From itetcu@people.tecnik93.com  Thu May  5 23:56:29 2005
Return-Path: <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 231FC16A4CE
	for <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org>; Thu,  5 May 2005 23:56:29 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from relay.rdsnet.ro (gimli.rdsnet.ro [193.231.236.70])
	by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0401E43D9A
	for <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org>; Thu,  5 May 2005 23:56:28 +0000 (GMT)
	(envelope-from itetcu@people.tecnik93.com)
Received: (qmail 5760 invoked from network); 5 May 2005 23:49:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.rdsnet.ro) (62.231.74.130)
  by smtp1-133.rdsnet.ro with SMTP; 5 May 2005 23:49:07 -0000
Received: (qmail 12678 invoked by uid 89); 6 May 2005 00:09:01 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO it.buh.tecnik93.com) (81.196.204.98)
  by 0 with SMTP; 6 May 2005 00:09:01 -0000
Received: from it.buh.tecnik93.com (localhost.buh.tecnik93.com [127.0.0.1])
	by it.buh.tecnik93.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7AE114CF
	for <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org>; Fri,  6 May 2005 02:56:25 +0300 (EEST)
Message-Id: <1115337385.0@it.buh.tecnik93.com>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 02:56:25 +0300
From: "Ion-Mihai " IOnut " Tetcu" <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
To: "FreeBSD gnats submit" <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org>
Subject: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
X-Send-Pr-Version: gtk-send-pr 0.4.6 
X-GNATS-Notify:

>Number:         80681
>Category:       docs
>Synopsis:       articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       non-critical
>Priority:       low
>Responsible:    jcamou
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          doc-bug
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Fri May 06 00:00:19 GMT 2005
>Closed-Date:    Tue Jul 19 21:39:12 GMT 2005
>Last-Modified:  Tue Jul 19 21:39:12 GMT 2005
>Originator:     Ion-Mihai "IOnut" Tetcu
>Release:        FreeBSD 5.4-PRERELEASE i386
>Organization:
>Environment:


System: FreeBSD 5.4-PRERELEASE #2: Thu Mar  3 23:57:35 EET 2005



>Description:


There's no reason to have GNTATS filles with PRs telling that there is a new version of port X, so add a few lines explaining what should one do.


>How-To-Repeat:





>Fix:


--- problem-reports_article.sgml.diff begins here ---
--- doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml.orig	Fri May  6 02:41:02 2005
+++ doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	Fri May  6 02:48:55 2005
@@ -106,7 +106,15 @@
 	<para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
 	  software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 	  system components such as BIND or various GNU
-	  utilities).</para>
+	  utilities). In ports case there are 2 possibilities: the port
+	  has no maitainer (MAINTAINER=ports@freebsd.org) in which case
+	  if your PR doesn't contain a patch there are not many chances
+	  somebody will stand up and do it) or the port is maintained, 
+	  in which case either the maintainer already knows about the 
+	  update and for various reasons (no time, there's a problem in 
+	  the new version, etc.) he hasn't submitted an update yet or if
+	  he doesn't know you should always try first to contact him 
+	  directly and fill a PR only if you get no timle respose</para>
       </listitem>
     </itemizedlist>
 
--- problem-reports_article.sgml.diff ends here ---



>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
To: Ion-Mihai IOnut Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
Cc: FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they
 should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 08:55:52 +0800 (WST)

 On Fri, 6 May 2005, Ion-Mihai  IOnut  Tetcu wrote:
 > --- problem-reports_article.sgml.diff begins here ---
 > --- doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml.orig	Fri May  6 02:41:02 2005
 > +++ doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	Fri May  6 02:48:55 2005
 > @@ -106,7 +106,15 @@
 >  	<para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
 >  	  software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 >  	  system components such as BIND or various GNU
 > -	  utilities).</para>
 > +	  utilities). In ports case there are 2 possibilities: the port
 > +	  has no maitainer (MAINTAINER=ports@freebsd.org) in which case
 > +	  if your PR doesn't contain a patch there are not many chances
 > +	  somebody will stand up and do it) or the port is maintained,
 > +	  in which case either the maintainer already knows about the
 > +	  update and for various reasons (no time, there's a problem in
 > +	  the new version, etc.) he hasn't submitted an update yet or if
 > +	  he doesn't know you should always try first to contact him
 > +	  directly and fill a PR only if you get no timle respose</para>
 
 This sentence could, well, use some work.
 
 Why not just "If you are reporting a new version of a port, try to contact
 the port's maintainer first."?
 
 Cheers,
 
 David Adam
 zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
 

From: Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
To: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Cc: FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they
 should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 04:48:46 +0300

 On Fri, 6 May 2005 08:55:52 +0800 (WST)
 David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
 
 > On Fri, 6 May 2005, Ion-Mihai  IOnut  Tetcu wrote:
 > > --- problem-reports_article.sgml.diff begins here ---
 > > --- doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml.orig	Fri May  6 02:41:02 2005
 > > +++ doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	Fri May  6 02:48:55 2005
 > > @@ -106,7 +106,15 @@
 > >  	<para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
 > >  	  software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 > >  	  system components such as BIND or various GNU
 > > -	  utilities).</para>
 > > +	  utilities). In ports case there are 2 possibilities: the port
 > > +	  has no maitainer (MAINTAINER=ports@freebsd.org) in which case
 > > +	  if your PR doesn't contain a patch there are not many chances
 > > +	  somebody will stand up and do it) or the port is maintained,
 > > +	  in which case either the maintainer already knows about the
 > > +	  update and for various reasons (no time, there's a problem in
 > > +	  the new version, etc.) he hasn't submitted an update yet or if
 > > +	  he doesn't know you should always try first to contact him
 > > +	  directly and fill a PR only if you get no timle respose</para>
 > 
 > This sentence could, well, use some work.
 
 yeh :)
 
 > Why not just "If you are reporting a new version of a port, try to contact
 > the port's maintainer first."?
 
 So that I don't see PR but post on ports@ ? Well, it will be an
 improvement, at least no one will have to close them.
 
 
 -- 
 IOnut
 Unregistered ;) FreeBSD "user"
 
 

From: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
To: Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
Cc: FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they
 should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:10:12 +0800 (WST)

 > > Why not just "If you are reporting a new version of a port, try to contact
 > > the port's maintainer first."?
 >
 > So that I don't see PR but post on ports@ ? Well, it will be an
 > improvement, at least no one will have to close them.
 
 I have two primary problems with the proposed patch
 - It's poorly written. This can be fixed.
 - The general message that it gives is not one I think is beneficial. We
 should be trying to remove barriers for people to report problems, not
 institute them.
 
 I can understand that you want to reduce the amount of waffle in the PR
 database, but I think your proposed change is too complicated and too
 negative.
 
 Now, I am not a committer nor subscribed to ports@, but surely hitting the
 Delete key once or twice a week more often is not that huge a price to
 pay?
 
 I propose that this patch be shortened to:
 
 --- article.sgml.orig   2005-01-15 10:16:42.000000000 +0800
 +++ article.sgml        2005-05-07 15:07:06.622424000 +0800
 @@ -106,7 +106,8 @@
         <para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
           software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
           system components such as BIND or various GNU
 -         utilities).</para>
 +         utilities). If you are reporting a new version of a
 +         port, try contacting the port's maintainer first.</para>
        </listitem>
      </itemizedlist>
 
 David Adam
 zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
 

From: Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
To: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Cc: FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, pav@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they
 should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 12:22:26 +0300

 On Sat, 7 May 2005 15:10:12 +0800 (WST)
 David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
 
 > > > Why not just "If you are reporting a new version of a port, try to contact
 > > > the port's maintainer first."?
 > >
 > > So that I don't see PR but post on ports@ ? Well, it will be an
 > > improvement, at least no one will have to close them.
 > 
 > I have two primary problems with the proposed patch
 > - It's poorly written. This can be fixed.
 
 I hereby promise not to write any PR after 12p.m. localtime :)
 
 > - The general message that it gives is not one I think is beneficial. We
 > should be trying to remove barriers for people to report problems, not
 > institute them.
 
 You're somehow right here.
 
 > I can understand that you want to reduce the amount of waffle in the PR
 > database, but I think your proposed change is too complicated and too
 > negative.
 > 
 > Now, I am not a committer nor subscribed to ports@, but surely hitting the
 > Delete key once or twice a week more often is not that huge a price to
 > pay?
 
 I remember having a discussion about this subject some time ago with
 pav@ (cc'ed).
 
 The only reason for "outdated announce" PR is that maybe someday someone
 other that a commiter (as a commiter is busy enough) will start looking
 in the PR database for something to do; now we all know how interested
 is the mythical Someone to do just that. IMO the practical value of this
 PR equals zero (even less since they generate supplementary work for the
 commiters - and the typical wait time for a non-commiter maintainer
 update is about a week this days).
 
 Now if the port is maintained, to have a PR announcing you there's a new
 version is usually frustrating: you know there's a new version, you
 probably have worked with the developer on it, you're probably testing
 to see there's no regression, etc. So this kind of PRs do the same good
 as a simple email (which can be useful if you maintain a large number of
 ports or for the ports that are updated rarely - I use a monthly cron
 job to remind me of them).
 
 
 > I propose that this patch be shortened to:
 > 
 > --- article.sgml.orig   2005-01-15 10:16:42.000000000 +0800
 > +++ article.sgml        2005-05-07 15:07:06.622424000 +0800
 > @@ -106,7 +106,8 @@
 >         <para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
 >           software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 >           system components such as BIND or various GNU
 > -         utilities).</para>
 > +         utilities). If you are reporting a new version of a
 > +         port, try contacting the port's maintainer first.</para>
 >        </listitem>
 >      </itemizedlist>
 
 At least this could be committed.
 
 
 -- 
 IOnut
 Unregistered ;) FreeBSD "user"
 
 

From: Pav Lucistnik <pav@FreeBSD.org>
To: Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
Cc: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>,
	FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they
	should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:41:53 +0200

 Ion-Mihai Tetcu p=ED=B9e v so 07. 05. 2005 v 12:22 +0300:
 
 > > I propose that this patch be shortened to:
 > >=20
 > > --- article.sgml.orig   2005-01-15 10:16:42.000000000 +0800
 > > +++ article.sgml        2005-05-07 15:07:06.622424000 +0800
 > > @@ -106,7 +106,8 @@
 > >         <para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
 > >           software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 > >           system components such as BIND or various GNU
 > > -         utilities).</para>
 > > +         utilities). If you are reporting a new version of a
 > > +         port, try contacting the port's maintainer first.</para>
 > >        </listitem>
 > >      </itemizedlist>
 >=20
 > At least this could be committed.
 
 That, or just kill the whole paragraph.
 
 Or tell people to submit patch for updating the port with their PR.
 (Obviously this don't apply to base.)
 
 You could also tell people to search GNATS for PRs containing the update
 before sending any mail.
 
 --=20
 Pav Lucistnik <pav@oook.cz>
               <pav@FreeBSD.org>
 
 Linux is a happy free-for-all chaos.

From: Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@freebsd.org>
To: Pav Lucistnik <pav@freebsd.org>,
	Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
Cc: bug-followup@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:20:35 +0300

 On 2005-05-07 11:41, Pav Lucistnik <pav@freebsd.org> wrote:
 >Ion-Mihai Tetcu p??e v so 07. 05. 2005 v 12:22 +0300:
 >>> I propose that this patch be shortened to:
 >>>
 >>> --- article.sgml.orig   2005-01-15 10:16:42.000000000 +0800
 >>> +++ article.sgml        2005-05-07 15:07:06.622424000 +0800
 >>> @@ -106,7 +106,8 @@
 >>>         <para>Notification of updates to externally maintained
 >>>           software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 >>>           system components such as BIND or various GNU
 >>> -         utilities).</para>
 >>> +         utilities). If you are reporting a new version of a
 >>> +         port, try contacting the port's maintainer first.</para>
 >>>        </listitem>
 >>>      </itemizedlist>
 >>
 >> At least this could be committed.
 >
 > That, or just kill the whole paragraph.
 >
 > Or tell people to submit patch for updating the port with their PR.
 > (Obviously this don't apply to base.)
 >
 > You could also tell people to search GNATS for PRs containing the update
 > before sending any mail.
 
 IMHO, this should apply to *ALL* submissions through Gnats.  I don't see
 why we have to mention it especially for ports/ stuff.
 

From: Roman Neuhauser <neuhauser@sigpipe.cz>
To: Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
Cc: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org,
	FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	pav@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 12:17:08 +0200

 # itetcu@people.tecnik93.com / 2005-05-07 12:22:26 +0300:
 > The only reason for "outdated announce" PR is that maybe someday someone
 > other that a commiter (as a commiter is busy enough) will start looking
 > in the PR database for something to do; now we all know how interested
 > is the mythical Someone to do just that. IMO the practical value of this
 > PR equals zero (even less since they generate supplementary work for the
 > commiters - and the typical wait time for a non-commiter maintainer
 > update is about a week this days).
 > 
 > Now if the port is maintained, to have a PR announcing you there's a new
 > version is usually frustrating: you know there's a new version, you
 > probably have worked with the developer on it, you're probably testing
 > to see there's no regression, etc. So this kind of PRs do the same good
 > as a simple email (which can be useful if you maintain a large number of
 > ports or for the ports that are updated rarely - I use a monthly cron
 > job to remind me of them).
 
     I used the above text as a base for this patch; I haven't tested
     it compiles.
 
 Index: en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml
 ===================================================================
 RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml,v
 retrieving revision 1.36
 diff -u -u -r1.36 article.sgml
 --- en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	15 Jan 2005 02:16:42 -0000	1.36
 +++ en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	8 May 2005 10:11:30 -0000
 @@ -107,6 +107,20 @@
  	  software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
  	  system components such as BIND or various GNU
  	  utilities).</para>
 +    <para>For unmaintained ports (<makevar>MAINTAINER</makevar> contains
 +      <literal>ports@FreeBSD.org</literal>), such update notifications
 +      might get picked up by an interested
 +      committer, or you might be asked to provide a patch to update
 +      the port; providing it upfront will greatly improve your chances
 +      that the port will get updated in a timely manner.</para>
 +    <para>If the port is maintained, PRs announcing new upstream releases
 +      are usually not very useful since they generate supplementary work
 +      for the commiters, and the maintainer likely knows already there's
 +      a new version, they have probably worked with the developers on it,
 +      they're probably testing to see there's no regression, etc.</para>
 +    <para>In either case, following the process described in <ulink
 +      url="&url.books.porters-handbook;/port-upgrading.html">Porter's
 +      Handbook</ulink> will yield the best results.</para>
        </listitem>
      </itemizedlist>
  
 
 -- 
 How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
 You don't know, man.  You don't KNOW.
 Cause you weren't THERE.             http://bash.org/?255991

From: Ion-Mihai Tetcu <itetcu@people.tecnik93.com>
To: Roman Neuhauser <neuhauser@sigpipe.cz>
Cc: David Adam <zanchey@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org,
	FreeBSD gnats submit <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>,
	pav@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: docs/80681: articles/problem-reports: don't tell people they
 should sumbit a PR each time they see an outdated port
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:03:04 +0300

 On Sun, 8 May 2005 12:17:08 +0200
 Roman Neuhauser <neuhauser@sigpipe.cz> wrote:
 
 > # itetcu@people.tecnik93.com / 2005-05-07 12:22:26 +0300:
 > > The only reason for "outdated announce" PR is that maybe someday someone
 > > other that a commiter (as a commiter is busy enough) will start looking
 > > in the PR database for something to do; now we all know how interested
 > > is the mythical Someone to do just that. IMO the practical value of this
 > > PR equals zero (even less since they generate supplementary work for the
 > > commiters - and the typical wait time for a non-commiter maintainer
 > > update is about a week this days).
 > > 
 > > Now if the port is maintained, to have a PR announcing you there's a new
 > > version is usually frustrating: you know there's a new version, you
 > > probably have worked with the developer on it, you're probably testing
 > > to see there's no regression, etc. So this kind of PRs do the same good
 > > as a simple email (which can be useful if you maintain a large number of
 > > ports or for the ports that are updated rarely - I use a monthly cron
 > > job to remind me of them).
 > 
 >     I used the above text as a base for this patch; I haven't tested
 >     it compiles.
 > 
 > Index: en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml
 > ===================================================================
 > RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml,v
 > retrieving revision 1.36
 > diff -u -u -r1.36 article.sgml
 > --- en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	15 Jan 2005 02:16:42 -0000	1.36
 > +++ en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.sgml	8 May 2005 10:11:30 -0000
 > @@ -107,6 +107,20 @@
 >  	  software (mainly ports, but also externally maintained base
 >  	  system components such as BIND or various GNU
 >  	  utilities).</para>
 > +    <para>For unmaintained ports (<makevar>MAINTAINER</makevar> contains
 > +      <literal>ports@FreeBSD.org</literal>), such update notifications
 > +      might get picked up by an interested
 > +      committer, or you might be asked to provide a patch to update
 > +      the port; providing it upfront will greatly improve your chances
 > +      that the port will get updated in a timely manner.</para>
 > +    <para>If the port is maintained, PRs announcing new upstream releases
 > +      are usually not very useful since they generate supplementary work
 > +      for the commiters, and the maintainer likely knows already there's
 > +      a new version, they have probably worked with the developers on it,
 > +      they're probably testing to see there's no regression, etc.</para>
 > +    <para>In either case, following the process described in <ulink
 > +      url="&url.books.porters-handbook;/port-upgrading.html">Porter's
 > +      Handbook</ulink> will yield the best results.</para>
 >        </listitem>
 >      </itemizedlist>
 
 I'd say it better that my original and should be committed.
 
 -- 
 IOnut
 Unregistered ;) FreeBSD "user"
 
 
Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->jcamou  
Responsible-Changed-By: jcamou 
Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Jun 27 16:54:45 GMT 2005 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
Take it. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=80681 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed  
State-Changed-By: jcamou 
State-Changed-When: Tue Jul 19 21:38:25 GMT 2005 
State-Changed-Why:  
Patch committed with some changes, thanks for the submission. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=80681 
>Unformatted:
