By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say they asserted their right to stop the trains?
A. An assumed right. They supposed they had such a right. Some of them supposed, ignorantly, that they had such a right—a great many of them honestly believed that.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did they claim that they had any right to set themselves up against the authorities?
A. No; at no time; as they construed the laws of the Commonwealth, they did not want to set themselves up against them.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you know what the feeling was in this city when the strike broke out?
A. I know that the people of the city of Pittsburgh almost universally condemned the reduction of the salaries of the railroad men at that time. The strikers knew that they had the sympathies of the people of Allegheny county—of all classes—in their efforts to have a living rate of wages restored to them, and thousands of people not engaged in the strike, on that Saturday afternoon, in July last, were gathered in the vicinity of the Pennsylvania railroad workshops, not for the purpose of violating any law, but either from motives of sympathy with the strikers or prompted by curiosity to witness the military. It may be inferred, that at least one half of those people were women and children, and these, without warning, were fired into and many of them killed or wounded. Of course, this caused universal indignation and condemnation, and was the occasion of all the subsequent troubles and destruction. A pacific course pursued towards these men would have avoided the catastrophe that followed. The first great blunder in dealing with the strikers in Pittsburgh, was in the attempt to operate the road by the use of a military force, instead of using the troops to preserve order and to keep the peace.
Q. You say that the sympathies of the people of Pittsburgh were with the strikers or with the railroad employés and against the reduction of their wages. Do you mean as long as no overt act was committed? Or what did they regard as an overt act?
A. They would have regarded as an overt act the destruction of property.
Q. Did they regard the stopping of trains as an overt act?
A. I think that certain classes of people did not regard the stopping of the trains an overt act, but they would have regarded the forcible taking of men from the trains—men who were willing to work—or the preventing them from working, as an overt act.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you tell us what you did in your own city—tell us how you managed the trouble there?
A. The authorities of Allegheny managed the strikers differently—in a different way from that pursued in Pittsburgh. Several days prior to the burning in Pittsburgh, the strikers took possession of the railroad tracks, and the workshops of the Pennsylvania company operating the Pittsburgh, Port Wayne and Chicago railroad. They threw up breast-works,and held armed possession of the railroad property, and even took possession of, and regulated the running of passenger trains and the United States mail trains. At all interviews, they insisted that it was not their intention to destroy property, but to protect the railroad property, and that they wouldn't commit any overt act in violation of law, as they understood it. Many of them believed they were not violating any law, and assumed that they had a right to accomplish the object they had in view, by the method they then were pursuing. The authorities and the citizens of Allegheny City knew that they were dealing with a powerful, intelligent, and well organized body of men, who were determined and resolute in their purposes. To have attempted to force those men from their position, would have precipitated the same troubles that culminated in Pittsburgh a few days subsequently. So the citizens appealed to the better judgment of those strikers, they reasoned with them, and instead of irritating them, or attempting to force them, they permitted them to have their own way, believing that the railroad officials and their employés, would, in a few days, adjust all differences. This policy, under the circumstances, proved to be a wise one, as when danger came, and when the mob were burning and destroying in Pittsburgh, the strikers in Allegheny actually removed all the rolling stock out of the way of danger, and volunteered to assist the organized citizens in protecting the depots and workshops, and all other railroad property in the city of Allegheny. Had the same policy been pursued in Pittsburgh, there would have been no destruction of property.
Q. You were in the army. What position in the army did you hold during the late war?
A. In 1861—in May, 1861—1 enlisted as a soldier, and was elected lieutenant of my company, and went out as a member of the Second Virginia regiment, as lieutenant, and afterwards became captain of my company.
Q. Was it a Union regiment?
A. Yes. We went to Wheeling to protect the people, and our services were accepted by the people of West Virginia. On the 19th of February, 1862, I was appointed commissary assistant by the Secretary of War, and that position I held until about the 1st day of September, 1862, when I was assigned to duty as chief commissary of the Twelfth army corps. About the 15th of March, 1863, I was assigned to duty as chief commissary of the Fifth army corps, with the rank of lieutenant colonel, on General Meade's staff.
Q. How long did you occupy that position?
A. Until I was mustered out of the service, or until the corps was disbanded, in September, 1865. I remained in service until March, 1866.
Q. What business have you been engaged in since the war?
A. For the last eight years I have been an alderman of the city of Allegheny. The year before that, 1 was a member of the Legislature.
Q. From the time you left the army until you were elected a member of the Legislature what business were you engaged in?
A. 1 was following my occupation as a scrivener.
Q. Where did you reside before going into the army?
A. From the year 1836, until I went into the army, in this county.
Q. What business were you engaged in?
A. When I went into the army I was chief clerk in the county commissioners' office of Allegheny county. Prior to that I was a clerk in a store.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Something has been said about picketing the railroad track where the riot occurred. Now, taking into consideration the number of cars around there, how many troops would it have taken to reasonably picket the track and the ground there in possession of the mob?
A. The ground in possession of the mob, from the round-house out to Lawrenceville, I think could have been sufficiently picketed by one hundred men on both sides. At no time were more than one hundred persons on the ground from twelve o'clock that night until four o'clock in the morning, from the round-house out to Two Mile run. I consider that the movement of the military into the round-house, at the time, was a good one, but they should have picketed the railroad, and all the approaches to the round-house. To have retired on the bluff, above the railroad tracks, would have been a military blunder, for if they were not strong enough to protect themselves where the cars and buildings afforded them shelter, they certainly could not have held a position on the hill face, where they could have been attacked from the open fields above them, and been within easy range of masked or rifle shots from the houses fronting on Liberty street. No officer of any military experience would have selected that hill face to bivouac his troops, under the circumstances then existing, but the retreat of two regiments of well armed and equipped soldiers, commanded by officers of undoubted courage, and large military experience in the face of a disorganized mob, was certainly a inexplicable blunder.
Q. You did not see the crowd before it was fired into and dispersed by the military?
A. I did not. I only arrived there afterward.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Now in your judgment, as a military man, do you think that there was any necessity for calling on the military to quell this riot?
A. I do not. I honestly believe that if the authorities of the county or Allegheny, or the city of Pittsburgh, had summoned a sufficient posse comitatus, they could have preserved the peace. They might not have been able to run the railroad cars, but the peace could have been preserved without calling the military.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. From your observations during this disturbance, what opinion have you of the conduct of the officers and those in charge of the military?
A. I was not brought in contact with them, except with Colonel Gray, of one of our regiments, after the firing. I went to where he had bivouacked on the railroad track, and he had one hundred and twenty men with him at the time. He said he was there for the purpose of obeying orders, and that his men would stay by him. He had no orders at that time. I asked him particularly whether he had any orders, and he said he had none. I asked him whether he thought he could preserve the peace, and he said he could. I think he said that the firing on the people was a mistake, and was done without orders, but if I had been there I would have ordered the mob to disperse, and then fired on them with blank cartridges.
Q. From your knowledge of these men as soldiers during the war, do you think they were competent or incompetent men?
A. I know General Pearson well. I knew him in the army, and I know what his military record was in the army, and there is no young officer in the United States service who has a prouder record as a brave, a careful, and discreet soldier. He served in our own corps, and I had daily opportunity of knowing what his military services and military abilities were, and his record in the army was certainty vary creditable to him. I also knew General Brinton in our corps, and I know that his record is equally good.
By Mr. Means:
Q. They were good soldiers, ready to obey orders at all times?
A. Yes; and had those two officers had the management of this affair, without being amenable to superiors, much of the destruction would have been avoided.
Q. You mean Generals Pearson and Brinton?
A. Yes; they had, to my certain knowledge, years of experience in the army—active experience as soldiers.
Adjourned.
MORNING SESSION.
Pittsburgh, Wednesday, February 20, 1878.
The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M. Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All the members present except Messrs. Reyburn and Torbert.
Daniel Corbus, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Examined by Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. New Brighton, Beaver county.
Q. How long have you resided there?
A. I was born there in 1839.
Q. What is your business?
A. Wire drawer by trade.
Q. State whether you were in Pittsburgh when the disturbances of last July first broke out?
A. I was not there at the breaking out of it. I arrived here the same day, about a quarter past one, I suppose—Liberty street.
Q. State what you saw and heard?
A. Saturday night the news was very exciting out home, and Sunday morning at eleven o'clock I took the express and arrive I here at the city—Federal street—about twelve o'clock I should judge it was. Came over to Fifth street and got my dinner. Went to the market-house and saw a crowd of people there. Went down to see what was going on, and found it was a peace convention.
Q. A what?
A. A peace convention.
Q. At what point was that?
A. It was some place near the old City Hall—I should judge it was. It was in the street. I went from there up Liberty street until I met the fire. I couldn't state how far it was from the Union depot—how many squares it was; but I stopped at the first crossing below the last car that was on fire. I staid there until a car load of spirits exploded, and the flames ran down from there about a hundred feet.
Q. Where was this explosion—at what point?
A. It was on the railroad in a railroad car.
Q. What street?
A. It was on Liberty street—I should judge that was the street that the cars go out of. I am not well enough acquainted to state positively—it was on the Pennsylvania railroad.
Q. Was that on the Allegheny Valley track?
A. No, sir; on the Pennsylvania tracks.
Q. Near what cross street?
A. That I am not well enough informed to know, but I should judge it was four squares above the Union depot, right up the track.
Q. Four squares?
A. Yes; four squares.
Q. Go on now?
A. While standing there looking at the flames going on, I made a remark to some person: "Ain't they going to try to stop it?" and he said, "no, we don't care anything whether it is stopped or not." I hadn't staid there long until I heard the gong of a hose carriage. The crowd didn't seem disposed to give way or do anything—just standing in the road. I asked the crowd if they would stand back and let the hose carriage come in. I was a perfect stranger to every person around. There was a movement made in the crowd, and the hose carriage came up. Says I, "do you want any assistance?" says he, "yes." Says I, "give me the end of the hose and I will make the attachment." He was taking it off the reel and one man jumped from the reel and went to the plug, and him and I made the attachment. The reel started on—there was barrels being rolled down this street, and everything was in confusion, and no person seemed to make any effort to check anything. I seen that the hose were in danger of being blocked, and I told some parties who were rolling some barrels down, "stop that! put that barrel in here." They stopped. I took the barrel out of their hands, and rolled it into the gutter. I staid there for ten minutes afterwards, when one of my companions came along, and says he, "let us get out of here." We walked on down do the Union depot, passed the Union depot and went up to, I should judge it would be Washington street, from the description given—not being well acquainted with the streets—and stepped into a segar store, got some segars, and told the proprietor of the store, says I, "I think you had better move." And says he, "no, I don't think there is any danger." Says I, "in a couple of hours you will be burned out—they ain't making any effort up there to stop it." I went out, passed around on to the side of the hill above the Union depot, where I had a view of the whole transaction that was going on; just seen the burners going along and doing just as they pleased, having everything in their own hands. I was on the side of the hill when the office beyond the shed attached to the Union depot building was set on fire.
Q. Did you see it set on fire?
A. I seen a man go into the building, and in a few minutes I seen the flames coming out.
Q. Do you know the man?
A. No, sir; I was too far away. The smoke coming up over the hill, I moved around and came back, then down to the Union depot by the same route I had went up, and there stopped by the elevator. As I came by the Union depot, I saw, I suppose, twenty armed men leaving it, some with parts of uniform on, some with caps, and some with pants, and others with citizens overcoats. They were going through the gangway to the hill, passing out of the side entrance to the gangway that runs across the Pan-Handle road on to the hill. I stood down by the elevator, and saw the parties making their escape from the upper stories of the Union depot, and then I got in conversation with a gentleman about it. Says I, "I suppose they will be satisfied when that is burned." "No;" says he, "we won't be satisfied until this elevator is down." Says I, "do you intend to burn this?" Says he, "everything in these monopolies has got to burn"—he made use of that expression. Says he, "I am a citizen here, and I own property, and I expect to help pay for it." Says I, "this is not railroad property." Says he, "it don't make a damned bit of difference, it has got to come down; it is a monopoly, and we are tired of it."
Q. Did you know that man?
A. I am personally acquainted with him, but I would rather not give his name publicly.
Q. I think we ought to have his name?
A. I would give it to you privately. He is a friend of mine from boyhood up. I can give you his name, and you can have him before you. I would like to be excused from giving his name publicly.
Q. What kind of a citizen is he—what is his business standing?
A. He is a machinist, and of good character, so far as I know.
Q. How long has he resided in the city of Pittsburgh?
A. I suppose he must have resided in this neighborhood for twenty years.
Q. Does he work in the railroad shops as a machinist?
A. No, sir; one of the city shops.
Q. How old a man is he?
A. I suppose he would be between thirty-five and forty years. About near my age. We were boys together when we were in Brighton, and he came to the city.
Q. A man of family?
A. Yes; he is a man of family.
Q. He said he expected to help pay for it?
A. He says, "I expect to help pay for it."
Q. Did he set fire then to the elevator?
A. Oh! no, sir.
Q. Who did fire that?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did he take any part?
A. No; he didn't seem to take any part. He seemed to know and understand what was going to be done, though.
Q. Was he leading or giving directions in any way to the crowd?
A. No, sir. He stood with me in the crowd back. He seemed to know certain parties that were in it, although he mentioned no names.
Q. Did he say where the parties were from that were in it?
A. Yes; he made that remark—said he, "Our shop boys came home this morning tired out with the night's work."
Q. With Saturday night's work, did he allude to?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Our shop boys?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What shop was that he alluded to?
A. Jones & Laughus, I believe—the American iron works.
Q. How many men do the American iron works employ, do you know?
A. I can only give an estimate of the reports—from one thousand five hundred to two thousand. They are very large works. I have been through them.
Q. When he said, "our boys came home tired out from last night's work," what work did he allude to?
A. The conversation was on this burning altogether—on the destruction of the property. My inference was that it was the work we had witnessed.
Q. Were you talking about any other subject at the time?
A. No, sir; nothing but the disturbance then in progress.
Q. Did you see any attempt while you were there to destroy or set fire to individual property?
A. No; I did not.
Q. When you arrived at the scene of the riot, how large a crowd was there?
A. On the streets—it would be impossible to judge the number.
Q. Engaged in actual burning and rioting?
A. I think twenty-five good men would have cleaned the crowd out.
Q. I asked you how large the crowd was?
A. Averaging from three to five hundred, not over that—boys—young fellows.
Q. Did you see any efforts made by anybody to stop the burning?
A. No, sir; not an effort.
Q. See any policemen around there?
A. I saw two or three policemen about two squares below, but none in the immediate neighborhood of the burning.
Q. Did you see the sheriff or any posse about?
A. I did not—no person in authority, or any person using any authority.
Q. When you attempted to make the connection, were you interfered with in any way?
A. No, sir; not in the least.
Q. When you undertook to stop the rolling down of barrels, what seemed to be the feeling in the crowd?
A. They just stopped and let me have my own way.
Q. Obeyed orders?
A. Obeyed orders.
Q. Did you make any effort to stop those that were setting fire to property and burning?
A. No, sir; I did not; I held back from them on account of not being a citizen of the town.
Q. The crowd that was standing around, of whom were they composed?
A. They seemed to be composed of the better class of citizens of the two cities, you could see—quiet, orderly.
Q. Were there any women and children among them in the crowd?
A. Yes; there were a great number.
Q. Did you see any business men of the city standing about?
A. No, sir; I can't say that I did. I am not well enough acquainted with the business men of the city to know whether there was any in the crowd or not.
Q. Did you see the mayor?
A. I haven't seen the mayor to know him since 1860; I probably would not know him on the street.
Q. Did you find any difficulty in getting into the city that day, from New Brighton, Beaver county?
A. No, sir; I found no difficulty at all. Trains came in on time. At the Allegheny depot the strikers boarded the train and run it to Federal street station, and said they would not run it over to Pittsburgh.
Q. Did the trains go out on the roads leading west?
A. Yes; they went out whenever Boss Amnion, as he was called, said that train should go.
Q. He allowed the passenger trains to run?
A. No interference, so far as I know, in regard to passenger trains. I had no trouble at all in getting home.
Q. Did you see anything of General Latta that day?
A. I did not; I am not personally acquainted with him: probably might have seen him, and not known him.
Q. Were you at the city hall that day or any other day?
A. I was at the city hall at seven o'clock, Monday morning.
Q. Who was there?
A. I can say that the mayor was not there, as I heard him inquired for half a dozen times. The rest were strangers to me.
Q. Did you see the chief of police or any of the officials there?
A. Not to my knowledge—there was not. I made inquiry for the chief of police—if the chief of police was in, and I was told he was not.
Q. What class of people were there?
A. They seemed to be employés around there, or some persons that seem to be well acquainted with the office; they were sitting there.
Q. Tell us what you heard said there?
A. I went into the chief of police's office—the left hand entrance going into the city hall—and seen one gentlemen that I was slightly acquainted with, Mr. Carrigan, and spoke to him. He got up and went out. There were two or three gentlemen—strangers—I got into conversation with them about it, and one of them, a large, tall man, with heavy black whiskers, says he, "We won't be satisfied here until this track is torn up to the point." He brought his fist down; says he, "We have been imposed on long enough."
Q. Until the track was torn up to the point—what track did he refer to?
A. He mentioned the Liberty street track?
Q. What was referred to by the word "point?"
A. I suppose it is the old Duquesne depot on the point.
Q. At the junction of the Allegheny and Monongahela?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He referred to the Liberty street track?
A. Referred to the Liberty street track to be torn up to satisfy the citizens.
Q. Who was the man?
A. I can't name him. He was a stranger to me.
Q. Do you know where he belonged?
A. I do not know, but judged from his conversation that he belonged to the city of Pittsburgh, from the manner in which he used that expression.
Q. What else did you hear said there?
A. People were commenting about it in general terms. I came down Sunday night, after the fire had got cooled down somewhat. I went to the Saint James hotel, opposite the Union depot, to take a look. I went out of curiosity, and got in over the hot coals, so as to have it said that I ate a meal in the Saint James while it was hot. I walked all around the burned district; that is, the elevator, Union depot, and Pan Handle yard, watched the firemen, went down to where the firemen were playing on the ruins, and came down then through what is known as the metal yard, and there I heard a conversation amongst the men. I couldn't tell you the exact number, but I should think there was a hundred and fifty congregated around there, some of them dead drunk, and some half drunk, and some of them drunk enough to go any place. I heard them say: "We must go to this place. There is no police, and they won't interfere with us any way."
Q. What place did he refer to?
A. I don't know what place they referred to. I thought it was a rather dangerous place for me, being without any arms, any more than natural fists, and I didn't stay any longer.
Q. Did you hear any conversation, while at the city hall, from the mayor's clerks in reference to the riot and burning?
A. No; I don't know as I did. There was a gentleman came in there, and inquired for the mayor. Says he: "There is a big lot of miners coming down here," and, says he, "we don't know what to do." He inquired where he was, and wanted something done to stop them. No person seemed to know what to do.
Q. How long did you remain at the city hall?
A. I remained there until Monday evening—at the city hall?
Q. Yes?
A. Probably I was there an hour.
Q. Was the mayor away all the time that you were there?
A. I didn't hear of the mayor coming in while I was there at all. He might have went to his office while I was in there.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. What time were you at the city hall?
A. I should judge about seven o'clock in the morning—Monday morning.
Q. When you went into the tobacco store, and told this man he had better be moving, what reply did he make?
A. Says he: "I think not. They won't let it come down this far will they?"
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. How did you happen to be here?
A. I came up on purpose to see it. Heard of it at home, and came up.
Q. On purpose to see the riot?
A. On purpose to see what was going on, like hundreds of others.
By Mr. Means:
Q. This man that was in the city hall that said they would not be satisfied until the track was torn up down to the point—was he dressed in citizen's clothes?
A. Yes; I judged by his dress and conversation that he was a resident of the place.
Q. Did the other men make any reply when he made that remark?
A. No; no reply was made.
Q. You would take him then to be a citizen of Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. How many men from Beaver county came up?
A. Indeed, I could hardly state—I should judge a hundred or one hundred and fifty.
Q. At the same time?
A. Yes; and some of them were railroad men down there, and were interested here.
Q. Were they with you at the time you had the conversation with that man?
A. No, sir; at that time I was by myself.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You spoke about some armed men you saw going up the hill—did you ascertain who they were?
A. No, sir; I did not. I was told they were some Philadelphia men that had been left in there.
Q. Left in the depot?
A. Left in the depot as a guard.
Q. How were they uniformed?
A. Some had caps on, some pants—I would judge they belonged to the soldiers, on account of the weapons they had in their hands—they were breech-loaders.
Q. Did they make any effort to prevent any destruction of property?
A. In what way.
Q. You spoke about marching along the hill, or up the hill?
A. When I spoke about them they were escaping from the Union depot. At that time the flames were coming in from the shed. They were going over the hill towards the reservoir.
Q. This man you had the conversation with down at the municipal hall, at the office of the chief of police, did he appear to be connected with the office there in any way?
A. Well, indeed I can't say. He was in this office, and I struck up a conversation with him. I don't know how we got to talking about it. I spoke to Mr. Carrigan, the only one I knew. He went out, and there was no other person I had conversation with but him, and he seemed to be at home.
Q. Do you know where Mr. Carrigan lives?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is Carrigan's name?
A. I can't tell you that.
Q. Does he live here in Pittsburgh?
A. I believe he does.
Q. Can you give his place of business or residence?
A. No, sir; I can't do that. I met him on special duty at one time—he appeared to be connected with the detective force at one time here.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Can you name any gentlemen that came up from Beaver with you?
A. Mr. Robinson.
Q. What is his first name?
A. Hugh Robinson.
Q. Any other?
A. Mr. Edgar.
Q. Mr. Edgar—what is his first name?
A. John P.
Q. Who else?
A. Mr. Jagger.
Q. What is his first name?
A. Fred.
Q. All these men were with you on the ground?
A. They were scattered through the crowd. I was separated from them pretty much all the time. Only just occasionally we would meet.
Q. Are they from the town of Beaver?
A. New Brighton.
Q. Any others?
A. There was Major Henry, from Beaver, and Mr. Macomber, of Beaver Falls file works.
Doctor Edward Donnelly, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Examined of Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Reside at 62 Stevenson street. My office is 133 Grand street.
Q. You are a practicing physician in city?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just go on and make a brief statement of what you saw in relation to the riots?
A. My first knowledge of the riots was on Saturday, the 21st of July, about an hour or so previous to the arrival of the troops from the east. I was induced to go to Twenty-eighth street, hearing that there was a large concourse of people assemble there, and they were there for the purpose of preventing any trains leaving the city—any freight trains, and having the dread of riots before my eyes—I had seen other riots in Philadelphia, in 1844—I apprehended that there might be some little difficulty, and as I have some influence with the Irish portion of the people of the city, I thought it my duty to go there, and try to induce them to leave the place, and not enter into any measures that would tend to criminate themselves or break the laws of the country. That was the reason I went there. When I arrived at the ground—I drove out in my buggy—when I arrived there, I found about fifteen hundred people. I presume, assembled—fifteen hundred to two thousand, and several companies of soldiers—the Fourteenth regiment, Greys, I believe, some of them, and the Nineteenth. I am not sure that there was any Greys there—I think it was the Fourteenth and the Nineteenth regiments. I saw Colonel Grey's command on the side of the hill, and I inquired of him who had charge of the troops here, as they were in rather a disorderly condition, I consider, in a military point of view. They were mingling freely with the crowd in groups here and there, and seemed to have no order or discipline amongst them. They told me General Brown had command; and I then went down amongst the crowd on the railroad track, where Twenty-eighth street intersects the road, and I met General Brown, and inquired of him if he was in command of the troops. He said he was. Said I, "you are not in military uniform—you have no uniform on." He was dressed as a citizen. I thought it was a very remarkable thing. He then asked me if I would make a speech to the crowd, so as to disperse them, or induce them to disperse, and leave the track free for the cars to go out—engines and so on. I told him that I did not think it was my place, but if it would be of any benefit I would certainly do so; and he said "yes," he thought it would be necessary, because there was troops coming from Philadelphia and Easton; that the railroad company had sent for troops to disperse any mob that would attempt to interfere with the running of trains; and, perhaps, it would be best, in order to prevent any disturbance, for me to address the crowd to that effect. I hesitated somewhat, and inquired then before I consented. Said I, "who is the leader of the strikers?" Said he "there he is," pointing to a tall man that was very busy in the crowd, making motions with his fingers to his companions—that is, trainmen, firemen, and engineers. Said I "call him here and see what he says about my addressing this crowd." This man was called, and he also thought it advisable for me to do so—they did not want any disturbance, and they would like the crowd to disperse—they could manage this business themselves without any outsiders; and at this solicitation of Brown, and this chief man amongst the strikers, I got up on the steps of a small oil house, that is fronting the round-house—standing there yet—and I addressed the crowd present, and what I said on that day to them was published in the afternoon paper—in the Leader—I have a copy of it here. I told them that it was necessary for them to disperse—if you would like to here the exact words I would read them for you.
Q. Is it lengthy?
A. No, sir; it is very short. It was so to the point at the time that I thought it best to preserve it, and this is copied from the Leader of the 21st, the afternoon of the-day of the occurrence, and this address was delivered about one hour before the arrival of the troops. The reporter says he addressed—that is. Doctor Donnelly—addressed the strikers as his fellow-countrymen. I did so because I have been in the habit of addressing Irishmen in public meetings, and it was more of a habit than anything else. Instead of saying "fellow-citizens," I said countrymen; not because they were all Irish, but because it is a habit I had in using that term, and exhorted them not to resort to violence. "No striker," he said, "had ever yet succeeded where violence was resorted to. Violence was invariably met with violence, and ended in the discomfiture of the strikers. It was opposed and contrary to the fundamental laws of the land. He entreated them to maintain law and order. To reflect before taking any rash step, and to remember that law-breakers must, in the natural course of things, suffer. He urged them to be prudent upon the arrival of the troops from the east. The troops from Philadelphia, said he, and the troops from Easton and elsewhere are not to you like the Duquesne Greys or the Fourteenth regiment or the Nineteenth regiment. They are not, I might say, your brothers. You cannot go to them and take their hands and say to them, 'how are you, Jim?' or 'how are you, Tom' or 'how is it with you, Patrick?' These men will come here strangers to you, and they will come here regarding you as we regarded the rebels during the rebellion, and there will be no friendly feeling between you and them. For this reason, I implore you, for God's sake, to stand back when they arrive. To stand off and allow your leaders, who hold the throttle of this movement, to deal with them. For this reason I implore those of you who have no business here to go home to your families. It is your duty to do so. It is your duty to them, to your country, and to the laws of your country. Leave the matter in the hands of your leaders, who know what is for the best, better than you do, and you will leave it in good hands. I have been assured of this. I have been informed by the men who are leading this strike that they will exercise the greatest caution and forbearance when the soldiers arrive, and I entreat you to stand back, and let them manage the thing in their own way." That was the import of it.
Q. Were you near Twenty-eighth street when you made that?
A. I was right amongst them, sir.
Q. At Twenty-eighth street?
A. At Twenty-eighth street and the round-house. The crowd was between the round-house and myself—some fifteen hundred or two thousand, including; soldiers and all.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. It was on the steps of the watch-box?
A. I was on the steps of a small building where oil is kept. The steps are high up, and I had a good location and a good view of the surroundings. They listened very patiently, and as there was a great number of women and children among them, I deemed it my duty to warn them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Before you go on, state to us what effect this address had upon them?
A. It seemed to have a good effect upon them as far as the women and children, and a great number of men retired and went away; and there was a kindly feeling apparent amongst the people and amongst the soldiers that were there. There was no evidence of violence, nor none apprehended, except when the troops would arrive from the cast. The only fear that appeared to exist amongst the bystanders and those I conversed with, was a conflict between the eastern troops and the people.
Q. Were the troops—the soldiers of the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments—mixed up with the crowd at that time?
A. Yes; there was neither order nor discipline amongst them.
Q. Did they have their arms with them?
A. They had some arms on the ground. Some had them with them and some were stacked in different places along the side of the hill and at the bottom of the hill.
Q. Were they dressed in uniform?
A. Yes; with the exception of General Brown, who was in citizen's dress, and he was the commander-in-chief. I inquired for General Pearson. I understood he was with the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Go on, now, Doctor.
A. My address seemed to have considerable influence with the strikers and trainmen and others; and they had their meeting-place on Penn street, near Twenty-eighth. I think it was over a segar store; and I was requested to meet them that afternoon. I did so, and they delegated me to wait on the officials of the road to make terms, to put an end to any further disturbances. They requested me to see Mr. Thaw. I think he is an official of the road, one of the vice presidents, if I am not mistaken—William Thaw, I think his name is, and Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng. I went to Mr. Thaw's house two or three times, but was unable to find him. I then went to Allegheny, and met Mr. Layng and Colonel McCullough, and told them what the strikers wanted, and endeavored to persuade them to meet the strikers or to make some promise that would put an end to further difficulty and trouble, or the shooting of people or destruction of property. They were both together, and I conversed with them, and I gave them the terms the strikers had authorized me to make. I took it from the strikers and wrote it down in pencil at the time, and it is here—the terms they wished me to propose to the officers of the road, to Mr. Thaw and Colonel Scott, if he was in town. After informing these gentlemen what the strikers demanded, they told me they could do nothing in the matter whatever—it was above their power to do anything.
Q. You may read what the strikers demanded.
A. This is what they demanded: "Authorized by strikers to visit Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng to effect a compromise on the basis of taking off double-headers; same wages as prior to June 1, 1877; each man to receive his position prior to strike."
Q. Retain his position prior to strike—receive or retain?
A. They said receive at that time—"classification of engines done away with; each engineer to receive first-class wages, same as prior to June 1, 1877; each engine, road or shifting, to have own fireman"—that was the conditions on which they wished to make a compromise with the officials of the road, and by all means to endeavor to have them meet them, so as to make some kind of a compromise. Their great object seemed to be to have a conference with the officials.
Q. What time did you get that proposition?
A. It was in the afternoon of Saturday.
Q. Before the collision with the troops?
A. It was after the collision. I had not heard of the collision at that time. I had been hunting Mr. Thaw in the afternoon, and then had gone to Allegheny, and I had to procure the aid of a gentleman to go with me to learn where Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng lived.
Q. Did you get the proposition before the collision from the strikers?
A. The strikers gave me the proposition previous to the collision, I think.
Q. What time did you present it?
A. I presented it—it must have been, perhaps, four o'clock or five—it was in the afternoon.
Q. What response did you get—reply?
A. They told me they could do nothing at all in the matter, nor did they seemed disposed to do anything. They conversed about the matter as indifferently as if it was a thing on the other side of the Atlantic—took no interest in it, but referred me to President Scott.
Q. Did you return to Twenty-eighth street that night again—Saturday night?
A. I did, sir; went there several times. I reported the interview, and they said they would try to meet the officers—they would meet the officers at East Liberty, and that they had sent out word to some of the officers—I think Mr. Pitcairn and some other officers—to meet them at East Liberty, and they had gone out there. This was late in the evening. They had gone out to East Liberty, but they could get no satisfaction out of the officers there; and they had also telegraphed to Mr. Scott, president of the road, and had received no answer, and that they had used every means in their power to make some compromise with the officers of the road, but had failed.
Q. Were you present when the fire occurred and the first car was fired?
A. No, sir; I was not present at any firing. I was pretty late that evening out at Twenty-eighth street, and there was an immense concourse of people all along Liberty street for several squares, but, as I had my horse with me I did not go amongst them at all on the tracks. I merely reported my interview between myself and Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng, and I then went home.
Q. Your effort was particularly confined to adjusting the compromise and difficulty between the strikers and the railroad?
A. Railroad officials at that time.
Q. Did you have any negotiations with the mayor about additional policemen?
A. That Saturday I had not. On Saturday I had not, but on the next morning, Sunday morning, I was very active, indeed, to endeavor to raise and organize a vigilance committee for the purpose of suppressing the riot and saving the property of the railroad company, and other property; dreading that the city would be set on fire and plundered by mobs.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. These railroad officials you called to see in Allegheny—General McCullough and Thaw and Layng—what railroad company are they connected with? Pennsylvania Central?
A. They are all connected with the same company. I presume they represent the Cleveland and Cincinnati—that western part of the Pennsylvania Central.
Q. Pennsylvania Company—not the Pennsylvania Central?
A. I didn't know that there was any difference. Mr. Thaw is certainly connected with the Pennsylvania Central. I think he is one of the vice presidents.
Q. The Pennsylvania Company managed the road west of Pittsburgh?
A. I don't really know what their positions were. I was solicited by these men to interview them, supposing that they were the proper authorities in the matter. Mr. Thaw was proper authority in the absence of Colonel Scott or other officials that could not be found.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What success did you meet with in trying to organize a force on Sunday morning?
A. On Sunday morning the citizens met near the old city hall and formed a kind of organization there, and finally adjourned to the new city hall, and there we organized a committee of safety, composed of citizens, to take measures to assist the mayor—employ a force of policemen, as he was very deficient in a police force at the time, and had but a few men on duty; and the object was to organize a strong police force to aid and assist the mayor in suppressing the riot, which then had become very alarming. We were all day nearly in doing a very little. The citizens seemed to be panic stricken, and there seemed to be no head at all in the city amongst the officials or amongst the people. The mayor seemed to be powerless. The sheriff, I believe, had ran away, and, in fact, we seemed to have no city government for the protection of the city or the people.
Q. What did the mayor do in the way of assisting in this organization?
A. The mayor—he didn't do a great deal, he seemed to be running around at one thing and another, and he seemed to be so confused and incapable of organizing anything, that he really did do nothing. I understood there was two companies of troops come down from up the Monongahela in charge of an old army companion of mine. I suggested that he had better try to get those two companies, and take them down where the riot was going on, and do something. We found that these troops had returned again, and they were not there, and we came back again, and, finding that the riot was still going on and nothing being done, he authorized me to collect as many citizens as I possibly could, and go down there and see if we could suppress the disturbance, and I organized about sixty men, composed partly of lawyers, a few physicians, and other gentlemen, who were determined to use every effort to suppress the disturbance; and we first armed ourselves with axe handles, which a gentleman on Wood street procured for us out of his store. I considered that didn't look very military, and somebody suggested that there were rifles at the Western University, up on Diamond street, and we concluded to make a raid on the university. We did so, with the sanction of the mayor, and we got the rifles, and then there was no ammunition, and we put the bayonets on them, and with a company of sixty men, and myself as the colonel—I had been commissioned by the mayor to act as such—we marched down to the scene of the riot and arson, each gentleman had a white handkerchief tied on his arm to distinguish them from the rest of the crowd that was there assembled—it may look very ludicrous just now, but it was a very serious matter then. We marched down amongst them, and the crowd sort of stood to one side and let us pass through. I arranged the men on each side of Liberty street, where I supposed they were going to set lire to the large stores. At that time the grain elevator had been destroyed, and the property adjoining the metal yard, adjoining this large ware-house, was also on fire. There was a fence running from the middle yard up to one of the stores, I proposed to some of the rioters present to tear that fence down and save that property, two or three of them said, well, what do you want, I said we didn't want private property destroyed, so a gang of them went over and tore the fence down, and the flames didn't extend any further in that direction. After staying there some time, and seeing that there was no evidence of breaking into stores or setting fire to private property, we retired; that is, we retreated to the city hall, and stacked our arms in the building, and dispersed for the night. The next morning we were not organized again, the city seemed pretty quiet, and the crowd had understood that the citizens were taking an active part in protecting the city.
Q. Let me ask you a question there. Supposing you had arrived with your regiment—you say you were a commissioned colonel—suppose you had arrived on the ground before the fire reached the Union depot, do you think that you could have kept the mob back and prevented the firing of the Union depot with that body?
A. I do think that if I had been authorized and given me fifty or sixty good men, that understood their duty, and were obedient to orders and had loaded rifles before that depot burned, it could have been saved. I went there and tried to save that depot, and took Bishop Tuigg with me to go out there, thinking that there might be a number of our countrymen there engaged in that, and that he would have some influence with them, to save the property of the company, and save the building. I stood on the platform of a car with the bishop, and he first addressed them, and in looking over the crowd, I found that the crowd were not Irishmen. As we soon discovered, they began throwing iron ore and other missiles at the bishop's head, which no good Catholic would do, unless he was an Orangeman. I also addressed them, and a burly fellow came up and said, get down from here, Doctor, we are going to set fire to this, and I considered it most prudent to get down. With fifty good men, I would have cleared that place in a very few minutes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know that man that came up to you?
A. I would know him if I ever saw him. I felt very vindictive towards him at that moment. I did try to save an engine by pulling a fellow off who would not allow the engineer to try to run it off. I pulled him off and said let that man take the engine off. He was drunk at the time, and he said something to me, but anyhow they kept the engine there until it was burned. If the officials even of the depot—if the officials of the road, or the employés of the road, had any courage at all on Monday, they could have saved that building. There was no trouble about it, because the outside people were perfectly indifferent, looking on and affording no resistance.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Supposing the officials connected with the road there had made an effort to have driven them back, what effect would that have had upon the crowd?
A. The crowd that was there at that time could have been easily driven away.
Q. Would it have excited them worse?
A. I think not. I think the citizens were all disposed at that time to aid to enforce law and order. It was the feeling. That was on Sunday, mind you. On Sunday afternoon at that time I believe every citizen was disposed to enforce law and order, and that the rioting element would not have had any chance whatever, and they would not have been supported.
Q. How many were actually engaged in the arson and rioting at that time?
A. From my looking at them and looking amongst them, and as they were assembled together to listen to what we had to say, I don't think there was fifty men really.
Q. Engaged in the riot?
A. I don't think there was that many, because they were dispersed amongst the crowd of people, and you could only tell the bad element amongst them by their appearance, and by their dress, and by their half drunken condition.
Q. Had you any talk with the mayor during the day, Sunday, about sending out a posse of policemen there?
A. I had talked with the mayor on several occasions. I urged him to try to organize a force, and I asked him several times very plainly why he had not arrested these rioters, I mean the strikers, the head of them, that were inciting riot, and he said that he had done his duty in that respect, but that he had been superseded Ivy Mr. Hampton and Dalzell, and other persons connected with the railroad, in taking it out of his hands, and placing the authority in the hands of the sheriff, and that he would let them manage the matter—something to that effect—and that seemed to be his principal reason for not having acted more energetically—that the officers of the road had taken the matter out of his hands.
Q. He was out there during the day Sunday looking over the crowd?
A. I didn't see him out there, I think, unless he was there, and I didn't see him. I was going to say that these are some of the strikers who sent the communication [indicating a paper] to the mayor and myself. This is addressed to the Honorable Mr. McCarthy and Doctor Donnelly. Metzgar was chief clerk of the mayor at that time, and this communication was sent. I had been soliciting these strikers to aid us in suppressing the riot, to enter in with us, and make their appearance amongst us, to show that they were not in favor of pillaging, burning, &c. This is addressed to the Honorable M. J. McCarthy: "Have gone to the Twenty-sixth street, with Cunningham, of the strikers, with McKeon. Say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you, and will do my best." That is underlined: "Will do my very best. Tell Donnelly, if they come, see that they get instructions." That is, I was to go down with the force, at that time, with proper instructions. That is the name of the gentleman, I can hardly make it out, it is very peculiar writing, "W. N. Riddle," I should think it was. He was to aid and assist us, with his strikers, to suppress these disturbances.
Q. Riddle—was this the man that requested you——
A. That was not the man. That man I could never find afterwards. He was a tall man, a thin spare-faced man, a very active man, he seemed to have some influence over them. One of the strikers gave me that, [indicating paper.] I understood it was from a principal one of them, at the time.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. How long did it take you to raise that force of yours?
A. It took me all day. 1 never saw such apathy or cowardice among the citizens.
Q. They did not appear to be anxious?
A. Men that should have done their duty, as citizens, were promenading Fifth avenue, and it was very difficult to get citizens. I must say to the credit of the bar, that they did their duty.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you give us the names of some of the lawyers that were members of that company?
A. Colonel Haymaker was one of them, Mr. Harper was another—there was quite a number, Dr. Sutton was one, he was second in command. I have the names of most of them.
Q. I believe you find lawyers and doctors among the best citizens, as a general thing?
A. We do our duty, if we can.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Could you have got fifty or sixty good men, with rifles and ammunition, at the time that you and Bishop Tuigg went up to remonstrate with the mob?
A. We could not—not at that time. We had been ineffectual all day to organize a company, and there was no arms to be had yet; there was troops at the old city hall, but there seemed to be nobody in command to do anything, to take the responsibility, there seemed to be really no person at the head of anything.
By Mr. Means:
Q. This whole machine appeared to have no head?
A. Yes; it appeared, as I said before, it appeared that the mayor was indifferent. He said that it was the railroad company that was running this thing, and he would let them run it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say there was troops at the city hall. How many, and who were they—what organization?
A. There was part of a company of the Nineteenth regiment—a company there of the Nineteenth regiment. I forget who had charge of them. I know the gentleman very well, but I cannot think of his name. He went out afterwards in command of one of the regiments to the east from here. A tall, nice-looking young man. He had charge of the regiment. Howard, I think it was—Hartley Howard, I think, was the gentleman.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Had the mayor intimated to you that the railroad officials had taken this matter into their own hands?
A. They had interfered with him in executing an order. They had interfered in arresting some man. He had not acted as promptly as they thought. It appears that Mr. Hampton and Dalzell—I think he used the names jointly—had taken these writs from him and given them into the hands of the sheriff.
By Mr. Means:
Q. And that he would not interfere?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You said a while ago that the sheriff had run away. How did you know he had run away?
A. He was not to be found anywhere. I had not seen him that day. I heard he had left. They had threatened to burn his house, and he had left the city. As the sheriff is a man subject to heart disease, I presume it was his duty not to risk his life amongst them. I heard there was a strong feeling against him, and he had left. I had not seen the sheriff after that day.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What day was this you were speaking of?
A. That was on Sunday.
Q. Did you see him there on Saturday with the troops?
A. No, sir; I did see the sheriff on Saturday.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. You stated in your speech to the people that you had been informed by those who led the strike that they would manage the matter prudently, so as to have no trouble. Who were those parties that informed you they were leading the strike? Can you give us the names?
A. I can ascertain the names of some of them, but I don't know the names now. I don't remember them. There was one little man very active. His brother keeps a drug store at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets. He seemed to be very active amongst them.
Q. Do you know his name?
A. No, sir; I can find out his name. I can find out the names of several of them. I think I have them written down. This gent—I thought his name was attached to that paper—was a city man, very active. He seemed to be the leading spirit amongst them, but I found he was the man that brought that document there.
Q. He is not the one that signed it?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How do you account for the apathy or cowardice that existed in the city about going out to take steps to stop this?
A. The only way I can account for it is that there was a feeling amongst the people that these men had been treated very unjustly by the railroad company; that it had reduced their wages down to a starvation point, and that they had been treated unjustly. There has been a feeling here more or less ever since I have been in Pittsburgh—twelve years—since the war, against the railroad company, on account of its unjust actions against the mercantile interests of Pittsburgh. There has always been more or less of that kind of feeling against the company, as I told the Governor in my interview with him on the Sunday night that he was here. That feeling has existed against Tom Scott and the railroad company. The overbearing manner of their officials, and their want of making any compromise whatever, or showing any disposition whatever to compromise with their employés; that has been the feeling engendered in this city for years.
Q. How extensive is that disposition?
A. It is amongst almost the whole class of people, intelligent as well as ignorant, that feeling has existed.
Q. The business men and professional men?
A. The business men—many of the business men—have been bitter enemies of the road on account of the discrimination in freights that has existed. That feeling has permeated the whole community—it permeated the whole community, and I had that same feeling and that same antagonism to the road myself. As I told the Governor, Tom Scott should come down from his empyrean and mingle amongst the people, and he should assert his right of being Governor of the State, and not Tom Scott.
Q. What reply did the Governor make?
A. The Governor made one of his bland smiles.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. He is a good listener?
A. Yes; that was up in the hotel where he stopped the Sunday night.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In your negotiations, mingling with the strikers and endeavoring to adjust matters, did you ascertain the reason or the cause of the strike?
A. This was the cause that I stated, just what is set forth in this paper, [indicating paper,] that was the cause, and that was what they wanted, an adjustment on that basis.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did any one sign that paper setting forth their grievances?
A. Only I had a meeting with them. I wrote down what they wanted.
Q. You wrote that down yourself?
A. They would not permit anybody, they had confidence in me or they wouldn't have entrusted me. They saw I was disposed to do what was right. I acted prudently with them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were any of the strikers, that is the railroad employés, who first struck, engaged in this arson, burning, and pillaging?
A. The persons whom I saw engaged in this arson business, and the crowd that I addressed on Sunday were rioters. They appeared to me to be all strangers. They were not really citizens of Pittsburgh. They appeared to me to be all strangers. There was no strikers. I saw none of the strikers that I knew, whose countenances I would remember amongst the rioters. They appeared to keep aloof. They appeared to keep away, and when we wanted to find them or have any conversation with them, we had our meeting down at their place. The bishop and the delegation of citizens from this committee of public safety, went down to meet them away down at their head-quarters, at Twenty-eighth street, where we had a conference with them. They were perfectly powerless, yet disposed to do all they could to save the property and suppress the riot.
Q. Who were the men engaged in this arson and burning?
A. That is more than I can tell you who they were. They appeared to be a class of men I had never seen before.
Q. Were they mill men?
A. Many of them looked like laboring men. Most of them were young men, reckless young fellows, half drunk, and of a class you would call roughs, which you will find always around cities and places where there is anything going on, you don't know who they are—they appeared to be all young men.
Q. From the works about the city?
A. They might have been; I don't know. I couldn't recognize them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Didn't one recognize and call to you "Doctor, get down from that?"
A. They knew me well enough—these men knew me well enough.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Told you to get down from there, and said they were going to burn that car?
A. Yes; they had made up their minds to burn the depot.
Q. Did he say that?
A. No, sir; I judged that. That was our effort to save the depot. I induced the bishop to go down myself.
Q. In the practice of your profession, have you become acquainted, more or less, with the laboring men about the city?
A. Yes; I have. I am a great deal amongst them—factories, mills, and all around the neighborhood. I have a great deal of intercourse with that class of people as a surgeon amongst them.
Q. Did you recognize any of that class in this crowd?
A. I didn't recognize—yes, I recognized two men, that I have since endeavored to find, who were amongst the rioters—that was the only two.