From garys@opusnet.com  Wed Jul 27 05:56:58 2005
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Message-Id: <ncwtncyenf.tnc@mail.opusnet.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:57:40 -0700
From: "Gary W. Swearingen" <garys@opusnet.com>
Reply-To: garys@opusnet.com
To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Handbook somewhat off in use of /boot/kernel.old
X-GNATS-Notify:

>Number:         84154
>Category:       docs
>Synopsis:       Handbook somewhat off in use of /boot/kernel.old
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       non-critical
>Priority:       low
>Responsible:    trhodes
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          doc-bug
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Wed Jul 27 06:00:32 GMT 2005
>Closed-Date:    Tue Jan 22 15:53:20 UTC 2008
>Last-Modified:  Tue Jan 22 15:53:20 UTC 2008
>Originator:     Gary W. Swearingen
>Release:        FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE i386
>Organization:
none
>Environment:
n/a
>Description:
The handbook's concept of /boot/kernel always being moved to
/boot/kernel.old is wrong (in two places).  The move is only
made if the currently running kernel came from /boot/kernel/.

>How-To-Repeat:
n/a

>Fix:
-- In section 8.3 Building and Installing a Custom Kernel,

change
   The new kernel will be copied to the /boot/kernel directory as
   /boot/kernel/kernel and the old kernel will be moved to
   /boot/kernel.old/kernel. 
to
   The new kernel and modules will be copied to the /boot/kernel directory
   but that directory will first be moved in place of /boot/kernel.old
   if the currently running kernel came from "/boot/kernel".


-- In section 8.6, under "The kernel does not boot",

change
             You cannot rely on
             kernel.old because when installing a new kernel,
             kernel.old is overwritten with the last installed kernel
             which may be non-functional.
to
             Standard kernel builds write to /boot/kernel, with
             that directory first moved in place of /boot/kernel.old
             if the currently running kernel came from /boot/kernel.

>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@freebsd.org>
To: "Gary W. Swearingen" <garys@opusnet.com>
Cc: bug-followup@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: docs/84154: Handbook somewhat off in use of /boot/kernel.old
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:47:37 +0300

 On 2005-07-26 22:57, "Gary W. Swearingen" <garys@opusnet.com> wrote:
 > The handbook's concept of /boot/kernel always being moved to
 > /boot/kernel.old is wrong (in two places).  The move is only
 > made if the currently running kernel came from /boot/kernel/.
 
 AFAIK, the move is made everytime "installkernel" runs.  You can verify
 this by:
 
 	a) Copy /boot/kernel.old to /boot/kernel.saved.old and
 	   /boot/kernel to /boot/kernel.saved
 
 		# cd /boot
 		# cp -Rp kernel.old kernel.saved.old
 		# cp -Rp kernel     kernel.saved
 
 Then go through a few "installkernel" runs and watch the /boot/kernel
 and /boot/kernel.old directories.

From: John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>
To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, garys@opusnet.com
Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: docs/84154: Handbook somewhat off in use of /boot/kernel.old
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:52:05 -0400

 How about:
 
 The new kernel and modules will be copied to the /boot/kernel directory.  If
 the currently running kernel came from "/boot/kernel", then the old kernel
 and modules will be moved to the /boot/kernel.old directory.
 
 > -- In section 8.6, under "The kernel does not boot",
 >
 > change
 >              You cannot rely on
 >              kernel.old because when installing a new kernel,
 >              kernel.old is overwritten with the last installed kernel
 >              which may be non-functional.
 > to
 >              Standard kernel builds write to /boot/kernel, with
 >              that directory first moved in place of /boot/kernel.old
 >              if the currently running kernel came from /boot/kernel.
 
 I haven't read the full doc for context, but it looks like the replacement
 text doesn't actually replace the same meaning.  The reason for kernel.old
 only getting updated if the kernel being installed is running is to try to
 make kernel.old more reliable as in theory it should always be a kernel that
 was running well enough to do an installkernel now.  Probably the surrounding
 section here needs more updating to reflect that larger change.
 
 =2D-
 John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org> =A0<>< =A0http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
 "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" =A0=3D =A0http://www.FreeBSD.org

From: garys@opusnet.com (Gary W. Swearingen)
To: John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>
Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: docs/84154: Handbook somewhat off in use of /boot/kernel.old
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:52:06 -0700

 John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org> writes:
 
 > How about:
 >
 > The new kernel and modules will be copied to the /boot/kernel directory.  If 
 > the currently running kernel came from "/boot/kernel", then the old kernel 
 > and modules will be moved to the /boot/kernel.old directory.
 
 Change "will be" to "will first be". As-is, it doesn't sound right
 because one wonders how the old kernel can be moved "then", when the
 old kernel is gone.
 
 > I haven't read the full doc for context, but it looks like the replacement 
 > text doesn't actually replace the same meaning.  The reason for kernel.old 
 > only getting updated if the kernel being installed is running is to try to 
 > make kernel.old more reliable as in theory it should always be a kernel that 
 > was running well enough to do an installkernel now.  Probably the surrounding 
 > section here needs more updating to reflect that larger change.
 
 I'm not sure about that reason.  I think the reason is that if you're
 not booting from /boot/kernel, it's probably bad, so there's no reason
 to save it.  (It shouldn't try to be that smart, failing some of the
 time.  I'd always do the backup like my editor does, assuming I'll
 have saved the old one if I wanted to.) If users follow the handbook,
 they won't be booting out of /boot/kernel.old anyway as they'll be
 booting out of /boot/kernel.GENERIC (like I always have).
 
 Anyway, here's the whole old para
 
    Note: If you are having trouble building a kernel, make sure to
    keep a GENERIC, or some other kernel that is known to work on hand
    as a different name that will not get erased on the next build. You
    cannot rely on kernel.old because when installing a new kernel,
    kernel.old is overwritten with the last installed kernel which may
    be non-functional. Also, as soon as possible, move the working
    kernel to the proper /boot/kernel location or commands such as
    ps(1) may not work properly. To do this, simply rename the
    directory containing the good kernel:
 
 maybe replace with
 
    Note: If you are having trouble building a kernel, keep on hand a
    GENERIC, or some other kernel that is known to work, as a different
    name than "/boot/kernel.old".  That directory will get removed by
    standard "make" scripts when installing a new kernel if the running
    kernel came from "/boot/kernel".  Also, as soon as possible, move
    the working kernel to the proper /boot/kernel location or commands
    such as ps(1) may not work properly. To do this, simply rename the
    directory containing the good kernel:

From: Pav Lucistnik <pav@FreeBSD.org>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, garys@opusnet.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: docs/84154: Handbook somewhat off in use of /boot/kernel.old
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 18:38:20 +0200

 I don't think these paragraphs needs further clarification.
 
 In the first case, we don't need to complicate the matters by pointing
 out the kernel.old creation is conditional.  It's just not important in
 the context of telling the user installkernel installs new kernel
 into /boot/kernel.
 
 In the second case, we want to stress to user that kernel.old cannot be
 trusted and that the user should do his own kernel.good copy.
 The debated change made kernel.old a bit more trustworthy, but I don't
 think we need to relax our message to user here. Let him be scared, we
 can afford a little lie (simplification, really) here.
 
 -- 
 Pav Lucistnik <pav@oook.cz>
               <pav@FreeBSD.org>
 
 It whines, glows and fades...
 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: trhodes 
State-Changed-When: Tue Jan 22 15:51:10 UTC 2008 
State-Changed-Why:  
After reading the feedback, relevant handbook sections, and discussing this 
with brueffer, we feel the handbook documentation is fine.  Close this PR. 


Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->trhodes 
Responsible-Changed-By: trhodes 
Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Jan 22 15:51:10 UTC 2008 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
Over to me as closer. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=84154 
>Unformatted:
