Another member, to wit, John Rutledge, from South Carolina, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.
Mr. Randolph reported a "bill concerning the library for the use of both Houses of Congress;" which, after being twice read, was committed to a Committee of the whole House: Mr. Rutledge in the chair.
The bill provided that the members of both Houses, the President and Vice President of the United States, and the Judges of the Supreme Court, should have liberty to take any book from the library to read.
Mr. Sprigg moved, to add the Judges of the District of Columbia. He was supported in argument by Mr. Dennis, upon the ground of the importance of the causes which this especial district would present, and the great expense and extreme scarcity of some most valuable and necessary law books.
Mr. Bayard objected to the motion, because he could discover no reason for distinguishing the judges of the district from others; but Judges of the Supreme Court being far from their libraries, required such references. He hoped the Congressional Library would never be subjected to the abuse which books used in courts of justice were too liable to.
The motion was not agreed to.
Some observations were made as to the time which the library was to remain open.
Mr. Griswold moved to confine it to the time of the session of Congress.
It was carried, with an exception moved by Mr. Southard, in favor of the Judges of the Supreme Court, whose sessions do not accord with those of Congress.
A blank was left as to the sum to be appropriated, in addition to the remaining part of the five thousand dollars heretofore appropriated, for the purchase of books.
On the Chairman's asking the sum with which to fill the blank, Mr. Randolph moved to strike out the sections, observing that, of that sum, not more than $2,200 had been used, and $2,800 remained unexpended. He entertained no doubt but Congress would aid the institution by every timely grant.
Mr. Davis moved the appointment of a committee to inquire into the expediency of repealing the acts imposing duties on stills and distilled spirits, on refined sugars, on sales at auction, and on pleasure carriages.
Mr. Davis said his object, in making this motion, was, that the House should accomplish that directly, which had been this session attempted in so circuitous a way as to embarrass and delay its proceedings. He saw no reason for going into a Committee of the Whole, in order to arrive at decisions that might better be made directly by the House itself.
On this motion a debate of considerable length ensued, in which, on the one side, the reference to a select committee, and on the other a reference to a Committee of the whole House was advocated. No decision was had, and of course the motion of Mr. D. was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. Bayard, during the course of the debate—in allusion to the adoption yesterday of the resolution of Mr. Randolph for reducing the Military Establishment, which he thought premature, not considering the House as sufficiently acquainted with the details of the subject, to act upon it—said, that if gentlemen were for reducing the Army in whatever degree, or for abandoning it altogether, he should go with them. He would, on such occasion, be governed by the same principles which had hitherto guided him. He had heretofore been disposed to repose a liberal confidence in the Executive of the United States; and when an increase of our military force had been recommended by the President, he had invariably been for it; much more would he be disposed, when a reduction was recommended from the same quarter, to sanction it by his vote. With the Executive rested the responsibility of the exterior defence of the nation; and if the Executive was of opinion that the nation was secure with a force of three, two, or one thousand, or without even a single man, he would concur with him in giving effect to such a conviction.
Mr. Randolph was called up by these remarks. He had little thought that his motion, agreed to yesterday sub silentio, and without the least hesitation, would have been made the topic of such animated animadversion as he had heard to-day. He would tell the gentleman from Delaware, that his motion had neither been immature in substance, nor premature as to time. It would be recollected, that previous to its adoption, the Secretary of War had been called upon to furnish information to the House. He had furnished information, to his mind completely satisfactory. He had stated the establishment to be five thousand men; and his opinion that all the garrisons required only three thousand men. Could it, then, with any reason be called premature to act upon such information? If the gentleman from Delaware, or other gentlemen thought so, why not combat a decision at the time? Did they imagine that, without the expression of a murmur by them, the mover would himself rise and oppose his own motion?
As to the delay which had been noticed, as having taken place in the transaction of business, it was not to be ascribed to any particular mode of procedure; but to the unusual languor of the season; to the absence of several members of great weight; to the augmentation of new members not yet fully acquainted with the forms of business, and to the unusual mass of information presented to the House, which enlarged the field of action, and to the delays of printing arising from the unusual quantity of matter submitted.
Mr. Bayard moved that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, for the purpose of enabling him to offer a resolution to the following effect:
"Resolved, That the Committee of Ways and Means be instructed to inquire into the expediency of repealing the laws laying duties on stills and distilled spirits, on refined sugar, on sales at auction, on pleasurable carriages, on stamps, and on postage of letters."
Mr. Bayard made this motion for the purpose of placing the important subject contemplated by it in a train for decision. He thought it full time to commence our proceedings upon it; and in his opinion, it was fit that the consideration of the subject, generally, should go before the Committee of Ways and Means. The subject was so important as to strike at the vital principles of our revenue. The repeal of the internal taxes involved a reduction of six hundred thousand dollars in our receipts. The propriety of such a reduction did not constitute a distinct subject for consideration, but depended upon the deductions made on a comprehensive view of our finances, which could only be taken by the Committee of Ways and Means, to whom was committed generally whatever regarded revenue.
If the minds of gentlemen, said Mr. B., were made up to abolish all the internal taxes, it must be to them perfectly immaterial to what committee a reference was made. He knew the flattering prospects held out by the President, and he hoped they would all be verified. But his own mind was not made up, nor did he know that the minds of other gentlemen were made up on the propriety of dispensing with these taxes. He was led to this inference by observing no official notice to such effect in the communications made by the Secretary of the Treasury. On the contrary, the Secretary had so made his calculations, predicated as they were upon the continuance of these taxes, that his calculations would be greatly deranged by dispensing with them. Mr. B. knew not that we were prepared to leap this precipice. If the public burdens could be reduced, he would be delighted with the act of reduction. Yet still, if the sum of six hundred thousand dollars, derived from these taxes, could be dispensed with, doubts might be entertained whether the internal taxes were those which should be first either reduced or abolished. He held it to be a correct principle, that taxation should be equal, and that no one class of citizens should be burdened to the exemption of all other classes. From a slight consideration of the subject, he had found no other way of enabling our brethren to the westward to participate in the public burdens than by affording them an opportunity of paying their portion of internal revenue. It might appear, on investigation, that more substantial relief would be afforded to the various descriptions of our citizens, by continuing the internal taxes, and reducing those on imports; and if it should be thought proper to diminish the burden imposed on our western citizens, he would ask whether that effect would not be more substantially accomplished by reducing the tax upon salt? It would be recollected that great opposition had been made to the imposition of this tax, which had been denominated oppressive, as it fell upon an article of necessity.
Attention ought, also, to be paid to the liability of several articles to be smuggled, the only mode of preventing which was well known to be a reduction of the duties.
Mr. B. stated these circumstances, not as evidences of having matured his own ideas; but to show the necessity of referring the subject to a committee, whose special duty it was to take a general view of the resources and expenses of the nation, and who, therefore, in the present stage of the session, were alone in a situation to make the requisite inquiry.
Mr. Eustis said that the reasons offered by the gentleman from Delaware were with him conclusive that this was not the proper time for considering the subject. Until we know the reductions in the expenditures of the Government that are to be made, it is impossible that we can say how far it will be expedient to reduce or abolish our taxes. We had not determined to what extent the Army or the Navy should be reduced, nor had we come to any ultimate decision on any reduction whatever. For these reasons he must oppose a decision at this time upon the subject, whether that decision was in this or any other shape.
Mr. Bacon concurred with Mr. Eustis in considering any decision as at present premature.
Mr. Rutledge viewed the subject as of great importance. He could not figure to his imagination one likely to occur this session of equal importance. The President contemplated a repeal of all the internal revenues, and the imposition of all taxes upon imported articles. The Secretary of the Treasury appears, by implication, to be of a different opinion, and contemplates a continuance of these duties. What is the object of the gentleman from Delaware? Why, delay; time for consideration, by reference of the subject to a committee most competent to inquire. As to the public burdens, every member on the floor had a common feeling. We do not wish to lay unnecessary taxes. But when taxes are laid, when they are uncomplained of, it was indeed deeply interesting without consideration to decide on their abolition. Mr. R. said, for himself, he should be embarrassed by being forced into an immediate decision. We want information before we are called upon to decide. The motion seeks that information. It sends the business to the Committee of Ways and Means, to whom it belongs of right. It is their duty to consider it, for whatever relates to revenue must go to them. Gentlemen cannot say that they are surprised. By the resolution, they are not called upon to decide upon the subject; they are only called upon to place it in a train for decision.
Mr. Macon hoped the business would be taken up, and the sooner it was done, the better. It was certainly of great importance, and the earlier the House proceeded to consider it, the sooner would they be prepared for deciding upon it. If the vote of reference was final, the arguments of the gentleman from Massachusetts would apply. But this was not the case.
It had been said that the President had declared his opinion that we can dispense with these taxes. The statement was not correct. His opinion was contingent. He had said, we may dispense with these taxes in case we proportionably reduce the expenses.
As to the remarks made respecting the different opinions of the President and Secretary of the Treasury, they likewise were erroneous. Distinct views were taken by each. The President, contemplating a reduction in the expenses, intimates the expediency of repealing the internal taxes; whereas the Secretary of the Treasury, taking things as they are, states the effects of their continuance. From these circumstances, no diversity of opinion could be inferred.
Mr. M. concluded by expressing a hope that the expenses of the Government would be reduced, that the internal taxes would be taken off, and that immediate measures would be pursued for preparing the House for a final decision.
Mr. Eustis was alike hostile to the present motion and to that which had been made by the gentleman from Kentucky, who had yesterday introduced the subject. He had heard the motion with a sensation of uncommon surprise; for he was of opinion that the public attention should not be attracted, or the public sensation excited, till we should be able to determine the course proper to be pursued. He felt himself unprepared to decide, and believed other gentlemen were equally unprepared. He hoped that he cherished a suitable respect for the President of the United States, though he did not know that he would go so far as the gentleman from Delaware, and disband a whole army at his word.
The wisest course was to wait until information was obtained. This would in fact be gaining time. If the Committee of Ways and Means were to consider the subject, it must be under the present state of things. They could not take for granted what might or might not be done by Congress; and before Congress could decide, they must have information which they do not yet possess. He who, under present circumstance, attempted to say to what length our retrenchments would go, and what taxes we could spare, might indeed be called a prophet.
We ought not, said Mr. E., to stir the public sensibility improperly or prematurely. By exciting that sensibility before we had determined how to act in future, impressions may be raised which we shall not be able to satisfy.
Mr. Smilie concurred in opinion with Mr. E., and moved, as the best mode of disposing of the subject, that the committee rise.
Mr. Griswold declared himself against delay. He knew not why the House were not prepared to decide immediately. The President had introduced the subject, and if any sensibility had been excited, it must be ascribed to him, and not to us. Nor did he think that any ill effects would flow from attracting the public attention. The President did not know, when he addressed us, that we would be for a reduction of the expenses; yet, thinking as he did, it was highly proper in him to give his opinion to the House. So proposed to us, it would exhibit a want of respect to that Magistrate not to take it up immediately. Not to act upon it promptly would be subversive of the national tranquillity after the attention of the public had been directed to it.
Mr. Smilie had thought the gentleman from Connecticut was too well acquainted with the proceedings of that House to say that the Committee of Ways and Means were prepared to act upon this subject. Did they know how far we would reduce the Army, the Navy, or the Judiciary?
Mr. Varnum hoped the committee would rise. Any disposition of the subject was at present premature. As to the calculations of the Secretary alluded to, they were made from the existing revenue, and all his deductions were made therefrom. The President had taken another view of the subject. Contemplating the probability of a reduction in our expenses, he had stated that, in such event, we could dispense with the internal taxes. But whether the contemplated reduction could be made, the House were not prepared to say. Of one thing he was sure, that not a single necessary tax would be abandoned.
Mr. Dana said, that more than three weeks have elapsed since the President's communication has been laid before us, and, during that time, a sense of decorum has not induced us to take up one of the most important parts of it. He certainly agreed with gentlemen that we ought to take up the subject and decide for ourselves. If we concur with the President, we shall repeal the laws; if we do not concur, we may, it is true, risk our popularity by opposing so favorite a measure with the people. But placed as we shall be between popularity on the one hand, and duty on the other, as honest men we should do our duty. But certainly it is our duty now to examine the subject. Grant that the reduction in our expenses may extend to a million, though scarcely half that sum could be hoped for; still the question remains what taxes shall be diminished. He could not, for his part, feel all that horror of public sensibility that had been portrayed by the gentleman from Massachusetts. What have we to fear, suppose we interfere with that sensibility? If we do so in the discharge of our duty, he was perfectly willing it should be excited; nay, it would be useful to the people themselves.
Mr. Eustis was perfectly ready to meet the public sensibility, whether for or against us. We had already tried it both ways. He was much pleased with the respect professed by gentlemen for the public sensibility, and also for the communications of the President. But there were parts of those communications, which, notwithstanding the impatience of gentlemen, they would not be displeased at laying unacted upon, not merely three weeks, but three months.
Mr. Bayard did not expect an opposition to his motion from the quarter from which it came; for he had a right to expect as much deference to the President from the opposite, as from his own side. For his part he felt no terrors at meeting the whole, or any part of the President's communications. Whatever he recommended that was right, he would vote for, and whatever was wrong, he would oppose. Though his former habits had led him to cherish a respect for the President, of which he did not repent, yet he felt no servility that would lead him to repress an expression of his sentiments.
A gentleman from Pennsylvania had talked about reducing the Army, the Navy, and the Judiciary. But there were other expenses which the gentleman might have dwelt on. Why silent on the Legislature? Let us reduce the length of our sessions. It did not appear consistent in that gentleman to strike at the Judiciary, and other departments, and leave untouched whatever affected himself.
Mr. Randolph did not desire to occupy much of the time of the committee, as he thought it immaterial whether the committee rise or not. But he wished, for the information, and perhaps for the satisfaction, of the gentleman from Massachusetts, to state that, among other members, he was one who had not decided whether Government could dispense with the internal taxes. He hoped, and was inclined to believe, that they might be dispensed with. The Secretary of the Treasury had expressly stated that part of his report was speculative, viz: that part which inferred the effects of peace. The correctness of the opinion of the Secretary on this point must decide the House as to the propriety of giving up these taxes. He was one who, though he did not think a state of peace would materially affect the revenue, had not decided whether a reduction of the public impositions in this or that species of revenue should be made. He noticed these things, to prevent an impression being made on the public mind that the House were for precipitating a decision. As to the public sensation, he felt no alarm. He knew that our measures must depend upon the reductions we shall make.
Mr. R., for these reasons, was against any decision now; and had the gentleman from Kentucky pressed his motion yesterday, he was prepared to move a postponement of it. In the mean time, there were other important topics involved in the Message that might be referred and acted upon.
Mr. Dana presumed that the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts had done him the honor of alluding to him in his remarks. He was not very solicitous that the subject should be inquired into, but since it was brought up, he must say that nothing short of the talents of the honorable gentleman could furnish a semblance of reason for not going immediately into the inquiry. That gentleman errs egregiously, if he imagines that I can dread an investigation of any point involved in the President's Message. He would add, that whatever his particular opinion might be of the person to whom had been confided the Government of the nation, it became him only to see in him the First Magistrate of the country, and to treat him with correspondent respect, and to see in what he did, not the man, but the measure.
The question was then taken on the committee rising, and lost—yeas 29, nays 48.
The reference to the Committee of Ways and Means was then carried, both in committee and in the House, without a division.
The House adjourned till Monday.
William Barry Grove, from North Carolina, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.
Ordered, That Mr. Milledge be appointed to the Committee of Ways and Means, in the room of Mr. Dickson, who is sick and unable to attend.
Mr. Randolph moved that the House should go into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, with the view of submitting three resolutions to the committee, viz:
"Resolved, That it is expedient to inquire whether any, and what, alterations should be made in the Judicial Establishment of the United States.
"Resolved, That provision ought to be made for the impartial selection of juries.
"Resolved, That it is expedient to inquire whether any, and what, reductions can be made in the civil expenses of the Government of the United States."
The House accordingly went into committee.
Mr. Bayard presumed an agreement to these resolutions would, in their present shape, meet with no opposition. It was impossible to determine what shape they would ultimately assume. The Judiciary system was doubtless susceptible of amendment, and if any proper amendments should be proposed, he would concur in their adoption. With respect to the second resolution, though he did not know that there was any necessity for altering the mode at present practised of selecting juries, not having heard of any complaints under it, yet, as the resolution only led to an inquiry into the subject, he would not object.
With regard to the last resolution, it was one in which we must all concur. The object, if attainable, would be extremely grateful to all of us.
The three resolutions were agreed to without a division. The committee then rose, and reported them to the House.
On the report being taken up, Mr. Randolph moved that the consideration of the two first resolutions be postponed till the third Monday of January.
Mr. Bayard hoped the motion for postponement would not prevail. The propositions were abstract ones, leading to inquiry, and the sooner they were acted upon, the better. The mode pursued by the gentleman from Virginia, if his simple object was to give notice, was the least happy that he could have devised, for it gave to gentlemen no opportunity to prepare themselves, as they were totally unacquainted, in the present stage of the business, as to what would be the alterations proposed. If a committee were now appointed, they would have time to deliberate on a subject of the utmost importance—one so complicated as to require great attention. When their report was made, he would be one of those who would ask from the candor of the House time to consider it.
Mr. Randolph said, he was at all times willing to accommodate gentlemen of every political description on proper occasions. Apprehending that his resolutions, if taken up in the House, would give rise to discussion, he had moved for their postponement, from a wish not to interfere with the desire of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, and other gentlemen, to act on the apportionment bill. As his motion for postponement appeared likely to be itself productive of discussion, by which the time of the House would be exhausted, and the means he used defeat the end he had in view, he would withdraw his motion.
The House then agreed to the resolutions without a division.
Mr. Randolph moved the reference of the two first resolutions to the same committee.
He said, in reply to the gentleman from Delaware, that he made the motion respecting juries not because any complaint did at present exist of the exercise of the powers under which jurors were selected, but because they had not long since existed, and because in similar circumstances they might again exist. He was glad the gentleman from Delaware had no reason to complain of their present abuse. But this was no security against the future.
Mr. Bayard said, that he had spoken as he had done, not for the purpose of expressing any opinion that any abuse respecting juries had been recently removed under the present state of things; but to state that he had never heard of any complaints on this subject in the part of the Union from which he came; and he had particularly alluded to the mode of designating jurors in his State, which was by ballot. But if there were complaints in other parts of the Union, he would co-operate in any means that could be devised for removing them.
Mr. Smilie said, that since the gentleman from Delaware had introduced the subject, and had declared that no complaints existed, he would say that complaints had existed, that just grounds for them existed, and that they had been expressed in the loudest tone. And he would appeal to the gentleman from Delaware whether any man could be safe who was at the mercy of a marshal, who was the mere creature of the President.
Mr. Bayard.—While man continues as he is, there will be complaints on this subject. We are divided into parties. The people, as well as the President, must belong to one side or the other; and whether we have sheriffs chosen by the people, or marshals appointed by the President, the evil will still exist. He had no objection, if it were the wish of gentlemen, that the marshals should be appointed by the people; though we know that the people are as apt, nay more apt, to be infected with violent political feelings, than an Executive officer.
Mr. Randolph said, that without desiring to exhaust the time of the House on a point where there was no difference of opinion, he could not permit the observation of the gentleman from Delaware to pass unnoticed; that an officer, holding a lucrative office, appointed by the President, and dependent upon his will, is as independent as a sheriff, elected in some States annually by the people, and in other States appointed in a manner calculated to ensure his independence. He would instance the State of Virginia, in which the sheriffs were nominated by the justices of the county courts, who, it was understood, were to hold the office of sheriff in rotation. Will the gentleman say that these men, who are independent of the pleasure of any man, are liable to be made the same tools, with officers who hold their appointments at the absolute will of one man?
Mr. R. would further say, that the remark of the gentleman from Delaware, that the existence of no complaints had ever come to his ears, had excited his extreme astonishment. In North Carolina, he believed, no legal jury had been selected since the establishment of the Federal Government. In that State, in the State courts, all juries are first selected in the inferior courts, and then sent to the superior courts. He would ask, how, under these circumstances, a jury could be struck in a federal court in that State agreeably to law? In Virginia and Pennsylvania, the independence of sheriffs is secured; therefore, no restrictions are imposed upon them in selecting juries; whereas, in the federal courts the marshal is the abject creature of the Executive—and yet we are told the security is the same! Mr. R. did not wish to consume the time of the House; but when views are taken by gentlemen calculated, either as to fact or sentiment, to lead the public mind astray, if other gentlemen did not, he would invariably notice them.
Mr. Bayard desired to explain. He had not meant to contend that sheriffs chosen for three years by the people were as dependent as similar officers appointed by the President. He had alluded to the effects which flowed from a marked division of parties. We were in all events subject to that evil. It was a truth that men deeply infected with party were more apt to be chosen by the people than by an Executive magistrate; because the people felt more strongly a degree of political fanaticism.
After some further debate, it was determined to refer the two first resolutions to a committee of seven, and the last to a committee of five members.
Ordered, That Mr. Nicholson, Mr. John Taliaferro, Jr., Mr. Goddard, Mr. Rutledge, Mr. Israel Smith, Mr. Henderson, and Mr. Bailey, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the first and second resolutions.
Ordered, That Mr. Bacon, Mr. Grove, Mr. Elmendorph, Mr. Hemphill, and Mr. Abram Trigg, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the third resolution.
On the question being taken for striking out thirty-three, it was lost—yeas 42, nays 48.
Mr. Dennis moved to strike out eight, the number of Representatives allotted to Maryland, and insert nine; which amendment had been rendered necessary by the supplementary return received from Maryland.
On this motion a very desultory debate took place, which was twice interrupted by motions for the committee to rise, which were both lost.
Much personal recrimination, chiefly on the charge of delay on the one side, and precipitation on the other, was exchanged.
The amendment was at last agreed to—yeas 57.
The committee then rose and reported the bill as amended.
The House immediately took up the report of the committee, agreed to the amendments, and ordered the bill to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.
The House went into Committee of the Whole on the standing rules of the House.
Mr. Leib moved the addition of the following rule:
"The Speaker shall assign such places to the stenographers on the floor, as shall not interfere with the convenience of the House."
Mr. Leib prefaced his motion, by observing that, in the standing rules proposed, no provision appeared to be made for the admission of stenographers. They had heretofore been subject to the will of the Speaker. However great his respect for the present Speaker, he was of opinion, that they should not depend for their accommodation upon the will of any man; and he thought it became the House, on this occasion, to establish a precedent which would place those who took the debates above the caprice of any individual.
Mr. Huger moved to amend the motion so as to read as follows;
"Stenographers shall be admitted, and the Speaker shall assign to them such places on the floor as shall not interfere with the convenience of the House."
Mr. Leib agreed to this modification.
The motion was opposed by Mr. Griswold, Mr. Rutledge, Mr. Varnum, Mr. Hemphill, Mr. T. Morris, Mr. Eustis, Mr. Dana, Mr. Elmer, and Mr. Goddard; and supported by Mr. Leib, Mr. S. Smith, Mr. Nicholson, Mr. Claiborne, Mr. Smilie, Mr. Holland, and Mr. Sprigg.
Mr. Huger opposed the original motion of Mr. Leib, but supported the motion, as amended by himself.
The opponents of the motion declared, that it did not relate to substance, but merely to form; that it was allowed on all hands, that the debates should be taken, and that stenographers should, consequently, be admitted. But the single question was, how, and under what authority, they should be admitted. They remarked, that they had heretofore been admitted by the Speaker, under whose direction they had remained; that the Speaker was the only proper authority under whose direction they ought still to remain; that, as the preservation of order and decorum rested with him, the stenographers, as well as other persons, should be permitted by him to enter the House, and be by him excluded, whenever, in his opinion, the order and a respect for the House required it. That, in case stenographers deported themselves in a disrespectful manner, or grossly misrepresented the ideas of members, the Speaker was the only person who could effectually cure the evil; that there had been, and might again be, instances of such misconduct; that, in one case, a stenographer had entered the House in a state of intoxication; another case, a speech of a gentleman from South Carolina, had been perversely misrepresented, and the stenographer had refused to correct his errors, for which he had been expelled the House; and that, in another case, the Speaker, considering himself as misrepresented, had expelled the stenographer.
Among the opponents of the motion, a great diversity of opinion prevailed. Mr. Eustis, Mr. Varnum, and Mr. Elmer, objected to it, merely on the ground that it was improper to come to any solemn decision, which was the less necessary, as the stenographers already occupied convenient seats, from which there was no probability of their being extruded by the Speaker.
Those who supported the motion, considered its decision as involving an important point; a point no less important, than, whether the debates of that House should be taken with accuracy, and published without fear or partiality. They averred it as a fact, that, owing to the unwarrantable conduct of the Speaker, this had heretofore, at many periods, not been the case. The public had sought information without being able to get it. It was true, that a stenographer had been expelled for publishing a speech of a gentleman from South Carolina; but it was not for misrepresenting that speech, but for faithfully publishing it; and in the other case alluded to, a stenographer had been expelled by the Speaker, for stating, with correctness, what the Speaker had himself said. These were alarming facts, not to be forgotten, and which claimed the interposition of the House. If stenographers should be guilty of indecorum, they could still (this rule notwithstanding) be expelled the House. It was acknowledged that the gentleman who at present filled the chair, was entitled to the full confidence of the House, but it was dangerous to vest arbitrary power in the hands of any man, and it was peculiarly proper to provide in fair, for foul weather; and it was added, that though the proposed rule would not be obligatory upon a future House, yet it would form a precedent, which they might see fit to respect.
The motion, as modified by Mr. Huger, was then agreed to—yeas 47, nays 32.
The committee then rose, and reported the rules with the above amendment.
The amendment was immediately taken up; when
Mr. Rutledge moved to amend the report of the committee, by making it read as follows:
"Stenographers may be admitted under the direction of the Speaker, who shall assign to them such places on the floor, as shall not interfere with the convenience of the House."
On this amendment a further debate ensued; after which, the yeas and nays were called, and were—yeas 27, nays 51.
Another motion was then made and seconded to amend the said amendment, by inserting after the words, "stenographers shall," the following words, "until otherwise ordered by the House;"
And, the question being thereupon taken, it passed in the negative.
And the main question being put, that the House do agree to the amendment for an additional rule, as reported from the Committee of the whole House, it was resolved in the affirmative—yeas, 47, nays 28.
Resolved, That this House doth agree to the said standing rules and orders, as amended.
Another member, to wit, Seth Hastings, from Massachusetts, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.
Mr. Randolph moved a resolution directing the Secretary of the Treasury to lay before the House an estimate of the value of the exports of the United States, for the last five years, to ports situated within the Straits of Gibraltar, discriminating articles of American growth from other productions.
Mr. Randolph observed that he was aware of the inability of the Secretary to distinguish precisely the exports of the United States, carried to the Mediterranean ports of France and Spain, from those carried to their other ports. But still he thought it probable that the Secretary might be able to furnish information that would be valuable.
Mr. S. Smith said, that when the report was made by the Secretary, it would be a report of deception. A great part of our trade to the Mediterranean had been lopped off in consequence of the war.
Mr. Smith afterwards remarked that, on the report being made, he feared the inquiry would be, whether we should give up the protection of the Mediterranean trade, or not. Gentlemen would probably go into a calculation of figures; and if the expense of protection appeared to be greater than the benefit of the trade, they might be for withholding protection. There was one description of trade to the Mediterranean, which we could obtain no estimate of, which was however very important—the tonnage of American shipping employed in going from European ports to the Mediterranean, and from the Mediterranean to European ports, and American shipping employed between the East Indies and the Mediterranean. This trade the Government was as much bound to protect, as it was bound to protect the landed interest of the country. Still, Mr. S. knew not that it would be proper to oppose the passage of a resolution that asked for information.
Mr. Smilie knew not what information we could receive; but he knew that whatever it should be, it could do no harm.
Mr. Nicholson remarked, that the House would not be in a worse situation after the report, than it was now. For himself, he was in a state of total ignorance, and he believed a large part of the House was also ignorant of the extent of our Mediterranean trade. It was impossible that the House could be deceived by the report; as, if any part of it should be calculated to deceive us, his colleague would be able to detect its errors. He had heard, and that too from commercial men, that our Mediterranean trade was not valuable, and not worth the expense of the squadron fitted out to protect it. He was at a loss to decide between these opinions and those of his colleague.
Mr. Mitchill spoke in favor of the resolution.
Mr. Griswold had no objection to obtaining the estimate, if desired by gentlemen; not that he supposed the report could present the information that was desired. With regard to our Mediterranean trade, it was well known, that lately, owing to our contest with Algiers, our fish and oil went in European bottoms, which could not be noticed in the Treasury statements, as they went first to other ports.
Mr. Eustis was perfectly willing to obtain the report, that the great increase in our trade to the Mediterranean should be seen; from which its great value would fully appear, and its claim to encouragement.
Mr. Varnum suggested the propriety of a reference to a select committee, which, from the documents before the House, could select the desired information.
Mr. Rutledge feared, that the call for this information would delay the passage of an important bill before the House for the protection of our Mediterranean commerce. He hoped, in order as promptly as possible to obtain information, the Secretary of the Treasury would be called upon for it. With respect to the protection of our trade in the Mediterranean, it was, in his opinion, unimportant what its extent was. We were bound to protect the commerce of our citizens in all its ramifications, whether great or small.
The resolution was then agreed to.
Another member, to wit, John Dawson, from Virginia, appeared, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.
The House then took up the amendment to the bill fixing the Military Peace Establishment.
Mr. Bayard moved to strike out the office of Brigadier General. He said there could not be any occasion for such an officer, as the men were scattered over the whole extent of our frontiers and Atlantic coast, and placed in small divisions.
This brought on a debate which was continued until after three o'clock.
The question was taken by yeas and nays for striking out—36 against it, 54 for it.
Mr. Bayard moved to strike out the office of colonel, and add one to the number of majors; but it was not agreed to.
The bill proposed to give those officers who should be deranged, three months' pay when they were dismissed from the service.
Mr. Griswold moved to strike out "three months," that a greater compensation might be given to those who have grown gray in the service of their country. He thought more was due to them than what the bill proposed to allow.
Mr. Varnum said, his own opinion was in favor of a greater compensation; but he owed it to a majority of that House, to yield his opinion to what they had fixed it at. He said there was nothing due to those officers, as nothing had been promised them.
Mr. Mitchill was in favor of striking out, for the purpose of inserting a compensation proportionate to the length of time the officers had been in service.
Mr. Bacon differed as to the principle laid down by gentlemen. When officers were wanted, there was great competition for the appointments. They were desirous to receive the pay and emoluments. He did not think there was any thing due to them.
Mr. S. Smith was for pursuing some system in this business, and keeping to a uniform principle. When a reduction was made in 1796, six months' pay and subsistence was granted. He would be in favor of that at this time.
Mr. Dana believed those officers accepted their appointments under an idea of its being the permanent Peace Establishment, and therefore something was due to them when dismissed from the public service.
Mr. Smilie said, they knew the terms on which they entered the service, and they entered voluntarily. How could any thing, then, be due to them? It would be more proper to give the men something when disbanded than to provide for the officers. It was not long since that about forty were wanted, and there were thirteen hundred applications. Men could not always be obtained. When the ten regiments were ordered to be raised, the officers were soon obtained; but, after recruiting a long time, the proper number of men could not be procured.
The question for striking out was taken by yeas and nays—for it 26, against it 56.
Mr. S. Smith made a motion to raise it to the same as was granted in 1796.
Mr. Eustis advocated it, but it was not carried, there being 26 for it, and 45 against it.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.
An engrossed bill fixing the Military Peace Establishment of the United States was read the third time.
Mr. Bayard observed that he should vote for the bill, because he thought it better than the former system, and it would be of much saving as to expense. He was, however, very far from being pleased with a part of that bill, that part relating to the Brigadier General and his aide-de-camp. This office he knew to be a perfect sinecure; no such officer was necessary; he could have no duties to perform. He would not, however, vote against the whole bill on account of this.
Mr. Rutledge.—The first section was very disagreeable to him, as it went to the establishment of a perfect sinecure. He was willing to do homage to the merit of the officer who was to benefit; but he rather thought it would be more consonant with justice, if money must be needlessly sported with, to suffer such money to be given to those who have been long in service—some fifteen or twenty years—and who are now by this bill suddenly forced to quit their present, to seek some new way of obtaining a livelihood, in circumstances, many of them perhaps, not enviable.
Mr. R. was not pleased with the so great reduction of the artillery; he thought the retention of the artillery of more importance than that of the infantry. He had hoped the artillery would have been retained to keep in order the forts already built in different parts of the United States; the small number remaining was quite incompetent to preserving them in order, or preserving them from decay. The Secretary of War mentions one fort in South Carolina. There are, sir, four forts in the harbor of Charleston alone, some of which must go to decay. He should vote for the bill because it went to make great reductions of expense, which reductions circumstances now allow us to afford; but the sinecure was obnoxious to him, and he was not pleased with the reduction of the artillery.
On the question that the bill do pass, it was resolved in the affirmative—yeas 77, nays 12.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for the protection of the commerce and seamen of the United States in the Mediterranean and adjoining seas.
Mr. Bayard offered an amendment, the purport of which, was to give to the President the power of granting letters of marque and reprisal, to affect Algiers and Tunis as well as Tripoli. Mr. B. thought that it would be unsafe to neglect a cautionary step like this, because there was great danger, from the similarity of religion and manners, of a union taking place between Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli; they may be brought into the war with Tripoli against us. It would be a matter of prudence to be prepared.
Mr. Dana thought it very probable that further information would be received from the Barbary powers, when we shall be the better enabled to judge what will be expedient. He did not like the appearance of the amendment; it seemed to invite war.
Mr. Bayard considered there was a great difference between the Barbary powers and civilized nations; it was on account of the perfidiousness of those powers, that he wished it left to the direction of the President to exercise the power vested in him when he should think proper; there was no trusting to them. He wished the President to do this by the authority of law; this would prevent those doubts that have been expressed by some, of the constitutionality of his measures the last spring and summer; though for his part he was disposed to approbate the proceedings of the Executive on that occasion. As to its having the appearance of threatening, he did not think so; nor did he believe it would have any effect on those powers; he hardly believed that the Dey of Algiers ever read the acts of Congress.
Mr. Dana was opposed to considering the subject at present; he was for postponing till further information should be received.
Mr. Giles was against the amendment; he thought it had the appearance of inviting them to an attack, of challenging them to combat, of irritating and provoking them: he believed there would be ample time to act on this matter hereafter, when they would have a better knowledge of circumstances, and of what to expect.
Mr. Bayard said he was by no means disposed to withdraw his motion. You are at war with one of these nations; the others are connected with them by their religion and habits, by their government some, and by their interest more. I have been told that there is no connection between my amendment and the bill; but I am confident there is the same connection that there is between Tripoli and the other powers; and it is proper to extend the bill so as to embrace Tunis and Algiers, as well as Tripoli. The gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. Dana) says there are no doubts on his mind but that the President has a constitutional right, as the Commander-in-chief of the army and navy, to do as he has done; but it should be remembered that many have doubts; and why should the gentleman be opposed to this amendment, which will preclude all doubt on the subject.
The amendment was not carried.
The House then went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for amending the act for laying and collecting a direct tax.
The first section repeals the thirteenth section of the act of 1798, which prescribes that lands on which taxes remain unpaid for one year, shall be sold subject to the right of redemption within two years after sale.
Mr. Randolph stated that the provisions proposed to be repealed were unsusceptible of execution, inasmuch as the expenses of advertising required, exceeded in many cases by four or five times, the amount of the tax, and which exceeded the per centage allowed; and inasmuch as no person would buy the land offered for sale, when he might be deprived of it by a redemption within two years.
Documents were read which substantiated this statement.
Mr. S. Smith opposed the repeal, as going to deprive the owners of lands of the right of redemption; which he deemed a valuable provision; without which the owners of land, particularly non-residents, would be deprived of their property, without a knowledge of the tax imposed, or being able, however desirous, to pay it.
Mr. Rutledge also opposed the repeal, as imposing hardships upon those who have not paid the tax, which were not imposed upon those who have paid. He further stated that the non-payment in the Southern States had arisen, not from indisposition to pay, but from want of collectors to carry the law into execution; the compensation allowed having been so inadequate as in many districts to have disabled the Government from obtaining officers.
Messrs. Griswold, Milledge, Stanley, and Morris, delivered their sentiments against the first section; when, on motion of Mr. Macon, the committee rose, and asked leave to sit again, which was granted.
Another member, to wit, Robert Williams, from North Carolina, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.
Mr. Nicholson called up the resolution he laid on the table on Friday, for instructing the Committee of Ways and Means to report generally on the subject of impost duties.
Mr. Lowndes wished to amend it so as to direct the attention of that committee particularly to the articles of salt, brown sugar, coffee, and Bohea tea.
This the Speaker considered out of order, as resolutions on those subjects were then before the House.
Mr. Rutledge and Mr. Bayard wished to withdraw the resolutions they had offered on the articles of salt, brown sugar, &c.
Mr. Speaker considered the resolutions in possession of the House, as they had been debated, and the previous question taken on them, and no motion could be made while another motion was pending.
Mr. Bayard asked for information whether it was in order for him to state that he withdrew his resolution?
Some conversation took place as to points of order.
The question on the resolution was called for.
Mr. Dana said there was no instruction given to the committee by the resolution of December 13, to make a report on the subject of imposts and tonnage. He was pleased to see this resolution moved by the gentleman from Maryland, as it showed his belief to be that the subject was not referred to the committee.
Mr. Dana expressed his wish that two things should be referred to the Committee of Ways and Means: First, a general view of the duties of imposts and excise that they might be contrasted; and, secondly, that certain articles should be specifically referred to them.
Mr. Nicholson said the gentleman from Connecticut was very much mistaken as to the object of his resolution. It was not that he did not think the subject before the committee, but as so much had been said about the former general reference, he wished to prevent the gentleman from Connecticut from quibbling respecting the reference.
[Here Mr. N. was called to order by Mr. Griswold. The Speaker declared it as his opinion that the gentleman was in order. Mr. Bayard appealed to the House, and called the yeas and nays, which were agreed to be taken.]
Internal Revenues—Expenses of collection compared with Custom House Duties.
Mr. Bayard called up the following resolution, which he had some days previously laid upon the table, viz: