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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:54:41 GMT
From: Daniel Lin <linpct@gmail.com>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
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>Number:         138672
>Category:       conf
>Synopsis:       ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       high
>Responsible:    freebsd-bugs
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          update
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Wed Sep 09 18:00:03 UTC 2009
>Closed-Date:    Thu Nov 05 17:29:06 UTC 2009
>Last-Modified:  Thu Nov 05 17:29:06 UTC 2009
>Originator:     Daniel Lin
>Release:        FreeBSD 8.0-BETA4
>Organization:
>Environment:
>Description:
I got a FreeBSD 8.0-BETA4 ISO and want to install to a new machine, but I found that FreeBSD 8 using ISO-3166 to call Taiwan "Taiwan, Province of China". It's the politics problem and is NOT good for people living in Taiwan.

Same info can be see at:
 a. FreeBSD PR: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=68226 
 b. Debian mailing list : http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/04/msg00798.html
 c. FreeBSD mirror sites have the name, "Taiwan": http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mirrors-ftp.html

Please just call Taiwan "Taiwan" AS BEFORE. We are the people actually living there, and we do not like to see "Taiwan, Province of China" each time when installing FreeBSD.

Thanks!
>How-To-Repeat:

>Fix:


>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: Gavin Atkinson <gavin@FreeBSD.org>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call
 Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:46:58 +0100 (BST)

 The list of countries in sysinstall are generated from 
 src/share/misc/iso3166 which is based on the official ISO3166 list of 
 countries found at http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes.htm
 
 http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166-faqs/iso_3166_faqs_specific.htm
 provides justification for the use of this name by ISO.
 
 Please note that the first PR you cite, 68226, is actually requesting the 
 country name be changed the other way: In FreeBSD 5.2.1, the country was 
 named "Taiwan" in src/share/misc/iso3166 and that PR seems to be 
 requesting that is be referred to as "Taiwan Province of China".
 
 However, I will leave this PR open, as it appears from the link you 
 supplied that the Debian community at least have come to a clear consesnus 
 on this and feel the country should be referred to as "Taiwan".  I'm not 
 in a position to decide either way.
 
 Gavin

From: Denny Lin <dennylin93@cnmc32.hs.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:39:12 +0800

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 The term "Province of China" is polictically biased as mentioned in the
 Debian mailing list. Those who are familiar with the history of Taiwan
 should know that China has never been in control of Taiwan since the
 establishment of the Republic of China, the current governent that
 resides in Taiwan.
 
 The only reason the term exists is because of political pressure from
 the People's Republic of China. In every aspect, Taiwan is an
 independent country comparable to the United Kingdom, United States,
 Canada, and Australia. I also remember that there is an on going lawsuit
 trying to correct the country code in ISO 3166.
 
 Now the question is whether we should allow politics interefere with the
 FreeBSD Project. I am of the opinion that we shouldn't be politically
 biased.
 
 --=20
 Denny Lin
 
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State-Changed-From-To: open->suspended 
State-Changed-By: remko 
State-Changed-When: Thu Sep 10 17:00:08 UTC 2009 
State-Changed-Why:  
I think this is a real difficult and political problem. 
We try to make the world as best as possible for everyone 
unfortunatly this is not possible in this case; there will 
always be people sad because of the current line, no matter 
whether we will change this. 

For now we follow ISO3166, if that changes, we will change 
along. 

FreeBSD does not and will not be involved with world politics! 

Suspend the PR till the ISO changes (or prior if this gets 
outdated). 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=138672 

From: "Li-Lun \"Leland\" Wang" <llwang@infor.org>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call 
	Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:23:03 +0000

 While we follow ISO3166, ISO themselves have said many times (in
 responding to Taiwan's request to change the country name in ISO3166)
 that the ISO3166 standard defines only the "country codes," not the
 "country names."  SVN rev 189767 was intended to use "official English
 short country names."  However, since ISO3166 does not define country
 names, the only thing official in ISO3166 are the country codes.  The
 official name of a country should be up to the people of that country,
 not ISO or UN or anyone else.  If we need another "official" source of
 country names, check out for example the CIA world factbook:
 https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tw.html
 .  The conventional short form of the country name is listed as Taiwan
 in there.  CIA is at least a real government entity, while ISO is not.
  Since there are multiple "official" sources of country names, we
 should at least choose one that the people of the country in question
 prefers.  After all, where we use the country names (e.g. in
 sysinstall menu), is meant for the users in that country to recognize
 and choose.  Why should someone in another country care what some
 other country is called anyway?
 
 -- llwang

From: "Hung-Te Lin (piaip)" <hungte@gmail.com>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call 
	Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:16:06 +0800

 "FreeBSD does not and will not be involved with world politics! "
 I totally agree with this - but I think using ISO3166 is not a proper way
 when it comes to "country names".
 
 As the previous reply said, ISO3166 should be only used for the country cod=
 e,
 not the names - it's just a memo from the Maintenance Agency=E2=80=8E to
 identify the country,
 not a standard of country names.
 
 In fact, even IBM is not suggesting to use the names from ISO3166
 http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/topics/writing/references.jsp
 I believe the country names listed there are supposed to help people
 select their own
 country; in this way, a common (or usual) name used by most software
 is more prefered
 than a non-official memo field
 
 Let's look at PR 68226 again: it's a request trying to change some
 country's name,
 by the name of ISO3166. However the FreeBSD commiter apparently knows the
 reporter's intention, so he replied "I think that's no the technical
 problem, it's the politics problem."
 
 Also look at PR 68495 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D68495
 The FreeBSD maintainers again declared to keep the name.
 
 In order to prevent getting involed with politics, I suggest following
 the strategy of 68226
 and 68495 to keep the names instead of using ISO3166.
 
 Just like PR68495 said, "The FreeBSD installation only wants to know
 where you approximately live",
 so the names listed there should be a neutral geographic term instead
 of political Nationality names -
 which we should remove the terms like "Province of XXX".
 
 I also found some articles discussing ISO3166 in open source world:
 http://yllan.org/blog/archives/296
 "I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s a clever way to ease a controversial is=
 sue by
 replacing a neutral term
  with political term just because the political term come with a so
 called =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for OTHER thing."
 "A standard isn=E2=80=99t necessary to be political correct in all contexts=
 .
 eg. you may insult many people
  by simply adopt the definition of some terms in Webster 2nd ed. There
 is no reason you should
  blindly follow a standard if you know that=E2=80=99s problematic. There is=
  no
 reason you just blame the
  questioners barking up the wrong tree without correct the error in
 your product."

From: Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu>
To: gavin@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call
 Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:13:37 -0400 (EDT)

 In article <mit.lcs.mail.freebsd-bugs/200909091950.n89Jo4As036069@freefall.freebsd.org> you write:
 
 > The list of countries in sysinstall are generated from 
 > src/share/misc/iso3166 which is based on the official ISO3166 list of 
 > countries found at http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes.htm
 
 Note that ISO 3166 assigns "country" codes to many things which are
 not countries, but for which it is convenient to have a standardized
 code.  (Including, for example, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the
 U.S. Virgin Islands, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands,
 and the "United States Minor Outlying Islands".)  So, as ISO itself
 states, it should not be considered as taking a position on who has
 authority to say what the name of any particular entity is.
 
 -GAWollman
 

From: Forte Lin <forte.at@gmail.com>
To: bug-followup@freebsd.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call 
	Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:30:25 +0800

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 <br>
 
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From: d95007@csie.ntu.edu.tw
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan
 "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:37:04 +0800

 Dear all,
 
 According to article 2 of the 1895 Treaty of Shimonoseki, Qing Empire  
 has ceded to Japan in perpetuity and full sovereignty several  
 territories including Taiwan and the Pescadores (Penghu). So Taiwan  
 became part of the Japanese territory.
 
 On 1951/9/8, Japan and 48 other countries signed the San Francisco  
 Peace Treaty.
 According to its article 2(b), Japan has renounced all right, title  
 and claim to Taiwan and the Pescadores. Note that China is a non-party  
 to the treaty. So, according to article 25, China was not given any  
 right, title or claim to Taiwan and the Pescadores!
 
 Hence Taiwan cannot be a province of China.
 
 
 Best regards,
 
 Ching-Lueh Chang
 
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
 This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
 
 

From: Wei-Chun Kao <wckao@cs.berkeley.edu>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:45:57 -0700

 --Apple-Mail-1--407549783
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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 	delsp=yes
 
 I support changing it back to Taiwan for the following reasons.
 
 1) As stated in PR6845, "The FreeBSD installation only wants to know  
 where you approximately live".
 For that purpose, it is most useful to choose a synonym that is  
 recognized by most people.
 If you search these two terms on the web, you will see that most of  
 the people use "Taiwan" instead
 of "Taiwan, Province of China".
 ( ref. http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Taiwan&word2=Taiwan%2C+Province+of+China 
   )
 
 2) The term "Taiwan, Province of China" is very offensive to people  
 come from Taiwan.
 It is strange to blindly use a controversial term in standard just  
 because it is a "standard" and ignore
 the feeling of the people that you are attaching that term to. In the  
 end, I think
 people have the right to choose what their living place to be called.
 
 3) Even in the US Law, people use the term "Taiwan" to refer to  
 "Taiwan".
 (ref. http://www.ait.org.tw/en/about_ait/tra/ )
 
 So it is very clear that Taiwan is a better choice because more people  
 use it and
 less people are offended by it.
 
 
 Wei-Chun.
 --Apple-Mail-1--407549783
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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 	charset=us-ascii
 
 <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I support changing it back to =
 Taiwan for the following reasons.<div><br></div><div>1) As stated in =
 PR6845, "<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: verdana, =
 sans-serif; font-size: 11px; ">The FreeBSD&nbsp;installation only wants =
 to know where you approximately live".</span></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">For that purpose, =
 it is most useful to choose a synonym that is recognized by most =
 people.</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">If you search these two terms on the web, you =
 will see that most of the people use "Taiwan" =
 instead&nbsp;</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">of "Taiwan, Province of =
 China".</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">( ref. <a =
 href=3D"http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=3Den_GB&amp;word1=3DTaiw=
 an&amp;word2=3DTaiwan%2C+Province+of+China">http://www.googlefight.com/ind=
 ex.php?lang=3Den_GB&amp;word1=3DTaiwan&amp;word2=3DTaiwan%2C+Province+of+C=
 hina</a> )</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">2) The term =
 "Taiwan, Province of China" is very offensive to people come from =
 Taiwan.</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">It is strange to blindly use a controversial =
 term in standard just because it is a "standard" and =
 ignore&nbsp;</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">the feeling of the people that you are =
 attaching that term to. In the end, I =
 think</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">people have the right to choose what their =
 living place to be called.</span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 11px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">3) Even in the US Law, people use the term =
 "Taiwan" to refer to "Taiwan".</span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">(ref. <a =
 href=3D"http://www.ait.org.tw/en/about_ait/tra/">http://www.ait.org.tw/en/=
 about_ait/tra/</a> )</span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 11px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">So it is very clear that Taiwan is a better =
 choice because more people use it and</span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">less people are =
 offended by it.&nbsp;</span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 11px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 11px;">Wei-Chun.</span></font></div></body></html>=
 
 --Apple-Mail-1--407549783--

From: Kang-min Liu <gugod@gugod.org>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org,
 linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:10:03 +0900

 Although it has been stated several times that it's a political
 problem instead of a technical ones, it shall be also pointed
 out, the decision of simply following ISO 3166 in FreeBSD is
 nonetheless, political.
 
 The ISO 3166 FAQ has an entry on the naming of Taiwan issue:
 
      http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166-faqs/iso_3166_faqs_specific.htm
 
 Please notices the facts that:
 
 - UN holds strong positions in the making ISO 3166
 - Taiwan has never been the member of UN
 - The names in ISO 3166-1 are taken from United Nations sources
 
 Being a technology leading country, I guess Taiwan has been
 politically weak for way too long. The application to be UN
 member has been failed for very long time. It's not like Taiwan
 government has never put effort on it, they tried, for tens of
 years, but the political force against their efforts has been
 huge.
 
 Is it really politically neutral to follow ISO 3316 ? Please
 re-think about it. It is indeed very technically convienent to
 simply use ISO 3316 database because it contains a lots of
 country names. But the outcome of leaping without thinking, could
 be very bad.
 
 I've always think it's fairly neutral not to use "Country"
 selector in but "Region" selector (in whatever program UI.)
 Region is a much better choice since the word itself doesn't not
 refer to political identity of the its residents.
 

From: Christian Huang <ythuang@gmail.com>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call 
	Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:24:12 +0800

 It's really a simple problem,
 RESPECT the people leaving in that region and use the appropriate name
 to address them.
 The current name you have chosen to use, though provided by ISO, is
 already known to be offensive,
 so why use it?
 
 
 hyt.

From: Yen-Ming Lee <leeym@FreeBSD.org>
To: bug-followup@freebsd.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call 
	Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:14:54 -0700

 Obviously "Taiwan, Province of China" will piss off the users and
 committers in Taiwan.
 
 As discussed before, please respect our culture and simply call us "Taiwan".
 See http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/cvs-doc/2008-August/018884.html
 
 Thanks,
 -- 
 Yen-Ming Lee

From: Edward Chuang <edwardchuang@gmail.com>
To: bug-followup@freebsd.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call 
	Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:53:13 +0800

 Folks,
 
 Basically, as a Taiwanese, I second that is strongly offensive to
 people from Taiwan using the term "Taiwan, Province of China".
 Ironically, Taiwan authority never join the constitute of ISO 3166.
 
 I think this political issue will *NOT* be solved in the near future
 (well, before the shipping date of 8.0-R, even the 10.0-R). The best
 way to get rid of controversies is use the term "Country / Region"
 instead of "Country". And calling "Taiwan" as previously used.
 
 Thanks and please respect our culture.
 
 --Ed

From: "Li-Lun Wang (Leland Wang)" <llwang@infor.org>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call
 Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:55:20 +0800

 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 Hash: SHA1
 
 I agree with Kang-min's opinion.  FreeBSD, as well as any project that
 tries to be political neutral, should not use country names listed in
 the ISO3166 table as the official source of country names.  The ISO3166
 standard defines only country codes, not country names.  The country
 names listed in the ISO3166 table is simply taken from the UN source,
 which is by no means political neutral, as Taiwan is not a member of
 the UN, and therefore is not listed in the UN's bulletin of country
 names, and does not have a say in its own name in the UN.  By using the
 country names listed in the ISO3166 table, we become political biased
 to the UN, offend users in Taiwan, without being any more standard
 compliant.
 
 - -- llwang
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From: Whiteg Weng <whiteg@whiteg.net>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:04:57 +0800

 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
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 ISO 3166 is not an adequate solution to handle the political issue  
 between Taiwan and China, nor is it a political-neutral solution as  
 Kang-min Liu has explained.
 
 However, the Freebsd community has been quite political-neutral by  
 respecting the voice of Taiwanese Freebsd users. We are not requesting  
 for a privilege, we just want the Freebsd community to be like how it  
 was before.
 
 Please use "Country/Region" in the UI and keep "Taiwan" as "Taiwan"  
 instead of "Taiwan, Province of China".
 
 Cheers.
 Whiteg
 
 
 
 --Apple-Mail-31-974106731
 Content-Type: text/html;
 	charset=US-ASCII
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">ISO 3166 is not =
 an&nbsp;adequate solution to handle the political issue between Taiwan =
 and China, nor is it a political-neutral solution as&nbsp;<span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: verdana, sans-serif; =
 font-size: 11px; ">Kang-min Liu has explained.</span><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 11px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 11px;">However, the Freebsd community has been quite =
 p<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
 font-size: medium; ">olitical-neutral by respecting the voice of =
 Taiwanese Freebsd users. We are not requesting for a privilege, we just =
 want the Freebsd community to be like how it was =
 before.</span></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"Helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px;"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
 medium; ">Please use "Country/Region" in the UI and keep "Taiwan" as =
 "Taiwan" instead of "Taiwan<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-family: verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; ">, Province =
 of China".</span></span></span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px;"><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica, sans-serif"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 medium;"><br></span></font></span></font><div> <span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
 border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
 font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
 normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
 -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
 -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
 white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div =
 style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
 -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; =
 "><div>Cheers.</div><div>Whiteg</div><br =
 class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span> =
 </div><br></div></body></html>=
 
 --Apple-Mail-31-974106731--
 
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 --Apple-Mail-32-974107130--

From: c9s <cornelius.howl@gmail.com>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org,
 linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:41:54 +0800

 --Apple-Mail-21--865159617
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 	charset=us-ascii;
 	format=flowed;
 	delsp=yes
 
 like what Kang-min Liu said,
 
 "Although it has been stated several times that it's a political
 problem instead of a technical ones, it shall be also pointed
 out, the decision of simply following ISO 3166 in FreeBSD is
 nonetheless, political."
 
 and you said you freebsd will not be invoived with world politics ?
 
  > FreeBSD does not and will not be involved with world politics!
  > Suspend the PR till the ISO changes (or prior if this gets
  > outdated).
 
 wtf , if you pretend to "We try to make the world as best as possible  
 for everyone",
 that's very *DISGUSTED*
 
 you should REMOVE IT. if you're not going to remove the "Province of  
 china"
 then **I WILL NOT TO USE FreeBSD ANYMORE**!
 --Apple-Mail-21--865159617
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Content-Type: text/html;
 	charset=us-ascii
 
 <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
 -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: verdana, sans-serif; =
 font-size: 14px; "><div>like what Kang-min Liu =
 said,</div><div><br></div><div>"Although it has been stated several =
 times that it's a political<br>problem instead of a technical ones, it =
 shall be also pointed<br>out, the decision of simply following ISO 3166 =
 in FreeBSD is<br>nonetheless, political."</div><div><br></div><div>and =
 you said you freebsd will not be invoived with world politics =
 ?</div><div><br></div>&gt; FreeBSD does not and will not be involved =
 with world politics!&nbsp;<br>&gt; Suspend the PR till the ISO changes =
 (or prior if this gets&nbsp;<br>&gt; outdated).</span><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"4"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 14px;">wtf , if you pretend to "We try to make the =
 world as best as possible for everyone",</span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"4"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 14px;">that's very =
 *DISGUSTED*</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" size=3D"4"><span =
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 14px;">you should REMOVE =
 IT. if you're not going to remove the "Province of =
 china"</span></font></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
 style=3D"font-family: verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">then **I =
 WILL NOT TO USE FreeBSD ANYMORE**!</span></div></body></html>=
 
 --Apple-Mail-21--865159617--

From: Denny Lin <dennylin93@cnmc32.hs.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, linpct@gmail.com
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/138672: ISO 3166 call Taiwan a wrong name, please call Taiwan "Taiwan" as before.
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:34:08 +0800

 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb
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 There's no need to flame anyone; the problem can be solved in a
 civilized manner.
 
 I don't know if anyone's still following this PR, but I'd like to add
 something.
 
 As remko@ mentioned earlier:
 > We try to make the world as best as possible for everyone
 > unfortunatly this is not possible in this case; there will
 > always be people sad because of the current line, no matter
 > whether we will change this.
 
 I believe that reverting back to "Taiwan" would probably end this
 dispute, since it is a better option in my opinion.
 
 As far as I know, many users of FreeBSD in Taiwan have been pissed of by
 the use of "Taiwan, Province of China." However, no one has complained
 about the name "Taiwan" yet. The people who have submitted followups
 either have 1) a neutral status or 2) would like to see "Province of
 China" removed. Therefore, changing the name back to "Taiwan" would
 probably keep everyone happy.
 
 If there are any users who support the addition of "Province of China,"
 I urge them so speak up. If no one does, then there isn't a justified
 reason to keep "Province of China" attached.
 
 --=20
 Denny Lin
 
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 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb--
State-Changed-From-To: suspended->closed 
State-Changed-By: remko 
State-Changed-When: Thu Nov 5 17:29:05 UTC 2009 
State-Changed-Why:  
This had been reverted as per request of core. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=138672 
>Unformatted:
