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Message-Id: <200812061529.mB6FTBEd024942@www.freebsd.org>
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:29:11 GMT
From: guillaume <g71@laposte.net>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: using packages system
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-3.1
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>Number:         129464
>Category:       docs
>Synopsis:       using packages system
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       high
>Responsible:    allanjude
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       handbook
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          doc-bug
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Sat Dec 06 15:30:07 UTC 2008
>Closed-Date:    Mon May 19 20:08:53 UTC 2014
>Last-Modified:  Mon May 19 20:08:53 UTC 2014
>Originator:     guillaume
>Release:        7.0
>Organization:
>Environment:
FreeBSD ordi1.guigui.net 7.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE #0: Sun Feb 24 19:59:52 UTC 2008     root@logan.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  i386
>Description:
in the FreeBSD handbook, 4.4 (Using the Packages System), pkg_add and pkg_delete are obsolete commands to manage packages. it's quasi-impossible to control requirements packages with these commands.
when a beginner read the handbook, he lost a lot of hours before he understand that (if, by miracle, he doesn't give up FreeBSD).
>How-To-Repeat:
see above.
>Fix:
the good commands are portupgrade and pkg_deinstall.
the portupgrade tool must be natively integrated in FreeBSD.

example of procedure:

1) it's better to have PACKAGESITE to the last stable branch by default, no?
2) install port collection with csup
3) clean database with pkgdb -aF (is it necessary after the port collection install?)
4) to install the xfce package: portinstall -RPP xfce
5) to upgrade the xfce package: portupgrade -RPP xfce
6) to delete the xfce package: pkg_deinstall -r xfce



PS: it's not convenient to install the port collection if one only use packages. a solution to this will be good for the future...

>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: Szilveszter Adam <sziszi@bsd.hu>
To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: docs/129464: using packages system
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:26:21 +0100

 On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 03:29:11PM +0000, guillaume wrote:
 > in the FreeBSD handbook, 4.4 (Using the Packages System), pkg_add and pkg_delete are obsolete commands to manage packages. it's quasi-impossible to control requirements packages with these commands.
 
 On this, I tend to agree. However, when starting out with a new system,
 these are the only commands that are available.
 
 > >Fix:
 > the good commands are portupgrade and pkg_deinstall.
 > the portupgrade tool must be natively integrated in FreeBSD.
 
 This is not possible with the current state of affairs, because
 portupgrade has external dependencies. It must rewritten first (like it
 happened with cvsup).
 
 > example of procedure:
 > 
 > 1) it's better to have PACKAGESITE to the last stable branch by default, no?
 
 No. Those packages were specifically made for the stable branch, not the
 release that you are trying to install. In most cases, it would probably
 work (but only, if you upgrade all packages at the same time and from
 tha same branch) but not always (eg if a component of the base has
 already been upgraded in the stable branch compared to your release and
 eg a library version has been bumped) 
 
 The trouble is, that on FreeBSD using packages was not the way to
 install third-party software. It was provided more as a quick aid or a
 convenience, but the recommended method was to use the ports and compile
 yourself. This procedure is well-tested and works fine today as well.
 Packages, by contrast, are trickier. Not just for FreeBSD: on most Linux
 distros, there is no option to eg only upgrade Firefox, unless the
 maintainer has specifically made a new package for the distro and
 release you are using; otherwise you must wait until the next release.
 On FreeBSD, by contrast, there was no problem with upgrading eg Firefox
 or even complex stuff like the whole KDE environment although the new
 FreeBSD release was still months away, since the ports system did the
 trick.
 
 > 2) install port collection with csup
 > 3) clean database with pkgdb -aF (is it necessary after the port collection install?)
 
 Not really, you did not install anything yet, so there is no database.
 
 > 4) to install the xfce package: portinstall -RPP xfce
 > 5) to upgrade the xfce package: portupgrade -RPP xfce
 > 6) to delete the xfce package: pkg_deinstall -r xfce
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > PS: it's not convenient to install the port collection if one only use packages. a solution to this will be good for the future...
 
 Only, if there will be a decision that binary packages will be the
 primary method of installing third-party software on FreeBSD. This is
 not the case today.
 
 -- 
 Regards:
 
 Szilveszter ADAM
 Budapest
 Hungary

From: guillaume <g71@laposte.net>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, g71@laposte.net
Cc: sziszi@bsd.hu
Subject: Re: docs/129464: using packages system
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:12:27 +0100

 it will be good to integrate the keys features of your explanation in 
 the handbook:
 
 - it isn't recommended to override PACKAGESITE because packages are 
 specifically made for a branch.
 - pkg_add and pkg_delete are obsolete, use the portupgrade tool. it is 
 recommended to install it before you try to manage package. portupgrade 
 use the port tree, so you must have the port tree installed.
     examples:
     - install the xfce package: portinstall -RPP xfce
     - upgrade your xfce with the ports: portupgrade -R xfce
     - uninstalll your xfce: pkg_deinstall -r xfce
 
 (and if the user can access to internet, it seems recommended to not 
 install the port tree from the distribution media, but directly from 
 internet after the FreeBSD installation (with csup), no?)
 
 
 regards
 

From: Szilveszter Adam <sziszi@bsd.hu>
To: guillaume <g71@laposte.net>
Cc: bug-followup@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: docs/129464: using packages system
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:03:35 +0100

 Dear guillaume,
 
 On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 12:12:27AM +0100, guillaume wrote:
 > it will be good to integrate the keys features of your explanation in 
 > the handbook:
 
 I am ok with this :-)
 
 > - it isn't recommended to override PACKAGESITE because packages are 
 > specifically made for a branch.
 
 Yes.
 
 > - pkg_add and pkg_delete are obsolete, use the portupgrade tool. it is 
 > recommended to install it before you try to manage package. portupgrade 
 > use the port tree, so you must have the port tree installed.
 >     examples:
 >     - install the xfce package: portinstall -RPP xfce
 >     - upgrade your xfce with the ports: portupgrade -R xfce
 >     - uninstalll your xfce: pkg_deinstall -r xfce
 
 Yes. (Although I am not sure what happens if you use -PP and do not have
 the ports tree. I will try it sometime.)
 
 > (and if the user can access to internet, it seems recommended to not 
 > install the port tree from the distribution media, but directly from 
 > internet after the FreeBSD installation (with csup), no?)
 
 Yes, this is a good recommendation. I do it like this all the time.
 
 -- 
 Regards:
 
 Szilveszter ADAM
 Budapest
 Hungary
Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->tabthorpe 
Responsible-Changed-By: tabthorpe 
Responsible-Changed-When: Fri Feb 6 17:53:49 UTC 2009 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
I'll take it. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=129464 

From: guillaume <g71@laposte.net>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: docs/129464: using packages system
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:11:02 +0200

 i have a better understanding now. when i wrote "pkg_add is obsolete" 
 it's not correct.
 this is a convenient procedure for "easy" software installation (in my 
 opinion):
 
 - the ports tree must be installed (choose csup or portsnap method)
 - portupgrade must be installed
 - install softwares with pkg_add -r (when it's possible)
 - if pkg_add -r don't find a package in "Latest", look in "All"... then: 
 pkg_add -r ../All/<name-ver>.tbz
 - after each installation with pkg_add, keep the package DB up to date 
 with portupgrade: pkgdb -aF
 - if it isn't possible to install with pkg_add, install with portinstall -RP
 - upgrade with portupgrade -RP
 - deinstall with pkg_deinstall -R (not -r as i wrote before)
 
 
 regards
Responsible-Changed-From-To: tabthorpe->freebsd-doc 
Responsible-Changed-By: tabthorpe 
Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Apr 10 04:45:29 UTC 2010 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
Back to the heap, I have made no positive progress on this, maybe 
somebody else can do it justice 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=129464 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: allanjude 
State-Changed-When: Mon May 19 20:02:10 UTC 2014 
State-Changed-Why:  
the pkg_* tools have been superseded by pkg(7) and pkg(8) and the  
documentation has been updated to reflect this  


Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->allanjude 
Responsible-Changed-By: allanjude 
Responsible-Changed-When: Mon May 19 20:02:10 UTC 2014 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
the pkg_* tools have been superseded by pkg(7) and pkg(8) and the 
documentation has been updated to reflect this 


http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=129464 
>Unformatted:
