From jc@minjust.gov.ua  Sat Jan 25 10:19:51 2003
Return-Path: <jc@minjust.gov.ua>
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3368137B401
	for <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org>; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:19:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mash.minjust.gov.ua (mash.minjust.gov.ua [195.5.27.176])
	by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A1B43F18
	for <FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org>; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:19:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jc@minjust.gov.ua)
Received: from yard.minjust.gov.ua ([10.1.9.27])
	by mash.minjust.gov.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.10)
	id 18cUuC-000DPv-00
	for FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:19:48 +0200
Received: from jc by yard.minjust.gov.ua with local (Exim 4.10)
	id 18cUu8-00098e-00
	for FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:19:44 +0200
Message-Id: <E18cUu8-00098e-00@yard.minjust.gov.ua>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:19:44 +0200
From: Igor Karpov <jc@minjust.gov.ua>
Reply-To:
To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc:
Subject: Sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine.
X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113
X-GNATS-Notify:

>Number:         47468
>Category:       conf
>Synopsis:       Sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine.
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       non-critical
>Priority:       low
>Responsible:    freebsd-bugs
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          change-request
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Sat Jan 25 10:20:06 PST 2003
>Closed-Date:    Sat Jan 25 13:49:30 PST 2003
>Last-Modified:  Mon Jan 27 07:10:01 PST 2003
>Originator:     Igor Karpov
>Release:        FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p2 i386
>Organization:
Ministry of Justice of Ukraine
>Environment:
System: FreeBSD yard.minjust.gov.ua 4.7-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p2 #2: Thu Dec 12 13:24:50 EET 2002 root@yard.minjust.gov.ua:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/YARD i386
>Description:
	sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine, but there is only one timezone here, EET (Eastern Europe Time, [+0200]
>How-To-Repeat:
	Run /stand/sysinstall, choose Configure/Timezone/Europe/Ukraine
>Fix:
        Three additional timezones should be removed.


>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: wollman 
State-Changed-When: Sat Jan 25 13:49:00 PST 2003 
State-Changed-Why:  
Any issues must be resolved with database maintainers. 
FreeBSD does not make local changes. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=47468 

From: Garrett Wollman <wollman@lcs.mit.edu>
To: Igor Karpov <jc@minjust.gov.ua>
Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: conf/47468: Sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine.
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:48:38 -0500 (EST)

 <<On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:19:44 +0200, Igor Karpov <jc@minjust.gov.ua> said:
 
 > 	sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine, but there
 > is only one timezone here, EET (Eastern Europe Time, [+0200]
 
 Actually, there are four timezones in Ukraine, all of which just
 happen to observe the same legal time at present.  See
 /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/europe.  Any issues with the time zone
 database can be brought up with the database maintainers,
 <tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov>; FreeBSD does not make local changes to it.
 The maintainers would particularly appreciate any legal citations
 specifically documenting the establishment of standard time in
 Ukraine.
 
 -GAWollman
 

From: Valentin Nechayev <netch@netch.kiev.ua>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc: jc@minjust.gov.ua, wollman@lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: conf/47468: Sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine.
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:33:18 +0200

 Four different Ukrainian timezones are reflections not of current timezone,
 and not of official regulations, but of former ones in quite historical times.
 One can see, e.g., comment for definition of Crimea time:
 
 # Central Crimea used Moscow time 1994/1997.
 
 Or for other two non-standard zones:
 
 # Ruthenia used CET 1990/1991.
 # Zaporozh'ye and eastern Lugansk oblasts observed DST 1990/1991.
 
 If it is subject for PR, the whole zonetime system is subject for PR because
 it requires separate timezone to reflect any local time specific in any
 past or future time. Moscow time in Crimea during 1994-1997 is fact.
 It isn't our task to discuss its political reasonness or resonance.
 It is question for timezone database maintainers to detect whether this base
 should keep past time specifics. If yes, and there are disk space, each
 request for reflecting local specific should be approved.
 If no, one should delete all specifications which affects any day before
 now, e.g., if now is 2003, any data for 2002 and earlier should be deleted.
 Or, more moderate approach, delete all non-computer epoch (for Unix, before
 1970). But this is -arch issue, or even Posix issue.
 
 Hence I treat this PR as incorrect. Igor, I think you should discuss it in
 -arch first.
 
 
 =netch=

From: Igor Karpov <jc@minjust.gov.ua>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc: Valentin Nechayev <netch@netch.kiev.ua>, wollman@lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: conf/47468: Sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine.
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:41:01 +0200

 On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 02:33:18PM +0200, Valentin Nechayev wrote:
 > Four different Ukrainian timezones are reflections not of current timezone,
 > and not of official regulations, but of former ones in quite historical times.
 > One can see, e.g., comment for definition of Crimea time:
 > 
 > # Central Crimea used Moscow time 1994/1997.
 > 
 > Or for other two non-standard zones:
 > 
 > # Ruthenia used CET 1990/1991.
 > # Zaporozh'ye and eastern Lugansk oblasts observed DST 1990/1991.
 > 
 > If it is subject for PR, the whole zonetime system is subject for PR because
 > it requires separate timezone to reflect any local time specific in any
 > past or future time. Moscow time in Crimea during 1994-1997 is fact.
 > It isn't our task to discuss its political reasonness or resonance.
 > It is question for timezone database maintainers to detect whether this base
 > should keep past time specifics. If yes, and there are disk space, each
 > request for reflecting local specific should be approved.
 > If no, one should delete all specifications which affects any day before
 > now, e.g., if now is 2003, any data for 2002 and earlier should be deleted.
 > Or, more moderate approach, delete all non-computer epoch (for Unix, before
 > 1970). But this is -arch issue, or even Posix issue.
 > 
 > Hence I treat this PR as incorrect. Igor, I think you should discuss it in
 > -arch first.
 
 Agreed. Sounds like a question for arch-. But I'm talking only about
 sysinstall behaiviour, not about timezone database itself.
 
 BTW, I've found the official document on this matter. It's goverment
 regulations number 509, May 13, 1996. In my poor translation it says:
 "Time in Ukraine is set to second timezone (Kiev time). Each last Sunday
 of March at 3am the time is changing to 4am and each last Sunday of
 October the time at 4am is changing to 3am"
 
 Regards,
 -- 
 Igor A. Karpov    phone: +380(44)238-0624
 Unix System Administrator                   
 
 		      "Cute" rots the intellect.

From: Garrett Wollman <wollman@lcs.mit.edu>
To: netch@netch.kiev.ua
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, jc@minjust.gov.ua
Subject: Re: conf/47468: Sysinstall offers different timezones for Ukraine.
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:03:02 -0500 (EST)

 <<On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:33:18 +0200, Valentin Nechayev <netch@netch.kiev.ua> said:
 
 > Four different Ukrainian timezones are reflections not of current
 > timezone, and not of official regulations, but of former ones in
 > quite historical times.  One can see, e.g., comment for definition
 > of Crimea time:
 
 It is the objective of the database maintainers to maintain one entry
 for every documented history of offsets-from-UTC for every country
 since the beginning of the epoch (1970-01-01).  This is necessary in
 order to be able to correctly process historical timestamps.
 
 To the extent historical information is available for dates prior to
 the beginning of the epoch, the database will also include it, but
 will not break out separate zones for differing histories.
 
 The FreeBSD Project defers to the design and maintenance decisions of
 the (third-party) timezone database maintainers, who are recognized
 experts on the topic.
 
 I hope this makes matters clearer.
 
 -GAWollman
 
>Unformatted:
