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Message-Id: <200607181919.k6IJJA7W046319@www.freebsd.org>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:19:10 GMT
From: "Dr. Markus Waldeck" <waldeck@gmx.de>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Missing description of "birth time of the inode" in man stat
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-2.3

>Number:         100494
>Category:       docs
>Synopsis:       Missing description of "birth time of the inode" in man stat
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       non-critical
>Priority:       medium
>Responsible:    freebsd-doc
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          doc-bug
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Tue Jul 18 19:20:16 GMT 2006
>Closed-Date:    Sat Oct 07 21:48:21 GMT 2006
>Last-Modified:  Sat Oct  7 21:50:22 GMT 2006
>Originator:     Dr. Markus Waldeck
>Release:        6.1
>Organization:
>Environment:
FreeBSD fb 6.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.1-RELEASE #0: Sun May  7 04:32:43 UTC 2006
root@opus.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  i386
>Description:
"birthtime" always corresponds with the comment /* time of file creation */ in /usr/include/sys/stat.h.

man stat mentions ONE time "birth time of the inode":
The time file was last accessed or modified, of when the
inode was last changed, or the birth time of the inode.

There is no further explanation of the meaning and the correlation to the "time of file creation".
>How-To-Repeat:
man stat
>Fix:
Add the explanation
>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: Maxim Konovalov <maxim@macomnet.ru>
To: "Dr. Markus Waldeck" <waldeck@gmx.de>
Cc: bug-followup@freebsd.org
Subject: docs/100494
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:06:49 +0400 (MSD)

 Hi Markus,
 
 There is xref to stat(2) man page with the st_birthtime field
 description.  Does this suit you?
 
 -- 
 Maxim Konovalov

From: Maxim Konovalov <maxim@macomnet.ru>
To: bug-followup@freebsd.org
Cc:  
Subject: docs/100494
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:35:06 +0400 (MSD)

 Added to the audit trail.
 
 -- 
 Maxim Konovalov
 
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:09:49 -0400 (EDT)
 From: waldeck@gmx.de
 To: undisclosed-recipients:  ;
 Subject: Re: Re: Re: docs/100494
 
 Hi Maxim,
 
 you did not answer my last email!
 
 > I'm not sure I understand your quiestion completely.  In UFS2 there is
 > a lazy inode allocation mechanism but it is irrelevant to the topic
 > because st_birthtime is an attribute of the file the inode refers.
 
 Summary:
 1. birthtime is NOT a standard Un!x feature.
 2. The biological term "birth" is misleading and unsuitable!
 3. A clear and evident definition is required!
 4. During the file creation a inode is allocated.
 5. This time is saved in st_birthtime.
 
 man 1 stat should be:
 > a, m, c, B
 >		     The time file was last accessed or modified, of when the
 > 		     inode was last changed, or the time of file creation
 >                    (the so called birth time of the inode).
 
 instead of:
 > 		     inode was last changed, or the birth time of the inode.
 
 man 2 stat should be:
 > 		     st_birthtime  Time when the file was created and the inode was allocated.
                                                  ^^^^
 instead of:
 > 		     st_birthtime  Time when the inode was created.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Markus
 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: ceri 
State-Changed-When: Sat Oct 7 21:47:36 UTC 2006 
State-Changed-Why:  
The term "birth time" is as unambiguous as we can get here.  It is /not/ 
the time that the file was created. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=100494 

From: Ceri Davies <ceri@submonkey.net>
To: FreeBSD Gnats Submit <freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:  
Subject: Re: docs/100494
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 22:47:21 +0100

 Your new statements are incorrect; birthtime refers to when the inode
 was allocated, not when the file was created.  The implications of
 using any term other than the self-descriptive "birth time" really are
 unclear (for instance, when is a file restored from backup created?) and
 so we're really better off just using the term "birth time".
 
 Ceri
>Unformatted:
