effort made to fire the round-house, that you saw?
A. No; I didn't get near enough.
Q. Was there any attack being made upon the round-house by the mob at that time?
A. I can't say that there was. Not that I know of.
Q. Was there anything said by the mob about the soldiers being quartered in the round-house?
A. Not that I can remember.
Q. How long were you there?
A. I went out in the evening about six or seven o'clock, along there. I stayed along Liberty street and was once or twice on the railroad, and saw Marshall, and along Liberty street at four or five o'clock in the morning.
Q. How close to the mob?
A. I was twice, once or twice, upon the railroad.
Q. At what point on the railroad?
A. Just about where I saw this man.
Q. How far from the mob?
A. That just appeared to be—I stood along the edge of the railroad, and this car was on the second or third track, off the edge of the railroad.
Q. How many rods or feet from the mob?
A. Not more than five or six rods—something like that.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. You were in the crowd, were you?
A. No; not just in the crowd. I was standing looking at them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were within five or six rods?
A. Yes.
Q. Was the crowd noisy and boisterous?
A. Yes.
Q. What did they appear to be saying?
A. I paid no attention to that.
Q. Did you hear them say anything?
A. I could hear them say a good bit, but it is a long time ago.
Q. What did they appear to be doing?
A. Dragging things off.
Q. What?
A. Goods and things.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was this man Marshall a railroad man or an outsider?
A. I never knew him to be a railroad man.
Q. Do you know anything about him at all—you knew the man?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Where did he reside?
A. He lived in the First ward, Allegheny, some place.
Q. Had you known him for years?
A. Yes.
Q. He had lived in Allegheny for some time?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was his business?
A. He was a machinist.
Q. In whose employ was he at that time?
A. I don't know.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What were you doing there—what led you to go there?
A. I heard of the excitement, and I went down town and went out to see it.
Q. It was curiosity?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you say that other cars were burning when this man Marshall fired this coke car?
A. Yes.
Q. At that time?
A. Yes.
Q. It was not the first car burned?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were you there when the first car was fired?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What kind of things were they dragging off—merchandise from the cars?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any railroad men among that party?
A. I don't know. I didn't know anybody but the one man.
Q. Did they have the appearance of railroad men—familiar with tracks and with getting on and going about cars?
A. I can't say that.
Q. You could not judge anything from their actions?
A. No.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How long was Marshall sent to the penitentiary for?
A. Six years, I believe.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In whose employ were you at that time?
A. In the employ of McIntosh, Hemphill & Co.
Q. Where are their works located?
A. Twelfth and Pike.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. How far were the other cars that were burning from this one?
A. They were close. There were cars all around, I suppose within thirty, or forty, or fifty feet.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. The crowd of spectators was not interfering with property?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were there until five o'clock in the morning?
A. About that time.
Q. How large was the crowd there during the night—take an average.—I mean the crowd engaged in burning or pillaging or plundering?
A. I couldn't just give an idea.
Q. What is your opinion as to how large the crowd was—a thousand men or five thousand or ten thousand?
A. Two or three thousand.
Q. You mean that were about in the vicinity, and seemed to be taking part in the destruction of property?
A. If I were to give an estimate I would give you something that I don't know.
Q. Was there any effort made to stop the destruction of property during the night?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Was there any interference with it by any person?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. They were running things there themselves during the entire night?
A. It appeared so to me.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You did not see any soldiers, except the guard at the round-house?
A. I saw the guard and two or three standing there with him.
Q. There were none active in trying to beat back the crowd?
A. No.
Thomas M. King, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In Verona borough.
Q. You are officially connected with the Allegheny Valley Railroad—in what capacity?
A. I am superintendent of the river division.
Q. Did you occupy that position in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether there were any differences between the Allegheny Valley Railroad Company and their employés, existing prior to the 19th day of July last?
A. There was some dissatisfaction among the men in regard to the ten per cent. reduction, but they all appeared to accept it.
Q. When was the ten per cent. reduction made?
A. The 1st of June.
Q. To what classes of employés did that apply?
A. To all classes receiving over a dollar a day.
Q. And to the officers, from the president down?
A. Yes.
Q. There was some complaint at the time?
A. Some dissatisfaction.
Q. Between the 1st of June and the 19th of July, was there any organization among the men, so far as you could learn, or any pre-arranged plan to strike?
A. There was nothing positive. I understood that quite a number of the men were joining what was called the Trainmen's Union.
Q. Did you know the object of the Trainmen's Union.
A. Of my own knowledge I did not. I understood it was being organized for the purpose of organizing a strike.
Q. Did you, as superintendent, have any communication with the men that you understood were joining the organization in relation to it?
A. A short time before the strike, three or four of our men, I understood, were very active in it, and I think I suspended one or two temporarily, and talked to some others about it. My information just previous to the strike led me to suppose that our men were not going to stand by it, or were withdrawing—that they would not go into the strike.
Q. Did you get that information from conversation with your men?
A. Yes.
Q. With what class of employés?
A. Conductors and engineers.
Q. What class seemed to be most dissatisfied with the reduction?
A. Generally those of the lower grade of pay—such as brakemen; that class of men.
Q. When did the first strike occur on your road?
A. I think on Monday morning, the 23d, I believe.
Q. What class of men struck first?
A. I would qualify the other statement by stating that on Saturday, about ten o'clock, I got a message stating that the shop men had held a meeting and determined not to work any longer without the ten per cent. was restored. We went out and called the men together, and Mr. Shinn, our vice president, made a speech, and explained the situation to them, and they held a meeting and agreed to stand by the reduction and go to work again. That was the first difficulty we had. On Monday, I think was the first refusal, on the part of the train men, to perform service.
Q. What was said and done to get the men to resume work?
A. On Monday, I went down with an empty train, and turned up Pike street. There they drew up, and I went on to the shops. We had a street engine that far. After getting to the Thirty-fourth street station, I was surprised to see a road engine standing there. I imagined, at once, there was going to be a difficulty, and I got off the engine and walked up to the round-house, and there was quite a large number of our men congregated there. I spoke to them, and asked them what this meant. None of them made any reply. I told them that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company had made some arrangement with their men, and that, of course, we would be governed by any arrangement made on the trunk lines. I told them they were foolish to go into the strike in the midst of the excitement—that it would do them no good. I then asked one of the engineers to go on the express engine standing there, and take her out. I got no reply. I said: "Boys, I am very sorry you are acting badly, and if you don't take the engine out, I will have to take her myself." I got on the engine and took her out, and made a coupling on a train and started. In the meantime, one of the firemen came down and got on with me. By the time I got up to the round-house, one of the engineers came and took the engine from me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You don't mean took it forcibly?
A. Oh, no. I went back to the men, and by that time quite a crowd was gathered around, and there was a great deal of excitement. There were a great many people around that I never saw before. The men said they were going to call a meeting. I told them as a great many strangers, apparently, were around, I would sooner they would go away from the shops, and call their meeting at some other place where they could do it quietly. They did so, and concluded that they would not go to work. I succeeded in running all the trains that day that I cared about running.
Q. How did you accomplish that?
A. By working myself, and by calling on the dispatchers and two or three of the engineers. The next day a great many strangers were in our yard, apparently influencing our men. I sent for some of our men, and told them that I could not understand their conduct, that we had always endeavored to treat them kindly and squarely, then they said it was not their fault, that they were forced into it, and were doing what they did by intimidation; that it would be as much as their lives were worth to undertake to run those trains. By Tuesday noon I had a great deal of difficulty in getting the passenger trains to run. The men would be scared off and desert them. I gave the men notice on Tuesday afternoon, at three o'clock, that if they wanted the onus of stopping all the passenger trains on our road, they would have to do it—that we would not be justified in undertaking to run trains and run the risk of having an accident occur to them by their refusing to perform their duty.
Q. What action did they take then?
A. They called a meeting about four o'clock. I sent up to that meeting and asked them to send me down a man to take out the passengers that had come into the city that morning, so that we could get them home. I could not get any person to do that, and had to do it myself. I took the train out. That evening there was a committee waited on me with a proposal that they would run two of our trains—would select the crew to take charge of them. I had been unable to get any protection whatever either from the military or civil authorities.
Q. Did they carry out that arrangement?
A. I sent a request to the committee of public safety, and had also gone and seen General Brown, personally, to get some protection for our shops, and also some ammunition for a company that we had at Verona guarding our property there. General Brown said he could give me no assistance, whatever, and so far as his ammunition was concerned, he had but very few cartridges for his command. He, however, gave me forty, and an order to gather up the company at Verona, and place them on duty there. He said he could not allow any troops to be sent out of the city at all, as he deemed it of more importance to keep them in the city than to send them on the outskirts. From Mr. Thaw, I learned also, that the committee of public safety had declined to send any persons. After the men had made their proposal, I notified them that I would give them an answer in the morning, and started up to the east end and saw Mr. Shinn, our vice president, and submitted their proposal to him, and explained the position we were in—that we could get no protection either from the civil or military authorities, and that if our men were willing to work, I thought it would be prudent, on our part, to submit to the men until such times as the authorities could regain control. He agreed with me, and authorized me to let the men take charge of the trains and run them, so as not to stop the United States mails. The trains were run under the charge of the men for two days—Wednesday and Thursday. On Friday, we took charge of the trains ourselves again. We ran the passenger trains on Friday and on Saturday—all we desired to, and notified the men on Saturday that we proposed to commence running trains on Monday. And I advised all the men that desired to retain their positions, and who wanted to go to work again, that if they would come down on Monday and take their trains they could do so.
Q. How many responded on Monday?
A. We had some difficulty up until two o'clock, and I was compelled to employ a few new men. After that, the men saw that we were determined, to start the business on the road again, and the majority came in, and we had all the men we wanted.
Q. Did you have any assistance from the military at any time?
A. Yes.
Q. When was it?
A. I think on Thursday night. I went down to General Brown, and got an order from him to bring the company that was at Verona, doing duty there, to Forty-third street. He also sent a detail of cavalry from the city, and we took charge of the road on Friday morning, and started our trains.
Q. I understand it was on Tuesday you made the application to him.
A. On Monday night and Tuesday both.
Q. The troops were refused?
A. Yes.
Q. When was it you made application to the citizen's protective committee?
A. On Tuesday, Mr. Paul came to me, and told me. He said: "Mr. King, you are running a great risk. There is a great deal of excitement, and I have heard a great many threats, not only against you, but your road." I think it was at nine o'clock in the morning—between nine and ten. I said to him: "Mr. Paul, you see the condition of things here. If you can do anything with the committee of public safety, I think you should go and explain our position to them." He remarked to me that he had heard some threats among the men on Butler street, about burning the bridges and destroying property, and, also, some threats against me personalty, on account of my having been running trains out. The men were afraid to take them at the station, on account of the threats made against them. I could not get the trains run out, but as soon as I would get out of the city limits, an engineer would come forward, and relieve me. In that way, we were enabled to keep the passenger trains going.
Q. Who was Mr. Paul?
A. He was a neighbor of mine, living at Verona—of the firm of Metcalf, Paul & Co.—a member of that firm.
Q. Did you see any of the committee of public safety?
A. No. I was very busy, watching our property, and could not get down town during the day. Everybody was excited, and there were a good many outsiders around.
Q. Did Mr. Paul report to you after seeing the committee?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who he saw of the committee of public safety?
A. He did tell me, but I don't recollect now. I think he went in before the committee, and made a speech to them, and explained the situation—at least, that is my recollection.
Q. What kind of assistance was the committee of public safety rendering at that time?
A. I can't answer that. They were organizing the citizens into companies, for the purpose of protecting the city.
Q. Mutual protection?
A. Yes. The night I drove out to see Mr. Shinn the whole city appeared to be patrolled. It was midnight, and I was halted at almost every corner. The citizens were all apparently out.
Q. Were they armed?
A. Yes.
Q. On Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, were your men all at work?
A. Yes.
Q. What time did the shopmen quit work on Saturday?
A. At the usual hour.
Q. What is that hour?
A. Half past five in the evening. Mr. Shinn was there at half past two or three, and called the men together, and made a speech. I left then, and I think they all returned to work.
Q. Did I understand you to say that all the trains, both passenger and freight, were running on Saturday?
A. Yes; we sent out the night trains on Saturday evening, after the trouble had commenced.
Q. Was the same order issued by your company that was issued by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, as to running double headers?
A. There was no necessity for it on our road.
Q. The only reduction in any way was the ten per cent. reduction, on the 1st of June, on your road?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you any reason to apprehend any strike, prior to the breaking out of the one here among your men?
A. No; I had an assurance from quite a number that they would not go into the strike.
Q. Did you receive any order from Colonel Grey upon Captain Patterson to furnish you with men?
A. I think that is the order I referred to. I went and saw General Brown, and he gave me an order to Captain Patterson, to get the men together and report for duty at Verona shops.
Q. On Tuesday?
A. Yes; I am not sure whether it was Monday night or Tuesday. My recollection is, it was Monday night, but probably it was Tuesday.
Q. Did he give you the order when you first saw him—the first time he was called upon?
A. I was to see him two or three times during that period, and I am not positive about it. I think it was the second time; it may have been the first. I am not positive.
Q. Did he make any refusal the first time you saw him?
A. I explained to him, that we had a guard of seventy-five men, that we had organized ourselves at Verona, among whom were some of the Verona company, but they had no ammunition. I think that the General said to me, if I could get that company together, he would let it remain, but he could not send any troops from the city hall.
Q. Did he state his reasons?
A. He deemed it more important to keep the command together than to separate them.
Q. Did you make any application to the mayor or sheriff of the county for aid?
A. No; we did not need it until after the riot. It was only from the desire to protect our men who were willing to work. And I had been advised on Monday or Tuesday of some incendiary speech, made among the miners, and I looked for some trouble among them.
Q. Was any of the property of the Allegheny Valley railroad destroyed?
A. Nothing but a baggage car at Union depot and the tracks running in front of the round-house where we approached Union depot.
Q. Had you any number of cars there at the time the burning occurred?
A. I think we had about two hundred south of Forty-third street.
Q. Were any of them laden with freight?
A. Some with ore; the merchandise cars I removed Sunday night myself. Word was sent to me that the men were going to burn the freight station.
Q. Were you interfered with in any way?
A. No.
Q. In the interviews you had with your men before the strike—between the 1st of June and the strike—what reasons did the men give for their anticipated strike?
Q. They were dissatisfied with the reduction of wages. There had been one the previous year or so, and this one coming in that time, made them very much dissatisfied.
Q. How long before was the other reduction?
A. I think in 1874 or 1875.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Is it not a habit for the men, when their wages are reduced, to complain?
A. Oh, yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was it deemed necessary on the part of the company to make that reduction?
A. The board of directors thought so.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Had there been a falling off in business?
A. The business was very irregular and spurty. Sometimes we were running all the trains we could, and then they would drop off. And rates were not so good as they had been.
Q. From your position, you should judge that was the reason why the reduction was made?
A. I should judge it was a necessity on the part of the management to do it, on account of the condition of the trade of the country.
Q. There had been strikes in other parts of the country before this trouble occurred here—for instance, at Martinsburg?
A. I believe so—from newspaper reports.
Q. Did you have any consultation with the railroad authorities when this occurred—or did you take any measures to avert this?
A. So far as we were concerned, we did not anticipate it.
Q. You had no anticipation of any trouble on your road?
A. There had been some talk in regard to the train men's union, that it was for the purpose of getting up a strike. But many of our men, I understood, were withdrawing from it, and would not lend themselves to anything of the kind. For that reason I did not anticipate any trouble among our men.
Q. Do you know whether there was any aid asked of or any consultation held with the authorities before the strike came about?
A. I cannot answer that. I was not in the city that day.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How did the business that the road was doing for three months prior to June 1st, when the reduction was made in wages, compare with the same three months of the year before?
A. My recollection is that our average may have been a little heavier, but I am not positive about that.
Q. In the three months preceding June, 1877.
A. Yes; our business is spasmodic. It is the oil business. A part of the year they are doing a good business, and then it drops off to nothing.
Q. How did the prices for the carrying of freight compare in 1877 with those in 1876?
A. I cannot answer that. I did not make the rates.
Q. Had there been any change in rates, so far as you know?
A. My impression is that the rates in 1877 were lower than in 1876. I want to say here, that our shifting engines handling freight on the street had been interfered with two or three times during Saturday morning by the crowd going down Twenty-eighth street, and sent back. I walked out the street, from Eleventh street to Forty-third—between eleven and twelve o'clock. I saw that there was a very considerable excitement among the people, and a good deal of feeling. From there I went up on to Twenty-eighth street, where the strikers were in possession of the track. I saw but very few people there that I knew. Some faces were familiar to me. I came back to the office, and got a report about the action of the men at the shop, and went out there at half-past two o'clock, and on my return I walked up to the Pennsylvania railroad shops, and found the troops were moving out. I went in through the yard, and followed in the rear of the column. After the troops reached the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street, I got up on a car right in the rear of them, and I watched their movements—the formation of the command. The crossings were cleared. I saw a few stones thrown among the crowd, and I saw a man with a cap on—saw him draw a pistol, and fire into the troops.
Q. Do you know who it was?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether he was a railroad man or not?
A. I cannot answer that. When the company struck the crowd on the crossing there was a recoil like jumping up against a rock. There did not appear to be any give to it. Then there was a struggle, and some of the men reached for the muskets, and two or three of the soldiers pulled back and brought their muskets to a charge, and three or four shots were fired.
Q. By the troops?
A. Yes; and then there appeared to be a volley from the entire command—a rattling fire—starting at the front rank and breaking back to the rear.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What do you mean by the entire command?
A. The head commenced firing, and then it run back on the wings. It was an irregular roll of musketry. I got off the car, and fell back after the firing ceased. My position was somewhat exposed.
Q. Did you hear any command to fire?
A. I do not think there was any command given.
Q. You were in a position to hear it?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many shots were fired by the crowd before the militia began to fire?
A. I only saw one. I saw some stones thrown.
Q. Was a volley of stones thrown in among the militia, or was it scattering?
A. Scattering.
Q. From what point were the stones thrown?
A. They appeared to come from the hill side—in the vicinity of the watch-box, near the crossing.
Q. What was the effect of the firing of the stones among the militia—was there any damage done to life or limb?
A. I noticed a sergeant of one of the Philadelphia companies with a bad cut on the face. He came back with his face shattered. The thing came very quick.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you hear any command to cease firing?
A. I did not. I went to the rear of the cars I was standing on, and the soldiers were breaking back in my direction, and I did not notice what was going on in front after that. There was just one volley. The soldiers just emptied their muskets.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the result of the volley?
A. A panic on the hill side—every person ran from the hill side and the crossing.
Q. It dispersed the crowd, did it?
A. Yes.
Q. In what direction did they retire?
A. In all directions.
Q. What became of the soldier's then?
A. I left the crossing, and went from there to the telegraph office, and wrote some messages to the freight depot and shops, directing them to put on a heavy guard during the night. While I was there Mr. Watt came in, and told me that the mob had started for the arsenal. I telegraphed to the commandant to take care of our shops, and advised him to be on his guard. The message was delivered within five or ten minutes after it was sent.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was any actual violence used by the strikers to prevent the trains running on your road?
A. Our men were threatened.
Q. But there was no actual violence?
A. No.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. When you were running that engine yourself, what was the mob composed of—men that had been in your employ, or in the employ of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, or tramps? Describe the crowd?
A. They were strangers to me. I do not know them.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. I understood you to say that application was made to the civil authorities. What do you mean by that?
A. I did not say that application had been made to the civil authorities.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. If you were present when the first firing occurred, I wish you would give us a description of it—what it was started by, and what the condition of the crowd was at that time?
A. I was at the corner of Penn and Twelfth streets when the alarm was struck, 10.40 o'clock by city time, or a few minutes later. I saw a flash in the sky and heard the alarm, and hurried on up Penn street. I knew what it meant. There were some oil cars stored in the Pennsylvania yard at the time, and I saw it was the flash of an oil fire. I think about Twentieth street the fire commenced. I then went about a square, and I heard a torpedo explode, and I got to the next corner and saw the fire on Penn street, and on the side street.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. A railroad torpedo, you mean?
A. Yes; it made a noise similar to that. The engines were driving fast at the time. I went to the vicinity of the coke yards, and remained there until half past two or three o'clock in the morning.
Q. Did you go with the engines during this time?
A. No, I was walking. When I got up there, they were dropping the cars down to the cars that had already been set on fire—quite a crowd was around. The burning of the cars appeared to have commenced. People were passing with their arms full of dry goods and things of that kind. As fast as the cars were dropped down, they were set fire to. Every few minutes there would be a panic among them, and they would flee like wolves or sheep, but seeing that there was no danger, they would come back again. I remained there until three o'clock, and then walked to the shops to see if everything was quiet there. After I got there, I got a message from Colonel McKee, of the Oil City command, stating that he was on his way, but had no ammunition. I telegraphed to General Latta, and asked him where it could be got at some point on the road, before reaching the city. I did not get any answer. The wires were interrupted between the city and our place, and at four and a half o'clock, I started down to Union depot, to hunt up General Latta.
Q. On Sunday morning?
A. Yes, sir; I met a great many people coming from the vicinity of the Pennsylvania yards, all having more or less plunder. A great many of them were in liquor. I got to Union depot, I believe, at six and a half o'clock. I went up to General Latta, after getting to Union depot, and he told me he had some ammunition, and would give me some after a bit, for Colonel McKee's command. He appeared to be very much exercised over the condition of the troops at the round-house at that time. A short time after, Captain Breck came in and reported that General Brinton had broken cover and started for the country. I think he told General Latta and one or two others sitting in the hotel at the time. The general and the captain went up stairs, and after that I did not see them. I remained in the vicinity of our shops and the Union depot until twelve o'clock Sunday, and then went up among the mob. I went to see what the character of the crowd was, and to see if I knew any of them. There appeared to me to be about seventy-five or one hundred and fifty men that were organized. One man, particularly, I noticed with black whiskers with a stick in his hand that appeared to be the leader. They would go on and destroy a lot of cars and then meet apparently to consult. He would wave his stick, the mob would follow, and do as he directed. I saw them setting fire to the cars there. Such a hard looking set of people I never saw before. I did not recognize anybody that I had ever seen. Quite a number of them appeared to be in liquor. They had cleaned out everything down as far as what is called the "brewery switches."
Q. About what street is that?
A. About Fifteenth or Sixteenth street. One of them got up on a car and made a speech, and declared that, as near as I could judge from their actions—I could not hear their words—that the Union depot would be the next point affected. Two cars loaded with plunder were got into position and set fire to, and shoved up over the hill and down to the other cars on the other side. As fast as the gang appeared to make an advance, the plunderers kept ahead of them.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did these men appear to be railroad men?
A. No, sir; they were not railroad men. They looked to me like roughs of the lowest description. They had the vilest countenances I ever saw. One man, I noticed, was so intoxicated that he could hardly stand on his legs, but he would go in among the cars and do what a sober man could not do.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you make any effort to find out who the black-whiskered man was?
A. I recognized him as the leader of the party, and I would know his face again. If I should ever see him, I would recognize him. They appeared determined to drop the burning cars into the depot, and I went down and threw an engine off the track, and blocked the track so that they could not do that. A great many people were around at the time, and it was thought that by the time they reached the depot they would not have the courage to come in there. The police were there, and I did not think that they would undertake to fire it.
Q. How many police were there at that time?
A. Fifteen or twenty. They retired right in front of the mob.
Q. When they reached Union depot, how many did the mob number, that were actually engaged in the burning?
A. I cannot answer that. A great many people were around in the vicinity, and in the streets, and on the hill side, and all around—a great many people were there.
Q. You spoke of about seventy-five or a hundred?
A. They were followed by an army of plunderers. This gang appeared to be the center, and as they went along, the plunderers demolished everything that came in their way. After they found they could not drop any cars into the depot they walked right into the office, at the north end of the depot, and knocked the windows out, and presently there was a flash there, and in a few minutes the shed was on fire. After the depot was fired, I walked to Forty-third street to see how things were going. I returned after the elevator took fire. I saw from that position that it was on fire, and I commenced to have grave doubts whether they could check it—whether they could prevent the lower end of the town from burning.
Q. Did this gang of men fire property below the depot, or did that catch from the depot?
A. I was not in the vicinity of the depot when the property on the other side was fired, and I cannot answer that, nor when the elevator was fired.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. When you came back did you see this same gang?
A. The crowd was scattered then. The elevator was on fire, and the Pan Handle yards were on fire. I got word then that they were going to attack our property, and I started right to the shops, and took an engine and removed what property we had.
David Garrett, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the Twentieth ward of Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am an assistant train master.
Q. Of the Pennsylvania railroad?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you occupy that position in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. State what knowledge you have as to any dissatisfaction among the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in regard to wages prior to the 19th of July last?
A. I have no knowledge more than any person would have who has his wages reduced. The men spoke about the reduction of their wages, that it was a little hard. They talked to me about the order. I told them that we were all in the same fix, and tried to point out to them that the reduction was general—that the business of the company had become reduced, and I supposed that they thought it was necessary to make a reduction. Most of the men that I talked to on the subject seemed to be satisfied. They didn't feel good about it, but they didn't say that they would offer any resistance to a reduction, or that they would strike, or anything of that sort.
Q. That was after the ten per cent. reduction?
A. Yes; they talked about it some. Of course we had heard about the troubles on the Baltimore and Ohio, and had heard about the Trainmen's Union, and also heard about men withdrawing from that, and also about its being bursted up. What I think the cause of the trouble was the very light business that was doing. Then in June, when the reduction was made, we found we had a large surplus of men, and we reduced the force to suit about the volume of business doing then. In doing that, we had regard to the condition of the men. Those who were married we tried to retain, and those who had been a long time in the service we tried to retain, and occasionally if we had a man who could get along at something else, or who was in particularly good circumstances, we would discharge him, in order to keep some man who was not so well favored. That threw some men out of employment. Then on the 16th of July—that was the morning on which the new arrangement was to go into effect—the running of double-headers. That is, instead of taking two trains from Pittsburgh to Derry, with seventeen cars, we would run one train with thirty-four cars.
Q. Was the order issued on the 16th?
A. It was to take effect on the 19th. The order had been issued some time previously, and posted on the bulletin boards where the men could see it. When this order was posted up, the men would come, and I saw them looking at the bulletin boards. No one expressed any dissatisfaction. There had been some talk among the men that it would dispense with the services of quite a number, which, of course, we admitted it would, and the more so, from the fact that while formerly we were running men from Conemaugh, the company found it inconvenient to run trains to Conemaugh, and were making Derry the dividing point. We were running from Pittsburgh to Derry and back again. That would give the smaller portion of the run to the men on this end of the road, and, of course, a smaller number of men were required. But to fix that, the day previous to the strike I went out to Derry, and there had a consultation with Mr. Edward Pitcairn, who is the train master at Derry. We saw the difficulty, and tried to provide for it, by taking seven or eight crews, of four men to a crew, to run between Derry and Altoona. As we were getting along with a less number of men, at the other end they would require a greater number of men. That was on Wednesday, the day preceding the riot. We had the thing all arranged, as I thought. I came into Pittsburgh the next morning about nine o'clock, when one of the dispatchers told me on my arrival, that one of the trains had not gone out. I asked him the reason, and he said that the brakemen had refused to go out on the train. I asked him the number of men he had asked to go out, and he said quite a number—eighteen or twenty, perhaps more. I told him I would go out and talk with the men about the matter. I felt about that, that we had a large surplus of men, and if only a portion of the men were insubordinate and refused to run, it would relieve us from embarrassment. I had no idea that it would extend beyond that. I went out and found eighteen or twenty men, and asked them if they had any objections to go out. Some just declined to go out on double trains, and others said nothing. Of the men present, I couldn't get any to go. The conductors were willing to go. I conferred then with Mr. McCabe, and he suggested that we should get some of the yard men to man the trains. We called on several of them, and finally got three to go as brakemen. Preparation was made to start the train. I walked some distance in advance of the engine that was to take the train, and met some men coming along that seemed to be somewhat demonstrative, and among them one man very violent—one now undergoing his trial. He remarked to me—I said something about the switches—I cannot remember now what—and he remarked to me that no trains would go out, or something to that effect. I asked why, and he said that they had resolved not to let anything go out. I remonstrated with him, and said: "Hice, you have a perfect right to refuse to go out if you don't want to go out, but you have no right to interfere with others." He said it had got to be a question of bread or blood, and that they were going to resist. I left him, and then came to attend to some other matter towards the switches. I heard something behind me and turned around, and saw a considerable confusion. I saw links and pins being hurled at these yard men on the train. I saw one of them struck. I saw a link or pin falling from his person, and saw it hit him. I also saw men going on the engine. I came forward then and found no person on the engine at all, and found that the men we had expected to run the train all driven away. I found that we were defeated in getting the train out. It was not worth while to parley with the men at all. We had no force at all—no police at all—or not very strong. I went to the office of Mr. Watt, who was acting in the place of Mr. Pitcairn, who was absent, and it was suggested that inasmuch as a large quantity of live stock was at East Liberty, and it was important to get that away, that I should go there and anticipate any power that might be coming west, and put the cars away, and take the power and send the live stock away from East Liberty. I immediately did that, and went there on the first train I met. I went to Torrens, and at East Liberty I met a coal train, and I stopped the train and went to the conductor and told him what I wanted. I told him to put his cars in there and to take a train of live stock from East Liberty. I didn't tell him anything about the trouble in Pittsburgh. He went away and conferred with some person, and then came and told me that he declined to do that. I left him go. I then went to Torrens, not wishing to lose any time, and while there received a message from the superintendent's office telling me that two engines were on the way there and would soon arrive—two engines westward. I then received another message to make haste, that Hice and his crowd had started for Torrens to interfere with the live stock. I made all the haste I could. I went down to Gray's switches, and there waited the arrival of the two engines, took the cars from them, crossed the engines coming west over to the other track, adjusted the switches, and went on down. When I got down there, Hice and his party had just arrived.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. How did they get there?
A. I don't know. The distance is not very great. I don't know what time they started, and I don't know by what route. I rather think they walked up the track to Torrens. At that time, when we got back, the party was there and surrounding the engines. I got up on one of the engines and asked the engine man what was wrong. He said he couldn't take the stock. They said that their lives had been threatened if they moved the stock. I telegraphed to Pittsburgh, stating the situation of affairs, and that we couldn't do anything at all without we had more protection, and Pittsburgh told me, after a bit, that more police were coming—that there would be fifteen of them. They had made a requisition, I understood, upon the mayor, and that fifteen police were to come up. They were to come up on the Atlantic express, I think. About the time the Atlantic express was due, I went out to where the engines were standing, and backed up against the stock. I didn't tell the crowd or any person that I had information of any assistance coming, but I just remarked to them that we proposed now to commence moving that stock, and that those who were in no way concerned with the railroad, or who had no interest in the matter, except as lookers-on—that I would take it as a favor if they would retire, and give us room to work. There was a large crowd there. Just at that time, this same man Hice called out, they are going to bring the militia—the Duquesne Grays. He immediately called out and said, I want four good men. They came up to him, and he said, I want you to go to Pittsburgh and get out two thousand mill men. Four young men started—a couple of them were, I think, our own men, and a couple were not in our service. I can't say who they were. One little thing occurred before this conversation with Hice—before the Atlantic express came. I had gone some distance east to the telegraph office, and I found Hice there, and I got into conversation again about it, and I told him: "Hice, be careful not to do anything you will be sorry for." He said it is a question of bread or blood, and said, if I go to the penitentiary I can get bread and water, and that is about all I can get now. I saw it was no use to talk to him, and I left him. When the express came along it didn't have the force on that I expected. It had some men, but not enough for the emergency. A great many men came up on the train. We found that we couldn't move the stock. Mr. Watt had come up, and I called his attention to the situation. I suggested that we should move some of the stock by deceiving the men. That I would get two engines, and say I couldn't move the stock, and I might as well go on back, and that under pretense of shifting the stock on to the siding he should get it past the crowd, and run it to some point on the road—to Spring Hill, and that there I would take it with those two engines, and that, in the meantime, if he couldn't do that, that I would couple to a train of cars that had been brought from Wilkinsburg in the morning, and take it as far as Spring Hill, and if the stock didn't come would take it on through. After we started from Torrens with the engines, I told the conductor and men what I wanted to do—to couple on to the train at Wilkinsburg. The men seemed to have a little fear that the crowd would overtake us before we could get the train out. However, I told them to hurry up, and I succeeded in getting it out. We took it on as far as Spring Hill, and, while the engines were taking fuel and water, I told them to remain until I came back and gave a signal, and I walked on to Walls to ascertain whether or not the stock was coming. When I got to Walls I learned from Mr. Watt the stock was coming. I then went back, and, when the stock arrived, coupled on, and sent it out. That was the last train moved, and it was done by deceiving the men. I then returned to Pittsburgh. It was pretty near night. I found the crowd at Torrens was indignant at us deceiving them in moving the stock. Some of the stock couldn't be moved, and had to be unloaded. I then came to Pittsburgh, and I found that while I had been away that they had a great deal of trouble in the Pittsburgh yard. But I don't know anything that occurred in Pittsburgh that day from the time I left until six or seven o'clock that night. But I remained there then all that night.
Q. As train master, tell us how the traffic on your road for the three months prior to June 1, compared with the traffic during the same time of the year previous?
A. I can give my impression, that it was very much below the corresponding period of the year previous. My impression is, it was below. Of course, in that, I may be mistaken.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You judge from the number of trains and the amount of stuff you hauled?
A. Yes; our trade is peculiar. There are times when the through freight may be heavy, but at points east of Pittsburgh, the coal and other local business may be very light. We will start from Pittsburgh with an unusually heavy business, but it won't aggregate nearly as much when it arrives at Altoona, as on other occasions, when we start from Pittsburgh with a comparatively light business. I was present at the time of the firing of the troops, but about that, what I can say is about what Mr. King has said.
Q. If you were present at that time, however, you may state what you saw?
A. I was at Union depot when the troops arrived. I went to the outer depot, two blocks west of Twenty-eighth street. We kept ourselves advised by wire as to about the time the troops would move from Union depot to Twenty-eighth street. We were expecting that they would clear the track, and that then, if possible, we would get the trains started. We had a crew in readiness to go just as soon as they got protection enough to start. I remained on some gondolas there until the troops, with the Gatling gun, passed along up the track. Then I followed up. I didn't intend to go very close, but got much nearer than I had intended, and so got near enough to see the movements of the troops. I saw them form on Twenty-eighth street into what is called a square, and saw the confusion that Mr. King spoke about. I heard the shots very soon after that. I thought at first it was blank cartridges, but soon learned such was not the case.
Q. Have you any idea as to how many were hurt?
A. Seven, eight, or ten—and some killed.
Q. You saw this yourself?
A. I didn't see any myself. I saw them carrying people away very soon afterwards. I saw afterwards the man that Mr. King mentioned as having been hit in the face by a stone before the firing. While I was in the superintendent's office, after the firing, a report came that they were going to attack the arsenal, and also the superintendent's office. I afterwards went home and got my supper and returned. When returning, the mass of people at Twenty-eighth street was enormous. They were solid on both sides of the track. By the way, some soldiers were there, enough to keep the men off the track. I had intended to go up and walk to the superintendent's office, but found I couldn't do it with safety. I thought they possibly might want me, and I intended to go. I went to Union depot, and made an arrangement to get to the office. After that, I learned that the military had charge of everything. I staid at Union depot until ten o'clock, and left on the last train that went out. That was on Saturday night. About three or four o'clock in the morning I was awakened by a great deal of noise and hallowing, and saw a great many roughs passing my place, and heard wagons passing.
Q. Did they seem to be coming in wagons from a distance?
A. Yes; various wagons went past my house. It was three or four o'clock in the morning. It was getting daylight; and during all that day the people were carrying plunder past our house; and those same wagons returned during the afternoon loaded. I remained at home on Sunday, for the reason that they said they were going to commence at East Liberty and burn everything to Pittsburgh, and I thought that possibly my house might be burned.
Q. If you had succeeded in starting a train from Pittsburgh, would it have been able to get ten miles away.
A. All the trains that we started previous to, say, nine or nine and a half o'clock on Thursday, went through—went through all right.
Q. What do you mean by through?
A. To the destination, wherever it was.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. During this time, before the military arrived, was there any considerable effort made on the part of the police to protect you and your men and property?
A. No, sir; nothing at all equal to the emergency.
Q. What number of policemen were there in force, at any time, to protect you?
A. I cannot say that I ever saw a dozen. A small force of police were brought to the outer depot on Thursday, but it was after I had gone to Torrens, and I remained away the remainder of the day. It was after the time that we were trying to get out another train, when the men refused to let it go, and when Mr. Watt was struck.
Q. What were the police doing all this time?
A. I suppose the police were too weak in numbers.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. When you saw them they were inadequate to the emergency?
A. Yes; altogether.
Q. Up to Saturday night, any train that could have been started would have gone through to its destination?
A. No; only on Thursday. After Thursday, I think, no freight train could have gone through, because all the trains were stopped; and even the passenger trains were stopped at East Liberty and Lawrenceville.
Q. From the information that the railroad authorities had, they could not have run trains through to their destination?
A. I don't think so, after Thursday. The men allowed our trains to come west, but as fast as they came west they prevented them from going east.
Adjourned until Monday morning, at ten o'clock.