Pittsburgh, Saturday, February 23, 1878.

The committee met at three o'clock, pursuant to adjournment, Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All members present.

William W. Thompson, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Fourth ward, Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Attorney.

Q. State, Mr. Thompson, what knowledge you have of the riots and means taken to suppress—I do not know the fact that you are called to prove particularly, but go on and state it?

A. I just say this: That during the time of the riots, I was chairman of the police committee of the city of Pittsburgh, and that on the evening of Saturday, the 21st of July, I was up at city hall. The mayor had called a special meeting in order to enable him to employ additional police, and he employed the policemen round about the city hall at that time to deliver the notices, and we had a meeting on Sunday morning, at ten o'clock, and authorized the mayor to employ as many additional policemen as he deemed necessary for the emergency. That was all that the police committee had authority to stop.

Q. What time was that meeting?

A. On Sunday, the 22d of July, at ten o'clock.

Q. You then authorized him to employ as many police as he deemed necessary?

A. Yes; for the emergency that was all we could do. Afterwards that evening I was at city hall, and Colonel Howard—I do not remember the number of his regiment—

Q. The Nineteenth, I believe?

A. I think it was the Nineteenth—asked me to call a meeting of the councils. At that time, on account of the absence of Negley, I was president of common council, and at his instance I called a meeting of the common council, and also issued a call, in the name of Mr. Aiken, president of the select council, for a meeting of the select council the next morning at ten o'clock, for the meeting to authorize the payment of any expenses that might be necessary for the purpose of suppressing the riot. We had a meeting next morning, at ten o'clock, and authorized the payment of whatever expenses were necessary for that purpose.

Q. Did the mayor increase his police force after that, to your knowledge?

A. I know before that time the policemen had been reduced, on account of want of appropriation—had been reduced one half—and he sent out notices for all the discharged policemen to come in and be sworn in as additional policemen. That was Saturday, and on Sunday morning there were some of them there, but not many of them. There were a good many of the police refused to serve on account of being employed for an emergency. They said if they were to be employed for the balance of the year they would serve, but if they were to be employed for a few days, to go into this fight, they would not act. That evening—that Sunday evening—there were several residents down in the Fourth ward, in the neighborhood of the Duquesne depot, employed a force to guard the Duquesne depot there that night. It was said there was going to be an attack on it, and they had a guard around it to protect it that night—to prevent the rioters from setting it on fire. There were two men arrested for making an attempt to burn it. I believe they were tried and convicted afterwards for attempted arson.

Q. Was there any disposition on the part of either branch to employ all the force required in the city to suppress the riot?

A. That whole matter rested with the police committee, and the vote of the police committee was unanimous authorizing the mayor to employ as many men as he deemed necessary. There was no opposition. We held a joint session Monday morning for the purpose of authorizing the payment of all expenses necessary for that purpose. My recollection for that purpose has been paid without any objection that I know of.

E. P. Jones, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the Thirteenth ward, Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Attorney.

Q. I do not know the fact you are called upon to prove, but if you will just go on and state it——

A. I hardly know myself. I saw a good deal of the riot, but I think some one mentioned to me that it was with reference to the circumstances that I saw Saturday night. I rode past the round-house between nine and ten o'clock, on Saturday night.

Q. What time?

A. Between nine and ten o'clock. When I got to the round-house, and was just passing it, there was a two horse carriage drove up. It stopped, or was stopped, just when I was there, and they had something in the carriage that they delivered to the crowd, taking the articles from under the seats, and as soon as they delivered them to the crowd, the whole crowd burst in one applause and hurrah. I presume, too, without knowing the fact—I did not see the articles—but I thought they were ammunition and arms. I went on, after that. There was a great crowd of people there, and I rode by way of Liberty street from that point down to the depot. Every avenue leading on Liberty street, and to the round-house, were crowded with people going that way. They were all in a great hurry.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You did not see what was in the carriage?

A. No; I could not say that I saw the articles, positively. I happened to mention that circumstance, and some one——

Q. Did you hear in the crowd anything expressive of what it was?

A. Nothing but applause. They received whatever there was there, with great applause and excitement. I saw the burning on Sunday.

Q. Do you know who drove the carriage?

A. No, sir; the driver was sitting up in one of those high sitting carriages—a two horse carriage. It stopped right at the round-house, in the midst of the crowd, and the articles, whatever they were, were delivered.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you know the carriage?

A. No, sir; it appeared to be a hired carriage. I am satisfied of that.

Q. Belonging to——

A. I would take it that it was one of those livery stable rigs.

Q. A hack?

A. Yes, one of those carriages. It was not a private carriage. I do not know any other facts.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Where were you during Sunday, during the burning of the property there and rioting?

A. I was on the hill—I was on Grant street, and different places during the day. Went to church in the morning, and then in the afternoon I was among the rioters.

Q. Were you near the scene of the riot?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What kind of people appeared to be engaged in this riot?

A. They appeared to be foreigners, and I must say that looking at them, and being among them, I could not recognize one face.

Q. You speak of foreigners. You mean not living in this vicinity?

A. Yes, sir; and I saw some Germans, but the burners were Irish—a few negroes, but very few.

Q. Did you have any conversation with many of those people?

A. Yes; talked with them some.

Q. Did you remonstrate with any of them for the rioting?

A. Yes; talked of the impropriety of what they were doing. I was stationed at the last part of the riot at Grant street, when the elevator was burning. There were a great many there. I had some talk with people there. I was struck by one—it was an Irishman that struck me.

Q. How did it happen—how did he come to strike you?

A. I was just in the street there, and he struck me.

Q. Without any provocation?

A. Without any provocation at all.

Q. What did he say?

A. He damned me.

Q. Give any reasons for striking you?

A. No reasons at all.

Q. Was it for remonstrating with him?

A. No; I was not talking with him. I was standing in the street, talking to another man, and he came along, and I believe he jostled against somebody, and his hat went off, and I heard him command some one to take up his hat, and I paid no attention to it. The gent I was talking to, said we had better get away from here. He stepped in the street and went away, and this fellow made a pitch at me, and struck me.

Q. Without assigning any reason?

A. He says, "Damn you, pick up that hat, or I will make you do it."

Q. Did you pick it up?

A. No; I did not. After he struck me, I knocked him down, and kicked him twice. I struck him. Knocked him down, and kicked him twice, and wheeled right in the crowd and remained there, and did not go away.

Henry Warner, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State your residence?

A. Allegheny City.

Q. And official position?

A. Comptroller of Allegheny City.

Q. You may just go on and state the facts.

A. My testimony will bear entirely on the restoration of order and closing scenes of the riot. I will state that on Saturday, the day the riot broke out, I left my office here, at fifteen minutes after five o'clock in the evening, and took the train to a place I was boarding at, in the country, with my family. I did not hear before I left the office, nor hear on the train, one word of any disturbance that had taken place on the Pennsylvania railroad. I knew that there had been a strike. I knew that the trains were prevented from running by the strikers, but I did not know of any overt act of violence having been committed, either by the public authorities or the strikers. There is no telegraphic communication with the place I was boarding at, and on Sabbath day, late in the day, rumors commenced to circulate throughout the country of the scenes that were occurring in the city, and when the night was pretty far advanced, the light from the burning could be seen at that distance, over twelve miles—the glare in the sky. I made arrangements with some persons, thinking that, probably, the train might be detained at Little Washington, and not come in. I made arrangements to come with some other gentlemen by private conveyance, but the train came along that day, and I arrived at my office on Monday at half past eight o'clock. The first message I received was from Mayor McCarthy to come to his office without delay, and I took one of the county commissioners and started for his office. I had no opportunity of learning the extent of the disaster that had occurred. I met him on the corner of Fifth and Smithfield. He appeared to me to have been coming up in this direction. As soon as he saw me, he hallooed me, and said that the Philadelphia military had been driven from the city, and had taken refuge at the Allegheny county work-house, and the authorities had refused to provide them with victuals, and requested me to order the authorities at the work-house to provide the soldiers with something to eat. Mr. Begard and I—Mr. Begard is the county commissioner—started for the Western Union telegraph office, and at my request, the telegraph company put one of their lines—gave me the use of one of their lines to communicate as long and much as I wished. The nearest telegraph station to the work-house was a mile and a half away from the work-house. The operator tried his line, and found that they were down, and reported the fact, and stated, that probably if I would go to Allegheny City, and the West Penn station, that probably I would get communication there. I went over to the West Penn station, and the proprietor there tried the lines also, and his lines were down—could not get any communication. He then advised me to go to the transfer station of the West Penn railroad, about three quarters of a mile out, and probably I could get communication there. When I went out there, we got telegraphic communication, and discovered that the soldiers were all loaded on cars, and were then on their way to Blairsville. On my return to the Allegheny depot, I met one of the soldiers of the Philadelphia command, who had straggled away from his regiment, and who was in citizen's dress. Some citizens called my attention to the man, and said that he was eager for protection, that he was in fear of personal danger, and they requested that I would take charge of him and do something for him. I told him the circumstances, where his command had been shipped to, and went to one of the officials of the West Penn railroad, and got him transportation on the first line that left the depot. I took a card out of my pocket, and directed it to the commanding officer, requesting him to come back with his command to the work-house, and that he would be provisioned there and be taken care of. I don't know whether that note ever reached the commanding officer or not. It certainly had no effect. That and the meeting of the committee of safety, in Pittsburgh, on Monday afternoon, in which they requested the prompt coöperation of the county authorities, and especially the use of the means under our control, and restore order, was my first day's work. On Tuesday, at the request of the committee of public safety, I went to Colonel Howe, superintendent Western Union Telegraph Company, and requested him to send a man to Claremont to put the work-house in telegraphic communication with the city, as there were very serious rumors prevailing that the coopers, who were much opposed, in this vicinity, to prison labor, were about to assault the work-house, and probably destroy it. Colonel Rowe did so. He sent his men there, and in less than two hours I had a dispatch from the superintendent of the work-house. The dispatch was to the effect that I should send him out arms and ammunition. Senator McNeil was then in the city, and he and I got a buggy, and went out to the arsenal, stated our case to the commandant of the Allegheny arsenal, and he told us he had authority to issue five hundred stand of arms from the Secretary of War—authority from the Secretary of War to issue five hundred stand of arms to the mayor of Allegheny City. As the mayor of Allegheny had only drawn four hundred, he had one hundred left, and suggested that we should get an order for the balance. We took a flour wagon over to the arsenal. The mayor of Allegheny told McNeil, and some citizens also told us, that we could not possibly get away from the arsenal with arms and ammunition, as we should be watched, and that all avenues leading to and from the city were carefully guarded by the rioters. We got one hundred stand of arms from the arsenal, five thousand rounds of ammunition, and loaded it in our flour wagon, and, with a single driver, and McNeil and myself in the buggy, took them to the Allegheny work-house, a distance of eight miles, by country roads. We were not misled nor questioned by any person. At the time we left the arsenal, the commandant showed us out a private entrance. I might state here that the superintendent of the work-house proposed to defend that institution with the employés of the institution, and with some trusty criminals that he had in charge. He thought that if he had the arms and ammunition he would be perfectly safe. We remained all night at the work-house, and on Wednesday morning instructed the sheriff of the county—the county commissioner and myself, instructed the sheriff of the county, in view of the fact that the railroad officials had appeared to have abandoned their property entirely, to immediately throw a guard of men of not less than one hundred around all the burned district to protect what remaining property was on the ground, scrap iron, &c., and it was rumored that a car load of bullion had been melted and run into the debris, and the sheriff immediately did so. We also called into our aid—although we were advised that it was out of our jurisdiction—that is, there appeared to be no person to undertake these things—we called into our aid the county detective, and instructed him to employ as many detectives, and as many wagons as he could possibly use, and to hunt for and restore the stolen property that had been taken away, and to bring it to a warehouse that we rented on Liberty street—a large warehouse for the purpose, and also put notices—had notices inserted in all the papers, morning and evening, directing any persons who had any property in their possession that had been taken during the riot to deliver it to those detectives, or at that warehouse. A very large amount of property was recovered—property of all descriptions, and under an arrangement with the officials of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, as this property was nearly all theirs and taken from their cars, they were delivered over to the officials of the railroad company, and their receipts were taken for the same. That covers a period of probably two weeks, and various instances happened in regard to that property that would scarcely be necessary for me to repeat. Some of them were very curious. A great deal of the property was voluntarily brought back, and the excuse was given that, as it seemed to be a general thing, and as every person was taking property, thought that that property, a barrel of flour, or a ham, or box of cigars, or whatever it may be, might as well be taken by them as be lost. I had a conversation with the president of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company a few days after that—Colonel Thomas A. Scott—and an arrangement was entered into in regard to those losses—in regard to an account being taken of them, and to have them as definitely settled as possible. The county commissioners and myself appointed a commission, composed of the fire marshal of Allegheny county, and Robert Thorn, an experienced insurance adjuster, and Mr. Trimble, an experienced carpenter, to go upon the ground and thoroughly investigate any claims for loss or damage, which they did, and I have in my office now over one hundred and sixty-nine adjusted claims; that is, claims that were settled—the amount settled by this commission. Colonel Scott was to investigate the losses of freights, which would take a very considerable time, and obtain such proofs as were in the possession of the railroad company in regard to the losses; and the estimated value of the goods that were returned to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company could not have been much short of sixty thousand dollars, at first cost—the cost to the owners. They were disposed of by auction, many of them being broken packages, and much of the goods being such as would spoil by being kept on hand. We also appointed a commission, composed of three experienced locomotive and car builders, to go upon the ground and carefully estimate the damage that was done to locomotives and cars. I have also that report on file in my office; and after a period of about four weeks we suspended, as the civil officers—as the financial officers really had no jurisdiction in those matters—suspended all operations in that line, and handed it over to the civil authorities of the county. I may say here, in addition to that, that we considered, as financial officers of the county, that no expense should be spared nor efforts spared to make restitution, and return all the property it was possible to get hold of. A great deal of property was returned to private individuals, besides that that was returned to the railroad company.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What was the amount of losses adjusted by the two commissions?

A. The amount that was adjusted of strictly private property, that has been finished by the fire marshall's commission, as we call it, has been fixed at about $160,000, in round figures. The locomotive engineers' report——

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Let me understand. What do you mean by strictly private property, does that include furniture?

A. No; that includes houses that were burned, and furniture destroyed.

Q. Any railroad property?

A. No railroad property. I will also state that there was some claims of that nature, that the parties who had the claims refused to present them to the commission, and have them adjusted by the commission. A notable instance of that kind is the Pittsburgh elevator. Their claim for loss is above, I believe, $200,000, alone. Some person will come along with a claim for a suit of clothes, or something of that kind, that was lost in a hotel, or in some house. The commissions reported in regard to locomotive property—railroad property. I considered it private, and have not given the figures to the public.

Q. Have you any estimate of the loss of freight?

A. We have no authentic estimate. I wrote to Colonel Scott in regard to that before I published my annual report, and got no reply, but I understood that the matter was in the hands of a gentleman in Altoona, who had not got through with it. I want to impress the committee with the fact that every effort was made to make restitution.

James Little, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Twenty-first ward, city of Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Wholesale liquor.

Q. I believe you are called to give us some information as to what was done to suppress the riot on Sunday night?

A. The trouble is to know where to begin and not detain you with unnecessary ideas. I came in on Sabbath morning, when I heard of it. As I came down street, William Smith, the pipeman, proposed we would hold a meeting, and I went down street, and as I went down every prominent man I met I announced it to them, and went on down at the meeting—down at the old market-house.

Q. Citizens' meeting?

A. Citizens' meeting, Sunday. When the meeting was called to order, James Parke was called to the chair, and he assumed to run the whole meeting. He didn't want any one else to speak but himself, and he had been managing the strikers for twenty-five years, and cut me out entirely, and I felt, perhaps, a little personal disgust with how it was managed. I went up to the depot. Citizens came to me and pleaded with me to take part. I went among the railroad men I knew, and asked, Where are the leaders—where is the man that has this thing in charge, where can we go to get parties to prevail on them to stop? They would say, That man over there, pointing to some man; and the first answer he would give would be a rebuff, very harsh generally. I would tell them, That is no use—I don't want to be treated in that way. This thing is disgracing and injuring you and all of us. I treated them as railroad men. Railroad men would send me to those parties. They were invariably strangers. Those that took command were men that were not known here—that is, gave the hints to stand along and managed the guards that were keeping the citizens back that were interfering with them firing the cars.

Q. Railroad men seemed to know who they were?

A. Railroad men knew who they were. At first they denied me any conversation, then I would get and talk with them, and after awhile they would say. So far as I am concerned we will consent to have the thing stopped. Then here was a crowd that I did see some among—I knew the faces of a large number—that would not permit the fire to stop. Told them to burn, apparently, through spite they had of the employers. About the time the fire got round to Seventh street, they had exhausted the line of railroad there—it goes into the tunnel—and we heard the remark, "Now for the point depot." They were quite drunk. There was a car of whisky behind the elevator—they had broken open the car—high wines—and it was perhaps the saving of any further destruction—had made them dead drunk. We gathered up five or six and started with them, explaining to them what districts would be burned, if they didn't furnish assistance. One or two men set fire to cars and in a short time we prevailed on the citizens. I made a speech on a barrel, and we found we had backing enough to call in the police officers and have one of the men arrested, and to stop the riot there. They made declarations that have come before the courts here—that the attorney who has been attending to these courts will recollect—how they were going to proceed to burn the railroad property on the south side.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did these men tell you how they were going to proceed?

A. They said they would not stop until they would burn the cars that were standing on the south side, and the different depots—they were going to burn these depots, and so forth. Some of them made remarks, and some of them did not, on that question. I was treated with perfect respect—announced myself, and we discussed it there. I was one of those unfortunate men that thought I could stop that riot with fifty men.

Q. You mean by remonstrances?

A. By talking, not by force.

Q. Pick handle persuasion?

A. No; white handkerchief. Go right at it, and when a man won't submit to be arrested, try to put him out of the way; if we had to hurt him, hurt him. I served a short time in the military, and we done things very quick in that way there. We would try to handle men gently, and if he would not submit, he was handled roughly.

By Mr. Englebert:

Q. What you would call knock down arguments?

A. There was no chance for white handkerchief nor pick handle arguments there. The crowd was too close.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Could you have quelled the disturbance without the use of fire arms?

A. No, sir; not at all. Perhaps, without the use of them. I would think that, if they had seen men determined to do their work, there would be no necessity for any trouble.

Q. The idea was to be prepared, in case there was a necessity for using fire arms.

A. I, unfortunately, employed in the army, on police duty, through the country, and would arrest many a man who shot a dozen, and you come at them quietly and determined, and they would surrender.

Q. You thought it was necessary to use a show of force and resolution?

A. Yes; and I consider State officers and all were interested by "don't hurt anybody," that that idea got through the crowd, and they were confident that there was nobody going to be hurt.

Q. Do you know of anybody waiting upon the city authorities?

A. I was not connected with that part. I had connection with the mayor's proceeding, to some extent, as a councilor.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What efforts did he make?

A. He sent for some of the leading councilmen, and called a meeting of the council, and we met in general session, and resolved that we would sustain the mayor in paying any expense that he would incur.

Q. When was that?

A. I think on Monday.

Q. After the riot?

A. They supposed the riot was still unquelled.

Q. What I mean is, before the breaking out of the riot—before Saturday night—during Thursday and Friday—was there any steps taken before any consultations with the councilmen?

A. There was, to some extent, but in the shape of a meeting of council.

Q. Was there any talk about calling a meeting, and it would be necessary to take means to suppress any disturbance that might grow out of it?

A. There was, up to the time the county and the military took hold. Then it looked as if the force was immense to a great many—the military force being called out—they had called on them, and the exertions, perhaps, relaxed on the part of the city authorities.

Q. What seemed to animate these men among this crowd?

A. These men that stood back and threatened to shoot any man that would interfere—was a man that appeared to be animated by a spirit of opposition to the railroad—to burn out the railroad—and those that were doing the burning were parties that apparently acted under this direction and were generally strangers that none of us could recognize. On the other hand, it was citizens of Harrisburg that was generally doing the wrecking and carrying away goods. That is as near as I can judge from my connection with them, and I mingled right among them.

Q. Were you among them there Thursday or Friday—have you any knowledge?

A. The first that surprised me in the transactions—I went up to the Union depot on—I think it was Saturday, and the military there—some of the companies—were marched out to go to East Liberty, and instead of ridding the crowd away, they bundled through the crowd, so that they could hardly hold ranks—got out as best they could. I was surprised at it. I thought there was no disposition shown by the military to disperse these crowds.

Q. Have you any knowledge of the causes leading to the riot, at all?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. From personal knowledge?

A. Yes; I suppose I have as good a knowledge of that as most people, because you mingled with railroad men and heard them talk. They were clamoring on account of the reduction of wages and the double-headers. These two were the arguments they plead their cases on. As a general thing they had a good deal of sympathy, I think.

Q. What do you mean by sympathy?

A. They represented their case so that a great many people thought that they were imposed on.

Q. What cause did they assign—a reduction in wages?

A. The reduction in wages was such that, for instance, one brakesman I know to be of good character, he had his last check or warrant, showing that eighteen dollars and some cents was all he could make during the month. His argument was in this shape: Brakesmen would not go out for a day or so, and they could not make a living at the wages they paid; that too many of them were employed. He did not use that argument, but his argument went to show that there was too many of them employed, and that they could not get steady work, and it was still being cut down lower. That was the argument of one man, as a sample.

Q. He seemed to express the ideas of all of them—he was a man of intelligence?

A. He was a very nice man, a man I have known for some time. I think he has a wife and some children. He pulled out his warrant and showed me, as a part of his argument.

Q. He only received eighteen dollars a month?

A. Only got in time enough to make that. While the railroad men stood in the position of defending themselves, they had a great many friends, until it got into the shape of a riot, and then people began to complain. They were uneasy, and saw that things were changed.

Q. Have you any other information on that subject—the cause, which is, as you have expressed, this man's opinion?

A. No other argument that was used in regard to the double-headers. They were on these heavy trains, with only the same number of brakemen as on a single train, and it was so hard to work, and at the same time it was throwing a part of them out of work, and making their time so much less to the men—the same as that man described—he only made eighteen dollars. Numbers of them talked. There was a neighborhood handy to me, where railroad men live, and I often dropped in with them, and talked with them to see what their views are during the week, and that was a leading argument among the common men. I can explain that almost as fully as a road man. I am so familiar with that—any question you wish to ask about it. Double-header is where there is a locomotive put to thirty-six cars, and where they will take about half of that with a single one, and then they would put on a crew to break the cars and attend to them—one conductor and one or two brakemen—the same number that was put on a single train, and they would have to do the work of a number of hands, and they objected to that work—was too heavy, with the mountains and the heavy grades, and with the heavy trains, made their breaking so heavy that it was very hard and dangerous. They complained, of the way they were abused by handling these heavy trains.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did the men appear to think that they should be allowed to make … and higher up, and none of them discharged?

A. They argued, that the pay should not be reduced and the labor increased. They talked against these double-headers, the reduction being made on their wages, and their labor increased by doubling up the train, making their labor heavier and those who were doing the work. This is the shape they objected.

Q. Did you learn whether it was their idea that they should be getting full time, or were they willing that part should be discharged, and then let them make full time?

A. I never heard them express their views on that point, but they complained they were not getting full time. Were standing, waiting for days, looking for a job, and that if they were not there for a moment, they would lose their chance.

J. L. Kennedy, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where is your residence, Mr. Kennedy?

A. Claremont.

Q. What is your official business?

A. Warden of the county work-house, at present.

Q. Were you in July last?

A. I was assistant warden at that time.

Q. State whether the militia under the command of General Brinton came to the work-house, and what you saw and heard?

A. On the Sunday afternoon General Brinton came to the building, about two o'clock, I guess, him and another gentleman from Philadelphia came there in a buggy, and wanted to know if he could put his troops inside. I told him the superintendent was not at home, and I did not feel like them going inside, as they would not be more secure than outside. I advised him to take his men up on the hill in camp. They said they had been driven from the city, and the mob was following them. I told him I did not think there would be much danger in taking the men up on the hill. They would be just as secure. He inquired the way back to Sharpsburg. He had not his troops with him. He was in advance of them. I told him the way to Sharpsburg, and he wanted to know if he could get back without going back on the public road. I told him he could not, unless he would leave his horse there, and walk through the field. He appeared to be very much frightened, and very much demoralized. He started back to meet his troops, and took them upon the hill, and kept them in camp there. The next morning he left, I believe, and put them aboard cars, and took them to Blairsville. In the evening some men came down, and asked if we could give them some provisions. We gave them as much bread as they wanted, and all the meat about the institution. At that time the superintendent came back, and him and I went up, and we saw more bread than the troops had any use for. I believe the poor-house gave them all the coffee they wanted.

Q. Did you converse with the troops any?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see them when they marched up?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did they march in regular order?

A. Some of them, and some did not—kept straggling up there all the evening, after the main body came through, they kept straggling up all the evening. In fact, the next two days they came there one or two at a time. Some of them had their uniforms on, and several came around with citizen's clothes on. The next day after they left, there were two came there, one of them had been wounded. We took him inside, and had our hospital steward dress his wound, and kept him there until we got transportation for them, and they were sent to Blairsville.

Q. Did any of the mob follow them up Sunday?

A. No, sir; no person came after them at all.

Q. Was there any attack made upon this institution, or threatened?

A. It was threatened very strongly, but they never made any attack.

Q. What preparations did you make to meet them?

A. There had been a lot of arms sent out to us through the county commissioners, and we were prepared to meet any emergency.

W. G. Johnson, sworn:

Witness: I do not know that I can give you anything in addition to what you have already had.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. There was information that it was suggested that you might give about something that was done on the south side in the way of protection of the depot or the trains there—of patrolling the approaches to the city on that side.

A. The committee of safety on Monday immediately took steps. They organized military force of the citizens. General Negley had already made a start in that direction, and our committee coöperated with him. In fact, he was a member of that committee. He was in continual correspondence with the committee. Quite a number of military organizations were formed under General Negley's command; among others was that of Major Paul. That was a mounted patrol. The safety committee purchased horses and hired horses for some two or three weeks; had them patrol all the highways and streets at all hours of the day and night, and wherever there was any disturbance they were, of course, sent in that direction to see what was necessary to put it down. I suppose what you refer to is over at the Cork Run tunnel. There were no disturbance there, but there were some threatenings of burning of cars in the tunnel. Major Paul visited that point and scoured the whole country.

Q. Is that on the Allegheny road?

A. No, sir; that is on the Pan Handle. He scoured the country around and found—the only thing he found in that direction in the way of an assemblage was a lot of miners out by Mansfield holding a meeting there. They saw nothing that looked riotous among those miners. They were holding a meeting in regard to the strike at the time. Whether any damage would have arisen to the cars there in Cork Run tunnel, we would see if there were any parties having an eye to it, and Major Paul's command would have kept the post pretty clear.

Q. You do not think of anything new, Mr. Johnson, in relation to the organizations. We had a pretty full explanation of the organization by the citizens.

A. You have had a pretty full explanation through Mr. Park and Mr. McKune and others. They have testified to the main facts in relation to what the committee did. At the very outset the pledging of these individuals to unlimited amounts to restore peace and order. They have already told you of what the nature of the disquiet was on Monday morning. The streets were crowded to excess, apparently by strangers never seen here before, and it looked very threatening, indeed—very alarming. Every precaution was taken by this committee at the time. They were in session continuously from Monday morning until Saturday night, from nine o'clock in the morning until nine o'clock at night, and sometimes until midnight. We were in correspondence with the Secretary of War, as to ammunition, and got all we wanted—arms and ammunition; in correspondence with Governor Hartranft on his route from the west here. We met him on his arrival. Urged him to remain here, thinking his presence would be of great benefit, but he only consented to remain until three o'clock on the following morning. He remained from eight or nine o'clock until three o'clock the following morning, saying he could do us more good by going to Philadelphia to consult with General Hancock, and he would have sufficient force of military here to restore perfect quiet.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. I understood you to say that you organized this citizens' committee—this committee organized of companies—and armed them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did you arm them?

A. We procured arms from the arsenal.

Q. Muskets?

A. Muskets—rifles—Springfield rifles.

Q. What class of men were those you organized into companies?

A. Some of them—some members of them—were men who had been out in the last war.

Q. Were any of them in those companies among the rioters or part of the rioters?

A. Yes; I will explain a little matter of that character. General Negley had his head-quarters in Lafayette hall, and I think it was on Tuesday noon I had left the Chamber of Commerce rooms to go to my dinner, and I noticed a squad of probably sixty men, about as rough looking chaps as I had ever laid eyes on, going through some military motions on Wood street. I saw General Negley on the opposite corner, and I asked him the question whether he was feeding a lot of tramps. We were paying the expense of feeding them. Says he, "You are about right. We are mustering those fellows out." He had taken under his command all that would offer, and he had to sift them out afterwards. He said these he had sifted out, and he was going to muster them out—going to pay them a dollar a piece and tell them "go." The night previous he discovered that some of these men had been among the rioters. They were regular tramps, undoubtedly, and he had these men arrested and sent to the lockup, and found that they had been among the rioters, and these others were undoubtedly tramps of the same character. The city was infested with them at that time.

Q. These men had been armed by your committee, without knowing what class of men they were?

A. General Negley had placed arms in the hands of the men under his control.

Q. Some of them had turned out to be some of the rioters?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. As soon as it was discovered——

A. As soon as it was discovered, those he knew to be rioters he had arrested, and sent to the lockup. The others were picked out by their appearance, and he had them mustered out.

Q. Did you keep any men in these commands you knew were among the rioters?

A. None we knew of. General Negley was very particular in regard to them. My own knowledge in reference to tramps was brought out on Sunday, the day of the riot. I wanted to come to town to see what was going on, and my family persuaded me to remain at home for a double reason. They were not very far from the stock-yards, which were threatened by fire, and the hotel out there, and another reason for my remaining at home was the great number of tramps, that for some days before had been coming along the road and getting food. East Liberty was a great camping ground for these tramps.

Q. Were there more than the usual number of those tramps?

A. A great many more than usual. At that time I did not connect the fact of the unusual number of tramps with the riots.

Q. What direction did they go?

A. Heading towards the city invariably.

J. L. Bigham, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. I now reside in Allegheny.

Q. Are you a member of the National Guard?

A. Yes, sir; I am captain of the Nineteenth regiment, commanding company G, of that regiment.

Q. Were you with your command on the 21st of July?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. State what orders you heard given by General Brown, at the transfer station, in reference to the regiments disbanding?

A. General Brown came in, I suppose, about eleven o'clock. There was some consultation between him and the colonels—Colonel Howard and Colonel Gray. There was some move talked about. I came down and asked Colonel Howard what was to be done, and he said he didn't know, and in a few moments General Brown came up, and directed him to have his arms and equipments concealed in the building, where the mob would not get them when they came in, and dismiss his men there in the sheds, and directed them to find their way home the best way they could, each man for himself.

Q. That was done, was it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was done by you and by the balance of the regiment as to re-assembling?

A. I went home that night. The next morning when I got up—I had breakfast about eight o'clock—everything was on fire then. I got my lieutenant to come out and hunt up some of the men, and sent for my sergeant to have the armory open, and went over to the Union depot to see what was to be done. I saw General Brown there, and asked him if he would allow the regiment to be re-assembled and let us go out to protect the fire department. I got information that the mob had stopped the fire department from work. He says: No, it will exasperate the mob. I saw General Latta, and made the same request of him; he first said our regiment had not behaved well the day before, and there was no use in re-assembling us, and finally he said he would not take the responsibility—refused to allow us to re-assemble and go out. I went from there down to see the adjutant, and told him what occurred, and I understand that he went up by some direction of the colonel, and asked for orders to the same effect. That evening Mayor Philips organized the citizens, and made arrangements to go down and protect one of the lower bridges there. Part of my men were in that, and partly citizens. There were twenty of my muskets used there. I was down at the bridge when Colonel Howard came there, about one o'clock in the morning, and ordered me to re-assemble and report for duty at nine o'clock. I left there, and started men out to order the other men to report, and reported shortly after nine o'clock with a portion of my men, and got the other men gathered by eleven, and we were on duty from that time, continuously, until we were dismissed.

Q. Had the regiment re-assembled as a regiment?

A. They re-assembled as a regiment on Monday morning, and were used in suppressing several disturbances that occurred on Monday.

Q. How many men were together on Monday?

A. I suppose about a hundred men. When the regiment came together, Captain McFarland was not with us. He had been assembled earlier than the rest of the regiment, and was sent up to Second avenue park here, where there was some disturbance, and was kept moving about. I, myself, had only about sixteen men. I and a part of Captain Batchelor's company and a part of Captain Archibald's were taken down to Limerick, where there had been an attack made on some cars. We went down there and came back, and when we came back, the regiment was re-assembled as a regiment. The balance of Captain Bachelor's company and Captain Gordon's company. He had been operating by scattered detachments until near two o'clock.

Q. You remained here until the arrival of the Governor with troops from the east?

A. We remained until I think the night of the 21st of July, when we left for Scranton.

Q. How many men did you have when you left for Scranton?

A. I do not how many, exactly, sir. I think thirty-six men with me, and I think our companies averaged about that—seven companies on duty.

Q. Something over two hundred, then?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What does the regiment number when all the men are present?

A. We had only six companies, of about thirty-five or thirty-six men. There should be forty men to each company. There were one or two companies that ran about fifty men, but usually the companies did not run over forty. We considered turning out thirty-six men as a pretty full turnout.

Q. Were the men obedient—did they perform their duty?

A. I had no trouble. None of my men refusing to obey orders. Two or three of them deserted. I had two of them in jail for it afterwards. There was no disobedience of orders.

Colonel Robert Monroe, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State where you live, if you please?

A. In Allegheny City.

Q. What is your business?

A. Boiler manufacturer.

Q. I do not know what point you are called to testify to, but you may go on and state?

A. I could not say because I saw very little of the riot. I was kept down at the Point. My location is at the Point.

Q. I presume that it is perhaps best to state to us what was done towards protecting the Duquesne depot?

A. I was at the Duquesne depot on Saturday evening. When I first went there, probably, it was four o'clock. Persons that I was acquainted with there, stated there was going to be trouble. People were moving their goods from the houses around the depot. I asked them what the trouble would be, and they said they had been notified to move all their personal effects, as the mob would be down in a short time—to turn out, stating the hour.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did they say who notified them?

A. Persons that came down from the upper depot stated they were to burn it at a certain hour, I think five o'clock was the hour. My place of business was located just below it, and I kept at the lower part of the depot. Between five and six o'clock, there were seven or eight persons congregated at the lower part of the depot, trying to break open the depot. They talked as though they were going to set fire to the depot, and also burn up some cars that were across on Water street siding that was there. They broke open a car door and set fire to one of the cars. There were probably five or six of us standing there at the time. Several remonstrated with them for trying to set fire to the cars—objections were made. They had that on fire and it was kicked out. They got a keg of beer from some store or other, and about six or eight of them drank that keg of beer. They tried to start a fire in a second car, and Mr. Reeves, one of the party, told him he would put a ball through the man that put a match to that car. He asked me for a pistol at the time. He said he had none, but he made that remark to frighten them—the men were intoxicated. A number of us agreed to stick together in case any attack was made, that we could assist each other in resisting these drunken men that were trying to burn the depot and the cars. One young man hammered a good deal at the depot door, trying to get the door started to get in, but did not succeed. The crowd continued there probably an hour—from three quarters of an hour to an hour. Some gentlemen. Doctor Dixon among the rest, came down from the upper end of the depot, hearing that we were there, and, as I understand, they arrested the parties that were drinking and threatening the depot with destruction.

Q. These men intoxicated?

A. Every one of them.

Q. Any other facts?

A. I do not know of anything. I kept down at the Point all the time.

Q. How large was the crowd there; about how many?

A. They gathered towards six o'clock—a pretty large crowd—and at the time I allude to when they were trying to burn the cars in the depot, or wanted to burn the depot—the drunken men—about six or eight. They talked very loud. There were but three of us at first, when we were at the lower part of the depot, and stayed there until we got more force.

John Slagle, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State to the committee where you reside?

A. Allegheny City.

Q. And your business?

A. Business is iron commission merchant, in Pittsburgh.

Q. You may state to the committee any facts—any information—you are in possession of, in regard to the riot, and the means used to suppress it, that have not been already fully gone over?

A. You have got most of the facts that I am conversant with, I expect, Mr. Chairman. During the week preceding the Sunday of the riots, I had learned, through the papers and by hearsay, that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company were going to enforce what was known as the double-header order. I heard of the attack upon Mr. Watt, and the question came up as to what was to be done in reference to it, and on inquiry of some parties, we learned that the railroad company did not suppose it was going to be a very serious strike, or would be very difficult for them to run their trains, as they had a large number of loyal men that would run trains as soon as they issued the order, and the rest would be taken care of. I paid no special attention to the matter, until I heard the military were coming that day. Failing to get their double-header order put into effect by the police, that they had arranged for military, and the excitement began to get up a little; and I remember very well how I felt, for the reason that I had a boy just about the age that boys want to go to such places. He was anxious to go to the scene of the trouble. I charged him that he must not go, and that everybody that went to a place of that sort was a rioter, unless he went there to help put down the strikes, and he had better stay away. As the consequence, I stayed at home, even after the shooting took place that evening. I might say, however, about that, that on Saturday evening I visited the house of my brother, on the hill above, on Centre avenue, and after leaving his house, along about five or six o'clock, to go to my own home, I met some of these soldiers coming, without their guns, on the street. Saw one of them talking to a girl immediately in front of my brother's house, and overheard him say that he had abandoned the field; that the Philadelphia troops had fired on the crowd, and there were a good many people killed and a terrible riot there, and he had abandoned the field, and was going home. I followed to my own home, and stayed there until the citizens were called out, on Sunday at noon, with this exception, that I had watched a little of the operations of what was going on in Allegheny, at the outer depot, and I went that Saturday evening down to the transfer station to see what they were doing there, and found a large number of people—railroad men and others—and in talking with them, I asked what they were doing. They said that they were stopping all trains that came into Allegheny, housing the freights, and seeing that nobody went to Pittsburgh on the passenger trains that had any arms, or was likely to interfere with the strike at the Pennsylvania railroad. One of the men I talked to was a railroad employé, working in the machine shop—the son was a fireman, and the son and father were standing together. Said I, "You do not seem to be among the strikers." "No," he said, "we think it is best to keep off the railroad property in times like this, and we are leaving that to some other fellows." As to my own part, it began on Sunday noon. I was appointed on a committee of twenty-five to see what could be done to stop the burning and riot, and went with the committee to the scene of the fire about one o'clock, and you have heard from Mr. Scoville and others all that Mr. Bennett and Mr. Tuigg, the bishop, and Doctor Donnelly, and Mr. Barr did and said while they were in the railroad yards. I remained in my buggy outside of the railroad yards, and saw a good many people that I knew, and a great many that I did not know, and in answer to a question that was put to me as to what we were doing there, I said these gentlemen that had gone in the yard came there to see if they could not devise some means to stop this burning before there was any further destruction of railroad cars, and especially to save the Union depot. They asked me, "How do you propose to do it?" I stood up in the buggy, and addressed the crowd—told them we wanted to find some of the railroad strikers that could handle the cars, and then we would take them up with citizens to stop the burning. If we could find ten railroaders to handle the cars, we would go into the depot grounds, and stop that fire and save the depot. A fellow on top of the cars says: "You can't do that. We are going to burn clear to the river, and the lower depot as well, before we are done." I looked at the fellow, who was on top of one of the burning cars. They had run it down, and checked the brakes at the side of a freight train, so that the fire would communicate. I had a curiosity to hitch my horse, and climb up and see that fellow. There was three of them. He appeared to be guiding the others, and had charge of the car, and checked it alongside of two other box cars, so that the fire might communicate. He said they were going to burn the whole train—they were going to continue until they burned everything the railroad owned. I got into my buggy and drove a square further toward the round-house, and stopped again and asked the crowd if there was any railroad men who were strikers in that crowd, and at that point a young man came to me in his shirt sleeves, with a handkerchief, says he, "Slagle, you don't remember me. I am a railroader, but not a P.R.R. man." I said, "Can you find any P.R.R. men? They all abandoned the property last night." Says I, "Will you take me to where they can be found?" He said he would, and he jumped in my buggy, and drove me down to Twenty-fourth street. He wouldn't take me any further. Says he, "You stop here, and I will bring them to you." I stopped and sat in my buggy a little while, and, after a while, he came back, and he said he could only find two, but we will go to Twenty-sixth street, and I can find you two or three. I got into the buggy, and drove to Twenty-sixth street, I stopped again at the corner of Twenty-sixth, and he went up toward the railroad, and came back with one man. This man said, "What do you want?" Says I, "We want from ten to twenty railroaders to go to stop this firing before it reaches the depot." Said I, "I don't know you." Says he, "You have got no advantage of me, for I don't know you, and we will go on one condition, that is, I think we can get the men to go on one condition, and that is, that we are protected against arrest for what we have done in the way of striking, for," says he, "we have destroyed no property, and we abandoned it as soon as the mob begun to burn, and we fear we will be arrested, and if you will guarantee us against the arrest, we will arrest the men." I asked him to arrest the men, and I would see about the other. So I took my buggy and drove back, and met some of the other committee coming up—Tuigg, Scoville, Park, and McCune, and others—and we arranged a meeting at Twenty-sixth street, and on the curb-stone we talked it over, and told them we could not guarantee them against arrest, but, if they would come down and help us to put out the fire, and they were arrested, we would go their bail. Three men stepped out, and said they were strikers, and they would go. They started then to find more, and we met again at Twenty-fourth street, I think it was, and had another meeting. At that meeting they arranged to go down to the city hall, and they began to back out a little. At that point I left them, and they arranged with Park and McCune to meet at the city hall, at half past three o'clock, and said they would go with the citizens, and stop the burning. From that point, I had left my young friend, and took the buggy and started, when a fireman says to me, "You are going down town?" Says I, "I guess you are the man I am hunting. We want some one to put out this fire." Says I, "Who are you?" Says he, "I am the chief. I would like to borrow your buggy a little bit. I have got a message to bring men to the elevator." I whipped my horse up a little until we found his own horse, and then he jumped from the buggy. I told him we wanted to get a hose company to go in there, and I thought we could water the fellows off the cars. Says he, "We will get you one, and we will try it." When I got down, he had got a hose company, and started in. They had not thrown long, I think, till somebody cut the hose, and they were backed out, or pushed out of the crowd, and were not allowed to throw water for some cause. This took two hours or more of time, and we came back to a point a short distance above the Union depot, and, while we were conferring with these firemen and some others, a fire was started down below in the back shed. Then I left, and attended this meeting at the city hall. At the city hall you have heard was done there. From there I went to the Duquesne depot, and met this man that Colonel Monroe and Doctor Dixon told you about, and I saw what they were doing. In the meantime, the elevator was burned. I went over to Allegheny, and took some little steps to protect the railroad property at the outer depot and the dispatcher's office. The only point I would like to say anything about after that was this: From that time until the end of the strike, and the trains were running, I was busy every day and every night going back and forth between the railroad employés and officials, and the mayor, and committee of safety. There is one point I have heard much said about, and it is this: I had been in the immediate vicinity of the dispatcher's office in Allegheny, back and forth to see what was going on. I happened to be there about the time that Ross vacated his place, and Ammon took it, and watched a little of the operations by which the trains were run under Ammon's administration, and I saw, with my own eyes, what the trainmen appear very unwilling to testify to, and that was whenever an engine came into that yard it was immediately assailed by from three to twenty men, and the men that were on it were told, called generally by their first name, "You get off, and let that engine be just where she is; this thing has got to be fought out now." Whilst they did not use personal violence in taking a man off a train, I saw a passenger train stand there one hour after it had come away from the Union depot before they could get a crew, for the reason that as fast as they got one fireman on they would intimidate him by threats of violence. It would not be safe for him if he got out of town with the mob and crowd somewhere else, and he had better stay where he was. I have seen three sets of men taken out in an hour before they got enough men to take a passenger train out. I was sent for after the strikers begun to disagree. A man had been displaced from his position there by his fellow strikers, and Ross had been re-instated. It was rumored that man was going to be arrested, that they had a warrant out for him. I was sent for to go to the Chronicle office one day, to know if I would go with Bob Ammon, and see Layng, McCullough, and Thaw, of the railroad. I said I did not want to do so. I didn't want to have anything to do with Ammon; thought he was a bad man; didn't care about it. Ammon had a proposition to make by which he could break the blockade. As a merchant interested in shipping, I agreed to go with Ammon, and I met him at the Chronicle office, went to the railroad office, and stayed there in the building while he was making his proposition to Layng and McCullough and others to break the blockade. I did not hear what his proposition was, for while he was talking to them I was with Solicitor Scott, talking with him. After he came down to Layng's office again they had a warrant for him, but they concluded they would not arrest him then. Then afterwards, it was proposed that Ammon said he could break that blockade—would I go to Allegheny with him, and see if we could. I didn't want to go to Allegheny with Ammon. I thought they were going to kill him over there; finally I consented to go to Allegheny, and did so. This was early in the week after the Sunday. I went over there with him, down Penn street, and went in the street cars, and on the way he introduced me to a railroad passenger conductor, and appeared to be on good terms with him. We went down to the dispatcher's office, and walked along the track, and now says he, "You will see if they are going to kill me or not." We walked together and joined the crowd—one hundred and fifty or two hundred railroaders. I was introduced to one whose name was Cole, from Chicago. I asked Cole what he was doing there, and he had been advised that there was going to be a strike, and he had come there, because he was one of the officers of the union, at Chicago, and he was there in the discharge of his business. I asked where those other men were from. I would not know him again if I would see him. I said, I don't see many of our Allegheny boys, where are they? He said, You can see them over at the hall directly, we are going to have a meeting. Nobody molested Ammon at all. We went to the dispatcher's office, and he looked in and spoke to people that were there, and stayed with me there, for I was going to see what he was going to propose. We then went to a meeting of railroaders in the hall, and at that meeting this citizens' committee and the mayor was present, and as I had not been appointed for that office, I took my place in the back part of the hall. There was about three hundred or four hundred railroaders there, so they said. The hall was jammed full—there was not room for more. They organized by having a chairman and secretary. McCune and Captain Gray, and Mr. Morehead, Mayor Phillips, and somebody else was the committee. They began to call for Slagle, knowing me, being an Allegheny man, and living near there, and knew a good many of their faces. I told them I hadn't anything to say at that meeting; I had come with one of the railroaders, and Mr. McCune was foreman of that committee, and then after awhile they talked the matter over, back and forth, those citizens and railroaders went over their grievances. Here was Ammon's proposition: "Now, I am going to make my proposition; I want you to wait." He got up and addressed the chairman, and they began to hoot at him—howl, you have no right here, you are a scamp, and abused him as though he was a man they did not want to associate with, and the meeting got very boisterous, and the chairman took his position and tapped on the table, and, says he, "Ammon has a right to speak here." Ammon said, "I propose we break this blockade by organizing two or three crews, and I am authorized to say that the engines will be furnished, if we can get the crews to run. I propose that we organize two or three crews, and take the first freight train that is on the track below the city, and run it through to Chicago." I never heard such yelling: throw him out the window, kill him—all sorts of threats were made—but they quieted down, and the result of that meeting was an interview between nine railroaders appointed by that meeting, at the office of the mayor, at which I was invited to be present, and we sat three hours.

Q. At the mayor's office? What mayor?

A. Mayor Phillips. I did not participate in that discussion only to be a witness at the interview between those nine men and the committee, which was all in reference to their illegal possession of property that did not belong them, and they ought to abandon their possession, and give the property back to the railroad company in the condition they left it the first day of the strike. It was understood that the railroad officials had abandoned the property to the strikers, insisting that it had been taken away from them illegally, and they wanted to get possession of their property in a legal way. I believe, Mr. Chairman, except the little part I took with this safety committee in raising money and men to do whatever might be needed, that that is all I know about the strike.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did these men state what their grievances were?

A. It was very clear. They said they had no double-header order to be rescinded, but they were bound to get back this reduction of ten per cent. and to break up this classification of engineers, and they said a great deal on that subject in this boisterous meeting. Some of the speeches were very intemperate and very boisterous—bread or blood—and all that sort of thing, but they were hot-headed fellows. Then other men thought they had made a mistake. They all admitted they had made a mistake in striking and holding possession of the property. They admitted that when we argued it quietly. The mayor argued it with them, and they admitted to him that they had made a mistake in striking, and in abandoning their jobs to the road, and they said they were so organized that the road could not run a train out without the consent of the strikers. Mayor Phillips said to them, "What do you mean by so organized?" Says he, "We have our Brotherhood of Engineers and Trainmen's Union, and they extend all over, and if one man or the association says strike, his train is not to go, and you cannot get any man to run that train, and the road will have to give us what we demand." You have been aware of this movement to save the freight on Saturday, when it was run down the road, and it is not necessary for me to detail that. I might just say this about that: Having lived in Allegheny for twenty years, and several years right down there in the neighborhood of the depot, that I was surprised to find so few of these men that were on the track that afternoon, and other afternoons, to be our own Allegheny railroaders, and in answer to a question that I put to these men, calling to a man named Sourbeer, and one or two others, he said, You must understand that a great many of these trainsmen that are young men that are not married, and have no fixed home, and they are just where their train happens to be. There is a man, for instance, who has a wife and family, lives near Union. The day he is in Allegheny he boards at the house, and a large number of those men that are striking are men that live at the places along the line of the road, and that accounted for why I didn't know more of them.

James P. Barr, being duly sworn, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State your residence?

A. Fourteenth ward of Pittsburgh.