REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877.

I replied that I am, that I would. That dispatch I did not preserve a copy of. I afterwards received the following, second one from him:

"Mayor McCarthy:

You seemed to misunderstand my telegraph. I asked you if you were willing to assist me in having your man identified. There is no question about the fact. I can produce the evidence of a dozen respectable citizens of Philadelphia who witnessed the firing. By making the proper inquiries on your part, and by arresting all suspected, I can produce those to identify the guilty party. It was not true that the police of Pittsburgh were hooting and yelling at us openly at nearly every point.

R. M. Brinton,
Major General"

"R. M. Brinton, Major General:

"I will assist you in identifying or arresting any murderer who is on the police force, or on either side of the struggle."

I said on either side of the struggle, because I believed both sides committed murder, and I may say that I and six or eight of my policemen are now under bonds to answer the charge—a civil charge—for damages for arresting two men who were suspected as being engaged in shooting at the Philadelphia troops as they went out Penn avenue, out Butler street. Then I go on to say:

"By referring to the language of your first dispatch, you will see that the misapprehension was on your part, and not on mine."

Well, gentlemen, when the Philadelphia troops came back here, I sent out orders and got all the police who had been up there at that time together, to meet at nine o'clock in the evening. I saw by a newspaper article—I had forgotten who it was—but I saw by a newspaper article here that it was Lieutenant Cochran that I sent out to the Philadelphia troops, to tell Brinton that at nine o'clock that night the men would be all at the mayor's office, and for him to come with his evidence. Nine o'clock came and no person came—until ten o'clock we waited, and they were dismissed. I dismissed the men with orders to appear at nine o'clock the next morning, and sent word out to camp to General Brinton. If General Brinton requires me to state I will just quote from a little remark I made. I say here Cochran had reported to me that the Philadelphia men, for some reason or other, didn't think they could get here last evening. That was the reply of Cochran. Then I took it back until ten o'clock or nine o'clock next morning, when the police were there, together with a large number of citizens in the neighborhood of the station-houses, who were there at the time that the troops passed. The police unanimously, and the citizens unanimously all joined in the statement that on Penn street, between Twenty-sixth street and Twenty-seventh street, where the station-house is, and where the police were on the pavement, that at the time the troops passed the station-house there was no shooting, no disturbance of any kind whatever. That is the testimony of the police and of the citizens, given and sworn to upon that day, when I found the Philadelphia men didn't come to make good their word.

Q. You say the Philadelphia men did not come to make good their word. What did you expect of the Philadelphia men?

A. I believed the Philadelphia men to be as good as their word, as laid down here by General Brinton. Here is General Brinton's dispatch to me: "One of my men was murdered by your police force as we marched up Penn avenue, en route for Sharpsburg. The murderer can be identified by a dozen men of my command, although several others of your force discharged their pistol shots into my column while we marched up Penn avenue. Are you willing to assist me in arresting this murderer?" I expected General Brinton to come with his men and attempt to identify the murderers, as he alleged we shot at those troops as they were passing the station-house. He did not come with his men. An hour or so after all these parties left, two men came to the office; I did not see them myself, but my man at the office reported to me that two men came there, dressed like officers, who stated that they were officers in the Philadelphia regiment, and they repudiated the statement that the troops were fired on as they passed the station-house.

A. No, sir; I do not. I might be able to find out—I don't know whether I could or not. I have forgotten the names; but if that circumstance is sworn to at Philadelphia, I can produce one hundred men to disprove it.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, in Senate committee room No. 6. All members present except Mr. Reyburn.

Q. Were you present Saturday afternoon, July 24, when the communication was received by General Latta from General Brinton?

A. The first one was in the early part of the night. I couldn't fix the time of receiving any telegrams, or, in fact, any of the occurrences of the night.

A. I cannot give the nature. The first dispatch, however, was very discouraging, I remember that much. It related to the condition of his troops in the round-house, related to the supplies, subsistence, ammunition, and he went on, further, to say, my recollection is, that he considered part of his command as unreliable, and that one of his regiments was disposed to sympathize with the strikers—wouldn't fight with them, anyhow.

A. I think he named the Sixth regiment. We understood that to be the regiment referred to. Sometime afterwards, a second dispatch was received, in better character, and we were re-assured. The first one was very bad.

A. I think that the dispatches were brought through the lines by Sergeant Wilson of the Jefferson Cavalry. He came out in disguise.

Q. Do you recollect of General Matthews making any remarks when he received the first dispatch?

A. I couldn't say positively, but there was conversation. I was in the room, but didn't pay any attention to it myself.

Q. Did you know whether General Latta contemplated ordering General Brinton's command out of the round-house, prior to receiving that first dispatch?

Q. Was it a subject of conversation at all at his head-quarters, during the night?

A. Yes. There was considerable conversation as to that, when General Latta was dictating his last dispatch to General Brinton. There was a conflict of opinion about it.

Q. Was the question of the expediency of ordering the troops out, for the purpose of stopping the destruction of property and driving the rioters from the ground—from the railroad ground? Was that the subject of conversation?

A. I think not. I don't remember that. There was no conversation amongst us. We had no idea of ordering the troops alone—that detachment of troops. The general plan was to bring on the Philadelphia troops, at Torrens station, unite them with Guthrie, and march them down on the rear of the mob, and attack and disperse them.

Q. Can you tell us anything in relation to the dispatch that was sent by General Latta and General Brinton, Sunday morning, by Captain Aull, what knowledge you have of that dispatch, and what was done?

A. I don't think that I have any personal knowledge of that dispatch—don't think I saw it—and what I would give you would be hearsay about that. I have a recollection of a telegram to direct Brinton, I think, to join Colonel Guthrie.

A. Well, I couldn't say. I know he had his instructions, but whether I heard Latta give them to him, I don't know. I don't know what his instructions were.

Q. Do you know anything about any proclamations issued by the Governor, in relation to this riot?

A. I know very little more than the proclamation was issued. At least, I saw the proclamation signed by the Governor and myself, which, I have no doubt, was issued here, under the seal of the State, but I was not present at the time. I know nothing more, really, than you, gentlemen of the committee, yourself.

A. When the heads of departments leave, they generally leave blanks signed, to be used in case of an emergency, if they are required.

A. Yes, sir. I suppose the facts relating to that proclamation are already before the committee.

Q. Did you receive any communications from General Latta, or from any person connected with the department, prior to the issuing of the proclamation?

Q. All proclamations of the Governor are signed by the Secretary of the Commonwealth, are they not?

Q. The military orders of the commander in chief signed by the Adjutant General?

Q. Has the Secretary of the Commonwealth, or his deputy, authority, under general instructions, to issue proclamations, in the absence of the Governor?

A. Well, I don't know. I think I would assume that authority without any hesitancy, in case of necessity. Whether it would be ratified or not, I don't know.

A. Custom; yes, sir. I really don't remember a case where I have done so. I am not certain, but what I have, in a case when the Governor was not here, about the reduction of the sinking fund.

Q. Do you know anything about a request made by the civil authorities of Allegheny county on the Governor, for troops?

A. I received on the morning of Friday, I think the 20th of July—the riots were on the 21st—on the day before, about three o'clock in the morning before, I received a telegram from the sheriff of Allegheny county, including a telegraph to Harrisburg, making the request. He stated that he inclosed it to me for my information.

A. I forwarded the telegram to the Adjutant General, stating that I had received it, and I suggested that the major general commanding the Pittsburgh division furnish the necessary troops.

A. I think by the same messenger. It was from the sheriff of Allegheny county, and I replied to him that I received his telegram.

Q. Did you see General Pearson as he returned from the round-house or that vicinity?

A. Yes; I was in General Latta's room that evening with General Pearson and one or two other gentlemen, and he came in.

A. I didn't understand that he was formally relieved of his command, but I know he was obliged to leave.

A. The mob was said to be in search of him, and surrounding his house, and destroying his property. There was some conversation passed between us. I said I thought he was of no use there.

A. Yes, I saw General Brown in the early part of the night, I think. General Brown came in when the Pittsburgh troops were relieved.

Q. Did you know anything about his disbanding his command and sending them home?

Q. Would you consider it justifiable or legal to issue a proclamation in the absence of the Governor in emergencies of this kind?

Q. Did you regard it proper for the Adjutant General to call out troops or furnish troops for the suppression of the riot in the absence of the Governor?

A. That is a question I was not considering. There was nothing improper here when he had direct telegraphic communication with the Governor, and had authority to do so.

Q. In your estimation, would it require special instructions from the Governor to call out the troops?

A. I think he should act under general instructions. The Governor is the commander-in-chief of the troops.

Q. Did you receive any general instructions prior to the departure of the Governor for the West, as to what would be done in case of an emergency?

A. No, sir, I think not. I understood such authority was given in relation to troops to the Adjutant General. I didn't feel that I was vested with any special authority.

Q. In forwarding the demand that was made by the sheriff for troops to the Adjutant General, did you say anything to the Adjutant General about issuing any proclamation?

A. In my telegram to the Adjutant General was simply a suggestion that the major general commanding the Pittsburgh division—I didn't know who he was at the time—should furnish the troops.

A. This is my proclamation—the first one. Both are proclamations of mine, and this is an order. [Indicating.]

A. The first proclamation was placarded over town—both these proclamations was placarded over town by eight o'clock Tuesday morning, the 24th. I arrived here on the 23d, about seven o'clock in the evening. These were all printed in posters.

Q. And the citizens were all summoned in accordance, or came out in accordance with this proclamation, I suppose—on the demand made by you in this proclamation?

A. Yes, they did, a number of them, in answer to my call. Before this was published I had gathered them up—parties who were excited, and ready to take hold.

PROCLAMATION.

Sheriff's Office, Harrisburg, Pa.

Whereas, For the past two days the peace and good order of the county have been disturbed and grave apprehensions exist lest injury be done;

And whereas, The duty rests upon me to preserve the peace and promote tranquillity;

Now, therefore, I, William W. Jennings, high sheriff of the county of Dauphin, do hereby enjoin all persons to remain quietly at their homes or places of business, to avoid gathering upon the streets and highways, thus by their presence keeping alive the excitement which pervades the community, and to further the restoration of good order, I charge upon parents to prevent the half grown lads over whom they have control from frequenting the streets.

And I hereby announce my resolute determination, with the aid of special deputies whom I have appointed, and the posse which I have summoned to preserve the peace and protect the person and property of the people within my bailiwick, and I hereby call upon all good and law abiding citizens to assist me and those acting with me to enforce the law and maintain good order.

Given under my hand this 23d day of July, A.D. 1877.

Wm. W. Jennings,
Sheriff.

Notice to Law and Order Posse.

The chief engineer of the fire department of the city of Harrisburg, having issued an order specifying to what alarms the several fire companies shall respond, the following companies of the law and order posse, for the purpose of preserving good order in the event of any fire alarm, will repair to the place designated by the alarm as follows:

Company A to Nos. 4, 5, 7, 12, 13, 41, 42 for the Friendship Fire Company.

Company C to Nos. 6, 21, 24, 31, 32, 61 for the Hope Fire Company.

Company I to Nos. 5, 6, 7, 23, 41, 61, for the Citizen Fire Company.

Company B to Nos. 7, 12, 13, 41, 42 for the Paxton Fire Company.

Companies D, F, and G to Nos. 21, 23, 24, 31, 32 for the Good Will Fire Company.

Company H to Nos. 5, 7, 41 for the Mt. Pleasant Hose Company.

The other companies of the posse will hold themselves in readiness for orders.

Wm. W. Jennings, Sheriff.

Sheriff's Office, Harrisburg, July 24, 1877.

Joseph F. Knipe, Commanding Co. A.

William K. Alricks, Commanding Co. B.

Charles Snyder, Commanding Co. C.

J. B. Boyle, Commanding Co. D.

George G. Boyer, Commanding Co. E.

C. A. Wilhem, Commanding Co. F.

Isaiah Reese, Commanding Co. G.

Law and Order Posse

Will report with their respective commands at the Court-House at two o'clock.

The posse will hold themselves in readiness to respond to two taps of the court-house bell at any time prior to that hour. Other companies will be designated and assigned to duty as the public exigency may necessitate.

W. W. Jennings,
Sheriff.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at eight o'clock, P.M., in Senate committee room No. 6.

Q. State whether you accompanied Colonel Norris on Sunday morning, the 22d, to General Brinton's command?

A. We overtook General Brinton north of the Allegheny river—north-east of the Allegheny river—about a mile, I think, above Sharpsburg, on the bank of a ravine running up a hill. I don't know the name of the street. I was trying to remember it this afternoon, but I have forgotten the name of the road.

A. I can't exactly state the time precisely—it was in the morning. We paid very little attention to time, having been very busily engaged all night and through the morning. We started, I suppose, between nine and ten o'clock, if my recollection serves me right—some place about that time.

A. Yes, sir; with the exception of the time that I had been detailed for service outside of the city limits. Of course, where I went to from the Union depot was under orders of the Adjutant General.

Q. At whose instance did you and Colonel Norris go in pursuit of General Brinton?

A. I was directed by the Adjutant General to accompany Colonel Norris to the office of General Brinton.

Q. Did you hear the Adjutant General give Colonel Norris any orders to tell to General Brinton?

Q. When you overtook General Brinton, state what conversation took place between Colonel Norris and General Brinton?

A. After passing through the city—through Penn avenue—we overtook General Brinton at the rear of his command, then marching very rapidly to the north. We drove partially through the left of his command, got out of our carriage, and walked the balance of the way to the front. Then General Brinton ordered a halt of his troops, and Colonel Norris then told him that the Adjutant General requested that he would turn back, and form a junction with Colonel Guthrie at Torrens station. Do you want me to go on and repeat the whole conversation?

A. They talked some time. I stayed with them. There were some officers of General Brinton's command with him, whom I was not personally acquainted with. General Brinton replied that his troops had been without food for twenty-four hours. That he had been fired upon from every corner and street car in the city. That he intended to go back into the country until he could get a position in which he could intrench himself and protect his men. And he furthermore added, that he would be God damned if he would go back into the city of Pittsburgh.

A. Alongside of him. We were all sitting down. There had been a halt of the command made, and we sat down on the banks of a stream that ran along the public road.

Q. Did Colonel Norris deliver it as an order coming from the Adjutant General, or did he state that Captain Aull had had such an order?

A. Not that I know of. I can go back in my testimony and mention the fact that we met Captain Aull.

A. We met Captain Aull at the eastern side of the arsenal, on Penn avenue. He stopped our carriage on, I think, the eastern side—the furthest extremity of the arsenal, on Penn avenue—stopped our carriage, and asked us where we were going. I told him we were after Brinton's troops. He said nothing at all about an order that he had.

Q. Let me ask you the question over again. Did Colonel Norris tell General Brinton that Captain Aull had an order for him? Did Colonel Norris repeat the substance of the order which Captain Aull had?

A. Not that I know of. Captain Aull's name was not mentioned, and from the simple fact that we met Captain Aull, and he knew we were on the way to General Brinton—if Colonel Norris knew he had an order from the Adjutant General, it was not my business to know anything about it. I was simply directed to accompany the colonel on business.

Q. Did Colonel Norris state to General Brinton that the Adjutant General had requested him to deliver the order to return and form a junction with Colonel Guthrie?

A. As I said before, Mr. Chairman, Colonel Norris said to General Brinton that the Adjutant General had directed him to turn his column back, and pass the Allegheny river, making a junction with Colonel Guthrie, at Torrens station. Stated that fact, that the Adjutant General requested him to do so.

Q. And requested Colonel Norris to deliver that order to General Brinton—did he inform him—so inform?

A. Of course. He came direct from the Adjutant General, acting under orders of the Adjutant General.

A. Yes. That is what he was doing. That is what took me there. The Adjutant General directed me to accompany Colonel Norris. He was going on official business.

A. That the Adjutant General directed him to turn his command back and form a junction with Colonel Guthrie, of the Eighteenth regiment, at or near Torrens.

A. As I told you before, I don't remember anything about time; but when I got back there—when we got out of the carriage—we started upstairs to the room which the Adjutant General occupied, and was then informed that they had changed the head-quarters from the Union Depot hotel to the Monongahela house. I suppose that might have been one o'clock.

A. Of Sunday. At that time the fire was coming down the track towards the hotel. Colonel Norris went before I did to the Monongahela house, and I followed him shortly afterwards.

Q. Were you present when Captain Aull received the orders from the Adjutant General?

Q. Did General Latta order Colonel Norris to proceed with any orders to General Brinton?

Q. When you reached General Brinton, what reason did he give for not returning to the city of Pittsburgh or Sharpsburg?

A. I stated before that he complained that his command had been without food for twenty-four hours, that he had been fired on from every street corner in the city, that he was anxious to get to the open country, where he could entrench himself, and take up a position to protect his men. He declined to return and make any junction with any troops, or to have anything to do with any troops.

Q. Did Colonel Norris ask him to fall back to Sharpsburg, near the railroad, where he could be supplied with ammunition and food?

A. I think not. If you will allow me to make a remark here, that at that time trains on the Valley road I believe had been stopped. On our road towards Brinton, after we had crossed the Allegheny river, we found the West Pennsylvania road was running, and I then remarked to Colonel Norris that if Brinton would come back to the river, I would see that rations were sent up the West Pennsylvania road, knowing that we could provide his troops with rations.

A. He was requested to go to Torrens station, or to go as near Torrens station as he possibly could.

Q. Was he present during the time that this talk occurred between Colonel Norris and General Brinton?

A. That I cannot say. There were several of General Brinton's staff with him; but when we halted we left the line of the troops, and went down to the banks of this stream I speak of. There was several of his staff officers, and some of the colonels, whose names I am not acquainted with.

Q. How many of his staff officers were present at the time this conversation occurred?

A. I suppose there were five or six gentlemen present scattered around. Whether they were listening to the conversation or not I cannot pretend to say.

A. I suppose twenty minutes. I know it was a longer time than I wanted to stay. I was anxious to get back.

A. I might have been sitting on a log or rock. I know I sat down on the grass. It was very dusty and very hot, and we all took a drink out of the stream.

A. Yes; sitting scattered around, some standing. You know how it is yourself, colonel, when you have a consultation with officers.

Q. Did Colonel Norris make any other business known to General Brinton, except this one matter?

Q. This one matter was all—the business matter that you heard talked over between them?

A. So far as I was concerned. That was the business that took me out there, that was all I know.

A. Yes; walked back nearly to the Sharpsburg bridge, and found our carriage, and returned through the mob at considerable trouble.

A. Yes; Colonel Norris and myself had some considerable difficulty, and were stopped on our road back by a mounted guide, or vidette, or something—I don't know who he was, or what he was after. He followed us for some considerable time, and came up and addressed us.

Q. What was your understanding of the nature of the business that you pursued Brinton? For what purpose did you pursue Brinton?

A. My understanding was, that he was to go back and form a junction with Colonel Guthrie, and march into the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. Was that your understanding before you left the head-quarters of General Latta?

A. By being in consultation with the Adjutant General and the balance of the staff during the entire night.

A. Yes, sir; we were consulting together, of course, about the most feasible means or measures—what to do with this exigency there. If you remember, we were but a handful of men ourselves, and there all night long. Could not get our troops into Pittsburgh, wires were cut, lines of railroad were stopped, and our great anxiety was to get as many troops as possible into the city to protect the city. The idea was, this first division would make a junction—that the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments having disbanded, you might say virtually disbanded. Having left the Eighteenth regiment at three o'clock in the morning, it was our desire to get the First division form a junction with the Eighteenth regiment, and come into the city to protect property which was then on fire.

Q. Where did Brinton say he was going to when he was asked to return, and refused to?

A. He said he was going to the open country, where he would entrench, and take up a position to protect his troops. Whether he was going to Butler county or further north, I do not know. That was his remark—that he was going to the open country. Where he found that open country is more than I know, if he ever did find it. We did hear that he was marching to Philadelphia.

Q. Did General Brinton say anything that would lead you to think that he did not recognize Colonel Norris as an officer?

Q. Did he make any remarks to that effect, that led you to think he did not recognize him?

The committee met, at the call of the chairman, in Senate committee room No. 6. All present except Mr. Larrabee. Mr. Lindsey in the chair.

A. Yes; I was last secretary, and am still quarter-master, of the Sixth regiment of infantry; but during the commotion acted as brigade quartermaster and commissary, on the staff of General Loud, commanding the Second brigade of the First division.

A. Yes; in the first expedition that started, and remained with the division until it returned in August. Present for duty all the time.

Q. On Saturday evening, state where you were—what your position was, on Saturday evening of the troubles at Pittsburgh?

A. I was on duty with the brigade in the yards of the company, between the Union Depot hotel and the round-house, engaged in overlooking the line of the men, which kept back the crowd from that portion of the company's property.

Q. How extensive was the fire in and about the round-house at the time you went out?

A. At the time the troops commenced to march out, there had been considerable burning of the buildings which we occupied, some of which had been put out, and re-kindled by the burning cars that were run down against the building. That happened two or three times. We thought it was impossible to keep the fire from spreading, and decided to abandon the building. At the time the troops were going out, all the buildings were on fire, and in some of them the fire had got very extensive; so much so, that I felt hot when I went through the last door.

A. Didn't go into the arsenal grounds, and didn't witness the interview between Brinton and Buffington. At that time, I was engaged in re-forming the troops. They had been broken up by the killed and wounded.

A. Yes; when Colonel Norris overtook us beyond Sharpsburg, I was between the two brigades, the first brigade was marching in the rear, some of them assisting the men in charge of the Gatlings, dragging them up the hill. The other brigade had halted to give them time to catch up, and Major Norris arrived in a carriage or a hack, accompanied by some other party whom I didn't know, and Norris not recognizing me, stuck his head out of the side of the hack and told his driver to stop, and asked where General Brinton was. I told him a little further in advance, and I would go and show him, and went up with him about one hundred yards further, and found General Brinton sitting beside of the road, waiting for the troops to close up.

A. Walked with him. Walked hastily to him, found him waiting there, and he expressed great gratification to find the general again, they being old personal friends, and showed a good deal of feeling in the matter, and seemed very much exhausted and excited and worn out, evidently with loss of sleep and over-exertion, and the excitement of the occasion. Seemed almost dazed in his appearance by the state of affairs. He immediately inquired of General Brinton, what he proposed to do, and where he was going, and how much he had suffered. The general told him how he had got along. He had got out that way in order to find a place where supplies could reach us, and feed the men and get some supplies to feed the troops and get a little rest. They were completely exhausted with want of sleep and food. Colonel Norris assented to that, as about the only thing that could be done, and asked Brinton what he wanted him to do. Repeated the question several times in the course of the conversation: what do you want me to do, stay with you or go back and see what I can do outside. The General said there was nothing he wanted so much as provisions. That was the substance of the conversation. There was nothing in the form of an order given. The whole conversation was a discussion as to what had best be done, and what he, Brinton, intended to do, and what he wished Norris to do for him to help him. He had arrived there with the impression that we had suffered much more than we had.

Q. Did the gentleman who was with Colonel Norris get out of the carriage and accompany you up to where General Brinton was?

A. He didn't accompany him. He may have got out of the carriage afterwards. I never noticed, after Norris got out of the carriage. I never saw him, to my knowledge.

A. No, sir. He might have been a short distance in the rear, following us up. I didn't see him. He was not close to us. There was a few officers gathered around. I didn't see anybody else.

A. Our division staff officers. And General Loud was there at about the time the conversation commenced. I think General Matthews joined us afterwards. There was several of the staff there, and I was there, by authority of the position which I occupied on the staff, ready to receive any instructions that might be given.

Q. Was the division all right when Colonel Norris and you overtook General Brinton?

A. The brigade that was marching in advance was halted, waiting for the other to close up; the other was staying back in order to give the men with the Gatling guns time to get up the hill—the brigade in the rear wouldn't go on and leave the men with the guns back there unprotected. We had to halt several times, during our march, on that account. Halted the head of the column, and let the others close up.

Q. Did General Brinton and Colonel Norris sit down and have a conversation together, upon a bank or a log? Do you recollect that?

A. I don't think they exactly sat down. I think they surrounded, or stood around, a log or stone, with one foot on it, or grouped together—pretty close together—and four or five of us lounged around, waiting for those to close up. I couldn't specify the exact position I was in. There was nothing said without my hearing it, unless some whispering, and I didn't notice any.

A. Some little distance back of where we were. The driver came up close to us, when Colonel Norris went to get in again. The carriage approached us. I don't know exactly the time; and he went away.

Q. Did Colonel Norris say anything about Captain Aull's having an order for General Brinton?

A. I didn't hear Captain Aull's name mentioned. Never heard of such a man until long afterwards.

Q. Did he say anything to General Brinton about returning and joining Colonel Guthrie at Torrens?

A. I didn't hear anything about joining him. General Brinton asked questions about where the other troops were. Talked to Norris, and made inquiries where the other troops were, and why they didn't come to his relief, and how disappointed they were that they didn't come, and matters of that kind.

Q. Did he tell Colonel Norris that General Latta had given an order to Captain Aull.

A. I was not more than four paces away all the time they were together. If anything was said that I didn't hear, it must have been purposely said in an undertone to avoid being overheard.

Q. Do you recognize Major Stewart here as being the man who came up with Colonel Norris?

A. No, sir; I didn't recognize him. If that was the man, he looked very different on that occasion.

A. He must have kept in the background—might have kept back behind us—didn't crowd up into the group.

A. Didn't hear anything of the kind going on. There appeared to be no effort to conceal what they were saying from any of the staff. They talked above an ordinary tone of voice.

Q. Have you given all the conversation that took place as near as you recollect it?

A. I couldn't give the exact wording of the conversation, as I never expected to be questioned about it; but the whole tone and manner of the conversation was as I have stated—asking for information on both sides, and an expression of disappointment on the part of General Brinton, why the troops had not joined him, his intentions as to procuring rest and food for his troops, and his desire, in answer to Colonel Norris' question what he should do, that Norris should go back and assist in getting provisions to him, and if there had been any order given it should certainly have been made known to me at once.

Q. Will you state to this committee what transpired with the troops during that night in the round-house, and what took place there during the night—about their going out of the round-house—you were there. I believe you said that you were about the last man leaving it, didn't you?

Q. If you please, just state to this committee what transpired during the night about their leaving the round-house, and what condition the troops were in when they left it, and what condition the round-house was in?

A. Commencing with after we were stationed in the round-house, the mob commenced to gather around, and, in a short time, they began to fire pistols, and throw stones into the windows, smashing all the windows, and breaking the furniture inside with the missiles they threw in. Shot the sentinels at the gate, wounded other men inside, most of them not seriously. We didn't know at that time whether they were seriously injured or not. Finally, a large number made their appearance with muskets, and commenced firing with rifle balls.

A. Saturday evening about dusk. That had begun to get right hot, balls commenced to come in very thick and heavy, and some of the rioters emboldened by our not returning the fire, which we were ordered by General Pearson not to, had come up to the gates pointing out at the head of Twenty-eight streets, and commenced sticking their pistols through the gates, and shot two sentries stationed there.

A. Yes; they shot those two men. They were dragged away by their comrades. Still they would not allow us to fire. While this was going on, we staff officers busied ourselves in making preparations for the slaughter of the crowd, which we thought was bound to come, and was the proper thing to do to extinguish the rioters, and stationed soldiers at the different windows, and got the artillery in proper position—brass pieces and two Gatlings—gave instructions to the infantry not to fire until the artillery opened, knowing, of course, the artillery wouldn't fire without orders from proper authority. When the fire got pretty hot and the sentries were shot down, General Brinton got pretty warm about it, and insisted upon being allowed to fire, and went up to one of the offices where General Pearson made his head-quarters.

A. Went to General Pearson. I followed him in, and he explained the necessity of being allowed to open fire on the rioters, that he could not stand this thing any longer, that the men were being shot down in cold blood, and now was the time; and Pearson says, "No, no; we must hold on a little longer; the thing must quiet down a little; don't let us have any more bloodshed"—some such thing as that. General Brinton replied, that it was only getting worse, the longer we put off the worse it would be, and Pearson said, "No; we might kill more innocent people. There might be some innocent women and children killed," and made replies of that kind to justify himself in not allowing the firing, which the staff officers standing by—I think about four in number were present besides the general—they were of opinion it ought to be done, and still he would not allow it, and several of us made some remarks on the subject—several of the staff officers.

A. They were to the effect, that if we were going to do any shooting, now is the time to do it, and the remark I made to him was, if we were going to kill anybody—at first I said there were no women and children in that crowd.

A. I made this to General Pearson, in the presence of General Brinton and some two or three or four other officers.

A. I addressed General Pearson, right over General Brinton's shoulder—alongside of him. My rank did not justify it, but my old army rank did, and I presumed to advise him. Says I, "If we are going to do any killing, these are the men to kill. There are no women and children—they are all active rioters;" and he replied, "No, don't fire. You do not know who you will hurt; the artillery will shoot clear through the crowd." Just at that time the men in charge of the Gatling gun again moved it nearer the gate, and he saw the motion outside, or heard the wheels of the gun, and he jumped up and went to the window and motioned not to fire. "Don't fire, don't fire, don't fire," he said; "if they fire, the balls might shoot some innocent woman on a doorstep a mile away down street." That disgusted me so, I sneeringly remarked, if they were afraid of killing people so far off as that, let us fire with infantry, that won't hurt any a mile away, by shooting out of a second story window; and he said, "No, no; don't fire; it will all quiet down; you will kill some innocent people." Then I turned away in disgust, and left him. He went down stairs, and was about three quarters of the opinion to go down in the shadow of the building and give the command to fire anyhow. I changed my mind, for fear that the Pittsburgh troops might be coming around the corner. I am sorry afterwards that I did not give the order.

A. I should have opened fire with every weapon we had, at just about dusk, from the most available points at the time that General Brinton asked him to allow him to do so. The mob was so dense at that time they could hardly have got out of each others way. They were composed of very different material from the mob at Twenty-eighth street, where the first conflict occurred, the better class having disappeared, and the worst came to the front. The criminal classes, vagrants, bummers, and tramps of every kind, and such men as we call night owls—never seen in day time, were conspicuous in front, urging each other on. A class of the population that would benefit the community by fertilizing the soil. I think at that time, if we had killed those men, it would have silenced the whole riot.

Q. As a military man and having military experience, do you believe that General Brinton had force enough there to have cleared that track and taken possession of the railroad property.

A. At that time, if we had acted at that time, at dusk, we would had no more trouble.

Q. Do you believe that if General Brinton had the privilege to have let his command fire on that mob, could he have taken possession of the track and of the railroad property?

A. Yes; if General Pearson had allowed us to fire at the time General Brinton wished to do so, we would have destroyed the mob, and could have taken possession of anything around that neighborhood. All that would have been left of the mob would not have made any fight.

Q. I understand you to say in your testimony, that the round-house was on fire before General Brinton's command left it?

A. Yes; all the buildings. We not only occupied the round-house, but several other buildings that form a yard between them.

A. There were shops. There is a round-house, and engine houses, and machine shops, and there was a wood-working shop, and a car repair shop, and an upholstery shop, and then the company's offices. They are all connected together, and form a small yard in between them.

A. One came in direct contact with the round-house, or within two or three feet of it, and another within ten feet of it, and there was a space wide enough for two teams to pass between them. We had artillery in this yard and in towards the gates, and the different detachments of troops occupied the different buildings—men were stationed at the windows.

Q. One more question, and I believe I am done. What kind of discipline were the troops under while in the round-house?

A. I considered, for militia, uncommonly good discipline. They obeyed every order I heard given. I will say this: very much to my surprise, from the time I left Philadelphia, there never was an officer or soldier under me that refused to obey an order I gave him. Further than that, I would say, their obedience to the order not to fire, under the aggravating circumstances in the round-house and on the street the next day, when they were fired at constantly with pistols, was one of the most remarkable exhibitions of good discipline I ever witnessed in all my military experience. That is a test of discipline.

Q. Do you know of any arrangement, or any effort made, to furnish the troops with provisions at Torrens station, or at any other place, after you left the round-house?

A. The first I knew about the provision business, was what I have said about Colonel Norris and General Brinton talking, and then, again, in the evening, when Major Barr overtook us, near the poor-house. He was sent back to arrange about provisions, and we got provisions in the night. We got some provisions at the poor-house.

Q. What was the messenger's name in the carriage with you—that rode in the carriage with you? Did you not say there was a party rode in the carriage, when you met General Brinton? Who was with Colonel Norris?

A. I do not know who the gentleman was that was with Major Norris. I was not acquainted with him, and never saw him before. Do not know anything about it.

A. Did not see him get out of the carriage. I could not say positively that he got out of the carriage at all. He might have done so. I did not look back to see.

Q. Did you say that the troops had orders not to fire upon the men that were following them, firing, on Sunday morning.

A. That was in order not to bring on a conflict as long as we could avoid it—to pay no attention to them. They were firing with pistols, and I did not reply to them, until they commenced to fire with rifles—a number of men.

A. I do not know who the orders came from. I got orders from my brigade commander, General Loud.

A. It was not so much on the mob following, as people on the sidewalk, and in the doors and windows of the houses, firing with small pistols?

A. After a time, when the rioters in different places, under cover, generally, at the windows, and behind signs, and around corners of buildings, commenced firing with rifles, then we returned that fire. In some cases the men standing on the sidewalk deliberately pulled out pistols, and fired at the rear of the column, just as we got by there. In one case I saw a man standing within four feet of a policeman on one side of him, and a squad of policemen, about ten or twenty feet on his other flank—saw this man, who was in citizen's dress, take a revolver and fire into our ranks, and no reply was made to him.

A. One shot I know took effect. They fired just as the rear of the column was getting by.

A. A group of them standing there. It was a municipal building. I think it must have been a fire station from the appearance of it. I looked back—we had just got by—and I judge, from the appearance of the building in Philadelphia, that it was a fire station. I was told since that it was. Those policemen were in uniform—quite a number of them—certainly seven or eight. There might have been a dozen of them, and no large crowd near to interfere with them in case they had chosen to arrest the man. I heard other firing at the same time, which, I believe, has been testified to by others as being done by policemen. I did not actually hear a policeman fire. There was more than one man fired—firing from the other side. I noticed this one man, particularly.

A. Some from sidewalks, houses, and doorways and cellars, from down street, in our rear, men from the corners of the streets we had just passed from behind projecting signs, in front of stores, boxes in front of stores. Saw some of them shoot.

A. Those that fired from the rear were firing with muskets. All that I saw fire from doorways were pistols. Those from the windows were partly muskets and partly pistols.

A. Just standing on the curb-stone—that would naturally put them in line—they did not appear to be drawn up purposely.

A. They went out in as good order as from parade—regular formation. The only men out of place were three sharp shooters I had under my charge in the upper story of the building to keep men away from the cannon in the street. I was ordered to keep that gun quiet until the troops got out of the building. I had a detachment of men there that I held until nearly all the troops went out, and then dismissed all but three of them to rejoin their companies, and those three men remained out there Sunday until the last moment, and I got down opposite the passage-way through the building, and as the last file of men marched out of the building—the last file of the division marched out—I signaled for them to fire and come down. I fired at the corner of the building around which the rioters were sharp-shooting, to get at the cannon. It chipped off the corner of the building, and we made a run for it and got off before they made a shot at us, and the building that it was from was blazing at the time.

A. The round-house and this office building, smoke pouring from the building at the time.

Q. Could you have remained in that round-house for any length of time after the time you retired, in your opinion?

A. Ten minutes afterwards every man's clothes would have been burnt off him if he had stayed there. As we marched around we made a sort of half circle. We went out Twenty-fifth street afterwards, went north to Penn street, and then east along Penn street, and as we passed Twenty-sixth, Twenty-seventh, and Twenty-eighth opposite the buildings, a square away, we saw the buildings, and that the fire had made great progress. The buildings were in complete blaze. Could not have stayed there ten minutes.

A. We had very little ammunition then. During the night or just towards morning, I went around and made inquiry among the men and found most of them had from three to seven cartridges left. Here and there I found a man who had a large number, one man as many as twenty-eight, that had been obtained by some sharp practice—he would not tell me how. He would chuckle over it because he was an old soldier and knew how to take care of it.

Q. Was there a considerable amount of men that followed you as you retired from the round-house out Penn avenue?

A. When we looked back at some of the street corners, quite a crowd would make their appearance. They would not follow directly on the street, they would run down side streets and come up cross streets and come up on the corner at us. If we made a show to fire they would disappear—they would seem to follow the streets parallel with Penn street.

A. A short distance east of Sharpsburg, on the hill-side, in the edge of the timber, I think, about a mile from Sharpsburg. I do not know the exact distance.

Q. He got out of the carriage and walked along with the general. How far did he march with your command before he stopped?

A. General Brinton was resting at the side, on the slope of the hill overlooking the stream. He sat down on something at the side of the hill. Colonel Norris approached and he got up to meet him. General Brinton had been marching at the head of the column, and halted at the head of the column, in order to get time for the guns to pull up.

A. The leading brigade was resting. The other was marching to overtake the leading one. On account of difficulty in hauling the guns, quite a gap intervened between one brigade and the other.

Q. Did Colonel Norris walk with General Brinton with his command for any distance?

A. When the brigade with the guns overtook us the order was given for the whole column to move forward. By that time Brinton and Norris closed their conversation, and we walked along a short distance. We all walked along together a little ways talking, and he decided to go back, and the carriage turned around and Norris got in and rode back.

A. I could not state the exact distance. I do not remember the exact distance. It was not a great distance. Did not pay much attention to that.