Q. Did you find any of the men you went to arrest?
A. No, sir; my understanding before we started, and on the way there, and afterwards, was, that Mr. Pitcairn was to point out the men to this Constable Richardson, but I have never seen Mr. Pitcairn but once since, and that was before your honorable body, and I saw no men pointed out. There was no attempt made to arrest that I know of, and I think it was very well that it was so.
Q. When you got to a certain point, the crowd resisted your further progress?
A. It was an impossibility to get through, that was just about it. They were there in large numbers. In front of us appeared to be one dense mass of people, for a square or more, and on either side. Of course they gave away to the military, to a certain extent, up to Twenty-eighth street, and there the military halted, and appeared not able to go any further.
Q. When the hollow square was formed, where was the sheriff's posse?
A. The sheriff was just—the last place I saw him was just at what we would call the corner of this hollow square, on the left hand side as you go up. His posse was—the principal part of them—right in front among the crowd—immediately in front. I know that was my position, and there was several others, I noticed, that went with us, that were within a few feet of me at the time the order to charge bayonets was made. I was, perhaps, no further than to that wall, [indicating about fifteen feet,] from where I am sitting to where the charge was made.
Q. Was any attack made upon the sheriff's posse?
A. None that I know of. I was looking for it; but there was nothing of the kind made. We were distinguished by a badge, so that we could have been known by any person.
Q. Did the sheriff say anything to the crowd?
A. He tried to; but the noise was so great I don't think he was heard, only by a very few in the immediate neighborhood.
Q. What did he say?
A. I don't know really what he did say. I could see that he was talking; but I don't know what he did say. He was perhaps twenty (20) feet from me.
Q. Was any attack made on the military by the crowd?
A. Yes; I presume you gentlemen were up there and can understand me. Just where Twenty-eighth street crosses the railroad there is a road which leads diagonally up the hill to the hospital. Just where that road connects with Twenty-eighth street there was a gate that was hung to close up that road. That gate was swung back, about two parts that way, and here was a pile of stones behind it—between it and this fence. There were two men standing behind that gate, and from the time that these men attempted to make a charge, these men commenced throwing stones at the military.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The stones came from the right and front of the military?
A. Yes; and there was quite a number of pieces of coal and other missiles thrown from the front or from this side here. These two men that throwed them were behind this gate.
Q. This gate is east of the street, isn't it—Twenty-eighth street?
A. East of the street; it is to close that road that runs up the hill to the hospital.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. They commenced throwing when the military got in reach?
A. No, sir; not until the time the charge of bayonets was made.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where was it on Twenty-eighth street?
A. Just at the edge of it.
Q. Just reaching the street?
A. Yes, sir. I saw the two soldiers that were struck with missiles. One of them was knocked down. He got up in a minute. When he dropped his cap had dropped off, and when he got up he held his gun in his left hand this way, butt on the street, and he was wiping his face so, [indicating] it was bleeding very profusely. The other one didn't fall; he was struck some place about the shoulder. These are the only two that I saw that I knew to be struck, and it was over in that neighborhood where these two were struck that the firing commenced, the firing was in that direction, over towards the hill. I didn't see any stone thrown immediately in front, but there was coal and other missiles—pieces of sticks and things of that kind.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you any new facts to communicate to us that have not been gone through?
A. I don't know that I have, unless there will be some question occurring to you.
Q. Do you know what efforts were made by the mayor to suppress the riots?
A. I know nothing about that, only from hearsay.
Q. You live in Allegheny City?
A. Yes; I live in Allegheny City. I live on Anderson street—that is, at the far end of the bridge.
Q. Was there any riot over there?
A. We didn't permit it over there.
Q. Was there any strike?
A. Yes; there was a strike, and the railroad, as I understood it, and to all appearance, was in the possession of the strikers. There was no destruction of property.
Q. How large a crowd of strikers was together at any one time?
A. At one time, I suppose, I saw two or three or four hundred together at the outer depot.
Q. What day was that?
A. That was on Sunday. They didn't appear to destroy any property, everything appeared to be just at a stand-still. There was men standing talking, and didn't appear to molest anybody.
Q. What preparations were made by the city authorities of Allegheny City, to protect themselves and to keep down the riot?
A. Meetings of the citizens were called at the public square—the mayor's office—and of course there was a great deal of talk like there is at all these kind of meetings, and a good many propositions made, but the one that was adopted, was, that they should organize the citizens into a military force, and did it, so that General Lesieur—General Lesieur was the colonel of the round-head regiment during the late trouble. He is now a practicing physician in Allegheny City.
Q. What time was it organized?
A. Sunday afternoon or Monday afternoon, the time of the troublest times, anyhow.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Go on?
A. To let you know a part of what was done, I live adjacent to the bridge. There was a piece of artillery planted there, and sixteen men, armed with muskets, stood there as a guard for a week, every night, and I was informed it was so down at the other bridges, and the street cars that run over that line, many of them, were stopped just at the end of the bridge, and one of these military would look in to see who was in. There was persons coming, as I understood, from a distance here, roughs and rowdies, &c., and the object was that they shouldn't come in Allegheny City—they had to go back on this side.
Q. How long did that crowd continue there at the outer depot—of strikers?
A. I don't know the length of time it continued; there was more or less of them there for several days, until the thing got settled.
Q. What was done by the mayor and his subordinates prior to the citizens' meeting in Allegheny City—Mayor Philips?
A. Well, I don't know precisely what was done, it is only from hearsay, and that, of course, is not evidence.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was this meeting called by the mayor?
A. Called by the mayor, as I understood.
Q. Organized a force?
A. Yes, sir. I don't know the number, but the number is quite small, compared with this city. I saw myself, on Sabbath day, a policeman stop two persons that were carrying stuff away, that afternoon, they had got from some of the cars here. It was plunder. They stopped them and took them with them, I presume to the lock-up. I don't know, but I suppose so.
Q. Plunder and all?
A. Plunder and all. A question has been raised here frequently about who gave orders to fire up there. I think I was in a position that I would have known.
Q. That is, at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; I heard no order given by any one, and during the time the firing was in progress, I saw a man that was represented, that I understood to be General Brinton, trying, apparently, to stop it. He was using his sword this way, [indicating,] under their guns, to get them to shoot up or quit. That was the idea conveyed to my mind.
Q. I would like to ask you another question or two in relation to this citizens' meeting in Allegheny City. Were the people generally in Allegheny City unwilling to respond, or did they willingly respond to the call of the mayor, and organize themselves into a military organization.
A. I think so—all that was needed. I think there was no difficulty there.
Q. How large was the response—was the meeting in response to the mayor's call?
A. This thing of fixing numbers is kind of guess work. I don't know. There was two or three hundred, perhaps, when I saw them. I think, if you would call Mayor Philips, he could give you that perhaps better than I could.
Q. Was there anybody who refused, to your knowledge?
A. I don't know of a single one that refused in Allegheny City—I don't know of any.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Mayor Philips take active measures to raise a force for the purpose of preventing or suppressing violence and riot?
A. I so understood that he did.
Q. He did his duty well?
A. I think so; and the evidence of it is, that he had his men at these bridges, guarding them, and keeping them there for a week, a piece of artillery and twelve or sixteen men at every bridge.
George Olnhausen, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Over on the south side, on Carson street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Window glass business.
Q. Were you a member of any of the military companies?
A. Yes; pay-master of the Fourteenth regiment.
Q. On the ground or scene of the riots?
A. Yes; I was there.
Q. What day first?
A. It was on Saturday. We started on Friday afternoon, or rather Saturday morning, to go up there, about four or five o'clock.
Q. Were you there before the arrival of the Philadelphia troops?
A. Yes; we arrived about three or four o'clock.
Q. Colonel Gray and the entire Fourteenth regiment?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he there on Saturday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In command of his regiment?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many men did he have on arrival?
A. On arrival we had twenty-seven officers and one hundred and seventy-eight men on Twenty-eighth street.
Q. How long were you on duty there before the arrival of General Brinton and his troops.
A. I think when we got there it was between four and five o'clock, and stayed there until Brinton came. It was, I think, perhaps two or three o'clock; I think somewheres near that time.
Q. Was anything said or done by Colonel Gray about clearing the track before the arrival of General Brinton?
A. Yes. In the morning when we first got there there was a little excitement—it didn't amount to really very much, but by ten or eleven or twelve o'clock, one, &c., it got on worse all the time; that is, there was a great many more men got there, and Colonel Gray sent me down—I think it was between two and three o'clock—to give Colonel Hartley Howard his compliments, and said, if they would cooperate with them he would clean that track. Colonel Howard acknowledged the compliments, and said he didn't think it was proper to do that.
Q. What regiment did Colonel Gray command?
A. The Nineteenth.
Q. Where was he stationed then?
A. He was laying just about this gate Mr. Fife spoke about here a little while ago.
Q. Where abouts was the Fourteenth regiment then?
A. Right up on the hill.
Q. Commanding the hill?
A. Commanding the hill—that is, we were laying there. I went and reported the matter to the colonel, that Colonel Howard didn't think it was justifiable in doing that, and that ended the matter.
Q. Which officer was senior in command then, Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard?
A. Colonel Gray is senior in command. Colonel Gray sent down that word. I don't suppose that he meant or wanted to shoot or use any extra force, just simply wanted to get them to go away from the track; at least that is my impression.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was the message in the form of an order to Colonel Howard from Colonel Gray?
A. No, sir; I don't think it was in the form of an order. Just simply stating, that, if he would cooperate, they would clear the track together. At that time we had four or five companies, and just as soon as one company would march by they would rush in again, and kept on that way all the time, from ten o'clock until the afternoon. It was very annoying, because the men were very nearly played out.
Q. You may state what condition Colonel Gray's regiment was in, as to obeying orders, and whether it was disposed to obey orders.
A. The majority of the men were. Of course, there were some few that were in sympathy with the strikers. In fact, almost everybody in Pittsburgh was in sympathy with the strikers.
Q. How many of Colonel Gray's regiment was in sympathy with the strikers?
A. I should judge there would be about thirty-two.
Q. That couldn't be depended upon in case of an attack on the mob?
A. I suppose there might not have been that many, not quite thirty-two you couldn't depend on, but there was thirty-two missing that night, and I didn't hear of any of them being shot, and I suppose they must have gone away.
Q. They skulked, in military parlance?
A. Yes; that was generally the case. I would also state, that when we were disbanded at the Union depot we had twenty-eight officers and one hundred and forty-six men. We had one officer more.
Q. When were you disbanded?
A. It was about eleven o'clock Saturday afternoon.
Q. For what purpose—why did you disband?
A. So far as I can learn, as General Brinton gave the orders to Colonel Gray, Colonel Gray gave it to the officers and his men, and he disbanded—staff officers.
Q. I would like the general to explain what he means by disband.
A. He meant that we should go to our homes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Broke ranks for the evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you re-assembled the next morning?
A. No, sir; we didn't re-assemble the next morning. I was over, and a great many of the other officers were over, to see what we could do, but we didn't re-assemble.
Q. To whom did you communicate these facts?
A. I communicated them to a number of persons.
By Senator Clark:
Q. Will you give the names of those persons?
A. I want to state this fact right here, that I understand this committee to be appointed for the purpose of investigating this transaction. Now, with all due respect to the committee, my idea is, that the committee is appointed for the purpose of investigating the facts.
Q. As a regiment you were not re-organized until Monday morning?
A. Yes, sir; a great many of the officers were there, and I suppose a great many of the men. Everything was so exciting we could not get them together.
Q. While you were on the hill, during Saturday, did your soldiers mingle among the rioters, or did they preserve order?
A. They preserved order. There was a few that would get leave of absence to go down street for something or other—very few.
Q. Did they remain in ranks.
A. Remained in ranks.
Q. You staid there until what hour?
A. We all remained there until the Philadelphia regiments were coming up there, and I got instructions from Colonel Grey to have the troops got ready to move.
Q. At what time did you abandon the hill?
A. I think we received orders to move down there about six o'clock. I guess, perhaps, a little later than that—perhaps a little earlier—I am not positive. We marched down there.
Q. Down where?
A. Down the hill, on to the railroad track at Twenty-eighth street, and then down to the transfer depot, and stayed there until eleven o'clock, or near eleven—half past ten, anyway.
Q. Did you hold your position on the hill until six o'clock——
Senator Yutzy: On Saturday, at the time of the firing?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did the Nineteenth regiment remain on the hill?
A. They were laying below us at the gate.
Q. Did they hold their position until six o'clock?
A. There was some of them did, and some of them did not.
Q. How far is the transfer depot from the round-house.
A. I think the transfer depot is on Sixteenth street—six or eight blocks.
Q. Where were the mob when you marched down to the transfer depot?
A. They were mostly all down along the railroad, at Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Did you meet with any resistance in marching down?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where were they when you disbanded, at eleven o'clock?
A. They were most everywhere then, because, it seemed to me, that all the workmen from the south side, Allegheny City, Sharpsburg, and all from the country had come in here, and so far as I could learn, they were going to clean out the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Had the burning commenced when you disbanded?
A. No, sir; not that I know of. When I got home, I could see over that they were burning—that was about twelve o'clock.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Your regiment was resting on the hill, in good order. What position did they have during the day. Were they at rest—stacked arms?
A. Yes, sir; stacked arms, and we had a guard there.
Q. Your men laid close by the arms?
A. Close by the arms.
0. When you broke ranks down by the Union depot, did you have orders to re-assemble at any time?
A. No, sir; we did not.
Q. Who gave the order to break ranks?
A. Colonel Grey gave orders to his regiment. So far as I could learn, General Brown gave him the orders.
Q. Did they take their arms to the armory, or did they go away, each one taking his own gun home with him?
A. Yes, sir; we were not marched to the armory.
Q. Broke ranks right there at the depot?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any mob there at the depot?
A. Yes, sir; they were running all up and down the street, yelling and shouting.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was there any effort made by your regiment on the 19th to clear the crossing, or keep it clear that day?
A. We were there from three or four o'clock in the morning and until the Philadelphians came in that day, and kept it clear.
Q. How happened there to be such a large——
A. That is to say, suppose this was the track. We would go and clear this off, and then they would get in behind us, shouting and howling and cursing. It kept three or four companies going there all day.
Q. Did you undertake to hold possession of the crossing of the track any distance there at the crossing, or merely clear it off and fall back?
A. Then they would rush in behind us, and we would have to send another company.
Q. How happened there to be such a large crowd on the crossing at the time the Philadelphia troops marched up?
A. I think our regiment had orders—that is the companies—had orders to fall back and let the Philadelphians in. Our orders were, so far as I can remember, that we were to go on a train, and go out.
Q. How long previous to the Philadelphia troops coming up there had you fallen back?
A. I suppose it was about a minute.
Q. Some testify that the mob was mixed up with the troops there near the crossing, and on the side of the hill?
A. They were only mixed up in that way, just as I told you.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The troops were mixed in the crowd?
A. Yes; mixing in the crowd.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How; were they on good terms—the crowd and the troops?
A. They didn't say anything. Some of them said they were going to clean out the militia, we didn't take any notice of that at all.
Q. No particular hard feeling by the crowd against your troops?
A. No, sir.
Q. They showed considerable feeling against the Philadelphia troops—it was supposed that they would clear the crossing there.
A. They were, of course, from Philadelphia, and they didn't like them—that was about it.
Q. Could not the force you had there—these two regiments—could not that crossing there, and the immediate neighborhood, been kept clear entirely by the force you had there?
A. I think they could. That is very hard to tell. We didn't know what might have happened.
Q. Were the efforts of the officers directed in that way—to keep it clear?
A. Yes; of course some of our men were in sympathy with the strikers, but if we were to take away two or three regiments, away to different cities or somewhere out away from Pittsburgh, 1 think they could pretty nearly clean out a city of this size.
Q. You don't think they were as firm in their duty as they would have been in some other city?
A. Yes.
Q. They were a little more tender of the people they were dealing with?
A. Yes; they were friends and relatives.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Fraternize with the people—with the crowd?
A. I think if you would take the Fourteenth regiment out, in fact, even in another riot, they would do their duty. All of our officers were men in the army during the war except one or two. It is like all these other things that are unexpected, and like in the war at first; they were all demoralized, and didn't stand up as well as they did in the last part of the war.
Q. Was the military at any time deployed on the railroad track, and any attempt made to drive them off the track in both directions?
A. That was done all the time—they were kept off most of the time.
Q. Were the military deployed along the track of the railroad?
A. Yes; marched back and forward.
Q. Were they stationed with a skirmish line?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. In your opinion, as a military man, couldn't that mob or crowd have been kept off the track by deploying the men along the track as a skirmish line, or, say two skirmish lines, one on each side of the track?
A. No, sir; I don't think it could, unless you did some shooting.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Could it have been done by doing some shooting?
A. If they had shot everybody that came they couldn't have got on.
Q. Could a skirmish line have maintained its position and kept the crowd back?
A. I don't think they could by shooting, for the reason men, women, and children would come in, and they couldn't have kept it clear—not kept the whole track clear.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The reason I asked him that, was that he said the companies marched over on the railroad and they would fall in behind. I want to know if the military had been deployed with two skirmish lines, why they couldn't have kept the crowd away?
A. There was too many people.
Q. Were the people armed?
A. No, sir; not that I saw. They all might have had revolvers and such things as that, but they had no guns.
Q. Did all that crowd appear to be violent and riotous, or were there a great many there that were simply there out of curiosity?
A. Yes; there was a great many out of curiosity—three or four that were working for me.
Q. How many hundred men do you think there were there that were riotous or disposed to be lawless?
A. I should judge—of course it is a pretty hard thing to tell—there was a great many, indeed—two thousand, anyhow.
Q. What proportion of that crowd were disposed to be riotous or lawless?
A. There might have been five hundred in the first place, but after the shooting commenced all were or pretty nearly all.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. At any time before the Philadelphia troops came, could you have or could the military have dispersed the mob at any time?
A. I think they could, yes.
James I. Bennett, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside, Mr. Bennett?
A. Allegheny city is my residence.
Q. Where is your business?
A. In Pittsburgh.
Q. And what is it?
A. Manufacturing of iron nails, &c.
Q. Been engaged in the business a long time?
A. Twenty years or more. About twenty years.
Q. What is your firm name?
A. Graff, Bennett & Co.
Q. Were you in the city during the riots of July last?
A. I was.
Q. Just give us a statement of what you saw, the hour and date commencing——
A. I was not in the riots. I was in the city, but I was not up to the depot until Sunday—until Sunday afternoon. I didn't feel very much concerned. Saturday is generally a busy day with us, but Saturday afternoon I became anxious about the matter. I had been accustomed to be in a good many of these quarrels with laboring men, and supposed the thing would be adjusted; but on coming home on Saturday evening, from what I heard, learned of the condition of affairs, I became considerably alarmed and very much concerned. I live down that side of the river at my residence, about three miles. After going home, I hitched up my buggy, and came back to the city. When I came into the city, the crowd was just coming, I think, out of Bowers' store. They had cleaned out a gun store—hardware store, on Third street. The first intimation I had of that was seeing a man with a gun, and I asked him what was going on. I was satisfied that he had no business with the gun. He told me there was a large crowd of men had been into Bowers' store and broken it open and taken all the arms that they could get there, and that they were marching then to the railroad. At one point I turned around my horse and buggy and drove back to Mr. Thaw's house, which is on Fifth street. I went to Mr. Thaw's house and I called him out, and we talked about the matter. Thaw didn't appear to be alarmed; he said he was going to his business. He thought there was no danger. I went up again to Third street and Fifth street, and was satisfied in my mind that there was a great deal of trouble, or was likely to be a great deal, and I went back to Mr. Thaw. He spoke of the military coming in, and he thought there was enough to protect. I advised him not to go up to the offices of the Fort Wayne road at all. I think I went back to Mr. Thaw's house the third time, and he then appeared to be very much more concerned and alarmed this time. I think one of his neighbors came down that had been up there. I left him then, and on my way home, in Allegheny city, I went to Mr. McCullough's house. We sat until perhaps eleven o'clock, talking together. Mr. McCullough at first felt entirely satisfied that the military would be sufficient to prevent any serious damage. I felt very much concerned, and advised him to be very careful and not put himself in the way of danger or any trouble.
Q. Who is Mr. McCullough?
A. Mr. McCullough is vice president of the Pennsylvania Company. He is managing man of the Pennsylvania Company's lines.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I would like you to state what the Pennsylvania lines were?
A. The leased lines west of this.
Q. Pennsylvania Central?
A. Their offices are altogether; but they are connecting lines. I live in Allegheny city, and I felt concerned——
Q. What is Mr. McCollough's first name?
A. J. M. He told me there was a regiment coming up on the line of the road that night, and that there was a sufficient number of troops coming in that would prevent any trouble. He felt secure; but, as I said before, I did not. I told him that there was trouble certain ahead, and I felt very much concerned from what I could learn all around, that there was gathering into our city a very bad set of men, and it was hard to tell what the consequences might be. I left him, and started home about eleven o'clock, or perhaps a little after eleven. I got down to Strawberry lane, which is below the shops of the Fort Wayne road. I drove right into a crowd, I presume, of several thousand persons. I had come up that way that night, and there was no person there.
Q. The evening before?
A. That same evening. There were no parties there when I came up, and I drove in and called some of them to know what it meant. I was considerably taken aback, coming unexpected into it, and they told me they were waiting for a train of soldiers that were coming up. Three or four came out that knew me, and said, "Don't you go away;" says I, "Why?" Says he, "they have rifle pits just above there, and if the train comes in you will be in the line of their fire," and I was in sight of my house and my family was there, and I could see the situation, and drove rapidly past them, after inquiring what was going on there. When I came to the bridge crossing, perhaps, a quarter of a mile below there, as I drove up there, there appeared to be sentinels stationed along the line of the railroad across this bridge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At what point was this?
A. A quarter of a mile below this place where they were waiting.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. On the line of the Fort Wayne and Chicago?
A. They were there patrolling the streets with their guns, as orderly as any soldiers. They were all very sober and polite men, nothing like rioters, and ladies from the adjoining neighborhood had come down to the bridge to see—that was the only place they could see anything—and about the time they expected the train in, these men had gone up to them and asked them to retire back behind the hill, lest a stray shot would reach them. There appeared to be a perfect organization.
Q. What bridge?
A. This was a bridge in Allegheny City, below the outer depot of the Fort Wayne.
Q. Bridge across the railroad?
A. Bridge across the railroad. There appeared to be an entirely perfect organization on that side of the river. They were armed, and were sober men. Some of them knew me—they all knew me—I could not name a great many of them, but most of them knew me.
Q. Were they railroad men—employés?
A. There were a great many of them employés. I was told by other persons they were employés. I could not tell certain, but I made an inquiry, and was told that a great many of those men were employés of the railroad company, and this organization appeared to me to be very perfect, and they were very orderly, and appeared to be very systematic. There was no fighting in this tremendous crowd above. The crowd was there, but they were orderly—no quarreling nor fighting going on.
Q. Were they all men that were in that crowd?
A. No; there was a great many boys, but the most of them were men. I think the great majority of them were men. I stayed there until about twelve o'clock at night, about half past twelve or one, and the report came down about the firing on this side, and the burning of the round-house, and the soldiers having been burned up. We were all very much alarmed. I could do nothing but stay at home, seeing the crowd there, and not knowing what was coming, but in the morning I came to town—on Sunday morning. I stopped in Allegheny, and saw one or two gentlemen, and got them to go over with me. I went to Mr. Barr's office at the Post, but he was not there. He had been there, but had gone out to the outer depot of the Pennsylvania railroad. I went around and saw some other parties, and went down to the Chronicle office. Mr. Sieblich was there, and, I think, the Dispatch people. At the office there were posters out, one for a public meeting of the citizens at twelve o'clock—at half past twelve, at the old city hall, notices of which were then sent to the different churches, that there would be a citizens' meeting—to be read from the pulpits in that neighborhood. There was a large number of churches in the neighborhood There were no citizens but what were extremely anxious to do anything and everything they could do, but they appeared to be paralyzed, and did not know what to do. The reports came in that the military had gone, and that the mob had everything in their own hands, and no one appeared to know just how things stood. That meeting came together, and they adjourned to the mayor's office. I understood that there was a reason for that: that the city hall then was used as an armory, and they had adjourned, as they did not think it was prudent to open that. Some gentlemen I was talking to had made a suggestion that we should go and see Bishop Tuigg, and some other parties who would go out, and see what persuasion would do, and there was no man that was more extensively known than Bishop Tuigg. He said he would do so, and they proposed to get another minister that he would nominate himself to go along with him. At our meeting in the mayor's office, the minister of the First church, Mr. Scoville, was at the meeting, and Mr. Scoville accompanied Bishop Tuigg. Mr. Parke and some other gentlemen went up. At this time the fire had got down—it had burned all the way down to the old market-house—that is a few squares above the depot. We went up, and he addressed these people.
By Senator Yutzy.
Q. Who addressed them?
A. Bishop Tuigg. He did everything he could to get these people to desist. I saw a few there that I knew of our own people, and these I do say were not engaged in burning. After that, we went up to try and find the engineers of the railroad—locomotive engineers. We went up to see them. We got some of the citizens to go to their houses and tell them that we would meet them. We went up there, and were not able to meet any, but two or three of them at a time came in, and Mr. Slagle remained there. Bishop Tuigg and the Reverend Scoville and I went over there to Allegheny City to see the officials of the Pennsylvania Company and Pennsylvania railroad. Mr. Cassatt was there, Mr. Thaw, Mr. McCullough, and their solicitor, Senator Scott. We talked with them upon the subject, but previous to that I had gone down to the Monongahela house, and had met Mr. Cassatt there, and I think Mr. Quay, and a number of gentlemen that were there. I took him in my buggy and took him across to Allegheny City.
Q. Mr. Cassatt?
A. And left him there with the other gentlemen connected with the railroad.
Q. What is Mr. Thaw's first name?
A. William Thaw.
Q. What is his official position?
A. He is also connected with the Pennsylvania Company, in charge of the leased lines of the Pennsylvania railroad.
Q. In what capacity?
A. I think he is vice president.
Q. Mr. Cassatt is connected with what road?
A. Connected with the Pennsylvania Central.
Q. And Mr. Thaw with the Pennsylvania?
A. Mr. Thaw with the Pennsylvania. Mr. Cassatt was at the Monongahela house, and these gentlemen had connection with the two roads running together. He said he would like to go over. I said I would take him over, and took him in my open buggy, which he did not appear to relish very well just at that moment, but really there was no danger. I went down and crossed the lower bridge, and over into the street where Mr. Layng is living. I do not think we saw fifty people. The people had gone up to the fire. Allegheny City was at that time as quiet as it is on any Sabbath day, outside of the immediate neighborhood of the depot. I met no person on Sunday who was not just as anxious as they could be to do anything and everything they could to put down the rebellion, as I called it, for as I have said, I never could recognize it as a riot or anything else than an uprising of the people. On our own side of the river it was comparative quietness, but these men were settled on having their own way. If they had not commenced it before, it was not likely that they could organize as quickly and as thoroughly as they had done.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the result of the interview with Cassatt and McCullough and Thaw?
A. I think Bishop Tuigg asked them to make some concessions to those parties, which they declined to make. I think the bishop's idea was to have some little concession made, and the difficulty might be adjusted as between the men and them. That was declined on their part.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What reason did they give?
A. The reason, so far as I understood it at the time it was given, was this: That they would not make any arrangement with men that were in open rebellion against law, and everything of that kind—could not recognize anything of that kind.
Q. What did your committee do then?
A. We came back to the city again, and there was a meeting in the afternoon, and I was at the mayor's office again in the afternoon. The mayor appeared to be entirely powerless. He had no police to do anything with, that amounted to anything. After that we then went to work and organized a citizens' meeting, which was perfected on the next Monday morning, and everything was done by those men that could be done. I do not think I ever saw men work more earnestly in trying to protect the city, and railroad, and everything else.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. At whose instance was the citizens' meeting organized—who were the movers in it?
A. The first I recollect of it was the bulletin boards that were put out on Sunday—that was as soon as the citizens could be got together.
Q. What bulletin boards?
A. The bulletin boards of the Post, and, I think, the Dispatch, the Commercial and Gazette, and I think the Chronicle and Leader. They are nearly all in that neighborhood. I think Mr. Barr was at the organization of the meeting. He was at the meeting they had on Sunday and Monday morning. The citizens were called together again and adjourned until Monday morning. There were a good many of our leading manufacturers that were out of the city, their families were out in the country, and they had gone out on Saturday.
Q. How long did that crowd you speak of in Allegheny City, that you ran into on Saturday nights—how long had that crowd remained in force there?
A. They were there I think nearly all that night. They were away the next morning. When I came up the next morning they were not there, that is, there was no crowd in comparison to what had been there—perhaps not more than usual there.
Q. There were some there?
A. There were some few that were there. They had possession then of the trains.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The strikers had?
A. The strikers had possession of the trains on Sunday morning. They were in possession there at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many were engaged in actual riot and arson out at Twenty-eighth street, when you were there with the bishop?
A. I do not think it was so far as Twenty-eighth street—it was within a few squares of the depot. It would be impossible for any one to say how many were actually engaged in it, but the whole railway connection, so far as you could see, was filled with people on both sides of it—the street on both sides of the railway track. The number that was engaged in it appeared to be but few compared with the great crowd that was there—very few.
Q. What class was the crowd that was there composed of?
A. The citizens you speak of along the street?
Q. Yes?
A. There appeared to be a general outpouring from the entire city—every person. They were attracted there from every place.
Q. By curiosity?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They were lookers-on?
A. They were lookers-on.
Q. Was there a crowd of sympathizers around, immediately around these parties that were engaged in actual riot and arson?
A. There were some that were sympathizers, but so far as my own knowledge went, men of any standing expressed no sympathy with them. A great many of the workingmen felt that the railroad was oppressing these men, and they were in sympathy with them—that is not taking any part in it. There were a great many of our laboring men that were there in their Sunday clothes that were taking no part, but walking around, and a great many of them absolutely appeared to me to be alarmed and frightened. That paralyzed them—not doing anything. I begged of the men, for their own sakes, to try and stop that, and they felt as though their lives were at stake in doing it. They were afraid to say a word; did not know who was their friend or enemy. The men appeared to be going on in a quiet way without saying much to anybody, except this crowd that was before us—we were right in the immediate neighborhood of the burning—as rough a looking set of characters as I ever saw. I have no desire to get amongst such a crowd again very soon.
Q. Were these men laborers or men that you had ever seen in and about Pittsburgh?
A. I could not say that any I saw in the burning were men I ever saw before—could not say that they were men I ever saw before.
Q. Could you tell from their dress what class of people they were?
A. It would be very hard to tell that. I saw a great many of our own men walking around looking on that were employed with us at our mills.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have you an extensive acquaintance with the laboring men?
A. I know a great many of them by sight, and where they work. At the two mills were employed six or seven hundred men, one way or another; and back and forwards I have become quite familiar with them, without knowing their names. Indeed, all the laboring men about the mills, as a general rule they know me by sight, and I know a great many that have worked with us, that are not working with us now, among the better class of mill men and laboring men about the mills. I do not think they were engaged. We have some men engaged with us that are very bad men.
Q. What was it that alarmed you on Saturday and made you apprehensive of the future on Saturday afternoon?
A. What alarmed me first was this, when I began to make an inquiry—that our mills all stopped on Saturday from eleven to twelve o'clock, and the men about the mills had from one to two o'clock. They usually dressed, and generally we see them about in the city, and they are free from any employment. You can imagine the number of laboring men there are about the city; and that, as a rule, would apply to nearly all branches of manufacture.
Q. From your knowledge of the city and manufacturing establishments, give us an estimate of the number of laborers that would be out of employment and at leisure on Saturday afternoon.
A. I could not give you an estimate. I should say you could count it at thousands, though—thousands of men that would be unemployed at that time.
Q. Have you any idea of the number of thousands of laborers employed in and about Pittsburgh?
A. I could not give any correct estimate of that.
Q. Have you had experience before with strikers? Has there been strikes?
A. I have had a great deal to do with them at one time and another in our own business—men that we had employed ourselves.
Q. Is it a thing of very frequent occurrence—strikes among laboring men?
A. It is a common thing, but not so very frequent, these large strikes—what we would call large strikes, where the mill hands in all the mills strike. We frequently have difficulties of that kind in our own mill when it does not occur in any others—upon a particular branch of the business; something of that kind. We have had a number of very large strikes here in the city where all the rolling mills were stopped at one time.
Q. And it was your experience with the strikes, and knowing the number of men that would be idle Saturday afternoon, that made you apprehensive of the result?
A. That made me apprehensive; because these men were idle. They were all idle, and a great many of them are men. For instance, to explain more fully to you: A man comes along and he wants labor. We have our labor bosses. We do not inquire into his character, or anything else. If we need a man badly we put him in. He may be one of the worst men possible, and we may have quite a number of these men about our mills without knowing it. Tramps may come into our town, and if it is a time that labor is a little scarce, we might have fifty of them about us without knowing it—if they behave themselves just whilst they are employed. Bad men may come in and settle down upon us in that way.
Q. Had you been up at the scene of the riot before Sunday?
A. No, sir; I had not been there before that.
Q. Did you at any time during the riot have any talk with the rioters themselves, or the railroad employés, to ascertain their grievances, or the causes of the strike?
A. Not on the Pennsylvania railroad; but I did on the other side of the river, with them over there.
Q. Go on and give us the facts.
A. I had on the Fort Wayne and Chicago. I was among these men at the shops. I went over there one night or two in the shops with those men, talking to them, and they claimed that the railroad company had ground them down; that their wages were such that they could not live. That was their real grievance, and they wanted their wages restored. And they complained of a large portion of the men unnecessarily being thrown out of employment by doubling up the trains. That was the complaint. They had their unions—there are unions existing among the laboring men in our mills. Puddlers have their unions, and we have what is called "The Amalgamated Iron Works Union," which embraces nearly all. The railroad employés had their unions. These unions are all in sympathy with each other, and as a rule, will aid each other. There would be a sympathy existing among these men of all classes, for they felt that they were oppressed by the railroad company; and, as I say, they had the sympathy of the other workingmen of nearly every class—there can be no question of that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Are these unions secret organizations?
A. Yes, sir; I think they are all secret organizations. I have never known any that were not secret organizations. I was there with them, and after some time Mr. McCullough—I don't recollect what day it was—I was with Mr. McCullough, at his office, to get information. Telegraphs were coming there, and I went there to get the news—to see what was going on along the road. Mr. McCullough had not seen any of the men of his own road. I got a gentleman to go and see them and tell them that I thought there should be an interview between them and Mr. McCullough, and I arranged that interview. I think there was one engineer, a fireman, a brakeman, and a conductor—there were four, and they agreed to meet Mr. McCullough, and I went with them and made the arrangement to meet at B. F. Jones' house in Allegheny City. Mr. McCullough came there and met them, and Mr. Layng also. They had a conversation there.
Q. Give us the summary of that conversation?
A. They stated to Mr. McCullough what the grievances were with regard to what the hands wanted. A portion of them denied that they had anything to do with the strike.
Q. That was after the Sunday?
A. This was after the Sunday of the burning. Mr. McCullough talked with them, and the interview was a very pleasant one. Mr. McCullough said he would do all that he could to have everything made right and satisfactory to them whenever the property was once placed in their hands, but whilst they stood out and kept them from their property he could not do anything at all. I told these men—I said to them afterwards that Mr. McCullough was right in his position; that they were in violation of law, and they claimed they were there, and they were not interfering with anybody nor anything, nor had they purposed to interfere with anybody. I told them that their simple presence was enough to show that they were in sympathy with these people. They might almost as well be guilty as to be doing what they were doing. I went down and talked to a number of the engineers with regard to the matter. As a rule, they were vary reticent and very careful about giving any expression at all.
Q. Did they claim a right to stop trains—interfere with trains?
A. Of course, they didn't to me. They were men of too good sense. They denied having anything to do with it. It was always somebody else. As I said, they were there giving countenance.
Q. How did these people define a strike?
A. They said this was not a strike of the engineers. This was a strike of the firemen—the firemen and brakemen, I believe. They threw it on them. I thought things were settled, and they were going to work. I came up and said, "Boys, how is it, I thought you were going to work" They said they were going to have a meeting, and asked me to go with them. I said I would go. They said they were going to have it then. I went down to the meeting in the Odd Fellows' Hall, and went in with them, and was there, and they denied that it was them solely. They said the engineers had as much to do with it as they had—just the same—and that they were encouraging them. I stated to them, then, that I would do all I could to have their pay made right, but there was only one way to do it, that I could see, and that was to report themselves ready for work, and take their positions, and after the road was once running, and in order, then the citizens would see to it that their case was properly represented, and that they would be more likely to get their rights in that way than in any other.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At this time they had possession of the railroad property?
A. They disclaimed having possession of the property. They would not admit that fact. They appeared to understand that that was in violation of the law.
Q. Was that the fact?
A. This was the fact—there was no doubt of that. You could not get any of them to admit it, though.
Q. Did they understand that they had no right to interfere with the running of trains, or with any other employé who desired to work?
A. They denied interfering with any employé. There never was a man yet that said he interfered with any one—never got an admission of that kind from any one. They said if a man wanted to go to work, there was his engine. At the same time, Mr. Layng, superintendent of the road, whilst he was but a few squares from the depot, I think he didn't care about going over to the railroad at that time, I met them the same day, and they went and reported themselves to the officers at the outer depot, and went to work.
Q. From the interviews that you had with the railroad employés, what did you gather as being the cause—the real cause of the strike?
A. From all I could gather from the employés in one way or another, my impression is that it was an organization. That perhaps the strike was a little sooner than was intended. It was a regular organization, intending to make a general strike throughout the whole country at the same time, and it was not the intention to be commenced at Pittsburgh. I think it was all over our country. We might call it an insurrection of these people to take possession and enforce their demands on the people. They then knew that the other labor organizations were in sympathy with them.
Q. What led you to that conclusion?
A. From the fact that these uprisings at Fort Wayne and Chicago and St. Louis, and on the line of the Baltimore and Ohio and Altoona and Harrisburg and Philadelphia. If it had been of an ordinary character, it would have had no influence, except where it originated.
Q. Did you ascertain from the men that there was any communication between the rioters here and the rioters at the other places you have mentioned?
A. I think one told me that they were in possession of the telegraph lines, and knew all that was going on, and one stated to me at one time something like this: He says, "We knew what was going on, because one of the men with us is an operator, who stood outside of the window, and he could hear the instrument and could tell us what was going over the line." I think they had possession of the telegraph line, and a good many were operators.
Q. He told you they knew what was going on—that was between the authorities, &c., in reference to the matter; but did he say that they had any communication through the rioters themselves by telegraph?
A. No; I do not know that any one admitted anything of the kind. They were very careful in making any admissions. These men you will find, so far as the law was concerned, they really understood that as well as any other class of men, where they are liable and where they are not.
Q. The strikes at Fort Wayne and Chicago and Altoona and Philadelphia that you have mentioned, were not until after the strike here—were they?
A. I think it was almost simultaneous—it was very nearly the same time—on the Sunday following right along—immediately on the heels of it, and I should think it was all during two or three days.
Q. Do you know what days the strike was at its height in Chicago?
A. No.
Q. Nor Fort Wayne?
A. I have no recollection now of just when this was, for I took no note of that.
Q. Nor in Philadelphia?
A. Nor in Philadelphia. I think it was unfortunate that they attempted to start these trains out—these double-headers here on Saturday.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. Why?
A. Because there were so many men loose—the laboring men of our town—you may say that certainly four fifths of the laboring men were unemployed after twelve or one o'clock, and that is the best reason I could give you for it. If I was going to do anything to a crowd, I should have postponed it until these men were at work. I think it was unfortunate, because, as I stated before, we all knew of the existence of these organizations, and we knew that these men that were in these organizations were all in sympathy, the one with the other.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was the fact that there would be so large a number of unemployed men on Saturday afternoon, known to the railroad officers?
A. I do not know that of my own knowledge. Mr. James Park, I think, told me that he had remonstrated with some of the railroad officials—I think he had spoken to Mr. Cassatt on the subject.
Q. Did you have any conversation?
A. I had no conversation on the subject, because I was engaged and busy on Saturday, and was not alarmed in regard to this. Mr. Park's manufacturing establishment was in the immediate vicinity of the trouble, and you might say he was in it. He was located right in it, and he was there, and I think what I say in regard to that, will be the testimony of every manufacturer in the city. I believe if the thing had been left until Monday or Tuesday, that the probabilities are that men would be generally about their employment at one thing or another, that there might have been no burning here at all. We might have had trouble and loss of life, and things of that kind. Why I say I think there was an organization, when I went home on Saturday night, coming up after dark, they were expecting this train in. These men certainly knew that train was coming with soldiers, and they were prepared to meet them. They were orderly—a quarter of a mile below, at the bridge—there appeared to be entirely too much order for a riot. When there is a riot, they generally do things up very quickly, without regard to who is in the way. These men were orderly and systematic.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This train you speak of—was that train from Erie?
A. I think that was the Erie train. Mr. McCullough told me he expected that train in. I was informed that they had no ammunition or anything of that kind.
Q. These men you conversed with gave as a reason for their strike that the wages were so low they could not live?
A. That was the general complaint.
Q. Do you know what they were actually getting?
A. I did know, and I had it from the railroad officials—I had it from them, but I have forgotten what it was.
Q. Were any of them getting less than a dollar a day—trainmen?
A. I think they were paid by the trip, but I do not recollect that any of them were getting less than that. I would not speak positively in regard to that. It may be possible. I have a memorandum of that in my pocket-book. I never expected to be called before a committee, or I would have saved some of these things that I had. It may be I have something here that will enable me to answer that question.
Q. If you find it hereafter you can send it to us, and we can attach it to your testimony.
A. It was a copy of a telegraph—you asked me a question; it would have answered it. It was a copy of a telegraph I had sent to Mr. McCullough on the subject, and his reply to it, but I think that, supposing that the thing was ended, my impression is that I have destroyed it.
Q. Have you anything else to communicate, Mr. Bennett?
A. Nothing; but I would bear testimony to the fact that the citizens of Pittsburgh appeared to be anxious to do everything they could to put down this riot, and there was no sympathy with the rioters—none whatever.
Q. You had a good deal to do in raising the force of citizens to put down the riot?
A. I had, perhaps. The first move, I told you, was on Sunday. A good many of my most intimate acquaintances were among the rolling mills, and quite a large number of them were out of the city. I sent for Mr. Park.
Q. Did you meet with any opposition in your efforts to raise the men?
A. Not a single instance. Upon the contrary, every man I saw was anxious to do anything, and were willing and did go up there at the risk of their lives, to do everything they could do, and no man I met anywhere at all, among my own acquaintances, but what were ready to do anything they would deem in reason, to try to stop it; and I think it was stopped by the citizens at last. I was not present, but from what I heard afterwards, the citizens prevented the burning of the Fort Wayne depot.
Q. Was there any move by the citizens prior to Sunday morning?
A. Not that I know of. I have no knowledge of any—no recollection of any now. It was early Sunday morning that they set fire to things in the first place, and the citizens appeared to be completely paralyzed. I saw men coming along, carrying provisions, bacon, hams, and articles that they had taken from the cars they had broken open—carrying them away back two or three miles into the country, and I saw them walking along the streets, and it appeared to me that people were afraid to say a word to them. They were alarmed—they did not know what to make of it. It appeared to come upon them like a clap of thunder—they were unprepared for it in any way. I never saw men labor more earnestly, and labor harder to try to do their whole duty than that citizens' committee did. It was through their individual efforts that there was an additional police, and it was by private subscription to pay these men, that they were put upon the force. Our city was in a helpless condition, and these bad men, of which we have a large number around the city—they knew exactly what the police force was, better than we did.
Q. Did you know the police force had been reduced in the city, and, if so, when were you informed of that fact?
A. I had no knowledge that our city was in so helpless a condition. I was amazed when I heard it.
Q. Was it known to the business men—I mean generally—that your city was in such a condition, in regard to the police force?
A. I do not think they generally understood the matter. They might have been under the impression that there was a reduction of police, but so few——
Q. Was it the subject of conversation when it became known?
A. Of course it was, and the very moment it was discovered, they sought to apply the remedy by making contributions of money themselves, to have the force put on, and agreeing to pay for it.
Q. Did you have any talk with the mayor yourself in relation to that subject?
A. 1 did, at his office. He told me then that he had no power to do anything, but expressed a willingness and a desire to do anything he could, and I do not think that any suggestion I made to him, he ever refused to do anything it was in his power to do.
Q. What day was that?
A. I had a conversation with him on Sunday, and again on Monday, and as I met him at different times, I would have a talk with the mayor.
Q. Was it known to you that the mayor had full authority and control over the police, to increase the number of police, or to call out—was it known to you that he had the same authority that the sheriff had in calling out the police?
A. No, sir; it was not.
Q. Did he make any proclamation calling for police?
A. He made some proclamation. I cannot tell you what it was—do not recollect what it was.
Q. Did you ever examine to see what powers are given to the mayor by your city charter?
A. I did not in regard to Allegheny City. After Sunday, I was more with Mayor Phillips, and more on that side than I was on this. I believe Colonel Scott telegraphed to me himself, and said that they would commence laying the tracks, if their men would be protected, and I went to Mr. Shinn and got him to send an answer to him that they would be, and I would lay the matter before the committee the next morning. Immediately on the committee convening, I brought the matter before them, and the committee answered Colonel Scott that they would be protected. I went out of the committee myself, and started up to meet Mr. Pitcairn at the office of Mr. Layng, and stated to Mr. Layng in regard to that telegram, and my own impression that they should put the men on to work to feel their way, and if they were interfered with to withdraw them, that I believed that before night would come that they would have more men than they would know what to do with, and that was the result. I spoke of being out on Sunday and not seeing any of the officials of the railroad at all. I think they did right. I do not think it would have been prudent for them to be there. I advised those I knew to keep away. You could not tell to what extent this excitement would lead a man, nor you could not tell how bad men were. They might have been seriously injured, if not killed, if any one of them had gone into a crowd of that kind.