REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877.

A. Yes; they were there present, and one of them, when I was addressing the crowd, made the remark to me that they wouldn't put confidence in any man, no matter what he said, and that man I would know again. He was one of them, and he was an aider and abettor. I have gone frequently around the depot since; and I think he was employed by the company. I would know him if I was to see him. The other man, that threw the piece of iron ore at my head, I would know him. I have never met him.

Q. Do you know whether any of your command—of your company had been called upon by the sheriff to join his posse to suppress the riot the day before, or at any time.

A. I don't know whether they ever had or not. I don't think the sheriff was about on Sunday.

A. I don't know whether he was Saturday night or not. I don't know, sir, anything about the sheriff and his posse. There was no sheriff or posse that I saw at all.

Q. Were you at the Union depot at any time during the riots of July last—first you may state where you reside?

A. I got notice from my colonel, who is captain of the Black Hussars, who sent a man to me with a note that one of his men lost a cap on the road, and for me to bring him one. I went out myself and met them at the depot there—the Black Hussars, and I saw—I suppose it was the First regiment or Second Philadelphia—the infantry getting ready to march out the track; and I was talking to my colonel, and asking him how things goes, and what he came on here for. Says he: "I don't know." He says: "I suppose we came on here to keep peace here in Pittsburgh." I staid there with him for about an hour and a half. I told him, says I: "Colonel, you better come down to my house. There is nothing going on here. It is all nonsense to remain here. Leave your men here and come down with me;" and so he did.

A. Captain Chues, of the Black Hussars. He was my colonel in the army. We went down home and got something to eat and a few glasses of beer, and all at once an orderly sent word to say: "Captain hurry up, they are firing on front." I went out with him to the depot, and staid there until dark with him. They had charge of the ammunition from General Brinton, at the Union depot. I staid there until dark, and the infantry was out, and a great many people passing along Liberty street, and hollering and cheering over to the boys, but they didn't take any notice. I told the colonel, says I, "never mind, just leave them talk and mind their own business." So they did, I says, "colonel, I am going home. I will be back again in a short time." I had to see how business was at home. Everything was upside down in the city. I came back about eight o'clock, and went to the depot again, and I found there was nobody there. I asked where they were, and they said they were in the round-house. I could not go out there, because I was alone myself, and I understood they were at the same time in the Union depot, up stairs—all of them—hid up.

A. I had it from Major Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, whose company was there stationed in the Union depot. This was after this.

A. He says "they are not there." Then I went back home again in the street cars, and I see a great mob making raids on the bonds for whisky—anything they could find—nearly opposite the street car where I was in. I went home. About twelve o'clock I went to the depot again. I thought it was the best thing for me to see where these boys are.

A. Yes. I went out with one of my men to find out where they were. I saw General Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, right at the gate where the train comes in. I went to him. Says I, "Do you know anything about the Black Hussars." Says he, "Captain, I don't." Says I, "Are they in the round-house." Says he, "I don't know anything about it." I went out over where the ammunition was, and didn't see anybody except two or three watchmen around with lanterns. I ask them where they were, and they said they didn't know, that they must be in the round-house. I couldn't believe it, because I know Colonel Clines ain't going to block himself up in a cage. Says I, "If I can't find them, there is no use for me to go out in the round-house." I went home again, and couldn't get any satisfaction. All at once, Sergeant Wilder, from Philadelphia, orderly sergeant of the company of Black Hussars, about half-past two o'clock in the morning, I was sitting on the bed, and he asked some policeman where my house was, and he told him he didn't know. Everybody knows me, where my house is, especially policemen, and he says he didn't know where Captain Gallisath lived. He passed my house two or three times before he could find it. All at once, he asked somebody, and they told him, and he rang the bell, and I was sitting on the bed. I was not going to undress until I heard some news. A darkey, he showed him the road. He came up and told me the whole thing as it stands. Says he, "We are in the Union depot, and I don't know how to get out." I got all my boys up, and said they should throw out every stitch of clothes they had in their possession. I went out and took them all out in two squads over the hill. They couldn't get through Liberty street.

A. There was sixteen or seventeen. I think there was seventeen. I kept them there until I got word from General Brinton, and I took them over to the West Penn road, and sent them home. General Pearson, I suppose, gave them a pass. The Black Hussars were on the road to Philadelphia, and were telegraphed to come back to the junction again.

Q. They were placed in the Union depot to guard the ammunition, Captain Clines at the head?

Q. Was that all that came there Saturday—Saturday afternoon—sixteen in number?

A. That is all they had, seventeen—I suppose it was seventeen—I had them in my house. They had nothing but sabers. They had no carbines nor pistols nor anything.

A. General Brinton gave Captain Clines orders to take charge of the ammunition, so they could ship it to the front, but they never came back again, the Philadelphia troops.

A. No; they were up in the round-house, and Sunday morning went away to the other side of the river.

A. The understanding was, that they were cut off from General Brinton, and nobody knew the ammunition was in there, except himself and his boys.

A. I am very well satisfied he couldn't take it away. I heard the cartridges cracking around there on Sunday when they burned up. General Brinton had no ammunition, whatever, when he was cut off, and he couldn't get none—not what he brought from Philadelphia.

A. They left their sabers there when I took them up the hill, but they got them back afterwards, and I shipped them to Philadelphia my own self.

Q. How many people were there along Diamond street when you took these clothes out?

A. They couldn't march from Union depot on Liberty street, they had to go around the hill and over the Pan-Handle road by the tunnel and back here—that is where the nigger took them around.

A. I sent the clothes out. They went in two squads. We hadn't so many clothes to dress them all at once, the mob was waiting for them to come out.

Q. You are a military man, and have had a great deal of experience in the army. In your opinion, could these sixteen men have cut their way out with their sabers?

A. I couldn't see how. They didn't know the road, nor anything. They were strangers.

A. I don't see how they could do it with sabers, when the mob was standing outside with stones and pistols. What did them sixteen men want to do with sabers.

A. There was a big crowd there. They couldn't, I am satisfied. I wouldn't have risked it, and I wouldn't be afraid if I were acquainted in the city, and know my road.

A. They had nothing but their sabers, that is all. I saw them all. They had nothing but their pocket knives. Some of them had no knives, because they went away so quick, they didn't know where they were going, and they thought they were going a few miles outside of Philadelphia.

Q. Do you know whether there was any effort made to take any provisions or ammunition to the troops in the round-house on Saturday night?

Q. The general cry was against the Philadelphia soldiers. That intimidated these men, did it?

A. Oh! yes; I was right with them. I suppose they would if they could. A man says to me, what I got business to do with the Philadelphia troops, keeping conversation with them. I told him that is my business.

Q. Was it known to the crowd that these Black Hussars were quartered in your house? Did the crowd know that the Black Hussars were in your house?

A. No; not that Sunday. They found it out on Monday, though. The people came in the house keeping very nice, quiet conversation with them. I never heard a wrong word on Wednesday. The house was crowded, and they were sitting around with them, drinking beer. It was all right; very nice, quiet conversation.

Q. Just state what you know of the movements of the sheriff during the riots of July last?

A. At the time of the first disturbance, which occurred on Thursday evening, it was preceding the Saturday on which——

A. Yes; the 19th. I knew nothing whatever of anything the sheriff had done, or had been called on to do. I was informed the next morning that during the night of Thursday the sheriff had been called on by the solicitor of one of the railroads—Mr. Scott—by some of the railroad officials, during the night, and that he had been at Twenty-eighth street during that night, but I knew nothing of it personally. My residence is five miles—nearly six miles—from here, though in the city of Pittsburgh, and I was not sent for that night. The next day I became acquainted with what had been done, but I think I did not see the sheriff at all. He was out at Torrens station during a considerable portion of the day, with the railroad officers, and I don't remember to have seen him that day. I think he had been up pretty much all the night before, and was out, away from his office, the greater part of Friday, and I don't think I saw him at all on Friday. On Saturday morning I saw the sheriff, and had a full conference with him in his office. The sheriff submitted to me what he had done. Gave me an account of his meeting the rioters on Thursday night, and of his being out at Torrens station on Friday, where I think he was a considerable part of the day—at one place or the other—at least, I did not find him during business hours; and of his notification of the Governor that he was not able to deal, in his opinion, with the rioters or mob that had obstructed the running of the trains. Of course, I made inquiry as to the magnitude of the gatherings, to learn something about their threatening, hostile character. In fact, had known myself, personally, coming in on the road, that the trains were detained. I said to him that I entirely approved, as a matter of law, of what he had done in notifying the Governor to send on troops. The view I had of the act of 1864, I think it is, was that the Governor, on reliable information from any quarter where there was insurrection that the legal authorities were not able to deal with, might call out the troops, and I approved of that; but on Saturday morning the attorneys of the Pennsylvania railroad went into the court of common pleas No. 2, and obtained warrants for the arrest of a number of persons—my recollection is, fifteen in number—who were charged as leaders of this riotous movement. I think the warrants were addressed to a constable of the name of Richardson, and the solicitors of the road made a demand on the sheriff that morning for a posse comitatus to attend the arresting officers, and support him in the discharge of that duty. This took place sometime in the morning, at or after eleven o'clock in the morning—it was after eleven o'clock, I think—and I advised the sheriff to assemble a posse comitatus—as large a number of men as he could obtain—that three or four hundred would not be too large, and it was understood, at that time, that troops would arrive that evening. They would arrive here at twelve o'clock, or about twelve o'clock, perhaps earlier than twelve, on a train that arrived here between eleven and twelve o'clock, and it was understood the arrangement was, that the civil authorities were to make these arrests, the constable supported by the sheriff and his posse comitatus, and that the military were to be on the ground. There was, indeed, very little time for obtaining a posse comitatus at that time, but the sheriff sent out his deputies, some fifteen or sixteen of them, with instructions to bring in a posse comitatus. There was not time to write out summonses and serve them in any way, but I said to him that it would be a sufficient demand upon a person to attend if given verbally, that it was better to have a written notice, if there was time, which there was not then—less than an hour to do it all in. These deputies went out, some fourteen or fifteen of them, but they severally came in and reported at an interval of an hour, or an hour and a half—it was nearly one o'clock—and the result was, I think, but two men were obtained. I remember of one man being brought into the office who was very much alarmed. The sheriff asked him if he was willing to go. He said he was not willing to go; he was afraid to go. The sheriff reproached him with cowardice, and said he did not want that kind of a fellow to attend him. I think not more than two men were obtained. Sometime between twelve and one—I think nearer one than twelve—the sheriff, with his own deputies, went up to the Union depot. I think all his deputies, with the exception of one or two, perhaps, who were not then in the city. Every deputy he had in the city attended him, including his two sons and his brother, and they went up to the Union depot, and I think the constable was with him. I am not entirely sure about that. I attended them myself up as far as the Union depot. I know we went there, and some of the military had arrived there from Philadelphia at that time, but I think not all of them. I know nothing more as to what occurred on that afternoon, for I was not at Twenty-eighth street when the firing took place, and my personal knowledge ends with this, that the sheriff himself personally went. I cannot relate about anything that took place on Saturday night, or after that time, for I was not in that part of the city, but was at home.

Q. Do you know when it was that she sheriff made the call on the Governor for troops to support him?

A. I only know from what he told me himself, and what I have heard others say, and what I have seen printed—it must have been on Thursday night, the 19th.

Q. In your opinion, had the sheriff then exhausted his powers and resources to cope with the mob?

A. I, of course, cannot judge that; that is a question of fact. I can only judge of it from what other people have told me. I can judge from what I personally have seen of this mob myself, coming in on the train every day, for these trains had been delayed for two or three days. The freight trains were accumulating, and had been detained for some days before that or some time before that—at least one day—one whole day, if not another. I should judge from the crowds I saw assembled about the trains myself, and from descriptions of them by others, that it was not possible for the sheriff with any posse comitatus that he could obtain to deal with them, and I will tell you on what I found my opinion. This was a combination, I may say, of what we call here in Pittsburgh, the striking element. I don't think any man will say that he found a preponderance of the railroad men in their assemblages about Twenty-eighth street, or the Union depot, or other places on the road. Everybody out of work who belonged to what we call the striking population, were directed by sympathy or opinion towards these people. It was not a body of railroad men alone, and I don't think that the larger part of them were railroad men—the iron workers, the people who work in rolling mills, and the people who work in the various branches of industry, were all in sympathy with them, so far as I observed, and so far as my knowledge, derived from others, extends, and it was a sort of massing of the striking element here. The strike of the Pennsylvania railroad men being simply the occasion that brought them together.

Q. Let me ask you another question: In your judgment, had the sheriff at that time, under the act of 1864, laid the grounds for calling on the Governor for aid?

A. I don't remember—I have not the act of 1864 before me, and I don't remember whether it defines any ground. My recollection is, that the act itself does not define more than in general terms, at least, the ground upon which the executive aid maybe invoked. I was satisfied of this, and I think Senator Scott was. I know from his conversations with me that it was such a gathering, with such a purpose, and with such a determination that, at least, the Pennsylvania Railroad Company did not expect to deal with them without military forces to aid them, and I think that that was the prevalent impression. One of the sheriffs deputies told me that, though he had served in the army three years, he never had encountered any danger that alarmed him like the danger he expected to encounter here. He was a man willing to do his duty. It was a mob that inspired some terror, even at that time. Before any blood was shed, there was a general apprehension of trouble. I have seen many strikes here of coal diggers, of men engaged in iron mills and glass houses, and the various departments of industry. In fact, we have been a good deal accustomed to them, but there had never before been very much actual, positive mischief coming from them, and I never before saw a mob the people were afraid of, before that one in this city. However, I must say I saw but little of it until Saturday, and then the soldiers had been called out under the command of General Pearson, and some Philadelphia soldiers had arrived. On Saturday, the feeling was angry, it was threatening and severe.

Q. What preparations is it necessary for the sheriff to make, or what are his duties under the laws of the State of Pennsylvania before calling on the Governor for aid?

A. Well, gentlemen, I think the law on that subject has been very much changed by the act of 1864. That is here. I would like to refer you to it. I think very radical changes were made in the law relative to calling out the militia, by the act of 1864, that has been much adverted to lately. I think it establishes a very different system.

A. I think so. I think it is altogether different. As I understand that law, it is not necessary at all that the sheriff should notify the Governor. It might be done by the mayor, or alderman, or even by any citizen. The Governor himself judges of the sufficiency.

Q. As you understand the law, is it necessary for the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse comitatus before calling on the Governor?

A. I certainly would think the sheriff, the principal peace officer of the county, ought to make some effort to get a posse comitatus to control that riot; but there are cases where the riot has taken such proportions, as I think this one had—I do not regard it as local at all, for it extended from the Mississippi to the Atlantic—there are such cases where no posse comitatus could deal with them at all.

Q. At the time the sheriff made the call on the Governor, was it not principally local?

A. As to that I cannot speak from personal knowledge. What has been told to me was, in substance, this: That when the sheriff first met the gathering at Twenty-eighth street, there was a large collection of people, numbering, I don't know how many, but one or two thousand people, and this was in the middle of the night—towards eleven o'clock at night. They were gathered there. They insulted the sheriff, threw all sorts of reproaches upon him, blasphemy and obscenity of the very worst character were employed—this I don't know personally, but it has been told to me—and threats were made. Now, it is a question upon which you can judge as well as I, whether, when a crowd can be brought together at that hour of the night—a crowd greatly in excess of all the railroad men in this part of the country—whether any collection of citizens you might obtain, would be able to successfully disperse them, and it is a question very hard to determine.

Q. Would it, in your judgment, be the duty of the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse before calling on the Governor?

A. Unless the effort was plainly fruitless, I would not understand the law to require him to do a thing that is plainly unnecessary. If an armed force would come into the county which the sheriff evidently could not deal with citizens, especially without arms, I would not think it necessary to expose himself to any sacrifice of life. If the disturbance were local, I think he ought to make a serious effort to disperse it, before calling on the Governor. The law, as I understand it, and the only law in force on this subject, is the act of 1864, which was passed during the war—during the time of the rebellion, and when there were disturbances in different parts of this State. I understand it authorizes the Governor to call out the militia, on any information that satisfies his mind, whether it is of an official character or not. It is in these terms:

"When an invasion of, or insurrection in, the State is made or threatened, or a tumult, riot, or mob shall exist, the commander-in-chief shall call upon the militia to repel or suppress the same, and may order our divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, or companies, or may order to be detached parts or companies thereof, or any number of men to be drafted therefrom, and may cause officers to be detailed, sufficient with those attached to the troops to organize the forces."

That was not the law until 1864. At one period in Pennsylvania, when the military were called out, they were to be under the command of the sheriffs. That was changed by the act of 1857—I am not entirely sure about that—it was about that time, and in case of an insurrection, application was to be made to a judge, and so forth. But it will be observed that that law seems to supply all existing legislation on the subject, and applies to cases of insurrection, invasion, mobs, tumults, and riots, and also authorized the Governor when these exist, to call them out, though it don't prescribe on what terms or conditions he shall call them out. I take it that if you, Mr. Chairman, or any gentleman in whom the Governor had confidence, were to communicate with him information that a mob or tumult existed, and it was necessary to call out forces to deal with them, he would be perfectly authorized in calling out the militia, whether his information is of official character or not.

Q. Did you communicate your views, as you have given them to us, to Sheriff Fife?

A. Yes; I said I approved of what he had done. He had sent these telegrams on Thursday night, and as I stated to you, I didn't see him until afternoon.

A. I approved of what he had done, and I think that view was the view of Mr. Scott, the solicitor of the railroad, and I think of everybody that were cognizant of the fact. At a later period, during the week succeeding the destruction of the property, the various railroads here—the Fort Wayne and Chicago, the Pittsburgh and Cleveland, and the Allegheny Valley, the Baltimore and Ohio, and the Charleston and Virginia road sent written demands to the sheriff, setting forth that a tumultuous body of men were holding their property, and threatening to destroy it, and calling upon him to protect the property. The sheriff made a demand for aid upon General Brown, who was in command of the Sixth division, having succeeded General Pearson, who had been relieved, to enable him to protect this property. I cannot give you the views the military had of their duty here——

A. There is a communication, and a copy of the communication, written by myself, and sent to General Brown, in fact, it is the original letter, which I have here, to General Brown, making a demand, and I have a copy of his reply. The sheriff, at the same time, or before that time, had constituted General James S. Negley his deputy, for the purpose of preserving the public peace and dispersing the rioters. General Negley was recruiting a body of men to act in preserving the peace. It was said he had several hundred men, and the sheriff, after consultation, clothed him with all the civil character which the sheriff himself had in dealing with these disturbances.

A. That was done somewhere about the 25th of July. It is about the date of this letter. [Indicating.] This letter will, perhaps, explain about what the sheriff's views of duty were, if you will permit me to read it.

Q. I don't see hardly how that would be necessary, because he called upon the Governor as commander-in-chief to send troops?

A. There were no troops here at that time, except the Sixth regiment. General Brinton had been here on Saturday, but he had left with his troops. There were no troops here, except the Sixth division, commanded then by General Brown, and composed of the Fourteenth, Eighteenth, and Nineteenth regiments.

Q. Is this of a character to give directions to General Brown or asking him for aid?

Sheriff's Office, Pittsburgh, July 26, 1877.

To General Joseph Brown, in command of the Sixth Division National Guard of Pennsylvania:

Sir: I have the honor to enclose to you copies of the following communications, addressed to me under date of the 25th and 26th days of July, inst., by Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, solicitors for the Pennsylvania company, operating the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railway, and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh railroad; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis Railway Company; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Virginia and Charleston Railroad Company, and by Welty McCullough, solicitor of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company and the Pittsburgh and Connellsville Railroad Company, representing, in substance, that the property of the respective railway companies is in immediate and constant danger of destruction at the hands of a body of rioters and disaffected workmen, which may at any time become a mob, and which said companies believe has an intention of destroying said property.

I beg leave to inform you that since the present disturbances began I have made efforts to summon a posse comitatus to suppress the unlawful and riotous proceedings of the persons referred to in the enclosed communications, but have been hereto unsuccessful in procuring the services of any considerable number of men willing to come to my aid as a posse comitatus. My consequent inability to disperse the unlawful assemblages referred to (or some of them) has been communicated to the Governor, who has ordered out the military power of the State for that purpose. I cannot protect the property referred to without your aid. Can you give it? I am well persuaded that no mere civil force that I can raise can protect this property. If you can give me the aid of your military force please inform in writing immediately.

Yours respectfully,

R. H. Fife,
Sheriff.

Signed by the sheriff. It was dated the 26th, and the answer of General Brown came two days afterwards, July 28th, and is as follows:

[Official Business.]

Headquarters Sixth Division, National Guard, Pennsylvania.

(Copy.)

Pittsburgh, July 28, 1877.

Hon. R. H. Fife, Sheriff Allegheny county, Pennsylvania:

Sir: Yours of date 25th instant came to hand July 26, at 7.20, P.M., in which you request the aid of the National Guard of Pennsylvania to protect the property of the several railroad companies centering in the city of Pittsburgh, now threatened by mobs. You will, wherever there may be any riotous proceedings, bring all the powers with which you are clothed to disperse the rioters. After you have made such effort and are overpowered, your posse comitatus completely driven from the ground, then I am ready and fully able to assist you, and am now ready to assist you, when assured your power is exhausted.

Very respectfully,

Joseph Brown,
Brigadier General commanding Sixth Division N.G.P.

Received July 28, 1877, at 9.30, A.M.

I sent a verbal message to ask General Brown whether he thought it was his duty to wait until the posse comitatus was completely driven from the ground. If his duty was merely to bury the dead, we could get somebody to do that as well as him.

A. It was after any actual destruction of property, and this railroad property was still held by the rioters, and they wouldn't allow trains to move.

A. It was just a week. The Governor hadn't arrived with his troops, and didn't arrive until some days afterwards—the next week.

A. General Brown had under his control the Fourteenth regiment and the Eighteenth regiment and the Nineteenth regiment, Pennsylvania National Guards, all raised in and about this place.

A. I cannot say how many were on duty, except from what I have heard, but I have heard the number estimated, and I think I have heard military men say some three or four hundred altogether. General Brown's head-quarters was less than one square from the court-house, and we could get no answer from him at all until two days afterwards. He says in his reply he received the communication, twenty minutes past seven, P.M., on the 26th. After waiting two days he replied, and replied in the manner set forth.

Q. I wish you to state where Sheriff Fife was on Sunday, during the riot, so far as you know?

A. I didn't see him any time during the day, but I saw him on Monday, the next day. It was reported that the sheriff had been killed—it was telegraphed all over the country. I saw the sheriff on Monday, was in his company, and in his office. As to the sheriff himself, I may say this about it, that I personally advised the sheriff, when he went up on Saturday, to constitute a deputy to take charge of this force. The sheriff had, three times during the year preceding, been at the point of death with heart disease, and I don't think he was in a fit condition to go at all, but he insisted on going, and did go, both on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I know nothing more, gentlemen, that I can tell you about this.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee met at three o'clock. All present except Messrs. Means, Reyburn, and Torbert.

Q. State whether you had any negotiations or any conference with the strikers during the riots of July last, and if so, what it was?

A. I had conversations with the strikers on, I think, Friday before the riot, and Sunday of the riot.

Q. State what the conference was on Friday—that is, you mean Friday, the 21st of July?

A. Friday before the riot. The conversation was at East Liberty, with the strikers. I went there to see about some stock that had been consigned to us. While there, I got in conversation with them. They seemed to demand their rights of the railroad, but they didn't want to inconvenience any stock dealers there, nor anybody else—didn't seem to want to interfere with the business—wanted their rights—seemed peaceable enough to me on Sunday. I suppose the paper that is here—that is what I am to testify—in regard to that, (the paper referred to by the witness is the paper written to W. C. McCarthy, and will be found in the testimony of Doctor Donnelly,) I was requested, I think, by Major McCarthy, after the citizens meeting on Sunday, at the city hall, to go to Twenty-eighth street and see if I could make any arrangements, or see what the feeling was out among the strikers. I went there, and found this man Cunningham—I don't say it was him, it was a man that was pointed out to me as Cunningham. He said he was willing to go down and join Captain McMunn, and help us citizens suppress the mob. Then this paper was to go to the mayor. I met some one on the corner who said he was going there, and he, this man Cunningham said, would deliver the note properly, and he sent this note to the mayor. This man Cunningham said, that he also thought the Pennsylvania railroad had treated them wrong, but that he was very much opposed to the destruction of property, and that he was willing to join with the citizens, and go down and help suppress the mob then going on—I suppose they were at that time. I couldn't state what hour this was. They must have been in and about the Union depot and elevator.

A. I know nothing at all. Never saw him before or since this day. Wouldn't know him now.

Q. He was a brakeman or engineer on the railroad—one of the strikers said to be at the meeting at the city hall. I cannot testify that that was the man.

Q. This is the note you sent to the mayor after the conversation with Cunningham?

"Honorable W. C. McCarthy: I have gone to Twenty-sixth street. Cunningham, of the strikers, with Captain McMunn, say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you. I will do my best. Tell Doctor Donnelly; and if they come, see that they get instructions." "Instructions" meant—I suppose that means get instruction where to go.

A. That I wouldn't like to say. I suppose it was about four o'clock in the afternoon—Sunday afternoon.

A. He was also a prominent man among the strikers. He made a speech at the city hall that is recorded. A very good hearted man. I knew him before.

Q. Was he in the employ of the railroad company at the time the strike broke out?

A. I cannot say that he was then. I was always led to believe he was before. I used to live at the Union depot, and I know most of these people by sight. I have seen him several times, and talked to him on the street since the riot.

Q. Did you understand from the conference you had with Cunningham that the strikers would unite with good citizens to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?

A. I never got an answer. In fact, I don't think I ever asked, because when I came down the people had all gone up to the depot—all that seemed to want to join. In fact I am positive I never said anything about it afterwards. I suppose if they had gone there they would have been assigned to proper places.

A. Yes; that was the understanding. I think Captain McMunn told me to go to this man Cunningham, and that he would help us.

A. That I can't say. I don't know. They might have joined without my knowing it.

Q. State, if you know, what efforts were made by the city authorities to get a force to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?

Q. Only what you know of your own personal knowledge what effort was made by the mayor and his subordinates to suppress the riots and disperse the mob?

A. I only know that in the morning I went to the mayor and asked—early in the morning——

A. On Saturday. I was in Allegheny that night. I went to the mayor early in the morning, and asked him if there was anything that could be done—asked him if he couldn't get a few extra police by issuing a call for extra police.

A. Mayor McCarthy; yes, sir. He said the police committee were then in session up stairs. I asked him if he would allow me to go up, and request them to issue a call and guarantee their payment. He said, I might. I went up and stated the case, and they said to me, that they had authorized the mayor to employ a certain number, which I don't know now, of police. I went to the mayor and asked him if he would—after that there was a meeting at the city hall, pretty shortly after that—I asked the mayor if he could get any extra police. He said, he couldn't get them, he had tried, and couldn't get them. I joined the mayor after that, and went to the city hall meeting. Going down Fifth avenue, I asked the mayor if he was going to make an attempt to get additional police, as he had been authorized by the police committee. He said he was, but who was going to guarantee the payment of this money. I told him we would fix that part of it, if that was all the hang there was to it. We got to the city hall meeting, went on and got partly through. If I remember right, I said I would be one of so many that would pay the police, if he felt backward about employing them. Then I know after that, he made an attempt to get men, and succeeded, I don't how far, but he got a few, at least, later in the day. I asked him if he was going to send out police, and he said he had not been asked to do so.

A. Yes; I am a friend of Mayor McCarthy, and I am simply testifying as a citizen. I think there is very much of a mix somewheres—who it belongs to or where it rests—it ought to be placed somewhere. There is a very decided mix.

Q. I wish to ask you another question. Do you know what efforts were made by the sheriff and his subordinates or the county authorities to suppress the riot?

A. I had been appointed a member of the citizens' committee. I went with them to city hall, and from that went in carriages to the mob.

A. Bishop Tuigg, a father of the catholic church, whose name I have forgotten—Mr. Bennett, I think his name is J. I. Bennett—Mr. J. Parker, junior, and others, whose names I forget at the moment. There were two carriages. Doctor Donnelly, I remember him distinctly, he was there. Our contact with the mob was very brief. Railings were torn from the fence on Liberty street; but we made our way to the end of the platform of the car—the rear platform of the car. One of the gentlemen sought to call the people to order, and introduced Bishop Tuigg, who endeavoured to address them. They listened for a few moments, and then interrupted with questions. After a few moments further they began to throw clinkers or pieces of iron, and we were warned by apparent friends to withdraw, with the words, "It is growing very hot here." Other ineffectual attempts were made to address the meeting. After withdrawing we proceeded to Twenty-sixth street, with a view of meeting the strikers, and attempting to dissociate them from the rioters, with the hope that they would assist in suppressing the riot. It was impossible to find the leaders. One or two, who seemed to have some influence, were finally seen. Then the citizens' committee went to visit the railroad authorities at a private house in Allegheny.

A. Those who were found disclaimed any sympathy with the riot, and they were appealed to do what they could to suppress it.

Q. Did they seem willing to help in suppressing the arson and riot that was then going on?

A. They made no motion in that direction, but there were very few—they were so scattered here and there. So far as I could see, all that was accomplished by that committee was to direct the attention of the few to the efforts that were going on in the city to organize a force. The character of the rioters appeared to me to be such as belonged to people habitually in Pittsburgh. I saw no evidence of their being strangers.

Q. Were there no railroad employés that were actually engaged in the arson and burning and riot?

A. I recognized none whom I knew as railroad employés, but it was evident that somebody that understood the management of engines were there, and the crowd was not wholly confined to those whose dress looked like laboring men. They seemed to have no wish to injure anything but the railroad, and clamored to know whether any proposition came directly from the chief of the road, Mr. Scott, and when they found no such proposition was to be given to them, they would not listen to any other.

A. From half past two to three. Do you wish to know anything in regard to the interview with the authorities?

Q. Yes; I would like to have you relate the interview with the city authorities?

A. By the time we had arrived at the private house, in Allegheny, the depot was in flames, and I think also the elevator. So that they answered in a word, that all the mischief had been done which they could sustain, and they had no proposition for a compromise to make, and it is just to say, that they would have said the same if they had other interests. They plead also the general interest of the community as a reason for not treating with those in rebellion against the authorities. I know nothing whatever in regard to the conduct of the city authorities, except what could be observed from the outside of the building—the city hall—the new city hall—from five to seven o'clock—the formation of the companies—they went up to the scene of the riot, and their return, which I witnessed, that was all.

A. Citizens—young men mainly. Mr. McCune, and myself, and some others were with the mayor at the time of the issuance of the first proclamation, reading, I think, in this way: "Veterans, to the rescue. Meet at city hall at ten o'clock," I think, "the citizens will follow you."

A. Written, I think, by myself, at the instance of the mayor. That was on Monday. There was no citizens' meeting then, that I knew of. This proclamation was designed to meet the necessity which came upon us, through the information of other persons coming from a distance—a boat load down the Monongahela, and the cars full from McKeesport. That was very soon afterward superceded by another notice, and General Negley took the whole charge from that. I was engaged in visiting the wounded. That is all I know in regard to it, except these expressions of opinion I heard here and there.

Q. How many were actually engaged in the burning and riot, when you were out at the scene of the riot?

A. At the time we were there, before the firing of the depot, the multitude was in an elongated form, stretching up the railway, so that all were not visible at any one point. But those that were visible to us, would number anywhere from two to three hundred who seemed actually participating, while towards the city there was a large crowd.

A. Yes; many of whom I recognized as our citizens, and persons of standing in the community. Many statements have been made with regard to the ease of checking the multitude at that point, which are certainly hard to prove. No small force could have stopped them at that time—that is, of course, in my judgment. I know very little about such things. Some boys were in the multitude, and several of them evidently under the influence of drink, and fainting from exhaustion and excitement. But the most of them were stalwart men, under most powerful excitement.

A. We could see that only in a few cases, of course, where it come to such evidence that they were overcome by it. It is evident, there were a number of boys who were on the point of falling, from exposure to the sun.

Q. Were these two or three hundred that you speak of armed, so far as you could see?

A. We saw no arms. The engine that was near us—there seemed to be an effort of some to move it; but, if I understood rightly, those who wished to remove the engine were pulled down from it, and not suffered to move it.

A. The notice I received and read from the pulpit was signed J. I. Burnett, but his name was crossed out, as though he desired it to be impersonal—written hurriedly on a piece of paper with a pencil. I announced, at the time, that "this notice comes to me without signature, and I am unable to say in whose name it is."

A. I came just at its close, but I suppose, from the area they occupied in the street, that it was from one hundred and fifty to two hundred.

Q. This appointment of this committee was with a view of trying to stop the arson and riot by peaceable measures?

A. Conciliation—yes. Our effort with the railroad authorities was based upon previous efforts to dissociate the rioters from the strikers, and remove that cause of complaint, and the only proposition that was made was whether they could make any proposition.

A. We started for the citizens' meeting. We arrived shortly before its close, but for what reason, I could not understand, our chairman made no report. Probably because there was nothing to report—nothing that had been done, or could be done.

Q. How soon after you came back was it before the citizens began to organize into companies for the purpose of protection?

A. Almost within half an hour. While we were standing on the verge of the assembled crowd, they began to form in line, and march to the city hall. I remember the person who headed the column.

A. With muskets, as I understood, taken from the armory of the university, as I was afterwards told, without ammunition.

A. No; it seemed to diminish. Going down to the Duquesne depot, at nine o'clock, I was told that quite a large number had come originally to guard the depot, but all had dispersed, except six.

A. Part of the time in the city and part of the time at Laurel station, four miles below the city.

Q. State whether you accompanied Sheriff Fife to Twenty-eighth street, on the night of Thursday, the 19th of July last, and what took place there?

A. On the 18th of the month, I went to the country. On the 19th I got back. I heard they were striking in town here, and there were a good many men got on the cars coming in along, and they were talking considerably about it on the road coming in—talking that they were coming in to take part in the strike. That was on Thursday, the 19th of the month. I noticed men along the road, on the road coming in, and some of them yelled at those parties who got on the train to send them out grub—they had been out for some time, and hadn't had anything to eat. They were out at East Liberty. I came in town. Didn't notice much of a crowd in the city. That was late in the evening, and I went to bed that evening about nine o'clock. I think it was about two o'clock I was wakened by Sheriff Fife himself. He said they wished us to go to Twenty-eighth street. We got in a carriage and went to Mr. Pitcairn's office, and from there we went out to where there was a considerable of a crowd gathered.

A. The sheriff talked to them, and he told them what the result of it would be, and they would have to go away. If they did not, he would have to send for the military. He said he would use all the power that he could, but, he said, if they would not disperse he would have to send for the military. They hooted him and hissed him and gave him a great deal of bad language while I was there. I turned around and came back to Pitcairn's office, and he told me he would not need me any longer, I might go home. I went home and went to bed.

A. No, sir; not that I know. They were not doing anything at the time we went out there, any more than standing there.

A. No, sir. I believe they said, though, that they would not—they were not going to let any more trains go out, or something to that effect.

A. No, sir; the two of us—I don't think there was much use of us making any attempt.

A. He told me he could not find any other of his deputies—he had sent for several of them, but they were not at home, or something of that kind. He said I was all the one he could find.

A. These men that came for him, told him all they wanted of him, was to go out and make a demand of the crowd to disperse.

A. It was one of the railroad officials and one of the men that came for the sheriff.

A. On Friday I was out—Friday morning—to serve some writs, and didn't get back until pretty late in the morning. When I got in, he told me he wanted me to go along out to Twenty-eighth street.

A. Yes; that was on Friday. We two went down to the depot. The militia was gathered there. We stood there several hours. I think he came to the conclusion not to go out on that day. He told us we could go home again—would not go out before the next day. The next day I was out some place attending to some business in my district, and came back. He told me that the rest of the deputies were all out and they wanted men to go to Twenty-eighth street. That was the day before—that was on Friday, I think it was Friday—he attempted to raise a posse, I would not be certain. He said the rest of the deputies were all through town trying to get a posse to go and assist in making arrests, and told me he wanted me to go out and raise all the men I could—if I could find any, to bring them in. I went out and met a good many men that I knew, and some that I was not acquainted with, anymore than I knew their faces, and spoke to them about going out, and none of them would go.

A. There are a great many men in the city that their faces are familiar, but I don't know their names.

A. Some of them stated they didn't want to have anything to do with fighting against the workingmen, other men said, damned if they wanted to go out there to get killed, and such replies as that.

A. I asked if they would go out, and assist in making arrests at Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Did you say to any of them that you commanded them as a peace officer—you demanded their assistance as a posse to assist in suppressing the riot?

Q. Did the sheriff go out himself, and command men to join him in putting down the riot?

A. I couldn't state that, whether he did or didn't. I was not in the office much. I was away in the morning, and when I came back, he requested me to go out.

A. His directions were to go out in town, and get all the men I could to assist in making arrests in Twenty-eighth street. He said there was three or four men there they had warrants for, and they expected trouble, and wanted a posse.

Q. Didn't tell you to make your demands, or what language to use, nor gave you no written summons.

A. There was considerable delay, at least I thought so, before we made a start to go from the depot to Twenty-eighth street. There appeared to be a delay with the military. They had not all arrived at the one time, and those that had, had to have something to eat, before they were ready to go on. There appeared to be considerable delay. I think it was near four o'clock before a start was made from the depot—somewheres between three and four o'clock. The sheriff and I think seventeen assistants were in advance of the military, and marched up the railroad street in that way. I understood the object that we were taken for was to assist Constable Richardson in making some arrests. I understood that there was an order issued from court to arrest some ten or eleven of the ring-leaders of the strikers, and we were to assist Richardson in making the rescue, and the military, as I understood it at the time, was to protect us. I walked with my brother the greater part of the way. We went two by two, in advance of the military. We reached the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and the crowd was so dense it was with difficulty that we could get through it. We worked our way on up to Twenty-eighth street. I stood about the center of the street for a considerable length of time, at Twenty-eighth street, where the railroad crosses. You have heard the statements made in regard to the disposition that was made of the military there, and my own views are just the same. They were put into what is termed a hollow square, and then what followed after that——