ZAS-SLR4.DOC by Richard Conn, 18 Sep 86

	This message is in response to Jay Sage's comments in his
ZAS-SLR2.DOC file.

		MISLEADING COMMENTS (???) and ".IN"

	If Jay thinks my comments in MS/J were misleading, such is
his right.  I don't think they were and have no problem with them.  They
are true.  If you want to modify the libraries to work with another
assembler, be it Z80ASM or RMAC or M80, such is possible since I gave out
the source code.  If you want to assemble the libraries without modifying them,
then use ZAS.  Regardless, you can USE the libraries with Z80ASM, M80, or ZAS
without modification of the REL file.
	The problem that Z80ASM is tripping over is the ".IN" pseudo-op
(I know this from Jay's comments, not from experience).  Virtually every
module of Z3LIB contains this pseudo-op in order to read in the ZCPR 3.3
Constant Definition File, Z3CONST.LIB.  I chose ".IN" over MACLIB for several
reasons:
		A. (primary) the PDL tools I am writing key on ".IN"
for include file processing (".IN" processing was somewhat simpler than
"MACLIB" processing thanks to the leading dot)
		B. in considering the aspects of the standard assembly
language, I felt that there was no need to have two statements which
performed the same function (ie, ".IN" and "MACLIB"), and ".IN" offers
two advantages over MACLIB: (1) its form with the leading dot is
usefully different for analysis purposes and (2) ".IN" is more meaningful,
standing for INCLUDE, than MACLIB, particularly since all of the include
files I use in the Z System contain no macros (I will probably suggest
to Patrick that at least an option to name include files as "filename.IN"
be incorporated into ZAS)
		C. the PPAL tool (Pretty Printer for Assembly Language)
has had a radical effect on my outlook re form and structure, and I can
easily include an option in PPAL to automatically translate MACLIB
pseudo-ops to .IN pseudo-ops; since I am running PPAL on all Z System
libraries and tools, there is no extra work involved
	Both ZAS and Z80ASM allow grouping by [], so there is no problem
here, where M80 would have more problems.
	Note that I am definitely using the ".IN" pseudo-op everywhere
and that ZAS is currently the only assembler I am aware of that supports
the Z System standard language (which is unique primarily by the use of
".IN" and [] for grouping) used by ZCPR 3.3 and all of its programs.
My guess is that Z80ASM can be easily modified to add ".IN" which is
equivalent to "MACLIB" (are you listening, SLR?).  Then we would have
two implementations of the standard language (at least for a while).

		MORE ON THE STANDARD LANGUAGE

	Before all of this started, I submitted a request thru Echelon
to modify ZAS in several ways, two of which are of particular interest:

		1) add an IFDEF and IFNDEF pseudo-op pair, which tests
to see if a symbol is or is not defined

		2) add an option on the command line to define a symbol
(I didn't care if you could also assign the defined symbol a value);
the command line should look something like this (I didn't care what
the exact syntax was):
			ZAS filename Dsymbol
in order to define the symbol "symbol".  It would be nice to be able to
define more than one symbol, but not required.

	The power this provides is obvious: programs can be written which
can be very easily customized in particular ways by defining symbols from
the command line (shades of the C compiler's -D option).

	I was surprised (and pleased) to see IFDEF and IFNDEF pseudo-ops
available in the Z80ASM language.  SLR did not include the define capability
from the command line, however, and I mentioned it to them on the phone the
other day.


		JAY's TWO TECHNICAL ASIDES

	1. Yes, I have abandoned 8080 compatability.  The Echelon Team had
a meeting in Silicon Valley in the later part of last year, and using ZAS
as the standard language and abandoning the 8080 were two of the points
decided upon.

	2. Yes, using DSEGs will decrease the size of library files.
Note, however, my trend to use CODEND to dynamically allocate space
when large buffers are needed.  For the most part, the size of the
data areas in the library modules is quite small.  I will probably look
into using DSEGs, particularly accessing their impact wrt using CODEND.


		JAY's COMMENTS ON THE STANDARD

	I think Jay has really blown this out of proportion, partly due to
his own ego and partly due to not reading what I said in my first rebuttal
or not understanding what I said.

	The Z System standard language is a language, and a language can
have many implementations.  ZAS is the only existing implementation, and
Z80ASM could be with little effort on the part of SLR.  Ada now has 60
implementations, all conforming to the Ada language standard defined in
MIL-STD-1815A (in over 230 pages).

	Let me relate three stories from previous experience:

	1. Standards by committee are not necessarily good.  I worked on
a government project once that had a fantastic amount of potential.  As
more and more government agencies found out about it, they all wanted to
put in their two cents, adding features that made it more suitable to
their particular needs.  The budget for the design of the system was
$20 million, but, after over a year of committee action and 10 ECPs
(Engineering Change Proposals), the government had sunk over $35 million
into the project and the design was not complete.  The project was
scrapped.

	2. Standards by Committee can take a very, very long time.
In my work in the Ada community, I have been involved as a
member of the IEEE's Working Group on Ada as a Design Language.  This
group developed a Recommended Practice on the use of Ada as a DL which
I liked, but, done by committee, three years were required to get this
practice (under 100 pages) out.  I was involved for the last 1 1/2 years
of it.

	3. Standards don't have to be designed by committee.
I am a fan of Ada, and the Ada language was designed by one
small team headed by Jean Ichbiah, then of Honeywell Bull in France.
Jean is the chief architect of the language.  Many outsiders think that
Ada was designed by committee.  Ada was reviewed and selected by a
very large committee, and minor changes were made to the language by
this group, but Ada is still essentially the same as the original Green
language of Honeywell Bull.

	How can I say that I have created a standard language?  Simply put,
I selected a language before I began work on ZCPR 3.3.  That language was
implemented by ZAS.  When ZCPR 3.3 is released, the command processor, the
libraries, and the myriad of new tools and modifications to old tools will
be written in this language.  ZAS meets my needs, and I have no intention
of changing now that the project is well underway.  The standard language
is not much different from languages implemented by other assemblers,
particularly Z80ASM by SLR, and with a minor modification, Z80ASM could
be a second implementation of this language (note: by implementation,
I mean translator).


		GROWTH

	As I have said from the beginning, ZCPR is an evolving system.
ZCPR1 is different from ZCPR2, and ZCPR2 is different from ZCPR3 in
many major ways.  ZCPR 3.3 is different from ZCPR 3.0 in many ways
also.  Like the ZCPRs before it, ZCPR 3.3 is an experiment, and I feel
it keeps getting better and better.  The current following of ZCPR3 is
evidence of the excitement and interest sparked by this experiment.  I am
learning and growing by this experiment while having a lot of fun (except
when people like Jay Sage decide to get loud and obnoxious).


		THERE IS NO SLAP

	In ZAS-SLR2, Jay said "I ... would like to ask that Richard Conn
show some genuine respect for the rest of the 8-bit programming community
by paying a little attention to our ideas ...".  Jay is clearly totally
out in left field.  I have just spent over 2 years collecting ideas
for the new ZCPR 3.3.  I have worked with Ada, Ada Programming Support
Environments, SUN workstations, Symbolics workstations, and so many
things on the Defense Data Network that I can't count them all.  I have
listened to your ideas (ZCPR 3.3 started from Jay's modification of ZCPR 3.0
into ZCPR 3.2A because I liked the ideas Jay and others put into it).

	I think that Jay's frustration mainly comes from his rather complete
lack of understanding of who I am, what I am doing, and how I do things.
Jay thought I worked for Echelon; instead, I functioned in a self-employed
mode from January to May with 4 sources of income, one of which was Echelon
royalties. Jay thinks I have only two interests - Z3 and Ada.  I'm into Z3,
Ada, C, UNIX, VMS, TOPS-20, program design languages, VHSIC/VHDL/MOSIS, SUNs,
the Amiga, satellites, the space program (a guy from NASA is even on my
new Ada Software Repository committee), and so many more things.  Jay
seems to expect me to jump when he says something; I don't.  Jay expects
me to spend large amounts of time on Z-Nodes talking to users; I get
occasional printouts of selected messages from Echelon because I have a lot
to do with all of my interests (I get hundreds of email messages each week
on the DDN, and I don't read all of these either, filtering them by
subject and author).  I have to manage my time if I ever hope to get anything
done (I took a course in Time Management, which I have applied ever since).
And I've accomplished a lot, including ZCPRs, a ton of documentation, three
books, the Ada Software Repository (with its 40M of source code and
documentation, donated by many), etc.

	I am going to continue with my work now, moving toward the release
of ZCPR 3.3 and my new Ada Software Repository book.  As far as I am
concerned, this presentation is finished.  Be sure to
look for my next article on ZCPR 3.3 in Microsystems.  I'm sure Jay will.


.