Monday, May 28.

Marine Corps.

Mr. Sewall called for the order of the day on the report of the Committee for the Protection of Commerce and the Defence of the Country, proposing an arrangement, in one corps, of the marines, who are or shall be engaged in the service of the United States, and by annexing them to the existing Military Establishment, to consist of a major and suitable commissioned and non-commissioned officers, 500 privates, and the necessary musicians.

Mr. Gallatin wished the committee who made this report, would inform the House how many men would be wanted on board the several armed vessels of the United States.

Mr. J. Parker said the United States have three frigates, twelve ships, and ten galleys. The two 44 gun frigates will require fifty marines each; one of 36 will need 48 men; two vessels of 22 guns each, will want 25 each; two vessels of 20 guns will require the same number; eight vessels of 16 guns each will need 20 men each; and ten galleys each 10 men, making in the whole 518, exclusive of sergeants and music. There will be no additional expense attending the change except the pay of a major, and it would be much more convenient to be thus organized, than to remain as at present.

Mr. Varnum wished to know whether these men could ever be together so as to enable the commanding officer of a battalion to discipline the corps. He believed they would be separate in the different vessels, and that there would be no means of bringing them together for the purpose. Besides, those marines who have engaged in the service, have engaged to serve on board ship, and not on land, so that this law would have a retrospective effect on those men, now, to say they should serve both on sea and land.

Mr. Sewall could not say that these marines could be brought together to be disciplined; but the major would superintend the whole, hear complaints, and attend to the recruiting service. He would also have to attend to the fortifications, and take a great deal of trouble from the War office. The men would also sometimes be on shore, and without some officer is appointed, they would be solely under the care of the lieutenant. He believed, upon the whole, much advantage and economy would be derived from it.

The question being put upon the report, it was agreed to—54 votes being for it.

The committee then rose, and the House agreed to the report, after a few observations from Mr. Gallatin, hoping that, when the bill was brought in, this corps of marines would not be made a permanent part of the Military Establishment; but only have the same duration with the laws for equipping and keeping in employment the armed vessels.

Friday, June 1.

Intercourse with France.

The bill for suspending the commercial intercourse between the United States and the French Republic, was read the third time; and, after the blanks were filled,

Mr. Gallatin inquired, whether there was not a mistake in the third section of the bill in that part which related to foreigners. The bill, as it stands, would affect vessels belonging to foreigners residing here. He proposed a change in the phraseology.

Mr. Sewall had no objection to the alteration, and he supposed it might be made by general consent, without recommitting the bill.

Consent was granted, and the alteration made.

The following question was then put, "Shall this bill pass?"

Mr. McDowell could not reconcile it to himself to give a silent vote on the passage of this important bill. He had heard no reason assigned for the introduction of this bill, either when the original proposition was before the House, or since; and, therefore, though the bill might pass by a large majority, he should give his vote against it. It had been said, by the gentleman from Massachusetts, that this bill was intended to secure the property of the citizens of the United States from capture. How was this to be done? This bill will not lay an embargo, and, therefore, cannot prevent our vessels from falling into the hands of the French, or any other nation, who chooses to attack them. If gentlemen wished to effect their object, they ought to propose a general embargo; but when he found gentlemen indisposed to this, he could scarcely believe them serious in their wishes to prevent the property of our citizens from being taken. By this bill our merchants are prohibited from trading to any of the ports of France or her dependencies. This he neither thought politic or just. He thought there was no cause for going this length at present. It would be seen by the estimate on the table, the great amount of exports sent to those countries, and this bill would not only destroy the trade to France and her dependencies, but affect also all our other trade. Gentlemen better acquainted with commerce than he pretended to be, would be able to ascertain the effects of this regulation with more precision than he could do; but it appeared to him that this regulation would put the whole of our exports within the power of Great Britain. He hoped, therefore, gentlemen would consider the inconveniences which would be produced by this measure, and not suffer their passions, which are so highly irritated against France, to lead our citizens into serious difficulties, for the sake of doing her some injury. There could be no doubt, that the moment France received the information of the passage of this bill, all negotiation would be put an end to, and they will lay their hands on all the property belonging to citizens of this country, which they can meet with. He was of opinion that the prudence of merchants alone would be sufficient to regulate the business, without Legislative interference. Mr. McD. hoped, therefore, the bill would be passed, and called the yeas and nays upon it.

Mr. Sewall said, it was very true, as the gentleman from North Carolina observed, that no general reasons had been given in favor of this bill; and he did not know that any opportunity had occurred in which they could with propriety have been given. Certainly if a measure meets with general approbation, and passes without argument and without discussion, it must have been carried for the best reasons. Reasons, said he, are not strengthened by debate; general consent indicates the strongest reasons in favor of a measure that can be assigned.

The gentleman from North Carolina has supposed that the only arguments in favor of this bill was, that it would be the means of protecting the commerce of our citizens; that argument, he agreed, was forcible, but he confessed he relied upon this measure very much affecting our enemy. It occurred to the committee that this measure might very much distress the French West Indies, which are the harbor of a nest of pirates, which continually assail our commerce. It is true, he said, that our commerce is also annoyed in the European seas, but in a much greater degree from vessels fitted out from the West Indies; the privateers from these islands depredate our commerce upon our coast, and if no measures are taken to prevent it, they might soon be expected on our shores. Any measure, therefore, which can be taken, consistent with our political situation, ought to be taken to prevent this mischief. This would not be carrying on hostility, but would withdraw from our enemies the means of supporting their hostility. Gentlemen have objected to this bill because they conceive it will not have this effect; he was, on the contrary, in favor of it, because he believed it would have the effect.

Mr. S. considered our trade with France as at present annihilated, as well as that with Spain and Holland, in a great degree; and France must hereafter, if this bill passes into a law, carry on her trade with this country by means of vessels belonging to the Hanse Towns, Sweden, or Denmark; and having reduced France to the necessity of changing her measures with regard to the neutral powers of Europe, she might, perhaps, be induced to change her conduct with respect to the United States, or perhaps with respect to all the neutral powers. He thought this measure recommended by these political considerations. Whether it would produce all the effect which had been mentioned, he could not tell, but it was well calculated to produce it. And the only objection to the measure appeared to be, that it would produce commercial disadvantages to our merchants; but since the adoption of the decree of the French Directory, which directs that all neutral vessels, with British produce or manufactures on board, shall be confiscated as good prizes, and which goes to the destruction of nearly all our trade, this objection would have but little weight, as a trade thus carried on would stand but a very small chance of producing any profit. Some merchants, indeed, are of opinion that our trade to France and her dependencies has for a long time past been attended with loss instead of profit. It was evident, he said, that the decree to which he had alluded had already had the effect in this country to lower the price of our produce, as many vessels employed in that trade are now employed in a different manner.

Mr. Gallatin must confess, without pretending to be a very good judge of the subject, that this measure appeared to him at least of a doubtful nature. The object of it is said to be to distress France and the French West Indies as much as possible. How far this could be effected, or whether the attempt to distress our enemy might not distress ourselves more than the enemy, he was not able to ascertain with precision. With respect to France herself, he did not see that it could have any effect. As to the West Indies, Guadaloupe, which he supposed was the place principally aimed at, was so situated with respect to neutral islands that she could always procure supplies of provisions from them. The only place, then, which would be affected by this regulation would be St. Domingo, and there he believed it might have some effect. If the intercourse between this country and that was stopped, it might be distressed for want of provisions; but in doing this he was persuaded we should also injure ourselves, by annihilating our commerce and sinking the price of our produce. With respect to our commerce, in six weeks or two months, all the trade which our merchants now carry on to French ports would be transferred to other neutral nations. The Danes and Swedes will come into our ports and carry our produce to the French islands; so that the only difference, after that time, will be that the carrying trade which we now have will be transferred to those powers. France will be supplied by way of Holland or Hamburg, and as the freight and other expenses attending the trade will of course be greater than if the commerce was carried on direct, it may be expected the price here will be low. It would be the same with respect to provisions. If the measure would be likely to distress France or her islands to any considerable degree, so as the better to bring her to terms of accommodation, he should not object to it. The inconveniences attending it must be encountered by our citizens; but seeing its effects on our enemy would be doubtful, and upon ourselves certain, he should vote against the bill.

Effectually to prevent provisions being carried to the West Indies, the exportation of them ought to be forbidden, both in our own vessels and in all others. Without this we cannot prevent our provisions from being exported by means of neutral vessels to French ports.

So far as related to his own constituents, Mr. G. said, they are not immediately concerned in this question, as they do not export their produce either to the West Indies or any port of Europe, but to New Orleans, by the Mississippi. He stated the matter as it struck him, and left other gentlemen to enlarge upon it.

Mr. Rutledge allowed that the bill was liable to the objection which had been urged by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, and which might be made against every measure which would be proposed for the defence of the country; it might be said of it that it will produce some inconvenience to our constituents, and bear hard upon the commercial and agricultural interests; but he believed no measure could be devised which would prove so injurious to France, and as little inconvenient to America, as suspending the commercial intercourse between the two countries.

The gentleman from Pennsylvania thinks the bill under consideration will prove fruitless, because the vessels of Sweden and Denmark may carry our produce to the French West Indies; this could not be contemplated as a probable event; in the convulsed state in which almost all the commercial States of Europe are, neutral bottoms will be in too great demand in Europe to permit of their seeking freights in America. If, however, they shall come here, and the Danes and Swedes become our carriers, we can then adopt the regulation suggested by the gentleman from Pennsylvania; we can then prohibit our intercourse with the French, even by means of neutrals; or as that may be impracticable, inasmuch as we shall not have any control over a neutral vessel after she leaves our ports, we can lay a general embargo.

Mr. R. thought gentlemen were greatly mistaken who imagined the present measure would lower the prices of our produce. He did not believe they would fall in consequence of the present bill or any which could be passed. He did not believe a declared war would lower the price of our grain. For some time past, an ex parte war has existed; the French have made war in every sea upon our commerce, which for months past has been bleeding at every pore. Government has not protected the trade of the country, but has, by preventing our vessels from arming, deprived our merchants of the use of the means their wealth afforded, of protecting themselves; thus insurance and seamen's wages have been higher, and the price of produce lower than they probably will be in a state of declared war. The grain of the State he had the honor of representing sells for less than it has done for twenty years past, or at any period of the last war; rice, which is the great staple of the country, and which, a few years ago, sold at six dollars the hundred weight, now sells but for a dollar and a half, and Indian corn, which article, the year before last, sold at a dollar a bushel, now sells for twenty-five cents only.

The gentleman from North Carolina has insisted, that because our trade to France and her dependencies, for the two last years, has been great, we ought not to stop it. He thinks that merchants understand their interests better than we do, and that if they, who are in the habit of calculating risks, think it proper to prosecute a trade with France, that we ought not to restrain them. Mr. R. allowed that our exports to France the year before the last had been great, but said that our returns had been small indeed; of the great number of valuable cargoes sent to St. Domingo, very few have been paid for. The proclamations of persons in authority in that island, and other deceptive contrivances, have allured much of our property to its ports, but, arriving there, it has been arbitrarily taken at a price fixed by the government, and payment made by bills upon France, which have not been paid, and are now lying protested at Paris, to the amount of many millions of dollars. So that our exports, which the gentleman says France has taken, have been literally taken, very little of it having been paid for. Upon such terms it was impossible to suppose this commerce would continue, and it is fallacious in the extreme to calculate, as a permanent trade, that which a peculiar state of things has occasioned with the French islands for some years past, and which we are now suffering for having engaged in.

Mr. R. said he was not apprehensive of giving umbrage to any honest merchant or fair trader, when he declared it as his opinion, that a trade with France would not and could not be carried on at present but by persons sinking under pecuniary embarrassments. Like gamblers upon the threshold of ruin, they adventure and put at hazard the remnants of their fortune to increase the chances of recovering what had been previously lost. The trade, he also believed, was in a great degree carried on for some time past by bankrupts, who, by means of bank facilities, and other credits fraudulently obtained, were enabled to speculate in a sea of danger and risk, into which they would not have gone if they had had any thing to lose. In such a state of things, it would be wise and expedient for Government to interfere, and say to the merchants who are willing to continue trading with France, although you may be disposed to continue this commerce, because it is carried on upon a borrowed capital, and because it is insured in Europe, yet we will put a stop to it, for we must take care of our sailors. When they are abused and imprisoned, and their captains publicly whipped in French ports, it is our duty to protect and preserve them from a continuance of such injuries. Mr. R. concluded with observing, that the present bill would occasion much distress to the French islands; would be the means of preserving many of our vessels and seamen, and answer other very valuable purposes. He hoped therefore it would pass.

Mr. Otis said, as neither of the gentlemen who had spoken on this subject had expressed an opinion which had a primary influence on his mind, he would beg leave to declare it in a few words. It was undoubtedly desirable, that this country should have a free commerce with all the world; but, under our present circumstances, with relation to France, no intercourse will be maintained with that country by the fair American merchant. He will not venture his property either to France, or to any of her dependencies. None but merchants who may have exclusive privileges in the ports of France, will now carry on this trade. He had no doubt that Citizen Hedouville, and other agents of the Directory, would give exclusive privileges to a certain description of dealers at the expense of the fair trader. Protections of this kind had been given, he believed, to favorite traders in every considerable port in the United States; and were not the proposed regulations to be adopted, these persons would be growing fat and rich, while the whole body of merchants would be suffering from the injustice and violence of the French. He did not think it would be prudent to leave room for encouragements of this kind to any of our citizens. For, while they are in the habit of receiving large favors from the agents of the French Government, they will be likely to feel a stronger attachment to the interests of that country than of their own; and a stronger temptation could not be offered to them than a monopoly of the French trade.

Mr. O. inquired whether, in a state of war, it was not usual and proper for all nations to restrain their subjects from a direct trade with their enemies? And are we not in war? Have we not passed a variety of bills which gentlemen have declared amount to war? This very morning, a bill has been passed, which, according to their construction, reaches the climax of war measures. If, then, we are now in a state of war, it will be inexpedient to continue to carry on this traffic. But, it is said, if we restrain our own citizens, it will be carried on by neutral nations. To a certain degree, it might be supposed that this would be the case; but this is one of the losses incident to a state of war. We must expect that a part of our carrying trade will be transferred to neutrals for a time; but though this will affect the mercantile part of the community, it will not wound the agricultural interest so deeply as a total suspension of commerce. If neutral vessels come hither for produce, the price will not fall so low as it otherwise would do, and the farmers will be the better able to bear the burdens which a war must necessarily lay upon them.

Mr. W. C. Claiborne said, it was his intention to vote in favor of the passage of this bill for two reasons. The first was, we have many vessels and much property afloat on the ocean, which we cannot adequately defend, and which is now constantly depredated upon. This measure will keep many of our vessels at home. The second was, that it would tend to increase our revenue, which at this time is a very desirable thing; for he was of opinion, that the neutral powers of Europe would become the carriers of our produce to the West Indies. Denmark, Sweden, and the Dutch all possess islands in the West Indies in the neighborhood of the French Islands, and if they come and fetch away our produce, the duty on tonnage will be increased; and the duties arising from imposts will not be lessened, as they will doubtless bring with them the produce of Europe when they come out to this country.

The question on the passage of the bill was then taken, and stood—yeas 55, nays 25.

Monday, June 4.

Mr. Macon informed the House of the death of his colleague, Mr. Bryan, at nine o'clock this morning. The House, in consequence, entered into a resolution appointing the members of North Carolina a committee to manage the funeral of the deceased, and stating that the House do attend the same. This committee afterwards reported that the funeral would take place at nine o'clock in the morning.[35]

Seditious Practices.

Mr. Sewall, from the committee for the protection of commerce and the defence of the country, reported a bill for the prevention and restraint of dangerous and seditious practices, which was committed for Wednesday.

[This bill proposes, that any alien resident, or who shall come to reside within the United States, who hath been convicted of any felony, or other infamous crime, or who shall be a notorious fugitive from justice, upon any charge of treasonable or seditious practices, in any foreign State or country, or whose continuance within the United States shall be, in the opinion of the President of the United States, injurious to the public peace and safety, may be deemed and adjudged a dangerous person, and may be required to depart from the country, and be apprehended and removed therefrom. And if any person, whether alien or citizen, shall secretly or openly combine, or conspire together, with an intention of opposing any measures of the Government of the United States, which are or shall be directed by the proper authority, or to defeat the operation of any law of the United States, or to discourage or prevent any person holding any place or office in or under the Government of the United States, from undertaking or executing his trust or duty; and if any person, with intent as aforesaid, shall by any writing, printing, or advised speaking, threaten such officer or person in public trust, with any danger to his character, person, or property, or shall counsel or advise, or attempt to procure any insurrection, riot, or unlawful assembly or combination as aforesaid, whether such conspiring, &c., shall have the proposed effect or not, shall and may be punished, upon the conviction of the offence, by a fine not exceeding ---- dollars, and by binding, with sufficient surety for good behavior, or by imprisonment for a term not exceeding —— years; and if the person so convicted shall be an alien, he may be farther adjudged, in lieu of such binding or imprisonment, to be banished and removed from the territory of the United States.]

Tuesday, June 5.

Mr. Rutledge proposed a resolution to the following effect, which was unanimously agreed to:

Relations with France.

A Message was received from the President of the United States, as follows:

The said Message, and communications referred to therein, were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Wednesday, June 6.

Mr. Allen proposed a resolution to the following effect:

Ordered to lie on the table.

Relations with France.

Mr. D. Foster laid the following resolutions upon the table, viz:

They were ordered to lie upon the table.

Friday, June 8.

Letters of Marque, &c.

Mr. D. Foster then called up his resolutions relative to granting general reprisals, letters of marque, &c., which, being read, he moved to refer to the Committee for the Protection of Commerce and the Defence of the Country, with power to report by bill or otherwise.

Mr. Davis hoped these resolutions would not be referred. It appeared very strange to him that gentlemen should be desirous of taking this step at present. He had heard much in this House about French parties, and of gentlemen being attached to France, but he thought the House had witnessed, not many minutes ago, something of another party, (referring to the negative which had been put upon the resolution calling upon the President for information respecting British depredations.) And yet, when we have lately received information from France that peace is probably yet within our grasp, a motion is brought forward which, if adopted, would effectually shut out all hopes of a favorable termination of our dispute. In the conclusion of the late despatches, he read as follows:

So, that two of our Commissioners might be expected shortly to return, to lay certain propositions before the Government here, or that they will write for farther instructions; and, whilst these things are pending, can a proposition like the present be justified? He thought not. It was not, in his mind, a declaration of war; but it was evidently a war measure. And when it is evident, from our Envoys' own showing, that the negotiation between them and the Minister of Foreign Affairs in France was in train on the 8th of March, the date of their last despatches, as certain propositions had been made to them which were not rejected, he thought it would be extremely imprudent to refer resolutions of so hostile a kind as these certainly are. It would be time enough, Mr. D. said, to adopt a measure of this kind when our Envoys shall have informed us that peace is unattainable; but, whilst they held up a contrary expectation, he could not consent to do any thing which should cast wholly away the hope of preserving a state of peace. With respect to the first resolution, which declares the treaty between France and this country void, he had not much objection to it, because it must be so considered from the laws already passed; but those which respect the granting letters of marque and general reprisals, he thought very objectionable indeed.

Mr. Harper said, if the arguments of the gentleman from Kentucky were well founded, he had not introduced them at the proper time. If he views the state of our negotiation with France in the light which he had placed it, his objections to this measure are natural and consistent; but they ought to be made, when a bill is brought in, against its being read a second time; or if the motion had now been to adopt the resolutions instead of referring them, the remarks which he had made would have been perfectly in order; but that gentleman must know that there is a great difference between committing and agreeing to adopt a resolution. He would confess that he, for one, should not now be ready to agree to any of those propositions, though a fortnight hence he might be willing to adopt them all. If the motion was, therefore, for adopting, instead of referring them, he should move a postponement, or the previous question, or take some other mode of disposing of them; but when the motion was merely to refer them to a committee who might report upon them immediately, or let them lie until farther information was received from our commissioners; or, if they report a bill, that bill might lie until gentlemen thought proper to pass upon it. He did not, therefore, see any ground for the alarm which the gentleman from Kentucky has shown. He confessed he could not look upon our negotiation with France as in the happy train in which it appears to that gentleman. He knew we might have peace, if we would consent to have our property plundered ad libitum; or by paying a contribution to the full amount of our ability to pay, which were the terms that Talleyrand and his agents had offered to our Envoys; and this loan was made a sine qua non by Talleyrand. He could not tell, therefore, how the gentleman from Kentucky could conceive the negotiation to be in good train, except he is willing to pay the tribute which France demands from us.

Mr. Venable said, the gentleman last up had drawn a distinction between committing these resolutions and agreeing to them, and had said that he himself is not ready to agree to them. Mr. V. thought resolutions of this kind ought not to be laid upon the table before the House is ready to decide upon them, as the moment the foreign nation to which they have reference hears that such resolutions have been brought forward, they will take advantage of it, and seize all the property belonging to our citizens within their power. If the resolutions are not proper, therefore, to be adopted, they ought immediately to be rejected; for, if this is not done, we may expect that not only all the property of our citizens in French ports will be seized, but that all our vessels without exception which can be met with will be taken. He hoped, therefore, if gentlemen are of opinion with him that the time for taking measures like the present is not yet arrived, that the reference would be refused. It would do infinite mischief. We ought not, he said, to show a spirit of this kind, until we are perfectly prepared to act. And as he believed the House is better calculated to judge of the propriety of thus changing the situation of the country, than any committee could be, he should not choose to ask the opinion of the Committee for the Protection of Commerce and the Defence of the Country what he should do in this case.

Mr. R. Williams observed, that the gentleman from South Carolina seemed to argue in favor of committing these resolutions, as if no time would be so proper for doing so as the present. But he believed this House would be equally capable of judging of this matter hereafter as at present, and could act upon them in future as well as now. Why, then, ought the House now to refer them, when even the gentleman from South Carolina says he is not prepared to vote for them; but that if he were called upon now to vote upon them, he should give his negative on the question?

It appeared to him, Mr. W. said, that the reference of these resolutions could have no other appearance than that of a challenge, and will doubtless produce the consequences which have been mentioned by the gentleman from Virginia. And however their vessels may have depredated upon our commerce, and suffered their citizens to plunder us at sea, they have not gone so far as to make it a national act to seize all the property of our citizens within their power. He was, therefore, opposed to this reference: for though, whenever the time of actual war shall arrive, (for it seemed as if it must arrive,) we shall think it necessary to do France all the mischief we can, yet he did not think it would be prudent to tell them we mean to injure them in this or that way beforehand.

Mr. Harrison believed, that to refer these resolutions would be to give them a degree of sanction; and as he looked upon the question as very important, he should call for the yeas and nays upon it. They were agreed to be taken.

Mr. Gallatin said, it appeared to him that the committee to whom it is proposed to refer these resolutions might, without this reference, have brought the subject before the House, as they are appointed to consider whatever relates to the protection of commerce and the defence of the country. The reference must mean something more, therefore, than a mere instruction to them to consider the subject, because they have already those instructions given to them generally in their original appointment. What, he asked, could be obtained by a vote on this subject? He was at a loss to know. He could see no possible good to be derived from it. He wished, indeed, the committee to whom it is proposed to refer these resolutions, instead of doing the business committed to them by piecemeal, in the manner which they had adopted, had laid before the House at once a complete general plan of defence consistent with the present situation of the country. A majority of this House seem not only ready to take every defensive measure, but, in a certain degree, offensive measures also. This having been once determined, the committee might very well prepare such a plan. Such a plan would be more consistent and uniform, than if individual members were left to bring forward any measures which it may strike them as necessary to be taken. Of what use, Mr. G. asked, had been the reference of a set of resolutions made some days ago by Mr. Sitgreaves? No report has been made upon them. A part of them were of the same nature with these, and would authorize a report on this subject, if the committee had not the general power already mentioned.

So far as any conclusion could be drawn from the despatches of our Ministers, he confessed he had no great hopes of our negotiation with France being concluded in an effectual manner. He saw a kind of negotiation open between our Envoys and the French Minister for Foreign Affairs. He saw that the latter had asked for a loan; a demand inadmissible by our Envoys, since it was contrary to their instructions; a demand inadmissible from any instructions they might hereafter receive, for the sentiments of the Executive on that subject were well known; and, he would add, a demand inadmissible in its very nature, inadmissible in the opinion not only of this House, but of every individual in the House. So that, as long as that demand was insisted upon, no accommodation could be effected. But it must have been remarked, in the late despatches, that when our Envoys inquired of Mr. Talleyrand whether a loan of money was the ultimatum of the French Government, he did not choose to give a direct answer. This shows it to be possible that this demand may not be their ultimatum; and if not, as we have heard it reported, (though not officially,) that one of our Commissioners still remains in Paris, it would not be prudent to take any step that would defeat any treaty which might be in contemplation.

Mr. W. Claiborne hoped the motion for postponement would prevail, for, though a reference of those resolutions would not be a complete sanction of them, he should consider it as a prelude to a speedy adoption. His observation on the past proceedings of the House justified this remark.

Mr. C. differed in opinion from the gentleman from North Carolina as to the power of Congress with respect to treaties. He believed Congress has a right to do away any treaty by a Legislative act; if not, he should think he lived under the most miserable Government upon earth.

What, said Mr. C., is the nature of the injuries which we have received from France? Have they not been wholly maritime? and have we not done all we can conveniently do for the defence of our commerce? Was not all our marine force already under such regulations as to be enabled to act to great advantage in the prevention of future outrages on our commerce? Why, then, shall we proceed to measures which must inevitably involve the country in war? Will the adoption of these resolutions give us a single ship or gun? No. Why, then, widen the breach between the two countries, by acting upon a measure more replete with impolicy than any act he ever saw introduced into that House. If it were adopted, it would go to the destruction of our commerce with several of the great commercial powers; for the moment war is declared with France, we shall also be at war with Spain and Holland, her allies. And when a war with Spain shall take place, the commerce of the Southern States and Western country will be immediately gone, and all our vessels in French, Dutch, or Spanish ports, will doubtless be confiscated. These, he said, were evils which he foresaw would attend the adoption of these resolutions, and he called upon the mover to show a single advantage which could be derived from their adoption. He hoped, therefore, the question would be postponed for a week; and if, at the end of that period, nothing shall have transpired which will make their adoption proper, he trusted they would then be farther postponed. If France is determined to have war with us, we must and will defend ourselves; but he was desirous that no act of ours should show that we ourselves wish for war.

Mr. Sitgreaves did not feel very solicitous whether the reference of these resolutions should or should not be postponed for one week, as he did not think so short a time would make any essential difference in the state of things; but, as he knew no good purpose that could be answered by the postponement, he should vote against it. He rose to offer his reasons in favor of the reference, generally.

His colleague (Mr. Gallatin) had fallen into two mistakes; he had said that these resolutions are of the same nature with those which he (Mr. Sitgreaves) had the honor, some days ago, to lay before the House; and that the committee, to which the resolutions are proposed to be referred, have, at present, all the power which this reference would give them. He was not correct, in the first place, in saying that these resolutions are of the same nature with those formerly submitted. The former propositions suggested a course of special reprisal, in cases limited and defined; the present propositions are for letters of general marque and reprisal, which modes of proceeding are essentially different in their nature and their incidents, in their theory and practice. The present propositions, also, recommend a declaration on the subject of the treaties, to which the former ones made no allusion. He believed his colleague to be equally mistaken in his other assertion, that the committee had already power to report to the extent of these resolutions, if they should deem it expedient. Their general power was to consider and report upon so much of the President's Speech as relates to the protection of commerce and defence of the country; and this authority, when construed with relation to the Speech, cannot be considered as going beyond the measures of defence, strictly compatible with the neutral position in which we stood at the commencement of the session; and could not, without an express reference, justify the committee in proposing broad measures of hostility. This, however, is a question of form merely. If the committee have already the power, the reference proposed can do no mischief; if they have it not already, it remains to inquire whether they ought not to have it. He conceived they ought.

Mr. Baldwin said, that nothing was more certain than that individual members could not vote to refer a motion to a committee, as was now proposed, unless at the time they feel themselves favorably disposed to the object of the motion, and vote to refer it to a committee to further that object, and to give it practicable shape and form. The gentleman who had just sat down should reflect, that referring petitions is a matter of course, and is established by usage as a respectful form of receiving and hearing the applications of our fellow-citizens. The introduction of a petition requires no second; but a motion made and seconded, is to be regarded as a step in the actual operations of the House. For himself he must say that, with respect to the present motion, it required no time for him to be ready to declare, that he was not now favorably disposed towards it, and could not, in any shape, now give it his countenance and support.

When he reflected on what they had done in the small space of a few weeks, and the course of measures which had been adopted by Congress since the receipt of the despatches from our Envoys, he thought they had come on, one upon another, in a succession sufficiently rapid. They must, in their nature, greatly affect the state of the country, perhaps more than was ever done before in so short a time. He thought it would be wise in the House, at present, to make a short pause, before they proceeded any further. It is a subject on which all Governments are apt to err, and to proceed too rapidly. Let us, said he, take a little time to ourselves, and give some time to our constituents, to look at our interests, and the state of our public affairs, in the new posture which we have given them in the course of a few weeks.

Our measures, he said, divided themselves into three classes; first, the internal defence of our country and of our sea-coast. On this there had been no difference of opinion; we had adopted, promptly, the same course of measures which had been adopted a few years ago, when we were threatened by another European power; we had fortified our ports and harbors, fixed row-galleys and other vessels on our coast, and ordered a draft of eighty thousand militia to hold themselves in constant readiness; and ordered a million of dollars to be expended, in procuring arms, cannon, and ammunition, to be placed all along the country in proper situations, that they may be put into use by such of our fellow-citizens as should be driven to the unfortunate necessity of defending themselves by arms. He had been glad to see such a perfect unanimity in those measures, and such a readiness, on all quarters, to vote even larger sums than were recommended in the reports for these purposes. This course of measures was founded on principles merely defensive, and related only to our own country, and our own coast within cannon shot from our shores, which, by the law of nations, is called our territory; he trusted what had been done, accompanied with the spirit and resolution of our countrymen, would render our country impregnable.

The second course of measures, which he said had also been adopted, was extending our military preparations, and carrying our force beyond our own jurisdiction, on the main ocean, to defend our commerce by convoys, and to seek for and capture French privateers. On these the House had not been unanimous; they had appeared to be founded on more questionable policy; but, as the laws were passed, they would not only be cheerfully submitted to, but as vigorously supported as the others; it was now his duty to hope and expect that they would do more good than harm.

The third and last course of measures, was presented to our consideration by the present motion, to put the country immediately into an actual state of war. He must say he had been surprised to hear it; he thought it very ill-timed; he must express upon it his utter disapprobation. As had been already stated, the last official information from our Envoys, showed that our negotiations were still going on; and though the French Minister still insisted on a compulsory loan, which our Ministers justly declared to be a very inadmissible condition; yet, it ought to be noticed in the despatches that, when he was asked by Mr. Gerry, if they were to consider him as insisting on a loan as an ultimatum, he avoided the question, which gives reason to believe that, as things then stood, a loan or war was not an absolute inevitable alternative; it was such an alternative as he was not disposed to take, so long as it was avoidable. Though our situation has been, in many respects, bad for the year past, yet in a state of actual war it will be much worse. He never turned his attention to the part of the country where he lived, but that he felt himself compelled, by every principle of duty to those whom he represented, to address and to urge every consideration to avoid going to that extreme. They have been once almost totally destroyed by war; they know, from their distance and from past experience, that prompt and adequate protection never will be extended to them. He believed no honest man, deliberating merely for the public good, could take a view of the affairs of this country, of his own home, and of his friends, and think of going into a state of war, if it is possible to avoid it.

Mr. Dana hoped the gentleman from Georgia did not want to inquire of his constituents whether they would consent to a treaty with France, in which we shall bind ourselves to pay a tribute. He trusted if that gentleman's constituents were thus to instruct him, he would refuse to obey their instructions. He hoped no member of this House could be prevailed with to set his hand to what would prove the death-warrant to the liberties of the country. Mr. D. thought, therefore, that no instructions were necessary on this subject; it is not a subject proper for deliberation in the American Congress, and no other terms of accommodation had been held out to us by that country. Does not Mr. Talleyrand, said Mr. D., complain of the Farewell Address of General Washington, and of the Speeches of Mr. Adams, and say that, before any treaty can be entered upon with us, some proof of our friendly disposition must be shown towards them, and that proof, he more than insinuates, must be a loan, or a tribute to the extent of our capacity to pay? If the despatches do not mean this, he did not know what they mean; and when Mr. Talleyrand was asked whether this was the ultimatum of the French Government, though he does not answer in direct terms, it is clearly implied that it is so.

What, then, said Mr. D., are our hopes relative to France? Does any body expect any thing from the terrible generosity of the Great Nation? Can we expect any thing from their justice, or, rather, have we not every thing to expect from their vengeance, if not prepared to meet it? Why do gentlemen tell the House of the danger of irritating France? He thought delicacy of this kind unnecessary, when speaking of a nation which has set at defiance every moral principle, which has taken and is determined to take our vessels, contrary to every principle of right. For himself, he felt no such delicacy; and, therefore, he was in favor of referring the resolutions under consideration. He did not think them so notoriously wrong that they are not fit subjects for deliberation.

Mr. J. Williams wished to say a few words in reply to the remark which had been made, that members who voted for the reference of resolutions, generally vote for the resolution itself. He believed he could produce twenty instances to the contrary, where references had been made, and the measures themselves afterwards have been disagreed to. He should give his vote in favor of the committal, because he wished to see the principles of these resolutions detailed; but he by no means pledged himself to vote for the passage of the bill.

The gentleman from Kentucky had spoken of two parties in this country, but that the decision upon a resolution of this morning proved that there is now a third party. He supposed the gentleman who had made the motion alluded to would have given some reasons why it ought to be agreed to; but not having done that, he voted against it.

[The Speaker reminded Mr. W. of the question.]

He then observed in reply to the remark of the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. R. Williams) with respect to treaties, that it was clear from the writers on the laws of nations, that when one nation breaks a treaty, it is no longer obligatory on the other party. But treaties are nowadays done away, and power substituted in their place.

According to the opinion which gentlemen had themselves expressed, Congress had already agreed to form different measures, which would involve the country in war. If the present bill was passed (and he doubted not it would be) it will be the fifth, though the gentleman from Pennsylvania has said that this reference will give the Committee for the Protection of Commerce and the Defence of the Country no new power, and of course, in his opinion, it could make no difference whether these resolutions are referred or not.

The yeas and nays were taken, and the question was negatived—42 to 41, as follows: