AFTERNOON SESSION.
Orphans' Court Room.
Pittsburgh, Tuesday, February 12, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
Joseph S. Haymaker, recalled.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What sympathy did the rioters seem to get from the surrounding crowds of spectators?
A. Do you mean on Saturday?
Q. Yes.
A. I can hardly say; I was one of the party myself. Do you mean after they were fired into?
Q. From that time until Monday.
A. On Saturday, the 20th of July, the general feeling seemed to be, up to the time of the firing, that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company had not done exactly what was right with their employés.
Q. To what extent did that feeling exist in the community?
A. I cannot say about the community, because I was at my home sick for six weeks before that time. I can only speak of the crowd that was there at the same time I was. So far as that was concerned, I suppose they felt about as I did, that as they were getting pretty good pay for their shipments, and everything of that kind, it seemed to be kind of rough, to cut down their wages so much. It was a kind of general feeling, that the railroad company had not done exactly what was right with their employés, but I found nobody who could give me a definite explanation of the reason why the people of Pittsburgh should be against the railroad company—that is, I could not find anybody who could give me any reason why there should be any strike between the people of the city and the railroad company, on account of the way the railroad company had treated their employés; but immediately after the fire was over, I did not hear any question of that kind raised. The prevailing question was how we were going to get out of the trouble we were in.
Q. In your judgment, would it not have been proper for the officer in command of the military force, at five o'clock on Saturday afternoon, to have given the command to fire?
A. I most undoubtedly think it would have been.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. There was sufficient provocation to justify the giving of that command?
A. Yes; my recollection is, I heard an order given by some officer, commanding either a company or a regiment of the Philadelphia soldiers up at the front of the line that was formed there—an order given to those men to disperse and go back, and I think he gave the order in this way: "Now," he says, "why don't you men go back?" It was half a minute after that when I heard the first pistol shot fired, and then from that the firing began. I think, that when the order was given to go back and clear the tracks, that he would have been justified in ordering the men to fire, although I heard no order to fire.
Q. And followed up the firing until he dispersed the crowd?
A. I believe that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What troops were on the ground at that time?
A. I do not know. I simply know this. That certain troops or uniformed men came up the Pennsylvania railroad from the depot, and formed in line in front of the upper round-house, at the corner of Twenty-eighth street, and at that time some of our Pittsburgh soldiers were on the hill side above—some of our Allegheny county soldiers on the hill side above.
Q. But those on the railroad were Philadelphia troops?
A. I believed them to be from Philadelphia.
Q. Do you know anything about the conduct of the Pittsburgh troops called out here during that day, or any time during the riot?
A. No; except this far, that when I came up to Twenty-eighth street, and before the Philadelphia soldiers came up there, I walked across Twenty-eighth street, up the hill side, where there was part of a company—part of one of the western Pennsylvania companies, or a Pittsburgh company, I do not know which it was, and when I got to the top of the hill side I was a good deal out of breath——
Q. After the firing?
A. Before the firing—probably an hour before. There was one of the private soldiers belonging to some company—I do not know any thing about him. He had a uniform on, and I asked him the question: "How long have you been here?" and he said, "since last night." I said, "how long are you going to stay here?" and he says, "I don't know." I said, "you may likely be called upon to clear the tracks down there;" and he said, "they may call on me, and they may call pretty damn loud before they will clear the tracks." At the same time, I looked in the man's face, and I thought he might be called upon to all eternity before he would do anything reasonable. The company, at that time, was scattered—standing all around.
Q. Was this company far from the mob?
A. Probably one hundred feet—probably one hundred and fifty feet.
Q. Were their arms stacked?
A. Yes; I know that after the firing, one dead soldier was carried down from about the spot where I had been talking to this man, down to the Twenty-eighth street crossing.
Q. Were the men with their guns where they were stacked?
A. Some of them were down on the railroad track, and some were on the hill-side, and some were around their guns, and some were back towards the hospital.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Didn't you say those were Philadelphia troops up at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; that is, I understood that.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You spoke about those strange men you thought were strangers in Pittsburgh, that had come from a distance. Have you any knowledge of people coming to Pittsburgh at any time previous to the 19th of July?
A. I can say this in reference to that, but as a lawyer I would say that part of it is hearsay evidence, that is, I do not know it to be a fact myself. I live below Pittsburgh, about seven miles, on the Fort Wayne road, at Laurel station, and I know from the time I went down last spring, we had much trouble with tramps. Probably two or three, or four or five, or six or seven, would be there every day. But about four days before this trouble—it was on the Friday before this trouble—at that time I was not at home sick—I recollect my wife saying to me, that "we have had no tramps down here for the last few days," and I said, "they will come back again," and until after the rioting and the burning here, we had but one tramp at our house, until the third day after—that was on Sunday. Then they began to come back every day. I have heard others of my neighbors say the same thing. And almost every night, looking from my library towards the river, I could see along the river bank that these tramps would have fires, and I have seen, when I would come down to the train in the morning—I have seen as high as fifteen or twenty around these fires. But for two or three days before the riot—that is, before the burning here, and for one or two days after that time, I noticed very few of those fires, if any, and we were not troubled with these tramps at our house; and after the trouble was all over, it made such an impression on me, that I loaded a double-barreled shot gun, and told my wife how to use it, and told her if they came around not to do anything for them. I did not consider them fit subjects for charity.
James Bown, sworn with the uplifted hand.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your business, and where is your place of business?
A. Nos. 136 and 138 Wood street, Pittsburgh.
Q. What kind of business do you carry on?
A. It is the cutlery business—guns and sporting goods in general—manufacturing.
Q. I wish you to state what efforts you made to protect your store on the night of the 21st—Saturday night. You went to see the mayor. What efforts did you make?
A. I was absent from the city until about seven and a half o'clock that evening, and when I came to the store I found it was shut up. I met my second son there, and I asked him what the trouble was. Well, he said the mob had broken into some of the pawnbrokers, up in the Fifth ward, and also into one of our competitor's. I asked him where my other son was, and he said at the back end of the store. I got into the back yard and went into the store and found them there making preparations to take some of the valuable guns into the cellar—into the vault. It looked as if things were serious. I said, "I will go out and look around, and see what the trouble is." They commenced to put away the goods as fast as they could. Of course they had to use great judgment about taking the fine guns into the cellar. I was away perhaps half an hour. As soon as I went out into the alley, I met Mr. Follensbee and Mr. Myers. I said, "Things look serious around here." The mayor's clerk was there, Mr. Metzgar, and perhaps half a dozen people were congregated in the alley. He said, "Gentlemen, you had better disperse. We would rather not have anybody around here, so as not to excite anybody." I told him it was a good suggestion, and Mr. Myers and Mr. Follensbee and myself went into our yard. It was then pretty near dark. I said, "Let us go up to Smithfield street, and see what they are doing." I understood there was quite a crowd in front of Mr. Johnston's, another competitor of our's. We went up the alley and then turned to the left and went down towards Sixth avenue. An immense crowd was in front of this gun store, but had done no damage. Several policemen were in front of the store. In going through the crowd several sang out, "Let's go down to Bown's, and clean him out." I said, "That sounds pretty loud, and we had better go and see if the mayor won't send back some police." We came back to the mayor's office, and there the mayor was, standing outside. I went up to him, and addressed him as "Mac." I am rather familiar with him. I said, "We require some extra police down there, as they are going down to our store to clean us out." He said, "I will do all I can for you," and said that a good many police were up at Mr. Johnston's. I said, "It is necessary to act quick and prompt, as the crowd is now moving, and it won't take them long to come there." Mr. Follensbee spoke up, and said, "I will be one of fifty special police." I do not think he made any reply to that, but he said, "I will send some down." With that I left, and came down to the store again. Some people were in front of the store, and I think among them, perhaps, were two or three policemen—I think there were. I was more interested in securing the things just at that time, so I went into the store again, and the boys were still working, taking down the guns. They had got the pistols—the greater portion of them—into a safe we had, and Mr. Follensbee suggested to me to come around to Fifth avenue to his store. I went back through Mr. Carter's store, and went with him into his store. I was not in there two minutes until an immense rush of people came past the store, and they shoved the doors to. I said, "Open the doors, I want to see what the trouble is." I was running across the street when a friend of mine said, "There is no use in your going; they have got in." I knew a road coming through another gentleman's store and through Mr. Carter's store, and got into the back yard. The crowd was then in the store and securing all the things as fast as they could. Then Mr. Follensbee followed after me. Of course, he remonstrated outside as well he could. Everything was barricaded up so that we could not get in. I will tell you one thing that occurred there. A negro had got at my private desk and got open the drawers, and was pulling out the things, and had got among the postage stamps when we hallooed at him. The language we used was pretty severe, and he dropped everything and ran. In a few minutes, as soon as things were quieted down, we got a policeman—we tapped for him to come and open a window, and we got in. Of course, then the destruction had taken place.
Q. How long after you made that call on the mayor was it that they broke into the store?
A. Not over fifteen to twenty minutes.
Q. Did he send any policemen down?
A. Some were there in front, but I cannot say how many. Some came after the thing was over, but whether they were outside, I do not know.
Q. He made no reply when Mr. Follensbee offered to do special duty?
A. No reply at all.
Q. Nor did he make any demand on the citizens?
A. No.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Those parties took away general plunder, did they?
A. Yes.
Q. They did not come specially for guns?
A. They took everything—knives and pistols and spoons and forks and carving knives and fishing tackle, and everything they could.
Q. It was simply a party bent on plunder?
A. Yes; it was just a mob. I do not charge it on the strikers.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did you ever get track of any of those guns.
A. We got four out of the lot—those were left by parties—men that came out with three or four and just handed them to us. They preserved them for us.
Q. You never got track where they went?
A. No; we had a good many guns with marks on them—numbers, and some guns—a special kind of guns—that there are very few of here.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. About four hundred of them?
A. Yes.
Q. And a great variety of other things?
A. Yes.
Q. You recovered none of the guns?
A. No.
B. K. Walton, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were one of the deputy sheriffs in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether you were in the city during Thursday, the 19th, and during Friday.
A. I cannot say as to Thursday or Friday—I do not think that I was. I was on Saturday.
Q. State to us just what connection you had with the riotous proceedings?
A. On Saturday I was one among the deputies instructed by the sheriff to get up a posse. I went along several of the streets and asked several parties to come up. Some said they would come and some said they would not. However, not more than one or two came. We went on up to Union depot to the railroad and from there went up with the military to Twenty-eighth street. There appeared to be a crowd on both sides of the railroad, and along the railroad, as we went up. There was a great deal of turmoil and noise. We were not up there more than a few minutes until the firing commenced. Stones and pieces of bricks were thrown before the firing commenced.
Q. Where did you try to raise a posse?
A. In the streets here.
Q. To what class of men did you go?
A. To most anybody that we could get hold of—citizens of Pittsburgh.
Q. What responses did you get usually?
A. Some said they would not go under any consideration and others promised to go, but did not come when the time came.
Q. How many did you succeed in getting?
A. Out of ten or fifteen that promised to come, I think only one or two came.
Q. Did you go outside of the city in trying to raise the posse?
A. No.
Q. How many did you say there were of you that went ahead of the military?
A. I think there were from twelve to eighteen of us ahead of the militia from Union depot up to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. When the crowd began to throw stones, was it at you or the militia?
A. It appeared to be at the militia altogether.
Q. Were any of the sheriff's posse hit?
A. Not to my own knowledge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was not the sheriff struck himself?
A. Not that I saw.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Whereabouts did the sheriff's posse stand when the stones began to be thrown?
A. Some were on Twenty-eighth street, and part of the party were on this side a little piece, not more than ten or twelve feet apart.
Q. In front of the militia?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you when the militia fired?
A. On the crossing at Twenty-eighth street. Part of the crowd had got in between me and most of the others and the militia. We got mixed up at that time.
Q. Did the militia fire towards you?
A. The first firing appeared to be up the hill, and the second up the railroad where we were standing.
Q. Where did you go then?
A. I got behind a car.
Q. Where did the balance of the party go to?
A. I do not know where they all went to. Some were where I was.
Q. Did you call on any of the constables to go out with you?
A. I do not believe I did myself.
Q. Were you out during Sunday?
A. Not in connection with the office; but I was out myself.
Q. Did you see the fire?
A. Yes; I was on the hill pretty much all day above the Union depot.
Q. What time did you get on the ground?
A. I came over in the morning about nine o'clock. I live just above the top of the hill.
Q. How far had the fire approached towards the city at that time?
A. A considerable distance below the round-house.
Q. How many men were engaged in burning and running down the cars then?
A. A great many of them.
Q. Two or three hundred?
A. Yes; more than that.
Q. How many policemen would it have taken to have driven them away at that time?
A. I do not think there were enough in the city at that time.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did the sheriff command the mob to disperse before the firing?
A. I believe he did; but I was not up with him the first time he was up.
Q. What effort was made by the sheriff and his posse, or deputies, to clear the track before the military came up?
A. They tried to get them off the track—they talked to some of them, but they appeared to want to get at the military. When we got to the crossing, part of the party got away, and that is how a part of the mob got in between us and the military.
Q. Were you close to the military when the firing commenced?
A. Within ten or twelve feet, I think.
Q. Did you hear any command given to fire?
A. None whatever.
Q. If there had been a command given you would have heard it?
A. I think so—I was close enough. There appeared to be a good deal of noise going on at the time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were not with the sheriff on Friday night when he went up to Twenty-eighth street?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether he made any effort that night to raise a posse or not?
A. I do not know of my own knowledge. I was not in the city on Friday night?
Q. Did you see the crowd on Saturday morning?
A. Yes.
Q. How large was it on Saturday morning?
A. A great many people were there.
Q. Do you think a well organized police force would have been able to have driven away the crowd on Saturday morning?
A. I do not know about that. It would have depended on circumstances altogether. It would have taken a pretty good force to have driven them away.
Q. Do you think it would have been possible to have gathered a posse in and about the city—if the sheriff had started out on Saturday morning and made an effort, could he have collected a posse sufficiently large to have driven away the crowd?
A. The Saturday morning we were out?
Q. By sending out deputies through the county, do you think he could have collected a posse, or not?
A. If all were of the same opinion as the people in town, I do not think he could have got a posse. It would have been pretty hard work.
Q. How was the feeling outside the city, so far as you know?
A. Outside I do not know. In the city, the feeling appeared to be with the strikers altogether.
Q. Here in the city?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you say all the citizens?
A. No; I do not say that; but those I had any conversation with—those men I tried to get to go up there.
Soloman Coulson, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am doing nothing. At the time of this riot I was a police officer. My occupation is a brick-maker.
Q. What office did you fill at the time of the trouble?
A. I was what is called a roundsman here in this city—walking pretty much all over. I wore no uniform. I traveled into different places in the city.
Q. Where were you on Thursday morning?
A. I was at home in bed.
Q. When did you first learn of the disturbance?
A. About one o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. What took place?
A. I went to Twenty-eighth street where the disturbance was, and found detective McGovern there in charge of a posse of men. A great many railroaders were standing around, not doing anything. Along about three-forty o'clock, they made up a freight train to go out called a double-header—two engines attached to the train. Orders were given by somebody, I don't know who, that four policemen should go on each one of those locomotives. I was, myself, on one locomotive. The engine I was on, a reporter got on. He asked me if there was any danger, and I told him I thought there was, and he got off. They pulled out this train, I guess, about ten or twelve feet, and I didn't see anybody going to stop it. I thought they could very easily have taken it out at that time. I saw a man get on the track and throw his hands up, and with that they stopped, and the engineers and firemen jumped off. The police then on the engines insisted on going ahead. I did, for myself. The last man I saw getting off was a fireman. I said what are you getting off for, and he said he had got to do it.
Q. Did they refuse to go on when you insisted?
A. That man—he was a fireman or an engineer—I cannot tell which—he was doing both.
Q. It was when that man threw himself in front of the train?
A. One man did it. I think he is in jail now. That evening we had this man McCall in the Twelfth ward station, and there was a rumor that the mob was going to attack the Twelfth ward station and rescue him. I went to that station, and took that man McCall and marched down, putting twenty policemen behind us. We passed through the crowd, and nothing was said, and got down a few squares when there happened to be a friend of mine sitting in a car, and he hallooed at me and said, "For God's sake get in the car." The street was blocked. The car was stopped at the corner of Twenty-fourth and Penn, and we got in with our prisoner. Some of the crowd caught up with us. I had a revolver. One fellow put up a revolver at my ear when I struck him over the face with mine. We still kept on going, and we took our prisoner to the Central station. I didn't get back again that night. I was there again on the 21st, Saturday, and about eleven o'clock that night—Saturday night—I saw this burning. I was on Smithfield street at the time, and met a great many men coming down with goods. The feeling was not good towards me on account of this man McCall. I met a couple of parties with rolls of cloth, and we arrested them, and by morning we had more than a hundred in there for carrying off stuff. On Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left—and before they did leave—we had that man in jail that I saw shooting into them with a breech-loading rifle. I went up to the round-house, and made a search there. I heard Chief Evans state that he saw whisky running into the cellar of the round-house. I don't know where there is a cellar to the round-house, but there is a cellar to the carpenter shop.
Q. Is the carpenter-shop not one part of the round-house?
A. The carpenter-shop is on the right, and there was a space of thirty or forty feet between them. The Philadelphia troops I saw leave the round-house. They came out and formed, and went off.
Q. How did they come out?
A. In a body, in regular marching order.
Q. Where was the crowd when they came out?
A. Very scarce.
Q. Where had the crowd gone to?
A. Dispersed and secreted themselves in buildings and every place. I went as far as Seventeenth street—the crowd had started, too—then the fire had not got that far. It was about the middle of the day. We stopped there, and during the time we were there undertook to prevent parties from breaking open the cars and setting them on fire, which we did succeed in stopping some. Afterwards I saw men dropping coal down below the track, and rolling barrels of oil down and setting them on fire. They were strangers to me. We couldn't get the force apparently together. If we had got them together at that time, a hundred men would have subdued the riot at that time, because it was apparently the work of boys. There were not as many men as boys, but the force had got scattered.
Q. What time did the troops come out of the round-house?
A. Near seven or eight o'clock.
Q. Not many of the crowd were there at that time?
A. No.
Q. Was any burning going on at that time?
A. I saw the first car fired to drive the Philadelphia troops out. It was a car on the Valley track. It was set on fire, and a wheel of it was chocked. They dropped other cars down against it, and they caught on fire, until it got pretty hot. But this carpenter-shop didn't take fire for some time. I helped to shove some cars away back from the entrance leading in between the round-house and the carpenter-shop. Those cars didn't catch on fire.
Q. They kept dropping those cars down all night?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they remain near the round-house?
A. They kept back towards Twenty-seventh street. They had a gun there. A man named Stewart I saw carried away from there dead. He was apparently a railroader. He had a watch with that name on it. I went to see the gun, and if they had ever fired it, it never would have hurt anybody in the round-house—if they had ever fired it. The wall is too high there.
Q. What was it that caused that crowd to be scattered? Was it fear of fire from the soldiers?
A. I reckon that was it.
Q. After the soldiers got away, did the crowd re-assemble?
A. No; not there.
Q. Were the burning cars below there?
A. Yes.
Q. They were still going on down with the burning and the pillaging?
A. Yes.
Q. They marched in regular order—the troops you saw?
A. In every good order.
Q. Suppose they had formed in line, at that time, and marched on the crowd what would have been the effect?
A. They would have got the best of the crowd because I didn't see many around there.
Q. Could they have driven the crowd away from the burning cars?
A. I think they could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. And restored order?
A. I don't know about that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who directed you to go out there first?
A. The mayor—to the best of my knowledge and belief.
Q. Did you have anybody with you?
A. No.
Q. Did you see the mayor before going?
A. I saw him that day before going.
Q. Where?
A. At the city hall, in his office.
Q. Were you on regular duty that day?
A. I was on other duty that day—I was on a little special duty that day, but was detailed and sent to where this trouble was supposed to be. I was to meet the men where I was going. About this Officer Motts. On Saturday night the mayor was in the Twelfth ward, and shortly after I went there I saw him there, and on Sunday morning. On Sunday he was on the railroad. I was standing alone, and he came to me and said to me, for God's sake get some men, you can stop them from breaking into these cars. I went towards the crowd, but there was no use for one man—but I did. They then commenced to hurl stones.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the crowd—boys?
A. Yes; and some men were among them. They were all getting pretty drunk then.
Q. You say the mayor was there attending to his duties?
A. Yes; using all the efforts he could to stop the riot; but we could not get the men together. Our force had been cut down, and it was impossible to get the men together. I asked men to stand alongside of me, but as soon as you would turn your head around again they were gone. In relation to Johnston and Bown's gun shops—I was at both places. At Johnston's, a demand was made for guns, and they gave them some muskets. I don't think that Johnston's was broke in.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They gave them?
A. That was what was said. I know I took a musket with a bayonet on from a fellow, and gave it back to the store. I was sent by the mayor's clerk to Bown's—some eight of us—but there were no uniformed men among us; we were in citizen's clothes. It was a hard matter to tell what they wanted; but eight of us went there at the time. Then this party came along Wood street, and they had a drum with them, and some of them had muskets with bayonets on, and others had revolvers, and others, what I took to be a large rammer, and they commenced ramming against the door. Officer Downey was one of the first officers to the store. I got in with him. They were then carrying out the stuff, and we took several guns from them and handed them back. They were still carrying out the stuff, and it was impossible to prevent them breaking in, because the force was not strong enough.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you armed?
A. No; no more than we usually carried—our pocket revolvers.
Q. Had you maces?
A. The men that were there were not in the habit of carrying maces. I suppose they had billies and revolvers. The proper course to save Bown's store would have been to let eight or nine men get in there and arm them, and then keep them out there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did this crowd seem to be bent on plunder?
A. Principally on plunder; I don't think that many of those guns taken out there ever went into the riot.
Q. Did they carry off pretty much everything?
A. Yes; according to the looks of the shelves and show cases. There were a couple of men arrested for stealing from that establishment, that are now doing terms in the western penitentiary.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Did you recognize them as any particular class of men?
A. I did not; their faces to me were apparently strange—they apparently looked like workingmen. A great many thieves were among them, and some, I know, have had to leave the city since, or we would have had them.
Q. You don't know where they were from?
A. Those I speak of?
Q. Yes?
A. I do; yes, from Pittsburgh.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. They have left the city entirely?
A. Yes.
Q. You were about the city a good deal attending to your duties, and you know a large part of the population?
A. I do.
Q. That crowd of men that went out there on Saturday and Sunday—was the crowd composed of men about the city?
A. No; they were pretty much all strangers; the biggest portion of them were strange men.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In your duties as a roundsman, had you noticed any unusual influx of strangers into the town?
A. I had—a great many. We had a large crowd of them, I believe from Cumberland—in the neighborhood of twenty-five or thirty—that is, one batch, and I took notice of others.
Q. Sufficient to attract the attention of the police authorities?
A. It would have attracted my attention, and I have been following up that business for my living for eight or nine years.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When did these men come into the city first?
A. The first I noticed of them was on Saturday night, when I got into the Twelfth ward. To show you that there were a great many people that didn't belong in the city, I arrested some nine or ten up there that night, and among that nine or ten, eight of them belonged to Allegheny, and their faces were all strange to me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This party from Cumberland—when did they come?
A. I can't remember.
Q. After or before the fire?
A. I can't be positive which.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. You said there was no cellar under this round-house?
A. There was no cellar, but I found a turn-table in the middle of it.
Q. How deep is a round-house generally dug out—from the top of the rails down?
A. It is on a level, but it has got to be so deep for the turn-table.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The carpenter shop was connected with it?
A. Yes.
Q. And the superintendent's office and car shops?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't they all have cellars under them?
A. The office might have had a cellar—I know the office had.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When you went out there on Thursday afternoon, what class of men were there?
A. Principally railroaders.
Q. How many were there?
A. One hundred and fifty, or more than that. I knew a great many of them.
Q. Could the trains have been run out that afternoon, if the engineers and firemen had gone?
A. Yes; they could have taken this train out I was on—I don't know how far, though. They had four policemen on each engine to protect the engineers and firemen, and from what I understood, there were men to be put along on the train to protect the brakemen.
Q. You were out again on Friday?
A. No; not until Saturday. I remained there until Sunday morning, about eight o'clock.
Q. How large a posse could you have raised in the city to go out there and restore order, if the mayor had made a call, or a demand for a posse?
A. It would have depended on how much time you would have given me.
Q. In a day?
A. I might have got in the neighborhood of one hundred men. There were but one hundred and twenty men, and some of them were there.
Q. But from any class of men in the city—if he had just called for a posse from any source—for extra men?
A. He could not have got many at that time. Wherever I went, to judge from the talk, the people were all in sympathy with the mob.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you mean the tax-payers?
A. I suppose so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. But the mayor made no call, so far as you know, for a posse?
A. I saw him trying to get men together on different occasions.
Q. But he made no official demand?
A. Not that I know of.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. He made no effort to increase his police force by swearing in extra men?
A. I believe he did as quick as he could do it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When did he do it?
A. In a couple or three days—may be two days.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. After the riot?
A. Shorty after the riot. I think he did it as quickly as he could get the men together. I think he tried all he could to prevent this riot, which he don't get the credit for here. He ordered me on Sunday morning to go to the fire department, about one o'clock, and I went in search of the chief, in company with another officer, Motts. He did the talking. I didn't talk to him myself. We went to look for the chief, and could not find him. We went down to Twenty-first street and Penn street, and we saw a foreman there—I believe, in fact, several of the fire department were there, and we requested them to come and play on the fire, that the mayor had sufficient force, and that he would protect them, and the answer I don't remember, but I know they didn't come up and play on the fire. They were not going to run the danger.
Q. What firemen did you see?
A. Motts can tell you. Several were standing there.
Q. What ones were standing there?
A. Different ones. A man named Kennedy was there, and one named Miller.
Q. Do you know where those two men are now?
A. I suppose they are still on the fire department. The mayor at that time had dispatched from the Twelfth ward station for police, and had got, I guess, sixty or may be more. I know that many, for I knew the lieutenant that came up.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Were the round-house and those shops very hot when you went in?
A. No; No cars were burning there yet.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Was the fire department near there—some of them?
A. Yes; close up.
Q. If they had played on the burning cars could they have prevented those buildings from getting on fire?
A. I think they could have prevented it.
Q. Were you ready to give protection then?
A. The mayor was there, and his force, and those were the orders.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When you went inside of the round-house were the doors still intact.
A. They were. I could not see any fire about them.
Q. How many engines were in there at that time?
A. I can't be certain. A number were in there at that time—a great many. They were shoved in the stalls. There would, apparently, be one in each.
Q. You think you examined those doors, do you?
A. I was close to the doors, and if there had been any fire—in case of a fire I would have seen it.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Was the upper round-house burning then?
A. I believe it was pretty much burned at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where did the troops come out of the round-house?
A. I saw a portion of them come out of the entrance on Twenty-sixth street, and I think a portion of them came out of the rear end of the carpenter shop. I saw some twenty-five or thirty come out.
Thomas Hastings, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your business?
A. I not doing anything at present.
Q. What were you doing in July last?
A. I was a police officer.
Q. What connection had you with the efforts to suppress the riot?
A. I did everything, so far as I could, at that time. I didn't know much about it until Saturday evening. Our time for going on duty was eight o'clock in the evening. I went on at seven o'clock, and had orders from the lieutenant to go down and notify each tavern-keeper to close his saloon, at the request of the mayor. I did so, and we were distributed in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street. There was a large crowd at Twenty-eighth street and Twenty-sixth street, and the crowd increased up to eleven o'clock.
Q. What time did you receive orders to close the saloons?
A. About seven o'clock in the evening.
Q. In the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?
A. All along Penn street. I went up about eleven o'clock, and stayed looking around for a while at Twenty-eighth street, and then came down as far as Twenty-sixth street, and went back again, and just as I got at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets I saw the fire, and I ran up Liberty street and saw a car of oil. I then ran down and pulled the alarm, and just as I pulled the alarm I was thrown out in the street. Just then the mayor passed me, and asked me what the car was, and I told him it was a car of oil. He asked me if I pulled the alarm, and I said yes. I didn't see any engine coming. I went down then to the Twelfth ward station-house, and I asked the captain if he had pulled the alarm, and he said he had tried to, but couldn't. I then went down a little piece, and saw an engine and the Independence hose carriage standing at Twenty-fourth or Twenty-fifth street. Somebody made a remark that they would not let them come up any further—that they had threatened to shoot them. I stayed around there all that night, and on Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left——
Q. Did you see the Philadelphia troops come out of the round-house?
A. I saw what they called the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Where did they come out?
A. They were in this round-house and in the carpenter shop. They appeared to come out of the west end of the carpenter shop.
Q. On to what street?
A. On to Liberty, and then down Twenty-fifth street to Penn. Some were deployed as skirmishers, at the head of the column. They appeared to be pretty well frightened.
Q. Were they marching in good order?
A. Yes; but they appeared to be pretty well scared.
Q. They marched regularly, did they?
A. Yes.
Q. Was any attack made on them?
A. Not to my knowledge—so far as I saw. I only stayed a few minutes, and went over into the round-house and carpenter shop. I went into, I believe, where D. O. Shater had his office, on the east end of the round-house. I went in there, and went in through the round-house into the carpenter shop.
Q. Were you on duty during the week prior to the riot?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you learn of any arrangement among the men for the strike?
A. I knew nothing of it until I got out of bed on Thursday, that was the first I heard of it.
Q. What time did you get up?
A. I generally got up about four or five o'clock.
Q. What did you learn then?
A. I learned that there was a strike, or that there was going to be a strike.
Q. Who informed you?
A. I don't remember. Some railroad man.
Q. What did he say about it?
A. That there had been a strike, or was going to be a strike.
Q. You knew of no pre-arranged plan for a strike?
A. No.
Q. Had you noticed any influx of strangers into the city prior to that time?
A. I had noticed a great many.
Q. What class of men?
A. They appeared to be tramps—fellows hunting for work, but who didn't want it.
Q. Any more than there had been previously?
A. Yes; that week there had been a great many traveling back and forward on the streets.
Q. A great many all the time are traveling, are they not?
A. Not as many as that week, I don't think.
Q. Did you have any conversation with those tramps?
A. No.
Q. What do you do with the tramps who come into the city here?
A. We don't do anything at present.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What was the first day you noticed more tramps than usual?
A. It appeared to be the beginning of the week of the riot—for six or eight days previous.
Q. You noticed it before the strike commenced?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You did not do anything with those tramps who gathered and collected?
A. We had not for some time.
Q. You allowed them to come in and go away when they choose?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Where had you noticed this extra influx of tramps?
A. I had noticed it on Penn street, particularly. A great many were going in and out. They would ask me where there was a place to stay over night, or if they could stay at the station-house, and I always directed them to the Young Men's Home.
Q. Did they come there in larger numbers than usual—that is, in larger crowds than six or eight or ten?
A. Sometimes I would see one or two, and then six, and they increased to as high as eight in a party.
Q. In a party?
A. In a bunch.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How soon were you up to the round-house after the troops vacated it?
A. In eight or ten minutes.
Q. Did you go through the round-house or the shops?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of those buildings on fire?
A. The machine shop was on fire—thirty or forty feet on the east side—that is, sixty feet from the east end of the round-house.
Q. Do you know anything about any oil cars that were dropped down on the Pennsylvania railroad towards the round-house?
A. I know that oil cars were dropped down there.
Q. At what time?
A. They were afire when I saw them. I don't know how close to the round-house they went.
Q. How were they stopped?
A. I think they were bumped against other cars.
Q. You don't know of any obstructions placed on the tracks that prevented them from running clear to the round house?
A. No.
Q. Was there much heat in the round-house when you got there, soon after the troops left?
A. The machine shop was on fire. How long it had been burning before, I cannot say. It was burning when I went into D. O. Shafer's office.
Q. Had any of the troops been in this machine shop?
A. I can't say; some had been shooting out of the bell tower that night.
Q. Of the machine shop?
A. Yes, sir; the round-house was not on fire, nor the carpenter shop.
Q. What has been your avocation for the last eight or ten years?
A. I have been a railroad man up to within three years.
Q. Have you ever been a conductor on passenger trains?
A. No.
Q. On freight trains?
A. I have been a conductor on freight.
Q. Had you any conversation with freight conductors up to the time of the riot, or before that time in relation to any contemplated strike?
A. No.
Q. Or with any men belonging to the Trainmen's Union?
A. No; I never took any stock in that union.
Q. Did you see the troops retiring from the round-house?
A. Not until they came up on Penn street.
Q. Did you see them fired at?
A. Not on Penn street. I saw a man who is in jail now, firing from the corner of Twenty-sixth and Penn streets.
Q. At the troops?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any whisky running into any of those buildings on fire?
A. I saw two cars of high wines on fire. They had stopped them in front of the superintendent's office, and they were throwing water out of the windows to put the fire out. When I went up there I saw it was high wines.
Q. Could that have run into the cellar of the buildings or the superintendent's office?
A. It would have taken a good bit, for the stone sill was eight or ten inches from the ground, and it would take a great deal to run in there, though a barrel might have rolled in through the window.
Q. Where is the battery room under the superintendent's office?
A. It is in the west corner of the building—in the cellar.
Q. Is it below the grade of the Allegheny Valley track?
A. I am not sure. Yes; it is below, the bottom part of it, but along the window sill, I think, it is five or six inches, may be more.
Q. It is below the grade of the railroad track?
A. The inside of it is, but the outside is about six or eight inches above the ground. I would have to send up to be sure about it.
William Coats, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you connected with the fire department of the city of Pittsburgh last July?
A. I am one of the fire commissioners of the city of Pittsburgh.
Q. State the organization of that department last July?
A. We had eleven steam fire engine companies and two hose companies and three trucks in the city of Pittsburgh last July, and an average of about seven men to a company. But we didn't have a full force on. Our appropriations ran short, and we were compelled to put off some twenty-two men just previous to the riot.
Q. How many men had you at that time?
A. One hundred and four, telegraph operators and all—a working force of about ninety-eight men.
Q. They are a paid force, are they?
A. Yes.
Q. State what aid they rendered in putting out the fire?
A. The first alarm, the night of the riot, occurred on the 21st of July, I think—I am not positive—and was sent in about fifteen minutes after ten o'clock. I was then at engine house No. 7, on Penn avenue, near the corner of Twenty-third street. There were three companies that answered that alarm, and one hose company and one truck. The department was stopped on the street, between Twenty-third and Twenty-eighth street. The crowd caught the horses of No. 7 engine, and drew the fire out of the engine, and made the men pull into the sidewalk. The department did no service on Saturday night, but they went into service when the Philadelphia troops vacated the round-house, on Sunday morning at seven o'clock. Our men went there then; and, if you will allow me, I will tell you why they did not go into service before.
Q. We want to know it?
A. The people would not allow them to.
Q. That is the mob?
A. Yes; but we considered them in service from the time the alarm struck, though they didn't throw any water. We couldn't get to the round-house building, or to where the fire started, because the mob stopped us. They made the assistant chief engineer get out of his buggy. I sent off the second signal myself from No. 7 engine house when they commenced to fire cars down about Twentieth street. In the meantime, an alarm came in from East Liberty, and we thought it was the cattle yards there. From the corner of Twenty-second and Liberty streets, we laid a line of hose, but they commenced to cut it as soon as we laid it, and they made us take it up again. A fellow put a pistol to my ear and said, take that up.
Q. Did you know the fellow who did that?
A. No. I have not seen him since. We reeled the hose up. There was no use in getting it out. We could only get into service when the Philadelphia troops came out of the round-house on Sunday morning.
Q. What kind of service did you render during the day?
A. We saved this town from burning down. I don't suppose that ever a body of men worked harder than the Pittsburgh fire department. We did not have a man who was not at his post from ten o'clock on Saturday night until eight o'clock on Monday morning. It was the only body of men in Pittsburgh organized.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were ready to do their duty?
A. They did their duty.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say they saved the city? How?
A. In the first place, when we went into service, opposite the round-house or the machine-shops, there were a lot of frames or tenement houses that were on fire. Well, we put out this fire, and we kept on following the fire down Liberty street, and kept the buildings wetted down. The fire was very intense—very hot, and it was a continual fight with fire all the way down Liberty street.
Q. The crowd of rioters and pillagers were ahead of you?
A. Sometimes they were ahead, and sometimes along with us; sometimes the rioters kept ahead of the fire, and sometimes they were among us.
Q. They didn't break open the cars and pillage them until the fire started along?
A. There were places on Liberty street where no man could have stood, even to wet the houses down, and where they couldn't have pillaged, because it was too hot, and occasionally along Liberty street there were a lot of coal dumps and some oil bins, and where that occurred the heat was very intense. We had to keep things wetted all the time. Along there the pillagers would sometimes be very plenty.
Q. I suppose all the private property burned caught from the heat of the railroad cars?
A. Yes; the only private property that was burned was on Washington street.
Q. Did those houses catch fire, or were they set on fire?
A. They caught from the Union depot.
Q. You saved the private property here by wetting down the buildings?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive any protection from the police force?
A. No; we did not.
Q. At any time?
A. No; not to my knowledge.
Q. You were with the department?
A. I was.
Q. At any time did you receive any protection from the police?
A. No.
Q. If you had been protected by the police, could you have cut the fire and stopped it?
A. We could, at any place.
Q. How many men would it have taken to protect you?
A. I think twenty-five or fifty men, at the outside, could have stopped that burning on Sunday morning. I say that, because there could have been no mistakes. Because, if they had shot some of them down, they could not have made any mistakes. They had no business there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you see the mayor there during the day?
A. I saw the mayor there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was the mayor making any effort to keep back the crowd?
A. I did not see any force of policemen that day, but the mayor appeared to be moving up and down Liberty street. I saw him talking to the rioters.
By Mr. Means:
Q. After the Philadelphia troops left the round-house, how long was it before it was on fire?
A. It was, I think, on fire when they left, because we went up there right away.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say that the round-house was on fire, but we have evidence that it was not?
A. The offices that stood between were certainly on fire, because I worked that stream myself, and the heat got so intense at one time, that we had to move the engine away. The round-house could not help being on fire, for that oil sent down would have put anything on fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were the burning cars around there?
A. They had been sending down the burning cars sometime before.
Q. Then it was afire when they came out?
A. As soon as the troops came out, the chief engineer ordered some apparatus there, and we went there at once. There was almost an entire square on Liberty street, all lumber yards and frame shanties, on fire. And this machine shop was on fire. I am not positive about the two round-houses at that time. I was working there myself.
Q. How many men, do you judge, were engaged in this burning?
A. I cannot tell you that—a great many.
Q. Actively engaged—that is, I want to distinguish between the persons standing around in crowds on the pavements looking on, and the parties actively engaged in the burning?
A. When I was down on Liberty street, there appeared to be a great many people on the railroad track. Of course, they were pillaging then—it was plain—any person could see it. Every now and then you could see the flames bursting out from the cars.
Q. Did you see this crowd—was it an organized effort to follow up the burning—did it seem to be followed systematically?
A. Yes; I think it was organized.
Q. Can you form any idea as to how many were actively engaged?
A. I cannot. I was not on the railroad track that day. Men and women and everything else were on the railroad track.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Behind the fire?
A. Yes; but they kept in front, too.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were pillaging and carrying the things away?
A. Yes; I got down to Eleventh street, and went to the Pan-Handle railroad yard, and they were breaking the cars open and setting the things on fire. I said to them, don't do it, or you will set the city on fire, and they said they did not care a damn if they did.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you know those men?
A. No; I never saw them before or since. On Saturday evening I was sitting in front of the engine house, and some men came up in front and said, "If there is a fire to-night, I suppose you will turn out." I said, "Certainly," when he said, "If you turn out there will be trouble. We will cut your hose and smash your apparatus."
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did he talk as if he came to warn you for that purpose?
A. Yes; he talked as if he came for the purpose of letting us know that. There was a great deal of feeling that night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have none of your engines in service before the troops left?
A. No.
Q. You played on neither private property nor railroad property?
A. No.
Q. Were the crowd generally disorderly?
A. Yes.
Q. Making threats?
A. O, yes; that they would kill the firemen, and one thing and another?
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did you see a proclamation or any official document of the mayor of the city of Pittsburgh ordering the rum shops and drinking saloons to be closed on Saturday or Sunday?
A. I do not know of seeing it. If a proclamation was issued on Saturday, I was not in the city on Saturday afternoon.
Q. Or any proclamation ordering the crowd to disperse?
A. I did not.
Q. No proclamation calling for a police force?
A. No.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the shooting on Saturday night?
A. No; what occurred in the evening I didn't see. I was up there in the morning, but out of the city in the afternoon.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. If a determined effort had been made on Thursday by the mayor with the police force that he had at hand, could he have dispersed the crowd?