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"The power of the less powerful begins with honesty."

Canadian PM Mark Carney speaks at Davos
Full text reproduction of the speech can be found here CBC is calling the speech "provocative". Significant quotes: "We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false. That the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient. That trade rules were enforced asymmetrically. And that international law applied with varying rigour depending on the identity of the accused or the victim." "On Arctic sovereignty, we stand firmly with Greenland and Denmark and fully support their unique right to determine Greenland's future." "When we only negotiate bilaterally with a hegemon, we negotiate from weakness. We accept what is offered. We compete with each other to be the most accommodating. This is not sovereignty. It is the performance of sovereignty while accepting subordination." "Canada has something else: a recognition of what is happening and a determination to act accordingly. We understand that this rupture calls for more than adaptation. It calls for honesty about the world as it is."
posted by mrjohnmuller on Jan 20, 2026 at 9:00 AM

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Ooo glad to see this here. Carney's not a great speaker, but it's a great speech.

This should provide some clarity to those wondering why there's been no big deal with the Americans to date (I'm looking at you PP).
posted by mazola at 9:16 AM

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When the rules no longer protect you, you must protect yourself. But let us be clear-eyed about where this leads. A world of fortresses will be poorer, more fragile, and less sustainable.

This is not an inevitability, but it is beginning to become one - a thing with its own momentum, propelled by narcissism, mental illness, global realities, and/or simple villainy.

As Carney notes, perhaps there is an alternative to simply building higher walls. It just won't really involve the United States of America, and it will exist in its threatening shadow. And, I fear, it won't rise to the occasion when faced with the challenges that the USA brings to the 21st century - including, at best, our refusal to engage with the fracturing world as it is.
posted by ellF at 9:17 AM

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So what is it, Mark? A who-can-score-the-most-bucks competitive oligopoly run by child rapists hidden behind layers of corrupted justice systems, untouchable by anything except bunker-busting nuclear weapons? If you're going to call it what it is, just fucking do it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:18 AM

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It's heartening to see the number of leaders in the EU and Canada that seem to see the situation for what it is. I hope it lasts.
posted by tclark at 9:31 AM

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I've seen lots of speeches from PM's. It's absolutely the most confrontational I've seen in many years, certainly since 9/11.
posted by zenon at 9:38 AM

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It's a good speech. Carney said a lot of good things before he was elected too, but when the US kidnapped the president of a sovereign nation his statement was more less 'We always hated that guy and it's good that he got got, and also it's important to follow international law' so I'm not sure I buy him about 'living in truth.'
posted by rodlymight at 9:54 AM

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'We always hated that guy and it's good that he got got, and also it's important to follow international law'

Honestly, if the White House had gone to the UN after the Peace Prize award and laid out the case for regime change in the name of democracy, they probably would have gotten a green light. And yes, the irony of a Peace Prize facilitating military action is not lost on me.

Of course, that didn't happen because the cause is not democracy, but installing a more submissive negotiator for oil rights.
posted by pwnguin at 10:07 AM

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I feel like in that speech Carney was pretty clear about how Canada has been complicit in the hypocrisy of the US hegemonic order, "going along to get along", "putting up the sign" etc. Calling it a "useful fiction" in order to secure a net benefit for Canada. This speech was a declaration that we no longer intend to do that, and an encouragement for other middle powers to follow. It will be very interesting to see how the Canadian posture towards the US changes after today. If this speech isn't backed up with action, it's gonna really boost cynicism.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 10:10 AM

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mrjohnmuller: "If this speech isn't backed up with action, it's gonna really boost cynicism."

the speech also lays out a lot of things Canada has already done or is planning to do, to wit:

We are engaging broadly, strategically, with open eyes. We actively take on the world as it is, not wait for the world as we wish it to be. Canada is calibrating our relationships, so their depth reflects our values. We are prioritising broad engagement to maximise our influence, given the fluidity of the world, the risks that this poses, and the stakes for what comes next. We are no longer relying on just the strength of our values, but also on the value of our strength.

We are building that strength at home. Since my government took office, we have cut taxes on incomes, capital gains and business investment, we have removed all federal barriers to interprovincial trade, and we are fast-tracking a trillion dollars of investment in energy, AI, critical minerals, new trade corridors, and beyond. We are doubling our defence spending by 2030 and are doing so in ways that builds our domestic industries.

We are rapidly diversifying abroad. We have agreed a comprehensive strategic partnership with the European Union, including joining SAFE, Europe's defence procurement arrangements. We have signed twelve other trade and security deals on four continents in the last six months. In the past few days, we have concluded new strategic partnerships with China and Qatar. We are negotiating free trade pacts with India, ASEAN, Thailand, Philippines, Mercosur.

To help solve global problems, we are pursuing variable geometry— different coalitions for different issues, based on values and interests. On Ukraine, we are a core member of the Coalition of the Willing and one of the largest per-capita contributors to its defence and security. On Arctic sovereignty, we stand firmly with Greenland and Denmark and fully support their unique right to determine Greenland's future.

Our commitment to Article 5 is unwavering. We are working with our NATO allies (including the Nordic Baltic 8) to further secure the alliance's northern and western flanks, including through unprecedented investments in over-the-horizon radar, submarines, aircraft, and boots on the ground.

On plurilateral trade, we are championing efforts to build a bridge between the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the European Union, creating a new trading block of 1.5 billion people. On critical minerals, we are forming buyer's clubs anchored in the G7 so that the world can diversify away from concentrated supply. On AI, we are cooperating with like-minded democracies to ensure we will not ultimately be forced to choose between hegemons and hyperscalers.

posted by chavenet at 10:15 AM

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I agree that it is a good speech, even if it contains entire paragraphs of the same kind of "everything's great in Canada" whitewashing that he wants to dissuade people from using about this New World Order.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:16 AM

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I wonder what the Canadian government is doing about the maple MAGA movement and particularly the problematic relationship between Alberta's government and Trump. Recognizing Canada's role in furthering hegemony via international trade is one thing, but a large part of why NATO countries are here is because of growing domestic support for — and tolerance for — right-wing extremism in these countries.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:24 AM

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BTW, I call dibs on "Hegemons & Hyperscalers" for a new RPG name
posted by chavenet at 10:25 AM

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A world of fortresses will be poorer, more fragile, and less sustainable.

In other words, the Dark Forest on a planetary scale rather than an interstellar one. And how long, one wonders, will the "fear of the Other" rise to the point where global annihilation is the inevitable outcome?
posted by SPrintF at 10:27 AM

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I wonder what the Canadian government is doing about the maple MAGA movement and particularly the problematic relationship between Alberta's government and Trump. Recognizing Canada's role in furthering hegemony via international trade is one thing, but a large part of why NATO countries are here is because of growing domestic support for — and tolerance for — right-wing extremism in these countries.

Following from this, I happen to know several former members of the Canadian armed forces and RCMP, and right wing extremism is a very significant problem. Very significant. I was in a recent discussion on defence against possible American incursions with a couple of people including one of these vets. He simply said, "what makes you think large sections of the Canadian Forces wouldn't immediately refuse to defend the country against an incursion?" Part of it is a little defensible in that the CF are so woefully underarmed and understaffed it's a national disgrace, and I can't blame anyone for refusing to get absolutely steamrolled. But the other aspect is that there is probably more sympathy for Trump and the US armed forces in the CF than Canadians realize. But I rarely see this aspect discussed.
posted by fortitude25 at 10:39 AM

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I wonder what the Canadian government is doing about the maple MAGA movement and particularly the problematic relationship between Alberta's government and Trump

To my estimation, this has been quietly central to the Carney strategy. The Alberta MOU. The China trip with Scott Moe. Carney has repeatedly engineered situations in which western Conservative premiers are at odds with worst elements of their base, and with the federal conservative leader. I think he has correctly identified that the biggest political faultline in Canada currently exists within the Conservative Party (Reform vs "Progressive Conservative"), and he is working to defang the separatists and seditionists by isolating them from other elements in the Conservative ecosystem. Time will tell if it's effective.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 10:40 AM

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The United States cannot be a great country with a corrupt government run by grifters and morons.

Everyone seems to see that except us.
posted by chasing at 11:08 AM

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What if we made Alberta North Texas and Minnesota South Manitoba? Still have the same number of states and provinces.

Sorry, sorry, I'm feeling a little punchy these days.....
posted by zenzenobia at 11:11 AM

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Albertan here. No deal.
posted by mazola at 11:12 AM

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"This is not naive multilateralism. Nor is it relying on diminished institutions. It is building the coalitions that work, issue by issue, with partners who share enough common ground to act together. Middle powers must act together because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu," Carney said.

He's kind of throwing down the gauntlet, here and throughout his speech.

I don't think that he's saying "everything's great in Canada." He's saying that Canada is reacting and that there's strenght in numbers - big difference.

It's a powerful speech and considering the venue that it happened in, surprisingly clear in voice and intent.
posted by ashbury at 11:17 AM

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Live blog [The Guardian]
Trump says he's soon going to a "beautiful place in Switzerland", adding:

"I'm sure I'm very happily awaited for."
posted by mazola at 11:17 AM

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Fair enough. (I actually don't plan to emigrate from the US since it's, uh, my home and I care about it.)
posted by zenzenobia at 11:19 AM

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Trump says he's soon going to a "beautiful place in Switzerland", adding:

aren't they way ahead of the rest of the world with medically assisted dying?
posted by philip-random at 11:45 AM

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Dignitas. One can only hope.
posted by Grangousier at 11:55 AM

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Indignitas
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:59 AM

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I wonder where they're at internally, if he's saying this in the open now, that's probably how they've been talking for a good amount of time.

Carney is not really my guy, but am I glad we've got him over PP, we really dodged a bullet there.

This should provide some clarity to those wondering why there's been no big deal with the Americans to date

Lots of Canadian political analysts were saying recently that all the recent about faces from Trump make Carney's internal situation easier. He was underdelivering on the promise to have a deal with the US but it's also being made very clear that any such deal is wort fuck all under the current administration, so why even bother?

It's going to be a shitshow for the CUSMA review, but at this point, I'm not sure there was any way to avoid it beyond pure surrender.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:04 PM

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As a US citizen I no longer want to see the USA as a hegemonic power in the world, but this speech was deeply troubling to me.

Carney seems to be talking about how Canada, and other "mid powers" can recreate a capitalistic/military industrial complex without the USA.

This is not going to build a better world, but instead just swap out the leaders of the current one. I don't blame these countries for freaking out because America has lost its mind, but its clear that capitalism and endless economic growth is not going to serve us in the long run.

Carney speaks like a true believer in the market, a true believer in capitalism, and also (thankfully) seems to still believe in diplomacy, and a peaceful world order...kinda.

This is a very complicated speech, but its clear what he is saying is "lets keep things the way they are, but instead of just one or two great powers, we can create a big coalition of small powers"

I think that even if Carney's vision of the future plays out exactly the way he wants we will still destroy this planet with run away capitalism...but perhaps his plan can be a stepping stone toward the next thing.

Because right now we need to avoid another world war (a potentially nuclear world war). He also is clear that the old way is broken and that its time to build something new.

I hope everyone internalizes that the old order is broken, and perhaps adds a little English to carneys plan in order to make it a lot better than the one he laid out.
posted by stilgar at 12:20 PM

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I got the vibe that it's uncharted territory and he realizes that. In the near term, in the reality of Great Powers/Goliaths wanting to dominate, banding together with mid-powers makes sense.

If the speech is troubling, it's kind of because the world is troubling right now.
posted by mazola at 12:27 PM

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It's going to be a shitshow for the CUSMA review, but at this point, I'm not sure there was any way to avoid it beyond pure surrender.

I suspect that if things continue on the current trajectory, the CUSMA review won't happen, because there will be a ban on all trade with the US as a consequence of the ongoing war. Or who knows, maybe not. The point is it doesn't matter. Under Trump, the former US is a totally unpredictable variable. Zero willingness to adhere to commitments, zero ideological consistency beyond pure animal dominance. We need to stop thinking that trade deals with the US are possible, or even preferable. We all need to figure out how to trade around America until the regime falls, and then for maybe 5 or 6 generations afterwards.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:28 PM

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Hell of a speech. I hate what he's doing domestically, but Carney seems to shine internationally.
posted by Dalekdad at 12:48 PM

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Dealing with the USA as Canada is a matter of delay and distract. USA isn't keeping agreements, so the terms actually negotiated are meaningless beyond the extremely short term.

So instead of negotiating an agreement, the goal needs to be to delay harm. In this delay, decouple and reorient and fortify.

Economic entanglement is being used as a weapon by the USA; every new market found for Canadian goods is that much less harm the USA can cause and weakens the USA's economic weaponry. So instead of working on the US-Canada trade agreement, work on those agreements, because they aren't mayflies. Buy cars from China and sell them grains, for example. Buy and sell weapons with the EU. Etc.

The harm the USA can do economically via trade chaos can thus be reduced week after week, month after month.

Next, because the USA could easily invade, building up defence agreements. The joint defence of Greenland is a great stepping stone to this; having EU and Canadian troops there. Then we can offer a base on Newfoundland that the EU can use for resupply (initially), then station a larger force for staging purposes... and eventually have EU troops in Canada for training purposes regularly.

All to deter violent invasion.

A more likely source of US invasion of Canada is a little-green-men proxy independence force in Alberta, like what Moscow did in the Donbas. This is harder to solve; the trans-mountain pipeline and the grain deal with China can help undermine the base, together with the USA not wanting to buy as much Alberta crude thanks the their South American conquests. But going after the maple MAGA is a big part of the solution.

Adding a 3x size "militia" to the Canadian armed forces is also important here; this militia should be built to be "weekend warrior" friendly, and aim at recruiting non-Maple-MAGA members. Having distributed armories and trained Civilians was highly useful in Ukraine's resistance against Moscow's most recent mass invasion.

It being activated regularly to deal with natural disasters is also a good idea. Gives them spirit and a purpose and makes people proud of being a member, plus keeps it functional and exercises the system.
posted by NotAYakk at 12:55 PM

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stilgar: "Carney speaks like a true believer in the market, a true believer in capitalism, and also (thankfully) seems to still believe in diplomacy, and a peaceful world order...kinda."

Carney is a bankster and his only true constituency is other rich people. He is marginally better than Poilievre, whose only true constituency is rich Nazis, but he is a neoliberal through and through and is ultimately just going to reinforce all the same systems that are currently giving us global fascism.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:56 PM

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man, I must really be evolving politically, because I used to be all about edgy leftist takes like that and now they just annoy the shit out of me
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:58 PM

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zenzenobia: "What if we made Alberta North Texas and Minnesota South Manitoba? Still have the same number of states and provinces."

The indigenous people on the land that got stolen to create "Alberta" are extremely uninterested in secession and they have treaty rights.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:01 PM

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After having read it fully.... I thought it was very honest in a way, its calls the US for what it is and also call outs a bit of our hypocrisy in profiting from the less honorable things they do, which I think people here should appreciate.

Unfortunately the fact we still have a bunch of hegemonic powers with militaries strong enough to do considerable damage to other countries is kinda forcing everybody's hand into strengthening themselves.

In the case of Canada, there's no way to build ourselves strong enough to repeal a US invasion.... but making it less of a cakewalk, can maybe tamper the enthusiasm of a certain deranged Orange buffoon?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:01 PM

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Back in the days of Usenet, there was an alternate history discussion forum that spawned some wild ideas. One of them was "What if Nazi Germany had invaded Canada by marching across the North Pole and then southwards?" Canadians on the forum had to explain about black flies, the implacable defenders that keep the True North strong and ... ow! ow! goddammit! stop biting me! get off!!
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 1:18 PM

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I used to be all about edgy leftist takes like that

As was I - and now we see (well, not all choose to see) how that maximalism has been weaponized to poison resistance to global empire.
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:18 PM

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Carney is a bankster and his only true constituency is other rich people.

Came to say this in response to the same comment it was said in response to. I know there are a lot of people who truly love Carney, but I think a good number of people also voted for him as the least worst option -- I know a disproportionate number of people who joined the Liberal party just to vote for him in the leadership race and then promptly asked their membership to be cancelled.

He's to the left of PP only in the sense that he is not an alt-right ghoul catering to fascist wannabes. He's still a right-winger, just in the Progressive Conservative tradition rather than what modern conservatism has turned into.
posted by asnider at 1:25 PM

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Since my government took office, we have cut taxes on incomes, capital gains and business investment

Everything else sounds good, but this... [sigh]

Because when you may be on the verge of war it's the right time to cut taxes, right? So that only the already-poor suffer?
posted by clawsoon at 1:46 PM

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Carney is a bankster and his only true constituency is other rich people.
Came to say this in response to the same comment it was said in response to.
I think you outline his bias correctly but I think he should be credited with at least correctly articulating the problem and responding in a way that is concrete and actionable (if limited by his own imagination). I'm open to lefty ideas. Pitch 'em!
posted by mazola at 1:47 PM

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What was that Churchill quote? In times like these I'd even ally with Satan, something like that? Perhaps in times like these I'd even ally with a neoliberal like Carney, if fascist takeover is the other option.
posted by clawsoon at 2:03 PM

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A massive difference between Carney and Poilievere, even though I understand them as both being right wing to differing degrees, is the fact that Pierre is up to eyeballs in the fascistic International Democracy Union(IDU). It's a global organization of right wing leaders and political parties that has leaned further right, into authoritarianism, under its current chairman, the odious former PM of Canada, Stephen Harper.
Poilievre is listed as Chairman of Canada.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 2:05 PM

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Saying Poilievre and Carney are basically the same is like say there has been no change in the US in the last two years. There is no way a PP win would have been better for Canadians. Sure Carney is a lesser evil but that still means less evil. People won't be agitating for change to the capitalist system if they are chilling in a concentration camp.

The Chinese EV tariff deal is a pretty strong signal that Carney has shifted perspective. The US has strongly signalled that Canada can't protect their domestic automobile manufacturing industry. Better to try to build the future than fight a losing war of capriciousness and attrition. Rejection of the 100% US tariff is going to be a winner even if we build less Rams or whatever.
posted by Mitheral at 2:12 PM

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Mitheral: "Saying Poilievre and Carney are basically the same is like say there has been no change in the US in the last two years."

I agree, and i said so. "He is marginally better than Poilievre".
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:24 PM

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As a matter of style and interpretation, to me "marginally better" is "basically the same", but I ain't trying to policy nobody so I hope that's taken in the uselessly pedantic way that it's intended.
posted by clawsoon at 2:29 PM

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The whole thing about lesser evils is...I am largely not evil, I suspect most of us have a bare smattering of evil happening, so why is it that political parties just can't seem to run candidates who are little to no evil? Like, why do we have to settle for, "I guess he's not that evil, I heard of a baby-eating guy, that's real evil, this person just hates poor people and thinks the solution to society's ills is to take the poors' house away and give it to rich people, that sucks but who can say how wrong it is, poor people can't afford to paint their houses you know and we all have to look at that, anyway it's not baby eating!!" I guess I just can't understand why better things aren't possible.

This is a good speech; as an American, the idea of a major leader saying something this plain and cogent and bold and actually intelligent is impossible to imagine. I am sorry it took America sucking ass to make this speech necessary.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:39 PM

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Yeah I'm not sure I like the 'lesser evil' framing unless one actually is comparing degrees of evilness.

I disagree with Carney on policy, but I don't think he's evil.
posted by mazola at 2:46 PM

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Carney is not my guy and will never be my guy. But I appreciate that he is uniquely, ridiculously qualified to meet this moment for Canada. This speech just reaffirms that -- he has a solid analysis of the situation, and slid in some good salesmanship at the end. And it's so good to hear a PM speak in a longform, educated way. I've missed that.
posted by Capt. Renault at 3:26 PM

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The description I have heard used "the donut economy" - the US being the hole in the middle, and everyone making various arrangements that avoid the hole.

Canada has been at the forefront of many economic developments. It was the first country that allowed its currency to float and removed all currency controls. Good to see that Carney is getting ready to lead the charge.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:02 PM

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Carney is not my guy and will never be my guy. But I appreciate that he is uniquely, ridiculously qualified to meet this moment for Canada. This speech just reaffirms that -- he has a solid analysis of the situation, and slid in some good salesmanship at the end. And it's so good to hear a PM speak in a longform, educated way. I've missed that.

Hard same. I've been trying to keep an eye on the NDP leadership race because I really really want us to have a left party again. (When I say "again", I mean official representation in Parliament.)
posted by Kitteh at 4:09 PM

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The US has strongly signalled that Canada can't protect their domestic automobile manufacturing industry.

"Only seven percent support continued subsidies for the Detroit Three (GM, Ford, and Stellantis). Instead, 37% want funding directed toward Canada's auto parts supply industry, and 58% support diversification into defence manufacturing as a way to protect jobs and build resilience.
"People want long-term strategy, not short-term patches," says Power.
"Canadians are calling for strategic investments that safeguard manufacturing jobs while strengthening the foundation for the entire automotive ecosystem."

I would like to feel that a rational american would be a little more angry, more ashamed as embarrassment is part of foreign policy apology phase. But I read it as someone in michigan. The lumber alone I've seen on trains while stopped at crossing would build a small city. The return cars carry chassis.
What will happen is that if the U.S. occupies Greenland, Canada could cut the rail, bridges and pipelines and cancel lucrative trash empire deals. Restrict pharmaceuticals, it goes on.
So, it sounds like a polite way to say to trump, we can fuck you up.
posted by clavdivs at 4:29 PM

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Ah, no, not true. Canada can cause some damage but Canada can't fuck up the U.S. the U.S. is too big, too aggressive, too economically overwhelming for pretty much any country in the world to do any serious damage. But if all those middle power countries band together they can hold their own and perhaps even prosper.

Carney is very clear-eyed about the future and while I wish that his way of thinking isn't necessary, it 100% is necessary. PP as PM would have been disastrous and Carney is very far from the lesser of two evils.
posted by ashbury at 4:45 PM

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Yeah, I wish, but if we literally burned the bridges it would cause some damage to the US economy and destroy Canada utterly. Pursuing diversification of trade is a great idea and necessary but the US is right there, and it's the only place that's right there.
posted by rodlymight at 4:57 PM

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Wow tough crowd. I'm as gay-space-communism as the next person here, and I'm still pretty happy enough to have our particular Banker-Dad dude thread the needle in interesting times for Canada, even though I didn't love that last federal budget. Any comparison to PP is pretty wide fuckin span.

(if it comes down to an actual sci-fi incursion, two things will happen: 1) we won't completely be able to keep them out; 2) but occupation won't be worth their troubles...)
posted by ovvl at 5:20 PM

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The Beaverton: Emboldened Mark Carney delivers encore WEF speech about TFSA planning
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:37 PM

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'Best speech by a world leader ... in a very long time': Carney's Davos address draws global attention [CTV News]
posted by mazola at 5:40 PM

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In regards to Poilievre, I'm inclined to agree with Mary Ellen Carter, in one of the previous threads, when they called PP:
"an empty vessel into which all the far-right weirdos can pour their wishcasts into and say "see, this is what he is". There's no there there"


PP is career politician homunculus happily willing to offer a zinger rather then a solution, parroting whatever rhetoric gets a minute of airtime. Carney is a banker, a Red Tory, a Davos Man, an agent of the neoliberal agenda, a man of wealth... I more or less know where he stands as a person. Where he stands as our prime minister? As he outlined in the speech, is that peace is better than war, order is better than chaos, multilateralism is better than isolationism. And I am ok with that. I'd love to have our myriad of problems fixed, I would love for a strong global leftist movement with a concrete vision of the future to exist, I'd love for the Canadian Left to get their shit together but until those things happen all I got is a rich guy who wants less chaos & more success in the world and Canada, who rightly sees Trump as a threat to the stability of the world and not just the neoliberal project.

That's worth something.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:56 PM

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It's pretty wild to live in a time that my undergraduate International Relations classes treated as a hypothetical. Seemed like hegemonic stability theory was dominant at the time. Now I guess the balance of power people are having their day. Hegemons are inevitably counterbalanced by a constellation of rival powers when they weaken (or in this case self-immolate).

Carney is clearly saying the future of any rules-based order is dependent on a new set of international relationships that works around the US, and seems to actively be taking steps to instigate such an alliance. His reference to Finnish president Stubb (who is also a prolific public intellectual in the European foreign policy sphere) is significant.
posted by Wretch729 at 6:04 PM

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Meant to say liberal order not rules-based order above by the way. Kind of splitting hairs but truer to his point I think.
posted by Wretch729 at 6:35 PM

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Canada can cause some damage but Canada can't fuck up the U.S.

Economically, by itself, not a chance in hell.
I'm listening to the wider Clarion call.
This tension could easily turn skirmish.
Think Canadian Bacon.
So tactically, Canada could blow one pipeline and fuck up michigans inlet water ways. But thats silly. how about calling in 350 bilion in debt, can't do that too easy.
The biggest fucked up thing is escalating tension on a social level.
posted by clavdivs at 6:56 PM

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Did a better job than The Belgian Prime Minister, Bart De Wever,"Being a happy vassal is one thing. Being an unhappy slave is quite another"
But I guess Belgians know a thing or two about unhappy slaves.
posted by Iax at 7:27 PM

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> the case of Canada, there's no way to build ourselves strong enough to repeal a US invasion...

A MAD deterrent is within the industrial and scientific capabilities of Canada. Yes, this means building enough weapons to burn the continent to the ground.

Canada could build one in mere months, if they haven't already started. Hydrogen would take a bit longer, but Canada has plenty of tritium.

Canada could build weapons to stop a US invasion.

US threats are something Americans might want to fix ASAP. For your own sake.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:52 PM

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Five months away, from what I understand. Whether those five months could pass unnoticed..?
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:23 PM

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Oh God, if it comes to "evil" Pollievre and Carney aren't even on the same spectrum.

PP famously stood with the Clown Convoy (the Truckers and assorted anti-vaxxers who blockaded downtown Ottawa). He promoted crypto as a viable financing option for the government. And also wanted to end the independence of the governor of the Bank of Canada (sound familiar?).
posted by storybored at 9:26 PM

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Equating Carney and PP is gross and betrays great ignorance (of course he's not perfect, but everything considered probably better than you could realistically hope for), but the first commenter to say that here has a history of making inflammatory statements.
posted by blue shadows at 10:09 PM

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Equating Carney and PP is gross

It's also a stupid notion and we don't need to entertain that nonsense here any further.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:46 PM

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I did not "equate" them. I specifically said that Carney is better! But he's still a shithead bankster who, like every other bankster and finance guy, only cares about rich people!
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:15 AM

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My thought when Carney was elected was, "Bankers got us into this mess. Now let's see if one of them can get us out of it."

I wasn't thinking "get the whole world out of this mess", but looks like we'll see about that, too.
posted by clawsoon at 3:11 AM

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I did not "equate" them. I specifically said that Carney is better! But he's still a shithead bankster who, like every other bankster and finance guy, only cares about rich people!

It's kinda like how I depend on the Economist and Financial Times these days for a fairly objective/accurate assessment of regional politics from all over the world rather than NYT or WSJ because their only polemics is really about resource extraction and doing it effectively, which needs a functioning world order. That's the only clear-eyed folks left at that level of statecraft because everyone else is captured by ideology that's left them unprepared. I think it's extremely relevant that Carney is a former central banker rather than an ex-military or NATO guy.

Anyway, it's not like leaders from Latin America, Africa, and Asia haven't been saying as much in warning especially in the last 2-3 years when one international institution after another got shaky (not just because of Israel, but also as the war with Russia kept going at Ukraine's expense, and the half-assed Asia Pacific strategy, that's now left the Philippines and Taiwan hung out to dry. But they're not Greenland).
posted by cendawanita at 4:00 AM

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A non-Substack source (GlobalNews.ca) for the full transcript of Carney's speech to the World Economic Forum.

Carney refers to "The Power of the Powerless" by Václav Havel (context, full translated text I think).
posted by brainwane at 4:32 AM

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carney's a right wing political figure on par with poillevre and the fact that many here can't see it is summed up quite succinctly above

resource extraction and doing it effectively, which needs a functioning world order. That's the only clear-eyed folks left at that level of statecraft because everyone else is captured by ideology

as if resource extraction as raison d'être is ideology free
posted by tummy_rub at 6:12 AM

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if the White House had gone to the UN after the Peace Prize award and laid out the case for regime change in the name of democracy, they probably would have gotten a green light.

Trump doesn't want to get a green light because that would imply that the UN or the world community gets to have some sort of input into his actions. MAGA thinks checking in with your allies is cuck behavior.
posted by gauche at 6:13 AM

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as if resource extraction as raison d'être is ideology free

Of course not.
posted by cendawanita at 6:21 AM

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When I hear folks say that Carney is on par with Poilievre, all I see are flashbacks to before the US election when folks were saying that Harris and Trump had no real significant differences, and then I can't see anything at all because the red mist descends and I am blinded by all-consuming hatred once again.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:26 AM

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I find it's helpful to think of Carney as in line with Brian Mulroney - that's how far the Overton window has shifted.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:31 AM

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True, but I also don't think that Mulroney would have had the guts or the inclination to go up on the Davos stage and proclaim the end of US hegemony, and declaring it a "useful fiction". Like, I don't even think that a hypothetical PM Jagmeet Singh or PM Jack Layton would have done that, least of all to standing ovation and international acclaim. I honestly don't think that Mark Carney easily tracks onto the traditional understanding of Canadian left-right politics, which has definitely been an asset for him electorally. There's a reason he outpolls his own party, and has something like a 2:1 lead for preferred PM, even though preferred party is roughly tied. I mean, he wrote that speech! Can you imagine a modern career politician ever writing their own speech? Particularly one with that level of significance and exposure?
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:00 AM

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I didn't watch the Trump word-vomit at Davos, but it seems that the PM may have struck a nerve.

"Canada lives because of the United States", Trump said, "Remember that, Mark, the next time you make your statements."

So, another unabashed threat of war against a former ally. I have a feeling that the juxtaposition of these two speeches in terms of international reception will weigh heavily to the side of the Canadian thesis.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:25 AM

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This speech is definitely Canada putting its head above the parapet and knowing how volatile and idiotic the US administration is, this is not nothing. I think the country should be prepared for the blowback of it. Because he is a petty petty man, there will be consequences.
posted by Kitteh at 7:33 AM

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True, but I also don't think that Mulroney would have had the guts or the inclination to go up on the Davos stage and proclaim the end of US hegemony, and declaring it a "useful fiction".

That's definitely fair; I meant more policy-wise than style-wise.

Style and unique-wise - I think Carney has earned some arrogance and he has all his connections from running the Bank of Canada AND the Bank of England. (As well as the baggage and values stuff)...in terms of "get world economic shit done" the guy is lightning in a bottle for us. But I also think he is what he appears to be - a powerful, arrogant white banker guy.

I think if someone less actually competent at that stuff were PM our economy would be cratering instead of just tanking, just based on confidence and the provinces not working together and honestly...I'm grateful because I think Canada needs time, and if Carney can help keep all the investors and business leaders and small-medium-large business owners from losing their minds, and help sell canola and steel and all that stuff, that buys us some time. A desperate business community throwing themselves behind PP would have been a disaster.

Long-term for Canadian values I am not as convinced and wail into the void where is the actual old-school NDP? I tried to volunteer in the last provincial election and no one ever even got back to me despite having volunteered in previous although not super recent elections.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:52 AM

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This speech is definitely Canada putting its head above the parapet and knowing how volatile and idiotic the US administration is, this is not nothing. I think the country should be prepared for the blowback of it. Because he is a petty petty man, there will be consequences.

Agreed.

As the child of someone who has NPD, what I've learned is - you should try to keep your head down, but keeping your head down will not save you either, so I find it hard to blame Carney completely. I think he did calculate the risk (although we know he also just goes off sometimes; see also his way of dealing with the media) because he really believes we need to make all the deals with the other guys. But whether it's the right strategy? Who knows. With Trump? Who knows.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:54 AM

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I just told potential customers in the US that they should consider buying my clocks sooner rather than indefinitely because Trump probably going to do some tariff bullshit again. I'm glad in general for less dependence but most of my customers for everything I've sold have ever been from the US.

If he does fuck with the tariffs I'll probably just re-price my shit in Euros instead of USD because I doubt I'll ever get another US customer anyway.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:02 AM

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Europe is able to defend itself without the United States, Finnish President Alexander Stubb said at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland, on Wednesday.

"Can Europe defend itself? My answer is unequivocally yes," Stubb said, offering his views on how Nato might look like without US assistance.

Stubb pointed out to Finland's own military as an example. He asserted that Finland, together with Poland, has the biggest artillery in Europe, including long-range missiles for land, sea and air.

"Can the Finnish military defend itself against a Russian attack ... Yes," the president said. "We have the biggest military force of Arctic capabilities in the alliance. We have conscription. One million have done it. We can mobilise 280,000 soldiers within weeks. We have 62 F-18s."


Its been a long time coming but so glad he's waving the stick instead of steaming carrots in buttered sauce
posted by infini at 8:19 AM

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I did not "equate" them. I specifically said that Carney is better!

The word used was minimal. If you think there would only be a minimal difference if Polievre was office, I guess I dont know what to (politely) tell you.
posted by blue shadows at 8:54 AM

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'marginally better' sounds like a rounding error and I think that's what people were reacting to (well me, anyways).

It gives too much legitimacy to PP and that should be countered.
posted by mazola at 9:05 AM

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Going to keep buying Canadian maple syrup instead of other brands, to support the war effort (not really kidding).
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 9:39 AM

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o7   thank you for your support
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:43 AM

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Well hopefully he addresses (if not solves) some longstanding problem afflicting the working/middle classes before the anger/fear of the Trump threat depreciate (which it will). Biden had a few hits (Khan at the CFPB, the now much gutted infrastructure act) but in other ways was very status quo. And if the status quo sucks (like rent, housing prospects, childcare costs, etc) eventually it doesn't matter what the threat is unless it's fierce and imminent (can you count on Trump saying "51st State" every election?). Voters will shake the government like an etch-a-sketch and hope that someone willing to utilize power starts drawing with it. Carney doesn't need to be like Housing Stalin or anything but the lessons from 2020 to 2024 are extremely clear: get good or get got. Coast at your own peril.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:45 AM

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Canada could build one in mere months, if they haven't already started. Hydrogen would take a bit longer, but Canada has plenty of tritium.

An analyst and former CF captain says Canada has the capability to build nuclear weapons as a deterrent to Trump, but shouldn't, for various complicated and important reasons, like cost, deployment, international relations outside of the US, and what to do with Quebec and the ongoing question of separatism.

He does leave out the burgeoning right-wing seditionist movement at the highest levels of Alberta government and how internal nuclear security fits into that, but it still it is worth reading, especially in the context of Carney laying it all out. If we are to have the adult talk the world needs to have about how things have changed, Canada may need to consider all options carefully.

(Also, can we can the PP noise? He's so low-rent his party is now reseating his riding with the same guy he replaced when he couldn't get elected. Enough.)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:46 AM

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Lessons internationally from 2020-2024 that is.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:46 AM

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And if the status quo sucks (like rent, housing prospects, childcare costs, etc)

National rent averages have declined every month that Carney has been PM.

"Nationally, the housing starts total for all areas in Canada in 2025 was 259,028, the fifth highest annual total on record and up 5.6% compared to 2024 (245,367)"

"Nationally, expenses for children aged 0 to 5 attending centre-based child care full-time have continued to decrease from an average of $663 per month in 2022, to $508 in 2023 and to $435 in 2025"
posted by mrjohnmuller at 10:02 AM

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And that's great! But as Biden found out, and Harris after him, is that being meaningfully felt, correctly attributed, and will it alleviate some of the current stress/anxiety? Because if the answer to (any?) of those questions is "no", there is A Problem.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:28 AM

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A lot of the transcripts I've seen so far, including the Global News one linked above, don't include Carney's initial remarks in French. This is relevant as I find the French remarks a bit more direct than the English portion, he talks about "the beginning of a brutal reality where geopolitics among the great powers is not subject to any constraints.")

CBC has them here: Read Mark Carney's full speech on middle powers navigating a rapidly changing world.
posted by bayleaf at 10:35 AM

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> An analyst and former CF captain says Canada has the capability to build nuclear weapons as a deterrent to Trump, but shouldn't, for various complicated and important reasons, like cost, deployment, international relations outside of the US, and what to do with Quebec and the ongoing question of separatism.

His position, in the end, appears to be "Canada should surrender". Which is a position, I will agree.

And he appears to be pretending that the previous era of international relations still exists.

Empires aren't things. Empires are driven by domestic politics. Sometimes Empires have domestic power bases that care about Imperial strength, like the USA over the Cold War (petrified of Communist victory); but the USA no longer has such a strong domestic political power block. Instead, domestic power bases are converting their Empire into private benefit. Hence invasion of South Africa, Canada and Greenland, treating Ukraine as if it was a possible mining profit source, etc.

These aren't playing Imperial games. They are playing Kleptocratic games; American power is a tool they can use to earn themselves money and power, and if they don't use it it is worthless, so spend it now and cash in.

This analyst is acting like "Washington", the decades long pro-imperial block that cared about American Empire and worked to promote it, and had significant domestic strength, is a thing. But it is dead. Even if the current administration goes away.

So yes, this will lead to nuclear proliferation. But that genie is already out of the bag; the end of American Empire did it. I'd bet Japan and Taiwan are already building nukes.
posted by NotAYakk at 10:59 AM

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I haven't read the article yet, but the front page of yesterdays Globe and Mail was "Military models Canadian response to hypothetical American invasion", and it apparently describes how the CAF has been working on an asymmetric combat model that is highly influenced by the guerilla resistance to Russia, and later the US (and Canada), in Afghanistan. Canada is thinking IEDs, not nukes.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 11:12 AM

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Wake up babe a new heritage minute just dropped
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:20 AM

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Hopefully our military is thinking IEDs and nukes. And UAVs. And pretty much anything else that will give us an advantage in a future conflict.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:17 PM

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The response for us middle managers has to be "We've got thick skins and long memories, so we look forward to working with whomever represents USA when this unwell old man is gone."
posted by k3ninho at 1:36 PM

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"Canadian PM basically called out the hypernormalisation of the world hegemony : r/AdamCurtis," u/fightlinker, Reddit, 21 January 2026 [Via]
posted by ob1quixote at 3:48 PM

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What was that Churchill quote? In times like these I'd even ally with Satan, something like that?
If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.
posted by house-goblin at 4:18 PM

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The response for us middle managers has to be "We've got thick skins and long memories, so we look forward to working with whomever represents USA when this unwell old man is gone."

What? There is a rot at the heart of the US political system. Why do you think being a colluder with this system is "good"? The US has abused it's bully pulpit as being the "less evil" candidate for world leadership. Great. Let's aspire for BETTER not reversion to the old shit trod along meme that will ultimately get us back to where we are.

I understand this is in particular reference to EU Bureaucrats willing to "go along to get along" and hope the US keeps being "nice". The system does not work like that. It is built to placate an increasingly tiny percentage of a "mob". Until this system is destroyed/rebuilt/reformed whatever the hell it is, there is no sense int playing nice Dem or Republican. Because this can happen again and again and again, and Trump being gone will not change that.
posted by symbioid at 4:49 PM

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Canadian Indigenous (Métis) artist Christi Belcourt wrote about what was not said. (Facebook link, and I can't seem to copy the post text on my phone to paste it in here, so might not be viewable for everyone? I'll copy the post into the thread here when I'm on an actual computer, if no one else gets to it first.)
posted by eviemath at 6:14 PM

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From Eviemath's Facebook Link, Christi Belcourt's analysis of Carney's speech:


I listened to Carney's speech in full twice and read the transcript so that I could really get the "between the lines" part of what wasn't said, but what was implied.

I think of his speech in two parts.

Part 1 - the first half - he identifies and diagnoses what he thinks are the problems.
Part 2 - the second half - he identifies what he thinks are the solutions.

On the first half: for some people what he said came as a shock and was refreshing because finally a head of State is admitting what generations of people have seen for a long time - that the law, if applied at all, is applied unevenly and as long as countries receive favours and benefits, they are willing to turn a blind eye to it. He admitted Canada has been part of this. For those of us who pay attention, it was refreshingly frank. The people see what is going on and they are tired of being lied to to their faces.

There is a lot more to be said about this but I want to talk about the second half.

The second half of his speech is more revealing for what he is proposing as solutions.
Essentially he said the solution is to lean heavily into short term economic protections by going full force with resource extraction projects and making deals with countries outside the U.S. while turning a blind eye to human rights abuses.

In short his solution is not offering a vision to try to correct what he considers the problems, but to lean into it with protectionism, environmental degradation, erosion of Indigenous rights, and turning a blind eye to human rights abuses or environmental protections elsewhere.

He said this new reality means he would make deals with other countries and "we may not agree on everything" - translated: they may commit atrocities but for our own benefit, we won't say anything about it.

He said he would invest in new mining, AI, and defense, etc. As I've been posting about - I argue these are precisely the things that are going to make Canadians and Indigenous Peoples less safe and less protected over the long term. How? Because these critical minerals and AI are being used to fuel the military industrial complex. The U.S. who is the biggest threat to everyone's safety in the world is the primary customer. And even if they weren't, the resource extraction being done is for the companies producing and profiting from ever more destructive weaponary and the incarceration and detention of civilians.

Where exactly is this all going to end up - if you flood the world with weapons that are so destructive they could destroy the planet a hundred times over - if you produce more guns, more drones, more sound-cannons, more tanks, more lethal tech, more gear, more jails, more cages? Who exactly do you think is going to use these - and who are they using them on?

These minerals and "investment" feed the military industrial complex which are used by the US particularly not so much for 'defense' as they are for 'offense' - and not so much for either of those as they are for profit. Let's be real. There are billions and billions of dollars at stake. That is what is driving this.

The minerals being extracted in Canada are being used for weapons. The technology being developed is being used for the suppression of dissent. They will further entrench surveillance and further limit freedoms including freedom of movement. Corporations have usurped the will of the people.

I'm not seeing how this protects Canadians or Indigenous people long term - I'm talking seven generations from now long term and beyond.

I have a vision for the future many generations from now - a thousand years from now - that is a planet that is healthy, filled with animals, water is clean, communities live and thrive, the violence of these times hardly remembered, where children are protected from birth and all people and other beings are respected. I have a vision for the future where people constantly reach for higher goals that further entrench respect for all people and the planet.

That is what was missing from Carney's speech.

He does not see the solutions as reaching for these goals.

His solutions are economic. They are capitalist. They serve the corporatocracy. Same overlords. Same injustices. Same violence perpetrated on the people and the lands. Same game, different faces.

We won't get out of the problems that exist in the world by digging in deeper to what got us here in the first place.
I thought I would add this perspective so that people consider what wasn't said in his speech - and what perhaps really needed to be said instead.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:37 PM

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A MAD deterrent is within the industrial and scientific capabilities of Canada.

Yes, but credible deterrent is not possible because we can't credibly threaten the US with nuclear war. Imagine a Canadian PM threatening that if the Americans don't stay out of Windsor we'll kill everyone in Philadelphia. It's preposterous.

It is to our credit as a country and as human beings that no one would believe us if we threatened to kill hundreds of millions of people, children included.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:03 PM

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Adding one thing: the absolute worst case scenario is that we spend billions of dollars on a deterrent, an invader calls our bluff, to everyone's surprise the PM actually does push the button, the invader retaliates. This seems moderately plausible, and it's much worse for everyone than guerrilla warfare and nonviolent resistance.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:12 PM

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For all that and cri de cœur from such folks like the Belgians, and still Trump gets a (vague, preliminary) Greenland deal. And the Board of Peace: Canada's Mark Carney, who has repeatedly railed against Trump ripping up the global "rules-based order" and imposing punishing tariffs, intends to join with conditions, saying the details, including financial ones, were yet to be worked out.

Domestically, there is always nuance. The lesser evil is often very distinctly so. Foreign policy is remarkably coherent across administrations though (that will be due to the actually working bureaucracy).
posted by cendawanita at 1:06 AM

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NDP leadership candidate Avi Lewis offers his thoughts:

Carney's speech in Davos was a really interesting moment. It was a really smart speech. I think there's a way in which the loftiness kind of hit people. We haven't had a kind of grand spirit or loftiness in our politics in quite a long time, so I think that was a smart move.

The real relevance is that he named the moment which is that the rules are gone, they're shredded. The United States is stomping around the world in exercises of naked power and it's reconfiguring what countries like Canada need to do and I think all of that really did hit the mark.

The question is whether what he does is actually going to be informed by that. Because he's also, at the same time as he's saying these things, considering participating in Trump's Board of Peace initiative with Putin, with Netanyahu already at the table. Pay $1 billion for what? It's like a traveling Berlin Conference where they're gonna divide up the resources of the world where there are conflicts. What would Trump do with a body like that? Why is Carney even floating that?

Or the Golden Dome (which sounds dirty because it's weird and a dumb idea). Never gonna happen, you know?

I think there's a bit of daylight between Carney the statesman analyst that we saw at Davos and the way he's kind of elbows downed a lot of the negotiations with Trump.

Throwing out the digital services tax for nothing at all - AI is reshaping our world, Carney's all in. Evan Solomon, kind of minister of AI sales and marketing, you know they're all in on this. They're firing 40,000 civil servants, and what? People on social assistance are gonna deal with a chatbot? I mean, I think this is a disaster and we can't strengthen Canada and strengthen Canada's independence and our economy in austerity.

So there's all these contradictions in this moment and Canadians who voted against Trump, for protection from Trump, must be pretty confused.


On another but maybe similar note, there was someone on the radio this morning - didn't catch their name - who was talking about how we have to build the pipelines now because that's how we're going to pay for all of the defense commitments that we've made.
posted by clawsoon at 4:13 AM

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To many in South-east Asia, Carney's speech felt like a late arrival to a conversation the region has been having since the 1960s. Middle powers do not need permission to hedge. They need capacity.
posted by infini at 4:21 AM

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His solutions are economic. They are capitalist. They serve the corporatocracy. Same overlords. Same injustices.

I suppose I'd have more sympathy for an anti-capitalist theory on how to resist Trump if it came with any kind of details whatsoever for how it planned on achieving victory. Like, sorry guys! It's war. We're gonna need money, and weapons, and supply chains. I still haven't seen an alternative proposal to the Carney Doctrine that doesn't amount to total capitulation to Fascism.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:35 AM

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The neat thing about being a government with a currency is that you can print money. And then, here is the even better thing, you can spend it. So you can say something like "we're going to build a terawatt of solar power" and then you can just do it! And the really fun thing about a project like that is that because solar cells are cheap but labour isn't, most of that money that you created out of nothing gets rolled into your own economy in the form of paying skilled workers to grade the land, build the infrastructure, put up the solar, and run the power lines, and those workers buy food and housing, and it's like magic! Everyone benefits everywhere. And when the project is done, you can sell electricity and pay back the bonds or whatever. And you also get cheap electricity for your newly electrified economy. And unlike digging carbon out of the ground, you aren't poisoning the planet or enriching the oil companies.

[ record scratch ] oh, wait, that last bit quite the deal breaker. nevermind. so that's why i really hate carney, even tho he's the best chance we have right now.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:03 AM

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"Just print money" is not a strategy. That leads to inflation and currency devaluation, which in turn is fertile breeding ground for far-right reactionaries, as we saw in the states. "vote trump for cheap eggs, etc".

And exactly what good will solar panels or a green electrical grid be compared to bombs, tanks, drones, etc? We should absolutely build a national clean energy grid, and that plan is very much in the works, but we'd be fooling ourselves completely if we think that would be enough in itself to deter invasion.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:18 AM

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mrjohnmuller: We should absolutely build a national clean energy grid, and that plan is very much in the works, but we'd be fooling ourselves completely if we think that would be enough in itself to deter invasion.

It's a tricky area, self-sufficiency and doing enough to deter invasion. One of the weird thoughts I recall from late 2002/early 2003 was the invitation from France that Iraq might sell its oil in Euros, and that was an affront to US Dollar's status.
posted by k3ninho at 5:37 AM

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In Europe, energy produced from renewables exceeds that produced from fossil fuels

"This is terrible news Donnie, right after we captured all of Venezuela's gazililon gallons of oil... bring them to heel, boy..."
posted by infini at 6:17 AM

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I'm not going to be in favour of any pipeline that violates treaty rights, especially when so many First Nations reservations still don't have clean drinking water.

I can be glad Carney is currently in charge instead of PP, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize him. If you're saying we shouldn't, that's the sort of conviction that has led our Southern neighbours to the mess they are in.
posted by Kitteh at 6:26 AM

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Who said anything about a pipeline? There are no current proposals on the table to build one, and the PM has been clear that any hypothetical new pipeline can only be built with FN partnership. There is also no business case for a new pipeline given current and projected oil prices.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:35 AM

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There are no current proposals on the table to build one, and the PM has been clear that any hypothetical new pipeline can only be built with FN partnership.

Literally 30 seconds of web search turns up the following links which you seem to have missed:
Natural Resources Canada Energy Pipeline Projects
BC Energy Regulator list of Major Projects
"How 4 different expansions are planned for Canada's largest oil export pipeline system" (CBC, Nov. 15, 2025)
"'Incredible alignment': Canada is picking away at an oil and gas industry wish list" (The Narwhal, Jan. 20, 2026)

I certainly agree with you and with the MacLean's headline (also found in that under 30 seconds of web search) that Canada doesn't need a new pipeline, but someone sure as hell seems to be interested in building them. And if you think First Nations are being listened to any more now than in the past, maybe Trump could pass along "his" Nobel medal to Canada when he's done with it. Conservative provincial governments over on the Atlantic side of the country aren't even listening to white constituents about opposition to energy extraction projects. Nova Scotia premier Tim Houston is actively antagonizing Mi'kmaq communities as well as ignoring all opposition to his plans to re-open the province to fracking, with associated LNG pipeline infrastructure, and there has been no peep about it one way or the other from the federal government, for example.
posted by eviemath at 6:59 AM

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None of it makes any sense other than as a means to more blatantly enrich oil oligarchs.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:03 AM

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Literally 30 seconds of web search turns up the following links which you seem to have missed:

All of those links are industry wish lists and speculative pipe dreams, not actual proposals currently being considered. Fanfiction.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:08 AM

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Maybe don't make false claims and ignore facts after celebrating PM Carney's speech about honesty in politics, hmm?

From link #1, which is a federal government list of the status of projects that they have received actual industry proposals for:
"Line 3 Replacement Project

The Government has approved the project, subject to 37 binding conditions to ensure the pipeline is built and operated in a way that is safe for Canadians and the environment"

"Towerbirch Expansion Project

The Government has approved the project, subject to 24 binding conditions that will help ensure the project operates safely."

Link #2, which is a similar page from the BC provincial government, lists 12 projects that all appear to be in various stages of approval or active consideration.
posted by eviemath at 7:19 AM

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I apologize, I should have been more specific. There are no current proposals for a bitumen pipeline to the BC northwest coast currently being considered, a la northern gateway, which is the big sticking point in terms of the tanker ban and coastal FN consultation.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:44 AM

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The chances of a new pipeline actually happening? Pretty slim - there are just too many variables that have to align perfectly for it to actually happen. More than anything that MOU on a pipeline was to placate Smith in Alberta and turn down the rhetoric while Carney got his ducks in a row elsewhere (EVs and Canola for instance). Smith is up for re-election next year, I believe, and she has a barrel of scandals hanging over her head so I'd say her chances are not good. I suspect Carney and/or his team are aware of that.

I'd love to see more of a moral transformation along with all this economic realism but I am gonna take it as a win that there is at least some recognition that the old order is dead, that (despite TACO) US coercion is real and that we need to align with our allies to deal with it for the sake of the world.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:12 AM

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And exactly what good will solar panels or a green electrical grid be compared to bombs, tanks, drones, etc? We should absolutely build a national clean energy grid, and that plan is very much in the works, but we'd be fooling ourselves completely if we think that would be enough in itself to deter invasion.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but, thinking strategically, it would make sense for the US to attack the Canadian power grid. And if that's a series of large power plants it makes for fewer targets to cause a major disruption.

But if instead, there are vast renewable sources of energy being employed across the country, now you have a bunch of comparatively tiny targets along with a fair bit of local generation if almost everyone has solar panels on their houses and apartment buildings. Wouldn't be enough to power homes in normal times but it would make it hard to leave people completely without power.
posted by VTX at 8:17 AM

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Throwing out the digital services tax for nothing at all - AI is reshaping our world, Carney's all in.

I don't think it was for nothing at all. It was to stretch out avoiding the worst of the tariff hoo-ha and I'm guessing there was a calculation done on the hit taken via digital services tax via hit from broad based tariffs. The play here is minimize damage while constructing more viable partnerships. Was that the right call? I guess that's debatable but I think it costs nothing to acknowledge the logic. The Digital Services Tax was a tactical loss, not sure it was a strategic one.

I'm an Avi fan but concretely what's the alternative that's being proposed?
posted by mazola at 8:30 AM

---------------------------

As for the Board of Peace, he doesn't seem 'all in' for giving a billion dollars to sit at the table, though he did state on the record that he was for money going to Palestinians [CBC]:
Asked Tuesday if Ottawa would be interested in a permanent seat, Carney said he's focused on providing cash directly to Palestinians in Gaza.

"We would write cheques and deliver in kind to improve the welfare of the people of Palestine, but we want to see it delivered direct," he said at the World Economic Forum.

A federal official earlier told CBC News that Canada has not been asked to pay at this time and would not do so.

"Canada wants money to have maximum impact," Carney told reporters on Sunday. "We still do not have unimpeded humanitarian aid flows at scale to the people of Gaza."
posted by mazola at 8:38 AM

---------------------------

I don't think it was for nothing at all.

I also think it was early enough in Carney's mandate & Trump 2.0 that the government may not have entirely known what they were facing and felt it was an easy sop to him to get him back to ignoring us and our Tories to settle down. Ultimately that move didn't help much. The extent of how much of a chaos machine he is this term is frightening and unpredictable, its hard to prepare for it. I hope cooler heads will prevail and we see either a digital services tax 2.0 or something worked into a new free trade agreement (if it doesn't get torn up by Trump which is something I think is increasingly likely).
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:53 AM

---------------------------

I don't know about an anti-capitalist theory on how to resist an American invasion. But a pro-capitalist theory would start by taxing the extremely rich. Billionaires and multi-millionaires manipulate the market, which corrupts efficient allocation of capital. Excess funds that would otherwise sit in tax havens can be invested in defence and social programs to create the kind of security that promotes human development and enterprise. Carney isn't taking these pro-capital measures.
posted by SnowRottie at 8:58 AM

---------------------------

"The 25th Amendment Isn't Going to Work," Charles P. Pierce, Esquire, 20 January 2026 [Archive]
posted by ob1quixote at 9:18 AM

---------------------------

From the link ob1quixote posted,

J Divan Vance.... well played.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:29 AM

---------------------------

k3ninho: The response for us middle managers has to be "We've got thick skins and long memories, so we look forward to working with whomever represents USA when this unwell old man is gone."

symbioid: What? There is a rot at the heart of the US political system. Why do you think being a colluder with this system is "good"? The US has abused it's bully pulpit as being the "less evil" candidate for world leadership. Great. Let's aspire for BETTER not reversion to the old shit trod along meme that will ultimately get us back to where we are.

With one hand on the goalposts and half a mind to move them, I meant to hit the age and infirmity of the current POTUS; he'll be gone soon. The message missed by your reading of my post is 'whoever wants to build what comes next after this phase of corruption, greed and oligarchy defeats itself, there are people outside your country waiting to partner with you'. I don't imagine for a second that the journey to international co-operation and respect will be easy and I share your aspiration for 'BETTER not reversion'.
posted by k3ninho at 9:30 AM

---------------------------

The PM is apparently speaking soon ahead of a cabinet retreat. Hosts on the CBC noted that it's being held in la Citadelle de Québec, a fortress built to withstand American invasion. So, make of that what you will, symbolically.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:57 AM

---------------------------

I'm usually directly on board with taxing the rich, but I can see the argument to make that attracting international capital is a way to build opposition to or at least fragment potential collaborators with American interests. Oligarchs and petit bourgeoisie 'local barons' are the backbone of the Republican party. Let's be careful about giving ours even more reason to side with theirs directly or via electing bitcoin milhouse and his gang.

Carney's speech that mrjohnmuller linked above is so far decent and worth a listen too, talking directly to the faults in the foundations of Canada, the French, Indigenous, and British empire.
posted by anthill at 11:07 AM

---------------------------

Anyone got a link to the transcript? I am coming up snake eyes on CBC.
posted by Kitteh at 11:30 AM

---------------------------

The 25th Amendment Isn't Going to Work

Yep. The best chance that option had to work was during Trump's first term, when Pence and his Cabinet were less in the tank for him than the current Cabinet is (and they were pretty goddamn in the tank then too). It's not happening. (I'm all for members of Congress, and candidates for Congress, calling for it to happen, though.)
posted by Rykey at 11:46 AM

---------------------------

I'll have to come back to it later, but... in the intro it sure sounded like some weird reinterpretation of the conquest & Anglo-Franco-FirstNations coexistence/relations in this country. Like, I understand with the currently likely win of the PQ in October and the Alberta separatist movement he needs to drum up the unity talk, but that sounded really off to me, like this doesn't really jive with what happened.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:09 PM

---------------------------

it would make sense for the US to attack the Canadian power grid

Only if Americans are prepared for broad blackouts along northern states.

While Trump would be happy to ignore the basic needs of everyday people in those states, I can't imagine the AI blowhards who have Trump's ear would be happy to have some of their power-hungry machines turned off.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:20 PM

---------------------------

It's not just direct electrical export either. Much of the water that enables consistent generation on the US portion of the Columbia River is held in Canada then doled out as needed. That water is also held for flood control.
posted by Mitheral at 12:41 PM

---------------------------

I can't imagine the AI blowhards who have Trump's ear would be happy to have some of their power-hungry machines turned off.

Going by that Sankey diagram, It'd mostly be wallstreet that gets the hit. None of the US AWS regions are heavily served by that market. (us-west-1 is in in cali but is not actually a region you want to place AI jobs).

Nor would it directly affect the AI blowhard who most strongly has Trump's ear: Grok's Colossus datacenter is in Tennessee, which has a rather famous power generation and distribution background.
posted by pwnguin at 1:12 PM

---------------------------

Lutnick: "Give me a break — they have the second-best deal in the world. And all we got to do is listen to this guy whine and complain."

All of Trump's minions sound like they stepped out of a low rent Goodfellas rip off.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:49 PM

---------------------------

All of Trump's minions sound like they stepped out of a low rent Goodfellas rip off.

Well you really have to cherry pick your morons if want them to agree with your dumb ideas without push back.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:52 PM

---------------------------

More (global) reaction:

Carney's Davos speech draws reaction from around the world: Prime minister's speech called out great powers for trying to make middle powers like Canada subservient [CBC]
posted by mazola at 1:54 PM

---------------------------

I agree with the notion that, given the circumstances, Canada Mouseland elected the best cat it could. It may be a white cat with little to no difference from many of the black cats, but the other choice was not just a black cat but a functionally rabid cat. Absolutely not a nice fellow and, I believe, significantly worse than the cat who was elected. Personally, I think the doings of the cat running Mouseland's Wild Rose province are probably the best preview of what would happen under the rabid cat. The Notwithstanding Claws is like catnip to these types of cats.

Additionally, I don't see much utility from the idea Mouseland's leader cat should announce the social revolution, or economic democracy, or overt opposition to the fat cats in and out of government. Not while the cat running Mighty Mouseland is, for all intents and purposes, talking about the end of political democracy.
posted by house-goblin at 1:59 PM

---------------------------

Mark Carney says Canada must 'be a beacon to a world that's at sea': In post-Davos speech, Canadian PM jabs at Trump, saying the arc of history 'can still bend towards progress and justice' [The Guardian]

Content warning: includes photo op with Bonhomme.
posted by mazola at 2:25 PM

---------------------------

mrjohnmuller: "I apologize, I should have been more specific. There are no current proposals for a bitumen pipeline to the BC northwest coast currently being considered, a la northern gateway, which is the big sticking point in terms of the tanker ban and coastal FN consultation."

This is goalpost-moving. Absolutely no projects (pipelines or otherwise) should be getting approved without FN consent, either. Existing projects should be blown up if they don't have FN consent.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:43 PM

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A Spanish deputy European Parliament official of some kind (i'm not clear on his exact position) named Nicolás González Casares has tweeted the words "coming soon" alongside an image of the EU flag with one star replaced by a maple leaf.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:08 PM

---------------------------

Content warning: includes photo op with Bonhomme.

not today, Satan
posted by Kitteh at 4:13 PM

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Hell of a speech.

The fact apparently wrote it himself deserves more attention. Not so common anymore.
posted by rokusan at 4:18 PM

---------------------------

Content warning: includes photo op with Bonhomme.

As a Canadian French person I take umbrage. Don Cherry, on the other hand, is my personal Satan.
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:32 PM

---------------------------

porque los dos
posted by Kitteh at 4:38 PM

---------------------------

I'm having second thoughts about what I'm going to say but I think I should even if it won't be fully understood (in good faith, and in bad - by the constituents who depends on this myopia or else they'll actually be put to answer for their contributions to violations of international law) and I'll just peace out: for all his talk that Canada is a western middle power, if this thread is a sample of general sentiment then it's forgiveable because lack of understanding and naivete is expected but if this also reflects middle-management bureaucracy and those in any lever of power, then truly the western allies are in trouble because no, you can't win a hot war, if you're a middle power without a patron or a coalition. That's the point.

Do you really think other middle powers saying for decades that the international order being mutual fiction meant that they have opted out of it? Yes, when it's convenient and they have patronage they'll pretend illiteracy too but not too much because they don't actually have a lot of space to move without feeling the pressure to toe the line. European judges talking about visited by Americans, that's not new for us. Carney has more awareness of this kind of rhetoric considering his background but clearly most people in the West don't. The point of saying that is to underscore the fact that it's mutual. The Gambia filing a genocide case against Myanmar at the ICJ right now is a demonstration of this point that feels 'normal' because in this order it's correct that a non-western state is being put to account. South Africa bringing Israel otoh isn't. But the point is if you're a middle power you depend very much on the letter of that law, not on the exceptions because you know the runway for that exception for you is very short. Canada and other Western allies have pretended illiteracy too long.

For example: Asked Tuesday if Ottawa would be interested in a permanent seat, Carney said he's focused on providing cash directly to Palestinians in Gaza.

"We would write cheques and deliver in kind to improve the welfare of the people of Palestine, but we want to see it delivered direct," he said at the World Economic Forum.

A federal official earlier told CBC News that Canada has not been asked to pay at this time and would not do so.

"Canada wants money to have maximum impact," Carney told reporters on Sunday. "We still do not have unimpeded humanitarian aid flows at scale to the people of Gaza."


He's being coy about it because he's stuck in the position of continuing to be illiterate in reading the American signals or illiterate to the letter of international law. For middle powers like my regional neighbours like Indonesia and Vietnam, they've hedged and decided to read the room of that new order and joined. For powers like mine and Singapore, we're hedging by insisting that UNRWA and other UN agencies and NGOs continue their mandate. I would recommend the second rather the first because the runway's run out for Canada. You won't be buying time by joining. You'll buy time by gumming the works and throwing administrative challenges after another.

Tangent: I had asked a former diplomat how come we never got heavily sanctioned for our position on Palestine and the tl;dr was, in Cold War Asia, we had strategic value and we could argue our position had basis in International law so it was tolerated. In the meantime our economic investment and development (like shenanigans to repatriate colonial businesses by launching an overnight "raid" on the London Stock Exchange so it legally became ours, rather than throwing them out visibly ala Zimbabwe and earning the western ire. It's all 'aboveboard') meant that we began to at least carve out some economic breathing room.

For those who represent the economics side of things, begin identifying the border-heavy businesses and infiltrate it (legally). Buy shares. Club together resources. Continuing developing local products, start joining the European funds who've begun shedding their American stocks. On the hot war side, have you considered espionage?
posted by cendawanita at 4:39 PM

---------------------------

(Would we be eligible to join the EU? Well, technically Canada does share a land border with an EU member state. So if the current membership is inclined to read "any European state" broadly...)
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:39 PM

---------------------------

Would we be eligible to join the EU? Well, technically Canada does share a land border with an EU member state. So if the current membership is inclined to read "any European state" broadly...)


It's unhinged how much crime happens there. It's practically a Francophone Cabot's Cove.
posted by Kitteh at 4:42 PM

---------------------------

...actually, i was just reminded that we also share a land border with Denmark.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:45 PM

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They even had a serial killer this season.
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:46 PM

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Dear Prime Minister Carney:
Please let this Letter serve to represent that the Board of Peace is withdrawing its invitation to you regarding Canada's joining, what will be, the most prestigious Board of Leaders ever assembled, at any time.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
DONALD J. TRUMP
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

(link is to BlueSky, I would never link Truth Social)
posted by rodlymight at 6:15 PM

---------------------------

I always find it funny that he signs his missives like he is practice writing a business letter in grade 9.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:25 PM

---------------------------

we may have to bring back the convention of annotating Trump's statements with either [real] or [satire]
posted by Rumple at 6:32 PM

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"Bored of Peace" surely.
posted by mazola at 6:35 PM

---------------------------

Well, technically Canada does share a land border with an EU member state.

You'd need a pretty good pair of muckers to make a land crossing from Canada to Saint Pierre and Miquelon.

Hans Island on the other hand is no problem and it makes me smile every time I think of the "war" there and the resolution.
posted by Mitheral at 8:00 PM

---------------------------

Casares has tweeted the words "coming soon" alongside an image of the EU flag with one star replaced by a maple leaf.

Holy crap the comments on that tweet.

Thank you for your attention to this matter!

Whatever happens I can't wait for TFG to no longer be president just so we can stop doing business via fucking tweets/lies (or whatever the cheetos interjections are called)
posted by Mitheral at 8:06 PM

---------------------------

What Trump means by a Board of Peace is 'OK, I guess the World's not going to stand for me invading Greenland and taking it over even though I have all the military power and then a bunch to do it, but what if there was a board that would look at the situation and say 'wow, no one could stop the US from seizing Greenland and a bunch of other places [such as Cuba!] by military force, so for the sake of Peace we have to give it to them.' '

And in general, that's what the Board would do: look at conflicting claims to territory and hand the territory over to what would be the obvious winner if there were to be an actual war. And that would maintain Peace.

And now I think I finally understand Trump's Tariffs. In order to go to war, you first have to wean the American people away from the goods they receive from countries that would stop selling them to us if we went to war, because that would make the war too unpopular to continue. Something like that must have been behind Hitler's tariffs as well.

Which means that the aggressive exercise of US military power has been the (hidden!) core agenda of his second term all along.
posted by jamjam at 8:14 PM

---------------------------

There is no four dimensional chess to TFG's tariffs. They are strictly a stick to bully other countries and extort bribes from businesses. Any other utility is accidental.
posted by Mitheral at 8:21 PM

---------------------------

You'd need a pretty good pair of muckers to make a land crossing from Canada to Saint Pierre and Miquelon.

Did they only accept the UK because of the tunnele under the English channel? I don't think it needs to touch! ;)

TBH, I don't exactly feel like joining the EU.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:21 PM

---------------------------


There is no four dimensional chess to TFG's tariffs. They are strictly a stick to bully other countries and extort bribes from businesses. Any other utility is accidental.



NYMA buried Trump's academic records

Mar 5, 2019 · Trump spent five years at NYMA, starting in fall 1959, after his father - having concluded that his son, then in seventh grade, needed a more discipline-focused setting - removed him from his Queens private school and sent him upstate to NYMA. [New York Military Academy]


A friend of mine told me he did well and was elected president of his class at one point, but I haven't tried to confirm it.

The kind of thinking I impute to him probably comes very naturally to him, given this background.
posted by jamjam at 8:45 PM

---------------------------

WaterAndPixels: "TBH, I don't exactly feel like joining the EU."

Yes, well, i'm sure we're not going to be assimilated against our will. But i see the advantages, and certainly if they issue an invitation, that doesn't obligate us to any particular course.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:48 PM

---------------------------

Mitheral: "Holy crap the comments on that tweet."

Well, yes, Twitter is full of Nazis. (And one gathers that EU officials and the officials of member states are finally starting to migrate off. But this guy isn't gone yet.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:49 PM

---------------------------

You don't need an invitation, just ask your King.
posted by clavdivs at 9:06 PM

---------------------------

elected president of his class at one point

chocolate war
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:08 PM

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clavdivs: "You don't need an invitation, just ask your King."

i'm not sure how you think that would work, since precisely zero members of the Commonwealth of Nations are also EU members at this point (and only one of them ever was)?
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:41 PM

---------------------------

Trump threatens tariffs on champagne so nobody can celebrate when he dies
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 1:04 AM

---------------------------

TBH, I don't exactly feel like joining the EU.

I'm with you on that one. We don't need to be giving up more sovereignty. We can sign all the defense and trade deals we want with the EU to get the basic benefits of close association without needing to give up our currency or answer to Brussels.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 3:41 AM

---------------------------

Buddy. Take a cue from Carney and at least try to work on your accuracy. In what ways is the EU coalition any more restrictive than the current legal situation in Canada vis a vis the British Crown? I seem to recall that when Britain was a part of the EU, they kept the pound instead of switching to the euro, even.
posted by eviemath at 4:42 AM

---------------------------

I haven't thought about the matter enough to have an opinion yet about whether Canada shouldn't should join the EU were such an invitation to be extended at some future time. But let's at least try to be factual and not inflammatory here. Technically, the British regent has veto power over any piece of Canadian legislation. That is (again, technically) certainly stronger than the relationship between the European Union Commission and EU member states. When I first moved to Canada, a friend explained the situation to me as: the British regent has one veto - after which Canadians would likely be upset with the meddling and dissolve their relationship to the Crown. So yes, there is a difference between the de facto and de jure situations that is not immaterial. But when Canada signs treaties with other nations, we also have a legal obligation (within the Canadian legal framework, not just under some ideal of international law) to uphold the terms we agreed to. That's about the same level of strength (or maybe even technically stronger) than the obligations imposed on member states by EU membership, as I understand it. The question would be whether we see the alliance and the specific treaty-type obligations that EU membership would entail to be useful or not. Unlike me, you may have thought about this enough to have an opinion on the matter, which is fine. Just be honest about the actual situation you are opining about.
posted by eviemath at 4:53 AM

---------------------------

I'm not your buddy, and don't accuse me of dishonesty when by your own admission you haven't thought about the matter enough to have an opinion.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:01 AM

---------------------------

Technically, the British regent has veto power over any piece of Canadian legislation

The British Regent and the Canadian Regent are two distinct LEGAL entities that just so happen to occupy the same physical body.

That is to say, Canada is not beholden to the King of England, we are beholden to the King of Canada. If the current King of Canada were to attempt to exercise the power, it would be upending over a hundred years of precedent (de facto, if not de jure, as you point out).

It would be a constitutional crisis at minimum, and cripple Canada on the International stage until its resolved. The messaging from the current King of E̶n̶g̶l̶a̶n̶d̶ Canada makes it unlikely that would be a cudgel he'd use.
posted by Paladin1138 at 5:30 AM

---------------------------

Yes, well, i'm sure we're not going to be assimilated against our will. But i see the advantages, and certainly if they issue an invitation, that doesn't obligate us to any particular course.

Not saying anybody is going to force us to join, or that the EU will twist our arm until we do. Just very meh at the thought of adding another layer of federation on top of our already struggling one.


You don't need an invitation, just ask your King.

Not sure where you're going with this, ties with the British Crown are ceremonial/historical, I STILL HATE IT but it's theater, protocol and money wasted. But we're long gone the days of Canada being a dominion.

Buddy. Take a cue from Carney and at least try to work on your accuracy. In what ways is the EU coalition any more restrictive than the current legal situation in Canada vis a vis the British Crown? I seem to recall that when Britain was a part of the EU, they kept the pound instead of switching to the euro, even.

There's actually a bunch of laws you have to enact to join the EU, another level of court and other things. Not saying they're bad or anything but this comes with much more constraints/obligations then our current obligations to the British Crown (which are basically all ceremonial). The EU is a real political entity, the British Crown is ceremony. It's not even close.

Also... I'm pretty sure anything like that requires opening/amending the Canadian constitution... and this a can of worms of epic proportion that I'm pretty sure no Canadian politician has any intent of opening. There are unresolved issues there, and we're all just pretending it's fine, but any attempt to change it will result in an utter shitshow.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 5:38 AM

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I'm not your buddy

What part of Canada are you from where that is not a Candianism that means random dude or person?
posted by eviemath at 6:17 AM

---------------------------

Perhaps useful for other non-Canadians on Metafilter too:
Discovering the Meaning of "Buddy" in Canada
Canadianisms, part 1 (includes one of the more common uses of "buddy")
posted by eviemath at 6:24 AM

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eviemath: What part of Canada are you from where that is not a Candianism that means random dude or person?

In my experience as a Canadian, the meaning of "buddy" depends entirely on tone.
posted by clawsoon at 6:25 AM

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Yeah text makes the context ambiguous with buddy (among other things). But yeah I knew what you meant, eviemath.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:28 AM

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I'm not opposed to EU membership. It's the upgrade package from when we join Eurovision.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:31 AM

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Eurovision!
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:34 AM

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In my experience as a Canadian, the meaning of "buddy" depends entirely on tone.

No, yeah, for sure. Exactly how the speaker (writer?) feels about buddy (from kind of amused to super annoyed) is usually conveyed through tone. But "buddy" is always distinct from "my buddy".
posted by eviemath at 6:35 AM

---------------------------

I'm against using overly familiar terms in any comment because it needlessly personalizes it.

Ok pally?
posted by mazola at 7:27 AM

---------------------------

Now "Pally" is very different than Buddy.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:04 AM

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Ok pally?

I think the whole point is that the Canadian "buddy" is very much not the familiar "my buddy", and in fact connotes a certain distance rather than (or despite, in some cases) familiarity, but fair enough. (And definitely made me chuckle.)
posted by eviemath at 8:50 AM

---------------------------

Bud.
posted by zenon at 8:50 AM

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Robust flower on the edge of blooming
posted by eviemath at 8:52 AM

---------------------------

I've really derailed the thread. My apologies.
posted by eviemath at 8:53 AM

---------------------------

Now that Canada and the Denmark are no longer at war (peace was finally reached in 2022), the shared land border seems like a good excuse for European Union membership.
posted by autopilot at 8:54 AM

---------------------------

Also fun fact... Greenland is not part of the European Union even though it's a Danish territory, but its citizen are member of the EU.

I'm not sure what it means exactly, but there goes our shared border ;)
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:15 AM

---------------------------

Canadian business leaders endorse Carney's Davos speech - with some reservations

I mean, I get it, but wishing the US will be "normal" again is not happening in our lifetimes. The impact of what the current administration is doing will be felt for a long long time to come.
posted by Kitteh at 9:22 AM

---------------------------

Has the Canadian "friend" derail window closed so tight it won't admit one last throwaway Terrance & Phillip reference?
posted by pwnguin at 9:29 AM

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Maple Milhouse continues to not be able to meet the moment.
posted by Kitteh at 10:32 AM

---------------------------

I mean, I get it, but wishing the US will be "normal" again is not happening in our lifetimes. The impact of what the current administration is doing will be felt for a long long time to come.

I'm not sure we can parallel's Japan & Germany recovery after WWII (different times/circumstances), but things are not static for very long.

In other news.. I guess the gloves are off and Bessent is going were nations usually don't go.

France used to have a "non-ingérence et non-indifférence" policy towards Quebec's nationalist movement, but the US seems about to enter an "actively interfering" policy.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:35 AM

---------------------------

I once completely forgot to meet a guy I wanted to buy something used from: he texted "thanks a lot, bud". This was both painful and just.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 12:00 PM

---------------------------

I guess the gloves are off and Bessent is going were nations usually don't go.

Their boss hates that Carney is getting attention for the WEF speech so they are all stirring the pot to see who can be the biggest shit disturber for Trump's favour.
posted by Ashwagandha at 2:59 PM

---------------------------

See, Canada gets tough, does it's special thing and trump is backing down. Sure, our politicos are saying no but holy shit, you pissed off Canada bAD.

'We Are Learning to Bully Back'
posted by clavdivs at 3:38 PM

---------------------------

Bessent is going were nations usually don't go

If Smith starts making further gestures towards Trump, I hope the federal authorities have the foresight to immediately arrest her and her mob and charge them with treason.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:04 PM

---------------------------

If Smith starts making further gestures towards Trump, I hope the federal authorities have the foresight to immediately arrest her and her mob and charge them with treason.

There's a limited set of actions that are treason, organizing a referendum about separation isn't one of them, it would have to be very specific actions. I mean she's a fucking menace and grade A moron, but the whole idea we're clinging too is that the government can't just decide that because they don't like what you do it's illegal... well at least not before passing a new law.

And if you go after a PM you better have an ironclad case and be ready to present it quickly after, because otherwise you're just throwing gasoline on that fire.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:26 PM

---------------------------

These ignorant dipsticks are so lost that they don't even know which fricken hemisphere they're attempting to extort.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 12:18 AM

---------------------------

INCOMING: Trump threatens Canada with 100% tariff if it makes trade deal with China [CTV]
U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday warned Canada that if it concludes a trade deal with China, he will impose a 100 per cent tariff on all goods coming over the border.

If Prime Minister Mark Carney "thinks he is going to make Canada a 'Drop Off Port' for China to send goods and products into the U.S., he is sorely mistaken," Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.

"If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products coming into the USA," he said.
posted by mazola at 6:26 AM

---------------------------

Again, I understand why some Canadians want to salvage whatever this is with the US but you cannot do that with that dipshit at the helm.

Dummy is big mad that Carney is getting respect Dummy thinks he deserves.
posted by Kitteh at 7:00 AM

---------------------------

Carney and Canada know there'd be big pushback to the speech, and that this is just the beginning. While the old man is an irrational actor, he's entirely predictable.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:35 AM

---------------------------

Note that the toddler starts off with 51st state rhetoric calling our Prime Minister governor.
posted by Mitheral at 9:41 AM

---------------------------

Governor of the Bank of Canada, Governor of the Bank of England, sure.

(I know that's not what the old man meant.)
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:49 AM

---------------------------

i wonder if that tariff includes electricity, snort
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:17 AM

---------------------------

Brave yourselves TACO incoming. I say we call that bluff.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:40 AM

---------------------------

I am getting much stronger feelings about the so-called progressives who declined to vote for Harris for reasons. This past year has shown the value of their political judgement. Hopefully they will learn from this experience that voting isn't about personal values and consumer choice, it is about who can be trusted with powerful levers to make the critical decisions.
posted by SnowRottie at 12:48 PM

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my vote always goes to whoever I think has the best chance of beating who I fear the most. Yes, this means plugging my nose sometimes. Maybe every time.
posted by philip-random at 1:01 PM

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Mark Carney Knows the Old World Is Dying. But His New World Isn't Good Enough. (Jeet Heer, for the Nation)


Lloyd Axworthy, who had served as minister of foreign affairs from 1996 to 200 under Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien, has rebuked Carney for his repeated subservience to Trump on a broad range of issues. According to Axworthy, Carney "went silent when Trump attacked a Canadian judge at the International Criminal Court, refused to comment on his breach of international law in Venezuela, declined to outright condemn his threats against Greenland, paid scant attention to the tragedy in Sudan, and backed away from climate commitments—to name just a few examples."

As an alternative to Trump's neo-imperialism, Carney at Davos recommended a new alliance of middle powers that could promote trade and security. This program is fine as far as it goes, but the nations Carney seems interested in engaging most are either the wealthy countries of Europe or the emerging great power of China. Nowhere did he address the need to revitalize the United Nations or build stronger ties to the Global South.
...
In any case, Carney's combination of centrist policies with strengthening alliances with European powers amounts to a politics of retrenchment rather than an attempt to forge novel policies. The great Marxist Antonio Gramsci famously wrote (in a loose translation): "The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: Now is the time of monsters." To his credit, Carney knows the old world is dying. But the new world he is trying to create is just a refurbished version of that old world. It will not help us in defeating the monsters.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:17 PM

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Jeebus. Not saying buddy is wrong, but in the here and now, Carney is trying to deal with the house fire next door.

(Also: Lloyd Axworthy is still alive? Good for him!)
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:52 PM

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Capt. Renault: "Jeebus. Not saying buddy is wrong, but in the here and now, Carney is trying to deal with the house fire next door."

By shoring up his own house with asbestos, yes. So great, we escape the housefire and then we all die of cancer.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:38 PM

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