REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877.

Contrast this with the ninety cents of the poor brakeman. But then, what is the poor laboring man? Let the following real occurrence tell:

While circulating among the strikers at the outer depot, the reporter found a few of the men willing enough to tell their grievances. One said: "When Vice President Cassatt and General Manager Frank Thomson were at the Altoona shop, Cassatt remonstrated with Thomson against any further reduction. 'Why,' said Cassatt, 'the men cannot buy butter for their bread.' 'Butter,' said Thomson, 'what do they want with butter, let them make dip.' The reduction was made," continued the complaining striker, and whether the men have been living on dip or not, it is very evident from the belligerent feeling displayed here to-day, that they can fight on dip. "Yes," continued the man, in a cold, bitter tone, which showed plainly how deeply, how plainly, the cold-hearted insult…. "Mr. Frank Thomson drives his tandem team and draws his big salary, whilst we must do double work at half pay."

The officials can build palaces, the laborer can rent a hovel. The one can roll along in the bustling splendor of a four-in-hand, the other cannot hide the burnt and frost-bitten foot. These railroad authorities can afford salaries that will secure the costliest luxuries and sustain an apish aristocracy, that cannot extend the salary to meet the commonest necessaries of life, to the beggared, starving, crushed laborer and his family. All these magnates will talk of the impossibility of running business without further curtailing the wages of the poor laborer. Arrogant impudence! Unbearable tyranny! Why, it has come to this, that labor is servitude! That a poor man must delude himself to satisfaction at the thought of starving, and respectfully take a pittance called wages. The millions must stand off and die smilingly, and look pleasurably at the outstretched arms of a few like Tom Scott grasping, robbing, paralyzing, crushing our industries, even our lives. Capital has raised itself on the ruins of labor.

The laboring class cannot, will not stand this longer. The war cry has been raised, and has gone far and wide. It will not confine itself to the narrow, nor even long stretch of the railroads. Labor will assert itself. It must have its equality, and that it will, sooner or later, amicably, it is desirable, forcibly, if necessary. Certainly rebellion against lawful authority is never lawful, but the principle that freed our nation from tyranny will free labor from domestic aggression.

The witness: The first page there was our reporters. The head-lines I do not know anything about. I went to bed that morning at half-past four, and those head-lines were put in after.

A. Yes, sir; but the reports themselves I believe to be correct, and I believe as fair a statement as has been made of the occurrences. I regret this; but I believe they are as fair a statement as could be had. I know they were truthful—there was no object in misrepresenting them, and the exasperating state of troubled feeling, after shooting down and killing twenty-two citizens of Pittsburgh—men and women—would have induced any community to have felt the same way as we did.

A. Legally, I am responsible; morally, I am not, but legally I am. I do not shirk any responsibility.

A. I did not. I would rather the committee would not press the question as to who did it. It is not material to the issue anyhow. It was done by a young man in my employ at that time, after I had gone to bed. I did not know anything about it. For every line in that paper I am responsible, except these—for everything excepting the head-lines I am responsible for, and nobody else, and I am legally responsible for them. I do not seek to evade any responsibility.

Q. When I ask the question as to the responsibility, I do not mean legal responsibility?

A. I was the real editor. I do not object to the head-lines. They adequately represented popular sentiment at that time. If it was twenty-two citizens of Philadelphia shot down by Pittsburgh troops, I think there would be a feeling of that kind evinced by the Philadelphia papers. That is my judgment.

Q. One part of the head-lines says, "The worthy strikers arm themselves, and assemble thousands strong to compel their rights?"

A. I did not say so. I simply said I was legally responsible, and not morally. I did not write them, but I say this: that if twenty-two Philadelphians had been shot down without orders, as the evidence before your committee proves, that the Philadelphia papers would have had just such head-lines. It is very well now, four or five months after the occurrence, and when we can calmly and coolly review the facts, to say that that is incendiary and improper. That is all right. I agree with you. I agree now that it was perhaps to that extent, but you, as a Philadelphian, if our Pittsburgh troops had gone down there and shot you Philadelphians, you certainly would have felt as I did when that was written. I did not write it, but I do not shirk any responsibility for it.

A. I believe that it adequately and fully represented that feeling. That is my candid, conscientious conviction.

A. Yes, I did. It is no idle thing to come out here and shoot down twenty-two people that were innocent. If they had been rioters or strikers, if they had had any part or lot in this thing and had shot them down, they would have been right. I would not have blamed you. I do not blame the committee, of course, but I do say this: it was no more and no less than murder to shoot down these people as they were shot down. I think that is the fullest and best account of the riot that appeared in any Pittsburgh paper.

Q. Mr. Carson, do you say and do you think, in your opinion—had the press time to deliberate—do you believe they would have written so sarcastic an article as that?

A. There is no paper in the city of Pittsburgh, published on the eventful Sunday morning of that day, that would not have put some such article as that in their paper.

Q. Understand me right. Had the press had time to deliberate, would they have cast these articles broadcast to the world?

A. No, sir; they would not, but that Sunday morning—Monday morning there was a change. I understand you——

A. It was done when we knew—when we had four reporters out there, when they were bringing in the intelligence of the murder, as we deemed it then, and as the grand jury has since, by their presentment presented, and when they were shot down without orders, we wrote those head-lines. I did not, but I am responsible. That is why we did it.

A. No; four reporters did. The head-lines—I am responsible for every line that appears there but the head-line. And that editorial, I dictated that. That is entirely my own, and every word of it—I stand over it to-day, after months have elapsed. The head-lines—I did not know of it until the next morning.

Q. You say in this editorial, "It is impossible for us to conceive that the action of the railroad strikers, taking the worst view of their side of the case, justified the calling out of the military"—what do you mean by that?

A. I mean their action was passive—was not aggressive. They simply were there. They refused to work, and I furthermore believe, that had there been any conciliation, or attempt at conciliation, used by Scott or their pampered officials, that it could have been arranged. That is my candid belief.

Q. Suppose that the railroad officials had agreed to comply with the request of the strikers—is that what you mean?

A. I do not mean that. I mean if there was any attempt made, but there was not any. They assumed the attitude of tyrants—were overbearing, were tyrannical, and they were abusive.

Q. What reason have you to believe, Mr. Carson, that the strikers would have gone to work had the railroad officials not raised their wages?

A. I can only say in reply to that, I believe they could have been conciliated, and there could have been an adjustment of troubles, and more than that I cannot say. I believe it could have been managed.

Q. You believe, then, that the strikers would have conceded to the ten per cent. being taken off?

A. Yes, I do. But you treat a workingman as a dog, and he will be very apt, like a worm, to turn. It was not so much the reduction as it was they wanted to crush out all the manhood in him, and trample him into the dust. They treated them with no consideration at all. They treated them as just so much machinery. I do not want to interject a speech into my evidence, but if you want a speech I can give it to you on that question.

A. I do not know. If you want me to tell you how I was told they were received, I will tell you; I do not know of my own knowledge.

A. I will give you that now. They were received with the utmost haughtiness. They were dismissed with a wave of the hand. They said, "We will make no terms, no concessions with you. Go back to your wages—go to work—then we will talk to you. We will have nothing at all to do with you." Now that was the way they were received.

Q. Were they not told that if they would retire from the company's property, and allow the company to enjoy its property and its rights, that they would receive them?

A. No, sir, never heard of it; no, sir. Not the most sanguine man that knows anything about the Pennsylvania railroad officials in western Pennsylvania would ever say such a thing either. I make that a part of my testimony.

A. I pretend to say that the railroad officials in western Pennsylvania, on the part of the Pennsylvania railroad, are tyrants, and serfs in Russia have better lives to lead than employés on the Pennsylvania railroad. There is no serfdom in Russia—if the reporter will make that correction. Slavery has been abolished in America, and has been abolished in Russia, but there is a modified form of it on the Pennsylvania——

Q. What do you mean when you say that the "hated company discriminates against the interests of Pittsburgh and western Pennsylvania?"

A. Do you want me to talk on that subject? I can talk for five hours. I say they have systematically discriminated against Pittsburgh, and they have ruined it—that is what they have done. They will carry freight from Pittsburgh—they have systematically discriminated against Pittsburgh to the extent of twenty-five per cent., and when Colonel Scott was here, he said he was horrified. He had not dreamed there was such discrimination. He could not believe it possible; and James Parke, junior, who was one of our most eminent citizens, a Christian gentleman, too, he said it was true. Why, said he, I could not believe it possible. We know it's possible—we know it has ruined Pennsylvania; and the only thing that is going to help us is a competing road, and that, thank God, we will have in the course of three or four months.

A. it means that they will carry freight from Chicago to Philadelphia cheaper than they will carry from Chicago to Pittsburgh; that they will carry cheaper from Chicago to Albany than they will carry it to Pittsburgh; that Pittsburgh merchants can take goods to Boston, and take them to San Francisco a great deal cheaper—paying the freight to Boston and back—a great deal cheaper than they can ship them direct to San Francisco. There were three thousand tons shipped by Wilson, Walker & Co., to Boston, and from Boston to San Francisco, paying the freight to Boston and back. That is what made trouble in this community. They have been systematically oppressing Pittsburgh. There is no manufacturer unless he has got drawbacks and rebates.

Q. This trouble might just as well have fallen on some other portion of the State as it did on Pittsburgh, would it not?

Q. It could have, and I think would, had we not anticipated the whole trouble here. There was not a community in the State of Pennsylvania, which would have sympathized to the extent that we did. I will answer why: we would have sympathized because we have been systematically oppressed for the last fifteen years. We have been practically ruined.

Q. This thing was as likely to occur at Harrisburg or Scranton or Reading, as it was at Pittsburgh, but, unfortunately, Pittsburgh was the place.

A. We bore the blunt of it. We were the first to receive it, and it found the community in full sympathy with the strikers, because of their sufferings. You systematically oppress a people, and revolution is not only right, but it is a duty.

A. They did not. They were in sympathy with the strikers; but I was up on Sunday, there at the Union depot, and I saw the people. Saw that they were burning, and all that kind of thing. I did not see a single Pittsburgher. They were all strange faces, and not a face there that was familiar to me, and I am thoroughly familiar with Pittsburgh. They were tramps gathered from all parts of the Union.

Q. That is not the question I asked you. The question I asked you was this: if the merchants of the city of Pittsburgh sympathized with the strikers?

A. No, sir. I went up to the Union depot on Sunday, between one and three o'clock in the afternoon. I saw that mob, and there was not a single Pittsburgh face in it. They were all strangers—tramps, and the strikers had gone away.

Q. Was there any sympathy expressed by the good portions of the citizens of this city after the burning and destruction of property had commenced?

A. On the contrary, the utmost detestation of the ravages of the mob. They sympathized with the strikers in their demand for higher wages. Ninety cents is not much for a man to live on, and I would like to see you gentlemen try to live on it.

Q. Was there any expression of sympathy on the part of citizens with the mob that attacked the troops in the round-house before the burning took place?

A. I rather imagine that the feeling of the community was that the men who had murdered——

Q. I want you to answer the question, whether there was an expression and sentiment to that effect.

A. No; but there was a feeling that it was no more than retributive justice—there was no urging that to be done.

Q. There seems to be an article in the nature of an advertisement, commencing, "Attention Citizens," &c.

A. I cannot tell you about that. That is an advertisement. I did not see that, and I do not know who put it in, even.

A. I do not know anything about an advertisement. A man pays for it and he gets them in.

A. I presume so. I am not business manager. I am responsible for whatever is written there. I assume that responsibility wholly.

Q. Do you know of any articles that were published in your paper that were calculated to arouse and inflame the people that were paid for for insertion?

Q. In writing an article—supposing I was even competent to write an article for your paper, and would wish to suppress my name, would not you require to have my name, so that if you were come back upon you could get it?

Q. It might come under that head. I think it would keep you very busy to make that out an advertisement. I do not claim to be a newspaper man, but it would keep me pretty busy to make that out?

A. It was paid for, or it would not have been in, because I have assumed the responsibility for everything that was in there, but I do not assume for that, because I do not know anything about it.

A. I have no doubt that our business manager could give you proper information. I am willing to assume any responsibility. I do not shirk that, but that is a matter that is not in my line. That is a business advertisement.

Q. I am not a newspaper man, but, I suppose, if I should write an article for your paper, you would require the name?

A. Look at the position it occupies; it is put among the advertisements, I believe.

Q. Is not the editor of a paper responsible for anything that is published in his paper, whether it is an advertisement or anything else?

Q. And therefore you are responsible, as editor of that paper, for that advertisement?

Q. Were you a member of the National Guard of the State of Pennsylvania in July last?

Q. Did you receive an order from General Latta, ordering General Brinton to take a certain route after leaving the round-house, in case he was driven from the round-house?

A. I received an order from General Latta, after they had left the round-house, to deliver to General Brinton, with instructions to deliver to him at the arsenal. It was then supposed he was located at the arsenal.

A. Yes, sir. On Sunday morning, we were lying at Torrens station. Communication had been cut off, both by telegraph and couriers. We had no communication with General Latta at all, and Colonel Guthrie requested me to go to the Union depot, and endeavor, if possible, to obtain an interview with General Latta, and ask him what orders he had to issue for our regiment. I went to the Union depot, and, on my way there, I passed the Philadelphia troops just coming out of the round-house. I went to the Union depot and reported to General Latta that the troops were out of the round-house, and on their way out Penn avenue—I do not know where. He waited a few moments, and a messenger came in, stating that they had left the round-house, and had gone to the arsenal. Another one came in in a few moments, saying that they were quartered in the arsenal. General Latta, after deliberating for a few moments over the matter, and consulting one or two parties there, requested me to remain a few moments until he would write an order. I did not know what the substance of the order was at all, and, after I had started, he told me to take that order to General Brinton at the arsenal, and, as soon as I left the Union depot, I read the order, which was instructing General Brinton to proceed by way of Penn avenue to East Liberty, and join Colonel Guthrie. I went immediately to the arsenal, and I found that they were not quartered there at all. I made inquiry and was told they had gone on out Butler street. I drove on up Butler street as rapidly as possible, and when I got to Sharpsburg, or two miles beyond there, they told me they were stationed two miles ahead of me, on the other side of the river. There was a gentleman remarked there that they were striking for Butler county. I deliberated a few moments whether I would follow them, or report first to the regiment, and consult Colonel Guthrie. I finally concluded I would go to my regiment, at East Liberty, and, if Colonel Guthrie thought it advisable, after consulting him, I would go across the river, and deliver the order to General Brinton. Upon handing the order to Colonel Guthrie, he instructed me to take command of the regiment, and he would go to town and see General Latta in person, which he did. I never saw the order from that time until this. A day or two afterwards, however, I received a telegram from General Latta, requesting me, for the first time, to report what action I had taken in the matter, and I reported to him by letter, which is published in the Adjutant General's report, I see.

Q. Did you read the order to Colonel Norris, or did he see the order, to your knowledge?

A. Yes; I showed him the order at the arsenal. He overtook me at the arsenal coming up a different route, and started for East Liberty. I hailed him, and told him he was on the wrong road. I told him I had an order here, producing it, I think. I think I told him I had an order for General Brinton, and I was going on to overtake him, and he turned immediately and went on ahead of me. I went back to my buggy and he went on ahead of me, and I did not overtake him. He understood, however, what was in the order. I believe he read the order before it left General Latta, at the Union depot.

Q. Who was responsible for the delivery of that order, handed you by General Latta for General Brinton?

A. My instructions were to deliver the order to General Brinton in the arsenal. When I found he was not in the arsenal, and my instructions being to report back to my regiment, I considered my first duty, after I found he had gone away outside of my route, was to report to my colonel and see what he would do. He then advised me to remain where I was, and said he would go with the order to General Latta, which he did. He took the order, put it in his pocket, and left the regiment on Sunday about eleven o'clock, I think, and went in and had an interview with General Latta.

Q. You know nothing of the movement of the troops during Saturday night and Sunday morning?

A. I received an order on Sunday morning, at two o'clock, to join Colonel somebody, from Wall station, and move to Twenty-eighth street. We went to Torrens station, and received ammunition sent there for them, and waited there until the next morning, and they never put in an appearance.

Q. Are you the father of Robert Ammon, known as Bob Ammon during the troubles in July?

Q. Have you any knowledge of the occurrences during that time in Allegheny City?

A. I have, somewhat. I felt, of course, it was natural that I should feel an interest, seeing that my son was concerned there.

A. Not of the occurrences. My aims were directed to inspire Robert as much as possible—to prevent destruction of property. I sent messages and communications to him frequently, almost hourly.

Q. Your son Robert testified in Philadelphia that he had some communications with some parties that were concerned in the railroad, either the officials of the railroad company and the civil authorities of Allegheny City—have you any of these communications—the originals?

A. Yes, sir; Robert handed them to me in the jail of Allegheny City, and I turned them over to his lawyer. I would have brought them up this morning, but Mr. Miller was sick. I did not go to see them until this afternoon. I have those that I deemed the most important here.

A. Now here is the first one I present here. I have read them over so often that I am familiar with them, and if you will permit I will read them.

A. This dispatch is directed to Allegheny City, at the outer depot, where Robert had his station, reads as follows:

"Operator, do anything to save property, and if engines and freight can be moved out of the city and men enough to do it, and the strikers will permit, run them west on north track far enough to be safe from any damage from Pittsburgh men. Give copy to Ammon. G. S. G."

If you desire an explanation of these, those initials signify "George S. Griscom," whose duty it was to send them. A gentleman by the name of W. A. Routson occupied his place.

A. He is a railroad official. Kind of assistant superintendent, Mr. Layng is general superintendent, and those gentlemen are next to him.

A. Not that. Routson signed these dispatches. I got that information from Robert. There is something on the other side. The operator who signs "K," says, "Ammon wants to know if you want the sixty-eight armed men."

A. Signed by the operator who signs himself "K." The answer of "G. S. G.," "Yes; if he is in good faith to defend the company's property." If it is in order, I might give you a little explanation.

A. On Sabbath morning early, I guess, as early as five o'clock—I live on the south side—I got up, and I got my horse and buggy, and I put Robert's mother in with a younger son of mine, and asked them to drive over. I read in the Chronicle that Bob was among the strikers, and I supposed Bob was in the oil regions at the time; I did not know that he was in Allegheny. I sent Mrs. Ammon over with the request to Robert, that if he thought he would be involved in the strike he had better get in the buggy with his mother and come to Birmingham, and stay until the trouble was over, and I gave the little fellow, who was in the buggy some money to pay his fare in the street car. She informed me that Bob would willingly have complied with my request, but that he could not leave. There was a very great many tramps there, and he and the strikers had to get arms to keep these men away from robbing the cars, and for this reason he could not follow my advice, and go to Birmingham.

Q. I would like to know this before you go any further. Are those telegrams that Robert Ammon received from the railroad officials during the time that he had charge of the road?

A. Yes, sir; this is the commencement of them. He had not charge on Sunday. He took charge of it on Monday. The next telegram is directed to Bob. It says:

"Ammon, a large crowd of men going down the Brighton road, where coaches and cars are on the main track, east of Manchester. Can you protect them?

"G. S. G."

A. Assistant superintendent Griscom. Here is one directed to the initials "W. F. R." That means William F. Ross. He was also official of the railroad.

"Tell Ammon, if the freight cannot be moved, we would like to move the engines any way. Tell him to help the C. & P., too. [That means Cleveland and Pittsburgh.]

"G. S. G."

"J. D. L.: [That means, J. D. Layng.]

"I have just sent Ed. Compbell and Paisley to Mayor Phillips for twenty-five police to watch cars, as our men are completely prostrated and wish to obtain some rest. They will watch with police. Can you make some arrangement to get victuals for these men on watch?

"Ammon."

They got a little provisions—that came a little previous, that ought to come in afterwards. Here is another addressed to J. D. L.:

"Can you arrange to send me to-day some hundreds of cartridges? Answer me, as I expect to have use for them.

"Ammon."

"Ammon:

"Have instructed Ross and Parkin to arrange for provisions. See them.

"J. D. L."

"Ammon:

"C. & P. Shifter wanted to go down to Glendale and back, and take down relief guards and supper to the men. Is it O.K. to run them following 37?

"G. S. G."

"Will spare engine 305. Will pick it up and take it down with the relief.

"Ammon."

"Please hurry engine for 17 over.

"W. F. Ross."

"Ammon:

"Engine No. 421 will go on No. 17; and engine 97 on No. 37; and engine 325 on No. 39.

"J. G. Parkin."

A. He arranged with Ross and Parkin for provisions—he was a regular employé there.

"Ammon:

"Engine, No. 330, will go on 17, instead of engine, No. 421.

"G. S. P." That is Parkin.

"Ammon:

"I think a new request on the mayor would give you the cartridges, as he no doubt, has been supplied by this time.

"J. D. L."

"D. R. Ammon:

"Of course, you understand that I cannot do anything in the matter of sending, but if you will permit me, as a private individual, to make a suggestion, it would be, that you send to Mayor Phillips and ask him to send you fifty to one hundred men, to protect the property now on the Fort Wayne tracks. I think, that on a proper representation of the facts, he would do this, and it would give the men now in charge of the property, the rest I have no doubt they very much need.

"J. D. L."

"Ammon:

"You had better see Cole, and get matters in shape to talk; but, as I said in former message, what our men want to do, is to let the mob element quiet down and then they can talk calmly. You all want to maintain a record free from violence in any shape. I know you can fully appreciate the force of this.

"J. D. Layng."

The witness: These are all the dispatches which represent the general spirit, and there are a great many more, all in the same strain, and that is all I have to say. They speak for themselves as to their being genuine. If it should come to trial, I think it would be no trouble to prove that. One other matter I desire to call your attention to. As I stated already, that on Sunday, I sent Mrs. Ammon to bring Bob to Birmingham. Mr. Siebeneck informed me on Saturday evening that Bob was over there, and I told him I didn't think it was so. I understood, from Bob's wife, he was up in the oil regions. Bob was living right at the scene where the troubles in Allegheny occurred, and had been an employé of the road, as you are aware. On Sunday, when Mrs. Ammon came home, I felt calm about it. I knew when Bob promised a thing, he generally would, at least, try to carry it out. On Monday morning matters seemed to move along smoothly in Allegheny—what I got was from the newspaper reports. I could not leave my office on Wood street, because our secretary had gone to Bedford, and I was there with one of the clerks and the janitor, and the situation in Pittsburgh then looked very threatening. We have a great many valuable assets there about our safe, and I thought my presence was necessary. Occasionally I would go up on Fifth street and send somebody for Bob, with a verbal message or a few lines. On about three o'clock in the afternoon—perhaps a little before——

A. On Monday, I saw Mr. Siebeneck. He says to me, "Ammon," says he, "I have just got word that Bob is in charge of the Fort Wayne road." I, for a moment, didn't know what to say, but Siebeneck assured me that the thing was so. Looking up the street, I saw Mr. Watt, the ticket agent of the Pennsylvania road, at the corner of Fifth and Smithfield street. He came up to me, and says, "My God, squire, has not there been enough property destroyed! Is there any end to this thing! Can you do anything so that property would not be destroyed in Allegheny. Have you any influence with Bob?" I told Mr. Watt, that I thought I had, and if he would go out and see General McCauley, the vice president of the road, for me, and could tell him that I would go to Allegheny, drive over with my wagon, and I was satisfied that Bob would come away with me, if they wanted him away, but that I would not do so unless I had the consent of the railroad officials, and I gave him my reasons. From what I knew, that Bob kept the thing there at bay, there had been no row, no disturbance. If I should take him away, and trouble should accrue in consequence, I would feel that I was indirectly responsible for it. Mr. Watt went out, and in perhaps half an hour or less time, he came back, and I give you his words as near as I can remember. He said, that the general said, "Tell the old squire we are very much obliged for his kindness, and the interest he shows, but the taking away of Bob, would be, perhaps, the worst move we could make." When I heard that, I felt calm—my clerk—one of my clerks, lives in Allegheny. I again wrote a letter to Bob, and implored him, by all that could be dear and holy to him, to see to it, that no destruction of property would take place there. Early next morning, I got an answer from Bob, wherein he assured me that everything was working smoothly, and said all the best citizens, James L. Bennett, and gentlemen who had been before you, and others had been there, and saw him, and they all seemed to be satisfied for the present that he would do the best he could. Shortly after I received that letter, Mr. William L. Jones came in. He lives in Sewickley, is an insurance man, on Fourth avenue, and he told me that Bob was in charge of the road. I told him I was well aware of that, and stated to him that I had communicated with Mr. Watt and General McCauley, and says he, "I know Mr. Layng; will you permit me to go out and make him the same offer." I told him he should go, and I should be obliged to him. He went out and came back with about the same answer. Mr. Layng said he was perfectly satisfied to leave Bob at present where he was. I heard some more afterward, that Mr. McCauley said he hadn't said that to Watt, and I went out. I knew the general well. He says, "'Squire, I only said I didn't remember it, but if it is said that I did say it, I would not take it back, and under like circumstances I would perhaps say the same thing again." I advised Bob, during the day, then, to get out of it just as soon as he safely could for himself and the property. In the evening the Governor came, and you know, you have heard his Excellency; and the next morning the papers reported that Bob had stepped out and things had assumed the usual aspect again. From that time until Bob was arrested the committee of safety, or sub-committee of safety, they took Bob in charge. He stepped out, say on Wednesday morning, and about noon a gentleman attached to the Chronicle office came down and said there was a committee up there with Bob, and they wanted to see me. When I came up there Mr. Jacob Rees, Major Swearinger, Mr. Slagle, of the iron-works on the south side, and some others were present, and they told me they wanted to see Bob and get the blockade raised of the freight which was still on the tracks there, and it seems he was not much acquainted with him and didn't know what to do, and he said he would not say anything to him until his father came, and I told Bob there to follow the advice of these gentlemen, and if, in consequence of their advice, he would get into trouble, I would see him through. These men subsequently got into the secret meetings of the strikers down to Dietrick's hall, in Allegheny, and things came all right again, and on Monday following—it was just one week after—a railroad official came to my office in the morning, I guess about as early as nine o'clock, and said, "Squire, if you don't want to have Bob arrested, get him out of the road," and I told that gentleman that I was obliged to him for his kindness, but if Bob and the railroad company had anything to settle, they had better settle it now. About two o'clock in the afternoon Bob was standing near the corner of Fourth avenue and Wood street, and six detectives pounced on him and dragged him to jail, and he stayed there for eleven weeks. That is all I have to say in regard to Bob. Now permit me to say, in less than a dozen words, in regard to what I read in the newspapers this afternoon, of the testimony of my friend, the mayor of Allegheny. The mayor swears, point blank and positively, that he had but one interview with Bob. If that was all, it must have been a mighty long one—a very long one. The mayor and myself have been personally acquainted for a number of years, and shortly after Bob was arrested he met me on Fifth avenue, and he stepped up to me and said, "Squire, I am sorry, on your account, in regard to the scrape Bob was in." I told his honor that the thing was certainly unpleasant, but that I did not worry much, after all, about it. I did not think it was anything that was disgraceful, like a charge of stealing or murder, or anything of that kind. It had happened in all countries before, and that I would have to be satisfied whatever the law said; and I says to him, says I, "So far as your city was concerned, mayor, there was not a dollar's worth of property stolen." "There was not anything destroyed." Says I, "Supposing, if Bob is tight, and we put you on the stand, what is the worse you could say against him." "Well," says the squire, "I would have to say that, by continuously persuading Bob and his men, I kept them down so that everything passed off quietly." Now, if it was the only one interview with him, it seems to me he must have been most of the time with Bob.

Q. Did the mayor of Allegheny City give your son credit for maintaining the peace and order, and saving the destruction of property—did he do that?

Q. Did Mayor Phillips, to you, give your son the credit for maintaining peace, and of restraining the crowd and rioters from the destruction of property?

A. That is all, sir, that was said between the mayor and myself, what I have recited—what I stated. I asked him what the worst was, if he was on the witness stand, he could say against Bob, and he stated that he would have to say, that, by continuously persuading Bob and his men, he kept them down. That everything went off smoothly.

A. He said, by continuously persuading Bob and his men. That is the mayor's words. If he has forgotten it, I have not.

Q. In any communication that you had with Bob, did he assure you, or say to you, that he would not allow any property to be destroyed?

A. Yes; he sent me verbally. Sometimes I would send over a man just to talk to him. That man might bring me back a verbal message, or might bring back a few lines. He said that I should not have the slightest fear.

A. He would take care of the property, and nothing should be destroyed while he was there. In one of his letters, he said he would rather die than submit to the destruction of property.

Q. Did he intimate to you in these communications that he had control of these men—that they would obey him?

A. And others told me something similar. I would say—permit me to recur to one conversation—Mr. James I. Bennett, a gentleman whom I believe has testified before you—he is president of the insurance company which I represent as general agent. I went to him after I had these assurances from the railroad officials that they did not want Bob away. I felt dissatisfied; but I thought I would have been more satisfied if he had been away. I went down to his office, at the iron-works, on Water street, and I told him. Says I, "Mr. Bennett, this is the way things stand." Well, says he, "I was down last night." Mr. Bennett lives near, in close proximity to where the trouble occurred. Says he, "I was there last night and saw Bob, and things are working about as smooth as they could under the circumstances," and says he, "Don't you do anything of the kind." Says he, "The strikers put Bob there to run the road, and, if you take him away, they will put some other man there who is, perhaps, not half as well qualified as Bob is." Those were Bennett's words to me.

Q. Did the president of that road, or any of the officials of that road, say to you that they were satisfied that Bob should have charge of this road?

A. The vice president, the first vice president, General McCullough, was the man to whom I first went. I heard that Bob was in charge of the road, and agreed to go over and take Bob away, and he sent me back word, through Mr. Watt, the ticket agent, that that would be the worst move he could make.

A. Yes, sir. And when I afterwards heard that it was said that McCullough hadn't said that, I went out and saw him—I am on intimate terms with him, and says he, "Squire, I simply don't remember that I said it; but, under like circumstances, I would perhaps say the same thing again to-day. I do not know what else I could say."

The witness: I read in the newspapers this afternoon, that Mr. Stewart stated to this committee that he had an interview with me on Friday, in which he stated that the railroad company desired to have one hundred men, that they would pay for them. I have to say that Mr. Stewart had no interview with me on Friday, and he did not make that statement to me on Friday, nor did he make that statement to me upon any other day.

A. I did not. I did see Mr. Stewart at the city hall steps on Saturday forenoon.

A. It was simply conveying from Mr. Scott or Mr. Cassatt, as he stated, a desire that I should go up to the Union depot to see Mr. Cassatt. I declined to do so, and gave my reasons for it, which were, substantially, that the troops were brought here unnecessarily; that it was disgracing the city, and that I had an abiding conviction it would end in bloodshed, which would be unnecessary; and I declined to go to see him, as I knew who and what Pennsylvania railroad officers were; that they were imperious and dictatorial, and I could have no influence upon them whatever, and the result verified my predictions.

Q. At that time did this gentleman ask you to swear in a certain number of police officers, and the railroad company would pay them?

A. He never said anything of the kind, either that day or any other day. It is pretty hard to join those two statements together.

A. Well, I swear to that. The fact is, I scared them, and he did not know whether he was standing on his head or his heels. I blowed at him about bringing troops here, and it would result in murder, and I used strong language.

A. No; I just gave the honest convictions of my soul to him in very strong and emphatic language.

A. It was not necessary to scare him, but he was scared. That is the only way I can account for his ideas that he delivered that message.

A. Except I felt what I said, that these men had brought the troops here and shot people down unnecessarily, made me tell you over there that the police had broken the back of that strike on Thursday afternoon—utterly broken it, and if they had any gumption about them, with the expenditure of less than $500, they could have moved a train, and the strike never would have been heard of again. But instead of that, they laid down upon their belly like dogs, and cried for troops, and did nothing for twenty-four hours, and allowed the strike to get ahead.

A. Indeed, I do not know. As I understand, I thought when I was in Philadelphia listening to your proceedings at the St. Cloud, that I heard a gentleman swear that he saw the police, at the station-houses on Penn avenue, fire at them. I was very deaf that day, and I could not swear positively whether he said so, but on that point I have a few words to say. The first that I knew, or rather the first that I heard about the firing by the police upon the troops was contained in this dispatch to Mayor McCarthy: