From nobody  Wed May  6 15:10:16 1998
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: New improved motd, take 2
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0

>Number:         6537
>Category:       misc
>Synopsis:       New improved motd, take 2
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       non-critical
>Priority:       low
>Responsible:    jkh
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          change-request
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Wed May  6 15:10:02 PDT 1998
>Closed-Date:    Mon Jul 20 18:43:52 PDT 1998
>Last-Modified:  Mon Jul 20 18:44:03 PDT 1998
>Originator:     Doug White
>Release:        2.2.5-R
>Organization:
UO ResNet
>Environment:
>Description:
Here is my new improved motd (after phk unceremoniously squashed my
last PR).  

FreeBSD version information

Welcome to FreeBSD!
Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
up-to-the-minute information and important security advisories.

If you require technical assistance:
 1. See the errata for this release on the Releases page.
 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at
    http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html.  If the doc distribution is
    installed, the FAQ and Handbook will appear under /usr/share/doc/FAQ
    and /usr/share/doc/handbook, respectively.
 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
    `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to
    questions@FreeBSD.ORG.

Enter `/stand/sysinstall' to re-enter the installation and configuration
utility.  Edit /etc/motd to change this login announcement.

Comments appreciated.
>How-To-Repeat:

>Fix:

>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2 
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:49:28 -0700

 > Here is my new improved motd (after phk unceremoniously squashed my
 > last PR).  
 
 Hmmm.  This one needs a little work too if it's going to really help
 out the newbies, but if someone commits this version I'll simply
 commit my (minor) improvements to it after that. :-)

From: Doug White <dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:15:02 -0700 (PDT)

 On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
 
 > > Here is my new improved motd (after phk unceremoniously squashed my
 > > last PR).  
 > 
 > Hmmm.  This one needs a little work too if it's going to really help
 > out the newbies, but if someone commits this version I'll simply
 > commit my (minor) improvements to it after that. :-)
 
 By all means.
 
 Doug White                              | University of Oregon  
 Internet:  dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu    | Residence Networking Assistant
 http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite    | Computer Science Major
 
 

From: Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>
To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:58:27 -0700

 dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu wrote:
 
 	A few small suggestions, overall I think this is a much needed change.
 
  FreeBSD version information
  
  Welcome to FreeBSD!
  Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
  any security advisories or updated information regarding this release.
  
  If you require technical assistance:
   1. Please consult the releases page mentioned above.
   2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at
      http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html. If the doc distribution is
      installed on this machine you will find the FAQ and Handbook in
      /usr/share/doc/.
   3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
      `uname -a' and include error messages from whatever part of the
      system you are having problems with and email your question to
      freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.

From: Doug White <dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu>
To: Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:54:36 -0700 (PDT)

 On Thu, 7 May 1998, Studded wrote:
 
 Thanks for kicking this around, however my grammar-teacher instinct wants
 to bash this a bit ...
 
 >  Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 >  any security advisories or updated information regarding this release.
 
 This doesn't quite flow right, and it implies a one-or-the-other feeling.
 How about replacing `or' with `and':
 
   Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
   any security advisories and updated information regarding this release. 
 
 Or try this simplification:
  
 Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 updated information regarding this release. 
 
 Is this too generic if I s/updated/important/?:
 
 Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 important information regarding this release.             
 
 Am I spending too much time on this? :-)
 
 >  If you require technical assistance:
 >   1. Please consult the releases page mentioned above.
        ^^^^^^
 I think Please is a little redundant here.  Just
 
     1. Consult the Errata section of the Releases page mentioned above.
 
 should be sufficient.  We're offering a list of suggestions, not imploring
 the user to do something, like we are at the top since we would really
 like them to check this page first-thing out-of-the-box.
 
 The change to #2 is fine.  I assume everyone is okay with dropping the
 sysinstall bit.
 
 Doug White                              | University of Oregon  
 Internet:  dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu    | Residence Networking Assistant
 http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite    | Computer Science Major
 
 
 
 
 

From: Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>
To: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:40:50 -0700

 Doug White wrote:
 > 
 > On Thu, 7 May 1998, Studded wrote:
 > 
 > Thanks for kicking this around, however my grammar-teacher instinct wants
 > to bash this a bit ...
 > 
 > >  Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 > >  any security advisories or updated information regarding this release.
 > 
 > This doesn't quite flow right, and it implies a one-or-the-other feeling.
 > How about replacing `or' with `and':
 
 	Because I don't want people complaining when they go to the page and
 don't find one or the other. :)  I also want to make it as friendly and
 non-threatening as possible. 
 
 >   Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 >   any security advisories and updated information regarding this release.
 > 
 > Or try this simplification:
 > 
 > Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 > updated information regarding this release.
 
 	This is better than the second one, but the idea of making it
 "security.. or updated info" was to imply that it's important enough to
 check out that URL without creating a sense of panic.
  
 > Is this too generic if I s/updated/important/?:
 > 
 > Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 > important information regarding this release.
 > 
 > Am I spending too much time on this? :-)
 
 	No, I don't think so at all. As I said the first time around,  your
 idea of using the motd to communicate this information is a very good
 one. Creating just the right atmosphere while also communicating the
 importance of the subject matter is a delicate balance.
  
 > >  If you require technical assistance:
 > >   1. Please consult the releases page mentioned above.
 >        ^^^^^^
 > I think Please is a little redundant here.  Just
 > 
 >     1. Consult the Errata section of the Releases page mentioned above.
 > 
 > should be sufficient.  We're offering a list of suggestions, not imploring
 > the user to do something, like we are at the top since we would really
 > like them to check this page first-thing out-of-the-box.
 
 	Actually your second point reinforces the importance of making the
 request polite but firm. "Please do this.." gives a sense of "here is
 how we have prepared for the goal of you helping yourself, so go do it"
 in my mind... it also makes it more friendly. 
  
 > The change to #2 is fine.  I assume everyone is okay with dropping the
 > sysinstall bit.
 
 	Why drop it? The average new user isn't even going to know where to
 begin looking for '/stand/sysinstall.'
 
 Doug

From: Tim Vanderhoek <ac199@hwcn.org>
To: Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:16:21 -0400 (EDT)

 On Thu, 7 May 1998, Studded wrote:
 
 >  > >  Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 >  > >  any security advisories or updated information regarding this release.
 >  > 
 >  > This doesn't quite flow right, and it implies a one-or-the-other feeling.
 >  > How about replacing `or' with `and':
 >  
 >  	Because I don't want people complaining when they go to the page and
 
 How about "for potential security advisories and updated
 information"?
 
 
 >  > Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 >  > updated information regarding this release.
 >  
 >  	This is better than the second one, but the idea of making it
 >  "security.. or updated info" was to imply that it's important enough to
 >  check out that URL without creating a sense of panic.
 
 I'd consider using a more passive approach, too...
 
 Security advisories and updated release information are posted at
 http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/. 
 
 Or, my favourite,
 
 Welcome to FreeBSD!  You will find security advisories and
 updated information posted at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/. 
 
 
 >  	Actually your second point reinforces the importance of making the
 >  request polite but firm. "Please do this.." gives a sense of "here is
 >  how we have prepared for the goal of you helping yourself, so go do it"
 >  in my mind... it also makes it more friendly. 
 
 No.  "Consult ..." is definately correct here.  Not only is it
 more firm (remember that whatever tone you read the "please" with
 may not be the one that are helpless lost soul reads "please"
 with --- they may see a very different kind of "please"), but
 using the imperative can give some much-needed confidence to the
 helpless lost soul.  Those reading it who aren't helpless lost
 souls and don't need the confidence won't really care that we
 didn't say "Please".
 
 
 --
 This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund.
 
 

From: Doug White <dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu>
To: Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, ac199@hwcn.org
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:18:20 -0700 (PDT)

 On Thu, 7 May 1998, Studded wrote:
 
 > > >  Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 > > >  any security advisories or updated information regarding this release.
 > > 
 > > This doesn't quite flow right, and it implies a one-or-the-other feeling.
 > > How about replacing `or' with `and':
 > 
 > 	Because I don't want people complaining when they go to the page and
 > don't find one or the other. :)  I also want to make it as friendly and
 > non-threatening as possible. 
 
 Okay, I can buy that.
 
 > > Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for
 > > updated information regarding this release.
 > 
 > 	This is better than the second one, but the idea of making it
 > "security.. or updated info" was to imply that it's important enough to
 > check out that URL without creating a sense of panic.
 
 Taking Tim's idea is a happy medium, see below.
 
 > 	No, I don't think so at all. As I said the first time around,  your
 > idea of using the motd to communicate this information is a very good
 > one. Creating just the right atmosphere while also communicating the
 > importance of the subject matter is a delicate balance.
 
 And keeping space in mind. I'd like to have the motd be short enough that
 it doesn't scroll off the version data.  That pretty much limits it to 20
 lines or so.
 
 I need to run this by some english professors -- that'll straighten it out
 once and for all. :-)
 
 > > should be sufficient.  We're offering a list of suggestions, not imploring
 > > the user to do something, like we are at the top since we would really
 > > like them to check this page first-thing out-of-the-box.
 > 
 > 	Actually your second point reinforces the importance of making the
 > request polite but firm. "Please do this.." gives a sense of "here is
 > how we have prepared for the goal of you helping yourself, so go do it"
 > in my mind... it also makes it more friendly. 
 
 But it's not parallel structure -- you have to start each line with
 "please" and that is way too much please-ing. :) It looks ugly.
 I think s/require/need and s/See/Check softens it up enough.
 
 > > The change to #2 is fine.  I assume everyone is okay with dropping the
 > > sysinstall bit.
 > 
 > 	Why drop it? The average new user isn't even going to know where to
 > begin looking for '/stand/sysinstall.'
 
 Well, you dropped it, so I figured you did it intentionally.  
 
 I'll see if I can glue all this together.  GNATS is a good thing :)
 
 Speaking of that, you have a msg from Tim Vanderhoek that I didn't get but
 GNATS did.  I'll add him to this thread. 
 
 Tim, I like your intro lines better than mine.  Your favorite is a bit too
 forceful with `will' IMHO, `can' follows with the `gentle' tone of the
 message we're presenting.
 
 Here's as it stands:
 
 FreeBSD version information
 
 Welcome to FreeBSD!  You can find security advisories and updated
 information posted at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/.
 
 If you need technical assistance:
  1. Consult the Errata section of the Releases page mentioned above.
  2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at 
     http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html. If the doc distribution is
     installed on this machine you will find the FAQ and Handbook in
     /usr/share/doc/.
  3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
     `uname -a' and include error messages from whatever part of the
     system you are having problems with and email your question to
     freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
 
 Enter `/stand/sysinstall' to re-enter the installation and configuration
 utility.  Edit /etc/motd to change this login announcement.
 
 That's pretty good and fits in the line limit.
 
 Doug White                              | University of Oregon  
 Internet:  dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu    | Residence Networking Assistant
 http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite    | Computer Science Major
 
 
 
 
 

From: Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>
To: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, ac199@hwcn.org
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 22:29:04 -0700

 Doug White wrote:
 
 > Here's as it stands:
 
 	This works for me. :)
 
 Doug
Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->jkh 
Responsible-Changed-By: phk 
Responsible-Changed-When: Fri May 8 13:23:03 PDT 1998 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
Over to Mr packaging 

From: Tim Vanderhoek <ac199@hwcn.org>
To: Tim Vanderhoek <ac199@hwcn.org>
Cc: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>, Studded <Studded@san.rr.com>,
        freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: misc/6537: New improved motd, take 2
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:14:49 -0400 (EDT)

 On Thu, 7 May 1998, Doug White wrote:
  
 > Tim, I like your intro lines better than mine.  Your favorite is a bit too
 > forceful with `will' IMHO, `can' follows with the `gentle' tone of the
 > message we're presenting.
 
 fair 'nuff.
 
 > If you need technical assistance:
 >  1. Consult the Errata section of the Releases page mentioned above.
 >  2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at 
 
 Does anyone prefer
 
 If you need technical assistance,
  1) Consu...
  2) Sear...
 
 I do.  :)
 
 >     http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html. If the doc distribution is
 
 Two spaces after a period, of course...  If possible, it's best
 to avoid putting URLs at the beginning or end of a sentence (to
 avoid capitilization/period issues), but I can't immediately
 think of any non-contorted structure that avoids that problem in
 this case.
 
 Okay, I guess all it needs now is a friendly committer...  Oh,
 dang.  ;-)  Are there any other comments/suggestions from anybody
 (aside from Jordan, who prefers to do such things after the
 fact :)?
 
 
 --
 This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund.
 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: jkh 
State-Changed-When: Mon Jul 20 18:43:52 PDT 1998 
State-Changed-Why:  
committed, thanks! 
>Unformatted:
