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From: <scottd@cloud9.net>
Reply-To: scottd@cloud9.net
To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Problems entering daylight time
X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2

>Number:         10947
>Category:       conf
>Synopsis:       Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or other 2am jobs)
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       low
>Responsible:    sheldonh
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          sw-bug
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Sun Apr  4 11:30:01 PDT 1999
>Closed-Date:    Wed Aug 11 06:33:40 PDT 1999
>Last-Modified:  Wed Aug 11 06:36:27 PDT 1999
>Originator:     Scott Drassinower
>Release:        FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386
>Organization:
Cloud 9 Consulting, Inc.
>Environment:

2.2.7-STABLE, also 3.1-RELEASE

>Description:

Daylight time (at least in the US) begins at 2am.  By default, /etc/daily runs
at 2am, so when the clock changes from 01:59 to 03:00, any cron jobs set to 
run at the 2am hour will get skipped.  Every n minute jobs get skipped also, 
but that isn't as bad as having something that specifically runs at the 2am
hour getting lost.

I wonder how cron acts when we get the hour back in the fall.

>How-To-Repeat:

Install FreeBSD 2.2.7 or 3.1, wait for daylight time to begin, and see that
/etc/daily or anything else that you have running between 02:00 and 02:59
on that day will not run.

>Fix:
	
Do not run things at 2am, and include a little note in the crontab file about
this.  It may not be a good idea to have cron go and rerun 02:00 to 02:59 
missed jobs. 


>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: "Jos M Alcaide" <jose@we.lc.ehu.es>
To: scottd@cloud9.net
Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Problems entering daylight time
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:52:11 +0200

 scottd@cloud9.net wrote:
 > 
 > Daylight time (at least in the US) begins at 2am.  By default, /etc/daily runs
 > at 2am, so when the clock changes from 01:59 to 03:00, any cron jobs set to
 > run at the 2am hour will get skipped.  Every n minute jobs get skipped also,
 > but that isn't as bad as having something that specifically runs at the 2am
 > hour getting lost.
 > 
 
 This problem also affects to all the European Union. I vote for
 moving forward the start time of the "daily" scripts.
 
 -- JMA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jos M Alcaide                         | mailto:jose@we.lc.ehu.es
 Universidad del Pas Vasco              | mailto:jmas@es.FreeBSD.ORG
 Dpto. de Electricidad y Electrnica     | http://www.we.lc.ehu.es/~jose
 Facultad de Ciencias - Campus de Lejona | Tel.:  +34-946012479
 48940 Lejona (Vizcaya) - SPAIN          | Fax:   +34-944858139
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                "Go ahead... make my day." - H. Callahan
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, scottd@cloud9.net
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or
 other 2am jobs)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:04:22 -0400 (EDT)

 Here's a quick patch to include a notice in /etc/crontab.
 
 SB
 
 --- crontab	Tue Aug  3 16:59:01 1999
 +++ crontab.new	Tue Aug  3 17:01:11 1999
 @@ -14,6 +14,9 @@
  0	*	*	*	*	root	newsyslog
  #
  # do daily/weekly/monthly maintenance
 +# Note that any jobs scheduled for 2AM will be affected twice a year if your
 +# system is set to observe Daylight Savings Time.
 +#
  0       2       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
  30      3       *       *       6       root    periodic weekly 2>&1 | sendmail root
  30      5       1       *       *       root    periodic monthly 2>&1 | sendmail root
 
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>,
	scottd@cloud9.net
Cc: Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or
 other 2am jobs)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:34:54 -0400 (EDT)

 OK, here's another diff that should (hopefully) be general enough for
 universal distribution.
 
 --- crontab	Tue Aug  3 16:59:01 1999
 +++ crontab.new	Mon Aug  9 13:32:51 1999
 @@ -14,6 +14,15 @@
  0	*	*	*	*	root	newsyslog
  #
  # do daily/weekly/monthly maintenance
 +#
 +# Note: if you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observe Daylight
 +# Savings Time, jobs scheduled during the rollback or advance will be
 +# affected.  
 +# In general, it's not a good idea to schedule jobs during this period. 
 +# US users (except parts of IN, AZ, and HI): the time shift occurs at
 +# 2AM local time.
 +# International users: please check /usr/src/share/zoneinfo.
 +#
  0       2       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
  30      3       *       *       6       root    periodic weekly 2>&1 | sendmail root
  30      5       1       *       *       root    periodic monthly 2>&1 | sendmail root
 
 Any chance you could commit this and close the PR?  Thanks.
 
 SB
 
 On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Andre Albsmeier wrote:
 
 > On Tue, 03-Aug-1999 at 20:26:51 -0400, Seth wrote:
 > > I'll reconfirm.  I just checked w/ a friend in England, and have an email
 > > out to someone in Germany.  England says definitely 2AM local (GMT).  How
 > > recent is that file?
 > 
 > IIRC, in Germany it is as follows:
 > 
 > On the last sunday in march at 2AM local (non daylight saving) time
 > (== 1AM UTC) the clocks jump to 3AM local (daylight saving) time.
 > 
 > On the last sunday in october at 3AM local (daylight saving) time
 > (== 1AM UTC) the clocks jump to 2AM local (non daylight saving) time.
 > 
 > So if the u in the AT column stands for UTC it is correct.
 > 
 > 	-Andre
 > 
 > 
 > > 
 > > SB
 > > 
 > > 
 > > On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote:
 > > 
 > > > <<On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:48:41 -0400 (EDT), Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org> said:
 > > > 
 > > > > AFAIK, those European countries that observe DST (or equivalent) switch at
 > > > > 2AM.
 > > > 
 > > > Nope.  Go read /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/europe:
 > > > 
 > > > # EU rules are for the European Union, previously known as the EC, EEC,
 > > > # Common Market, etc.
 > > > 
 > > > # Rule	NAME	FROM	TO	TYPE	IN	ON	AT	SAVE	LETTER/S
 > > > Rule	EU	1977	1980	-	Apr	Sun>=1	 1:00u	1:00	S
 > > > Rule	EU	1977	only	-	Sep	lastSun	 1:00u	0	-
 > > > Rule	EU	1978	only	-	Oct	 1	 1:00u	0	-
 > > > Rule	EU	1979	1995	-	Sep	lastSun	 1:00u	0	-
 > > > Rule	EU	1981	max	-	Mar	lastSun	 1:00u	1:00	S
 > > > Rule	EU	1996	max	-	Oct	lastSun	 1:00u	0	-
 > > > 
 > > > -GAWollman
 > > > 
 > > > --
 > > > Garrett A. Wollman   | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same
 > > > wollman@lcs.mit.edu  | O Siem / The fires of freedom 
 > > > Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame
 > > > MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA|                     - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick
 > > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
 > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-bugs" in the body of the message
 > 
 > -- 
 > esa$ gcc -Wall -o ariane5 ariane5.c 
 > ariane5.c: 666: warning: long float implicitly truncated to unsigned type
 > esa$ ./ariane5
 > 
 
 

From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
To: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>
Cc: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or
 other 2am jobs) 
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:53:50 -0700 (PDT)

 On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
 
 > I like the comment,
 
 	I think it may be too verbose. How about something like, 
 
 # If your time zone acknowledges Daylight Savings Time job
 # scheduling can be affected. Please plan accordingly.
 
  and suggest we move this one up one minute:
 
 > from
 > > 0       2       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
 > 
 > to
 > > 59      1       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
 
 	I made this suggestion the last time this debate happened, and
 even though this solves the problem in like 80% of the time zones my
 proposal was rejected because it wasn't universally effective (in spite of
 the fact that there is no universal solution and this was the best
 option). I've put it on all of my systems for years now and never had a
 problem if that means anything to anyone. 
 
 Doug
 
 

From: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>
To: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Cc: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or other 2am jobs) 
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:57:52 +0200

 Doug,
 
 I committed the one minute change. The comment really belongs
 in cron's manpage, could you check if the problem is adequately
 handled there, and if not send me a patch ?
 
 thanks!
 
 Poul-Henning
 
 --
 Poul-Henning Kamp             FreeBSD coreteam member
 phk@FreeBSD.ORG               "Real hackers run -current on their laptop."
 FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far!
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or
 other 2am jobs)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:57:22 -0400 (EDT)

 On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Doug wrote:
 
 > On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
 > 
 > > I like the comment,
 > 
 > 	I think it may be too verbose. How about something like, 
 > 
 > # If your time zone acknowledges Daylight Savings Time job
 > # scheduling can be affected. Please plan accordingly.
 
 I don't think that fully explains the problem... it might be adequate for
 crontab, but something should be mentioned in the manpage (per phk's
 suggestion), and a reference in crontab to the manpage.  Would you like me
 to take a stab at getting the diffs for both crontab and the manpage?
 
 SB
 
 

From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or
 other 2am jobs)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:17:16 -0700 (PDT)

 On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Seth wrote:
 
 > 
 > 
 > On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Doug wrote:
 > 
 > > On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
 > > 
 > > > I like the comment,
 > > 
 > > 	I think it may be too verbose. How about something like, 
 > > 
 > > # If your time zone acknowledges Daylight Savings Time job
 > > # scheduling can be affected. Please plan accordingly.
 > 
 > I don't think that fully explains the problem... 
 
 	Depends on how many brain cells are rubbing together in the
 reader's head. :)
 
 > it might be adequate for
 > crontab, but something should be mentioned in the manpage (per phk's
 > suggestion), and a reference in crontab to the manpage.  Would you like me
 > to take a stab at getting the diffs for both crontab and the manpage?
 
 	Sure, actually fixing the time the job is scheduled for was my
 goal all along. :)
 
 Doug
 -- 
 On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only
 nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter
 what it does.
                 -- Will Rogers
 
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or
 other 2am jobs)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:42:23 -0400 (EDT)

 OK.  Two diffs below.  First is for the manpage (crontab(5)).  Second is 
 for crontab itself.  Note that the 2:00 job has been changed to
 1:59 per phk and Doug.  Hopefully we can close this soon :)
 
 First diff (crontab(5)):
 
 --- crontab.5	Tue Aug 10 07:25:28 1999
 +++ crontab.5.new	Tue Aug 10 07:35:30 1999
 @@ -137,6 +137,16 @@
       the feature can be turned off and no mail will be sent at all (SysV can't
       do this either).
  
 +BBUUGGSS
 +     If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 +     Savings Time, jobs scheduled during the rollback or advance will be
 +     affected.  In general, it's not a good idea to schedule jobs during
 +     this period. 
 +
 +     US users (except parts of IN, AZ, and HI): the time shift occurs at
 +     2AM local time.  International users: please check
 +     _/_u_s_r_/_s_r_c_/_s_h_a_r_e_/_z_o_n_e_i_n_f_o.
 +
  AAUUTTHHOORRSS
       Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
  
 
 Next diff (crontab):
 
 --- crontab	Tue Aug  3 16:59:01 1999
 +++ crontab.new	Tue Aug 10 07:41:21 1999
 @@ -14,7 +14,12 @@
  0	*	*	*	*	root	newsyslog
  #
  # do daily/weekly/monthly maintenance
 -0       2       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
 +#
 +# If your time zone acknowledges Daylight Savings Time, job
 +# scheduling can be affected. Please plan accordingly.  See
 +# crontab(5) for more information.
 +#
 +59      1       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
  30      3       *       *       6       root    periodic weekly 2>&1 | sendmail root
  30      5       1       *       *       root    periodic monthly 2>&1 | sendmail root
  #
 
 
 
 Thanks!
 
 SB
 
 On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Doug wrote:
 
 > 
 > 	Sure, actually fixing the time the job is scheduled for was my
 > goal all along. :)
 > 
 > Doug
 > -- 
 > On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only
 > nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter
 > what it does.
 >                 -- Will Rogers
 > 
 
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc:  
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight savings blows crontab
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:41:30 +0200

 Mis-filed follow-up follows, although I've no idea why it wasn't filed
 with the correct PR.
 
 Ciao,
 Sheldon. 
 
 ------- Forwarded Message
 
 Message-Id: <24860.934220984@critter.freebsd.dk>
 Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:49:44 +0200
 From: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>
 To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
 Cc: Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>,
 	scottd@cloud9.net, Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
 	freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:34:54 EDT."
              <Pine.BSF.4.10.9908091329300.67572-100000@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org> 
 Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or other 2am jobs) 
 
 >Number:         13044
 >Category:       pending
 >Synopsis:       Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (or other 2am jobs)
 >Confidential:   yes
 >Severity:       serious
 >Priority:       medium
 >Responsible:    gnats-admin
 >State:          open
 >Quarter:        
 >Keywords:       
 >Date-Required:  
 >Class:          sw-bug
 >Submitter-Id:   current-users
 >Arrival-Date:   Mon Aug  9 11:00:01 PDT 1999
 >Closed-Date:    
 >Last-Modified:  
 >Originator:     
 >Release:        
 >Organization:
 >Environment:
 >Description:
  In message <Pine.BSF.4.10.9908091329300.67572-100000@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>, Seth writes:
  >OK, here's another diff that should (hopefully) be general enough for
  >universal distribution.
  
  I like the comment, and suggest we move this one up one minute:
  
  from
  > 0       2       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
  
  to
  > 59      1       *       *       *       root    periodic daily 2>&1 | sendmail root
  
  Poul-Henning
  
  --
  Poul-Henning Kamp             FreeBSD coreteam member
  phk@FreeBSD.ORG               "Real hackers run -current on their laptop."
  FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far!
  
 >How-To-Repeat:
 >Fix:
 >Release-Note:
 >Audit-Trail:
 >Unformatted:
 
 
 ------- End of Forwarded Message
 
 
Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->sheldonh 
Responsible-Changed-By: sheldonh 
Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Aug 10 08:43:52 PDT 1999 
Responsible-Changed-Why:  
The /etc/crontab fix has been committed by phk, I'll apply 
Seth's diff to crontab(5) shortly. 

From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily (orother 
 2am jobs)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:40:34 -0700

 Seth wrote:
 > 
 > OK.  Two diffs below.  First is for the manpage (crontab(5)).  Second is
 > for crontab itself. 
 
 	Your text looks good. The one change I would suggest is to make the man
 page entry under NOTES, not BUGS since this isn't a bug. cron is doing
 exactly what you tell it to, you're just not telling it to do something
 very smart if you schedule a job at the hour when daylight savings kicks
 in. :)
 
 Thanks for following through on this,
 
 Doug
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: mpp@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, Doug@gorean.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight savings and cron
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:47:07 +0200

 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:50:02 MST, Doug wrote:
 
 >       Your text looks good. The one change I would suggest is to make
 >  the man page entry under NOTES, not BUGS since this isn't a bug.
 >  cron is doing exactly what you tell it to, you're just not telling
 >  it to do something very smart if you schedule a job at the hour when
 >  daylight savings kicks in. :)
 
 Hi Mike,
 
 Could you have a look at PR 10947 and let me know whether you think
 Seth's proposed text should go into BUGS or NOTES? I reckon it should be
 BUGS, but Doug Barton's suggested NOTES as a more appropriate section.
 
 Thanks,
 Sheldon.
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:49:59 +0200

 Hi Seth,
 
 I'm looking at your proposed text for crontab(5). I'd prefer to keep
 references to /usr/src out of the manpage, since such references don't
 help folks who don't install the src distribution.
 
 Of course, the problem is that the information in /usr/share/zoneinfo is
 precompiled and I can't think of an easy way to use zdump(8) to show
 only the pertinent information.
 
 Any alternative ideas?
 
 Ciao,
 Sheldon.
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>,
	Andre Albsmeier <andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de>, scottd@cloud9.net,
	Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Entering daylight time at 2am loses /etc/daily
 (orother 2am jobs)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:09:21 -0400 (EDT)

 OK.  Diff to crontab(5) below, changed BUGS to NOTES per request.
 
 SB
 
 --- crontab.5	Tue Aug 10 07:25:28 1999
 +++ crontab.5.new	Tue Aug 10 12:08:13 1999
 @@ -137,6 +137,16 @@
       the feature can be turned off and no mail will be sent at all (SysV can't
       do this either).
  
 +NNOOTTEESS
 +     If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 +     Savings Time, jobs scheduled during the rollback or advance will be
 +     affected.  In general, it's not a good idea to schedule jobs during
 +     this period. 
 +
 +     US users (except parts of IN, AZ, and HI): the time shift occurs at
 +     2AM local time.  International users: please check
 +     _/_u_s_r_/_s_r_c_/_s_h_a_r_e_/_z_o_n_e_i_n_f_o.
 +
  AAUUTTHHOORRSS
       Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
  
 
 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Doug wrote:
 
 > Seth wrote:
 > > 
 > > OK.  Two diffs below.  First is for the manpage (crontab(5)).  Second is
 > > for crontab itself. 
 > 
 > 	Your text looks good. The one change I would suggest is to make the man
 > page entry under NOTES, not BUGS since this isn't a bug. cron is doing
 > exactly what you tell it to, you're just not telling it to do something
 > very smart if you schedule a job at the hour when daylight savings kicks
 > in. :)
 > 
 > Thanks for following through on this,
 > 
 > Doug
 > 
 
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:00:23 -0400 (EDT)

 Understood.  How about moving /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/* into
 /usr/share/zoneinfo/rules or something?  I think there's important
 information in there that should be installed in any case.  Opinions?
 
 SB
 
 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 
 > 
 > Hi Seth,
 > 
 > I'm looking at your proposed text for crontab(5). I'd prefer to keep
 > references to /usr/src out of the manpage, since such references don't
 > help folks who don't install the src distribution.
 > 
 > Of course, the problem is that the information in /usr/share/zoneinfo is
 > precompiled and I can't think of an easy way to use zdump(8) to show
 > only the pertinent information.
 > 
 > Any alternative ideas?
 > 
 > Ciao,
 > Sheldon.
 > 
 
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, mpp@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron 
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:45:41 +0200

 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:23:50 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 
 > >  Understood.  How about moving /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/* into
 > >  /usr/share/zoneinfo/rules or something?
 > 
 > I think that's a good idea, assuming we can't get zdump to dump more
 > useful information.
 
 Hmmm. Rather than turning this into a nasty dependancy tree of fixes,
 how about the following until there's more readable zoneinfo in a
 binary-only installation?
 
 Low-hanging fruit indeed... ;-)
 
 Ciao,
 Sheldon.
 
 Index: crontab.5
 ===================================================================
 RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/cron/crontab/crontab.5,v
 retrieving revision 1.9
 diff -u -d -r1.9 crontab.5
 --- crontab.5	1999/07/27 16:39:02	1.9
 +++ crontab.5	1999/08/10 21:41:37
 @@ -221,5 +221,17 @@
  mailed to a person other than the crontab owner (SysV can't do this), or the
  feature can be turned off and no mail will be sent at all (SysV can't do this
  either).
 +.Sh BUGS
 +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observe Daylight
 +Savings Time, jobs scheduled during the rollback or advance will be
 +affected.  In general, it's not a good idea to schedule jobs during
 +this period. 
 +.Pp
 +For US timezones (except parts of IN, AZ, and HI) the time shift occurs at
 +2AM local time.  For others, the output of the
 +.Xr zdump 8
 +program's verbose
 +.Fl ( v )
 +option can be used to determine the moment of time shift.
  .Sh AUTHORS
  .An Paul Vixie Aq paul@vix.com
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, mpp@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0400 (EDT)

 Sounds great.  However, please note that at the request of someone on the
 thread, we've changed the BUGS to NOTES.  Here's the final diff (with your
 changes):
 
 --- crontab.5	Tue Aug 10 18:08:12 1999
 +++ crontab.5.new	Tue Aug 10 18:09:52 1999
 @@ -221,5 +221,17 @@
  mailed to a person other than the crontab owner (SysV can't do this), or the
  feature can be turned off and no mail will be sent at all (SysV can't do this
  either).
 +.Sh NOTES
 +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 +Savings Time, jobs scheduled during the rollback or advance will be
 +affected.  In general, it's not a good idea to schedule jobs during 
 +this period.
 +.Pp
 +For US timezones (except parts of IN, AZ, and HI), the time shift
 +occurs at 2AM local time.  For others, the output of the
 +.Xr zdump 8
 +program's verbose
 +.Fl ( v ) 
 +option can be used to determine the moment of time shift.
  .Sh AUTHORS
  .An Paul Vixie Aq paul@vix.com
 
 
 SB
 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 
 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:23:50 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 > 
 > > >  Understood.  How about moving /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/* into
 > > >  /usr/share/zoneinfo/rules or something?
 > > 
 > > I think that's a good idea, assuming we can't get zdump to dump more
 > > useful information.
 > 
 > Hmmm. Rather than turning this into a nasty dependancy tree of fixes,
 > how about the following until there's more readable zoneinfo in a
 > binary-only installation?
 > 
 > Low-hanging fruit indeed... ;-)
 > 
 > Ciao,
 > Sheldon.
 > 
 > Index: crontab.5
 > ===================================================================
 > RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/cron/crontab/crontab.5,v
 > retrieving revision 1.9
 > diff -u -d -r1.9 crontab.5
 > --- crontab.5	1999/07/27 16:39:02	1.9
 > +++ crontab.5	1999/08/10 21:41:37
 > @@ -221,5 +221,17 @@
 >  mailed to a person other than the crontab owner (SysV can't do this), or the
 >  feature can be turned off and no mail will be sent at all (SysV can't do this
 >  either).
 > +.Sh BUGS
 > +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observe Daylight
 > +Savings Time, jobs scheduled during the rollback or advance will be
 > +affected.  In general, it's not a good idea to schedule jobs during
 > +this period. 
 > +.Pp
 > +For US timezones (except parts of IN, AZ, and HI) the time shift occurs at
 > +2AM local time.  For others, the output of the
 > +.Xr zdump 8
 > +program's verbose
 > +.Fl ( v )
 > +option can be used to determine the moment of time shift.
 >  .Sh AUTHORS
 >  .An Paul Vixie Aq paul@vix.com
 > 
 
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, mpp@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:14:53 +0200

 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0400, Seth wrote:
 
 > Sounds great.  However, please note that at the request of someone on the
 > thread, we've changed the BUGS to NOTES.  Here's the final diff (with your
 > changes):
 
 I've asked Mike Pritchard for his opinion on BUGS vs NOTES, since he's
 pretty much Mr Manpage. Also, the diff you've sent reverts a grammatical
 correction I sneaked in:
 
 > +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 						^^^^^^^^^^
 It's "countries that observe", not "one that ovbserves". :-)
 
 Later,
 Sheldon.
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, mpp@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:23:33 -0400 (EDT)

 Yeah, you're right about the grammatical fix.  Believe it or not, I had
 yours originally, and someone suggested that it was wrong.  Silly me. :)
 
 SB
 
 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 
 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0400, Seth wrote:
 > 
 > > Sounds great.  However, please note that at the request of someone on the
 > > thread, we've changed the BUGS to NOTES.  Here's the final diff (with your
 > > changes):
 > 
 > I've asked Mike Pritchard for his opinion on BUGS vs NOTES, since he's
 > pretty much Mr Manpage. Also, the diff you've sent reverts a grammatical
 > correction I sneaked in:
 > 
 > > +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 > 						^^^^^^^^^^
 > It's "countries that observe", not "one that ovbserves". :-)
 > 
 > Later,
 > Sheldon.
 > 
 
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, mpp@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:31:35 -0400 (EDT)

 Yeah, you're right about the grammatical fix.  Believe it or not, I had   
 yours originally, and someone suggested that it was wrong.  Silly me. :)
 
 SB 
 
 
 
 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 
 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0400, Seth wrote:
 > 
 > > Sounds great.  However, please note that at the request of someone on the
 > > thread, we've changed the BUGS to NOTES.  Here's the final diff (with your
 > > changes):
 > 
 > I've asked Mike Pritchard for his opinion on BUGS vs NOTES, since he's
 > pretty much Mr Manpage. Also, the diff you've sent reverts a grammatical
 > correction I sneaked in:
 > 
 > > +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 > 						^^^^^^^^^^
 > It's "countries that observe", not "one that ovbserves". :-)
 > 
 > Later,
 > Sheldon.
 > 
 
 

From: Mike Pritchard <mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net>
To: sheldonh@uunet.co.za (Sheldon Hearn)
Cc: seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org (Seth),
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, mpp@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:12:35 -0500 (CDT)

 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0400, Seth wrote:
 > 
 > > Sounds great.  However, please note that at the request of someone on the
 > > thread, we've changed the BUGS to NOTES.  Here's the final diff (with your
 > > changes):
 > 
 > I've asked Mike Pritchard for his opinion on BUGS vs NOTES, since he's
 > pretty much Mr Manpage. Also, the diff you've sent reverts a grammatical
 > correction I sneaked in:
 > 
 > > +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 > 						^^^^^^^^^^
 > It's "countries that observe", not "one that ovbserves". :-)
 
 If we are not going to do any code changes for this, then I vote for
 documenting it in the BUGS section.  If not, don't put it in a "NOTES"
 section.  It should be "IMPLEMENTATION NOTES".
 
 My reason for this is that I've fixed cron in some other UNIX 
 environment to always make sure that any job that would have been
 skipped due to the time change was run at least once.  I also fixed
 it so that a job scheduled to run right at the time change would
 not be run twice when changing from daylight savings time to standard
 time.
 
 It has been couple of years since I've even looked at a line 
 of code in our current cron, so I'm not even sure what it does now.
 If it at least makes a very good attempt to make sure that every 
 scheduled job is run at least once, then it should be documented
 in IMPLEMENTATION NOTES.  Then there should be a reference to daylight 
 savings time changes and exactly how the jobs are to be scheduled.  If our
 current cron is dropping jobs, or running the same scheduled jobs
 twice, then it should be documented in BUGS.
 
 p.s.
 
 Debugging this problem just sucks.  It took me two years dealing 
 with our vendor until we came up with something acceptable.  I gave 
 them a fix, they changed it their own way, next time change it messed 
 up again.  I reported it again with a fix, they fixed it again, but 
 differently, and it messed up again, etc...
 
 I don't think they ever actually tested their code over a real time 
 change.  They just tested to make sure it ran for a week during non-change
 times, and via code review they were sure they fixed the problem
 without actually resetting the date on a machine and seeing what
 happened.
 
 -Mike
 -- 
 Mike Pritchard
 mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net
 

From: Mike Pritchard <mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net>
To: sheldonh@uunet.co.za (Sheldon Hearn)
Cc: mpp@freebsd.org, freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org,
	Doug@gorean.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight savings and cron
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:15:56 -0500 (CDT)

 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:50:02 MST, Doug wrote:
 > 
 > >       Your text looks good. The one change I would suggest is to make
 > >  the man page entry under NOTES, not BUGS since this isn't a bug.
 > >  cron is doing exactly what you tell it to, you're just not telling
 > >  it to do something very smart if you schedule a job at the hour when
 > >  daylight savings kicks in. :)
 > 
 > Hi Mike,
 > 
 > Could you have a look at PR 10947 and let me know whether you think
 > Seth's proposed text should go into BUGS or NOTES? I reckon it should be
 > BUGS, but Doug Barton's suggested NOTES as a more appropriate section.
 
 I just sent a very long-winded reply to this on whatever mailing
 list you mentioned that you had asked me about this.
 
 Short answer: BUGS.
 
 Long answer: See me other message :-)
 
 -Mike
 -- 
 Mike Pritchard
 mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Mike Pritchard <mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net>
Cc: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, mpp@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:30:09 -0400 (EDT)

 OK.  In an effort to reduce the amount of email generated by this PR,
 someone please just tell me what the final decision is, and I will submit
 the diffs.  It seems that there are as many opinions on the 'correct' way
 as there are people participating in this thread.  I'll defer to the most
 vocal. :)
 
 Having become familiar with this thread, it seems that Sheldon and Mike
 are the ones who must come to an agreement.  Just let me know what it is,
 and I'll be happy to do the grunt work.  :)
 
 SB
 
 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Mike Pritchard wrote:
 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0400, Seth wrote:
 > > 
 > > > Sounds great.  However, please note that at the request of someone on the
 > > > thread, we've changed the BUGS to NOTES.  Here's the final diff (with your
 > > > changes):
 > > 
 > > I've asked Mike Pritchard for his opinion on BUGS vs NOTES, since he's
 > > pretty much Mr Manpage. Also, the diff you've sent reverts a grammatical
 > > correction I sneaked in:
 > > 
 > > > +If you're in one of the 70-odd countries that observes Daylight
 > > 						^^^^^^^^^^
 > > It's "countries that observe", not "one that ovbserves". :-)
 > 
 > If we are not going to do any code changes for this, then I vote for
 > documenting it in the BUGS section.  If not, don't put it in a "NOTES"
 > section.  It should be "IMPLEMENTATION NOTES".
 > 
 > My reason for this is that I've fixed cron in some other UNIX 
 > environment to always make sure that any job that would have been
 > skipped due to the time change was run at least once.  I also fixed
 > it so that a job scheduled to run right at the time change would
 > not be run twice when changing from daylight savings time to standard
 > time.
 > 
 > It has been couple of years since I've even looked at a line 
 > of code in our current cron, so I'm not even sure what it does now.
 > If it at least makes a very good attempt to make sure that every 
 > scheduled job is run at least once, then it should be documented
 > in IMPLEMENTATION NOTES.  Then there should be a reference to daylight 
 > savings time changes and exactly how the jobs are to be scheduled.  If our
 > current cron is dropping jobs, or running the same scheduled jobs
 > twice, then it should be documented in BUGS.
 > 
 > p.s.
 > 
 > Debugging this problem just sucks.  It took me two years dealing 
 > with our vendor until we came up with something acceptable.  I gave 
 > them a fix, they changed it their own way, next time change it messed 
 > up again.  I reported it again with a fix, they fixed it again, but 
 > differently, and it messed up again, etc...
 > 
 > I don't think they ever actually tested their code over a real time 
 > change.  They just tested to make sure it ran for a week during non-change
 > times, and via code review they were sure they fixed the problem
 > without actually resetting the date on a machine and seeing what
 > happened.
 > 
 > -Mike
 > -- 
 > Mike Pritchard
 > mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net
 > 
 
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: Mike Pritchard <mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, mpp@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:12:58 +0200

 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:30:09 -0400, Seth wrote:
 
 > Having become familiar with this thread, it seems that Sheldon and Mike
 > are the ones who must come to an agreement.
 
 We're already in agreement. When we magically deal with this problem in cron,
 we'll change it from BUGS to IMPLEMENTATION NOTES.
 
 Stay tuned for a commit, and thanks for your participation. :-)
 
 Ciao,
 Sheldon.
 

From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: Mike Pritchard <mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net>,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, mpp@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:24:08 -0400 (EDT)

 Thanks for the guidance through this one.  Anytime.  :)
 
 
 SB
 
 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > We're already in agreement. When we magically deal with this problem in cron,
 > we'll change it from BUGS to IMPLEMENTATION NOTES.
 > 
 > Stay tuned for a commit, and thanks for your participation. :-)
 > 
 > Ciao,
 > Sheldon.
 > 
 
 

From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: phk@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:06:05 +0200

 Hi Poul-Henning,
 
 The crontab(5) manpage now includes a cautionary note regarding the
 impact of Daylight Savings Time shift on cron(8). The change has been
 MFC'd.
 
 May I MFC your change to src/etc/crontab? That'll conclude our business
 here and allow us to close this PR. Otherwise, I can assign the PR to
 you and mark it suspended.
 
 Ciao,
 Sheldon.
 

From: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: conf/10947: Daylight Savings blows cron 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:09:28 +0200

 In message <30052.934376765@axl.noc.iafrica.com>, Sheldon Hearn writes:
 
 >May I MFC your change to src/etc/crontab? That'll conclude our business
 >here and allow us to close this PR. Otherwise, I can assign the PR to
 >you and mark it suspended.
 
 Sure, please do.
 
 --
 Poul-Henning Kamp             FreeBSD coreteam member
 phk@FreeBSD.ORG               "Real hackers run -current on their laptop."
 FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far!
 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: sheldonh 
State-Changed-When: Wed Aug 11 06:33:40 PDT 1999 
State-Changed-Why:  
Both /etc/crontab and the crontab(5) manpage have been adjusted in both 
CURRENT and STABLE. 
>Unformatted:
