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Message-Id: <200511291736.jATHaJrn079068@www.freebsd.org>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:36:19 GMT
From: Takeo Hashimoto <HashimotoTakeo@mac.com>
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org
Subject: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list
X-Send-Pr-Version: www-2.3

>Number:         89731
>Category:       advocacy
>Synopsis:       TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       serious
>Priority:       high
>Responsible:    freebsd-advocacy
>State:          closed
>Quarter:        
>Keywords:       
>Date-Required:  
>Class:          change-request
>Submitter-Id:   current-users
>Arrival-Date:   Tue Nov 29 17:40:18 GMT 2005
>Closed-Date:    Fri Dec 02 17:59:25 GMT 2005
>Last-Modified:  Fri Dec 02 17:59:25 GMT 2005
>Originator:     Takeo Hashimoto
>Release:        5.4-RELEASE
>Organization:
>Environment:
everywhere.
>Description:
there are too many spams on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list.
- newbie can not find any kind of know-how from ML archive site.
- almost expert user are disappointed at miserable state of community.
- oldie does not think about mass happiness.
- once you post article to lists, spammer get your address from archive.
- waste network traffic and server resource.
- distinct honor of "FreeBSD is a freedom for spammer"
>How-To-Repeat:
1) subscribe to any jp.freebsd.org's mailing list. (for example, FreeBSD-users-jp@jp.FreeBSD.org)
2) just wait few hours.
>Fix:
change the ML policy to "restrict_post"

>Release-Note:
>Audit-Trail:

From: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Cc: Takeo Hashimoto <HashimotoTakeo@mac.com>, freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:28:31 -0500

 On Tuesday 29 November 2005 12:36 pm, Takeo Hashimoto wrote:
 > >Description:
 >
 > there are too many spams on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list.
 > - newbie can not find any kind of know-how from ML archive site.
 > - almost expert user are disappointed at miserable state of community.
 > - oldie does not think about mass happiness.
 > - once you post article to lists, spammer get your address from archive.
 > - waste network traffic and server resource.
 > - distinct honor of "FreeBSD is a freedom for spammer"
 
 Note that FreeBSD.org doesn't administer the services on jp.FreeBSD.org.  
 Instead, jp.FreeBSD.org is delegated to a separate group that manages all of 
 the resources for jp.FreeBSD.org including DNS, mailing lists, etc.  You need 
 to contact the folks there via postmaster@jp.FreeBSD.org.  Note also that 
 spam is an unfortunate reality and that there is only so much that a public 
 mailing list run by volunteers in their spare time can do.
 
 -- 
 John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>  <><  http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
 "Power Users Use the Power to Serve"  =  http://www.FreeBSD.org

From: takeo@ss.jip.co.jp (Takeo Hashimoto)
To: jhb@freebsd.org, postmaster@jp.FreeBSD.org
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, hashimototakeo@mac.com,
	freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org, takeo@ss.jip.co.jp
Subject: Re: advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:12:09 +0900

 Hi all.
 
 # Sorry from another 'from' address,
 # but I am the sender of advocacy/89731.
 
 On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:28:31 -0500
 John Baldwin wrote:
 >On Tuesday 29 November 2005 12:36 pm, Takeo Hashimoto wrote:
 >> >Description:
 >>
 >> there are too many spams on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list.
 >> - newbie can not find any kind of know-how from ML archive site.
 >> - almost expert user are disappointed at miserable state of community.
 >> - oldie does not think about mass happiness.
 >> - once you post article to lists, spammer get your address from archive.
 >> - waste network traffic and server resource.
 >> - distinct honor of "FreeBSD is a freedom for spammer"
 >
 >Note that FreeBSD.org doesn't administer the services on jp.FreeBSD.org.
 >Instead, jp.FreeBSD.org is delegated to a separate group that manages all of
 >the resources for jp.FreeBSD.org including DNS, mailing lists, etc.  You need
 >to contact the folks there via postmaster@jp.FreeBSD.org.  Note also that
 >spam is an unfortunate reality and that there is only so much that a public
 >mailing list run by volunteers in their spare time can do.
 >
 >--
 
 I know that jp.FreeBSD.org is just one of sub domain
 of FreeBSD.org, and FreeBSD.org doesn't administer it,
 and FreeBSD.org doesn't have a fault about this.
 
 But spam damages FreeBSD own honor.
 I think that this is a whole FreeBSD problem, and
 I think that only FreeBSD.org can make jp.FreeBSD.org change.
 # so I did send-pr.
 
 Of course I know the admins of jp.freebsd.org are busy.
 I respect thier volunteer mind, but sorry to say,
 the way admin do it is arbitrary.
 I think transparency and democracy is necessary
 for a decision on will, like a core team.
 
 OK, we can protect our mailbox by some filter. but spam
 pollutes ML archive (on the web) and spammer can get more
 reachable addresses. That is not an individual problem.
 that is a matter of ML management policy.
 and it should be changed to get happiness of the majority.
 
 Admins are volunteer, and they don't have much time,
 so we have to search the solution which get the biggest
 effect by the minimum cost.
 
 I think "restrict_post" is the answer.
 #----------------------------------------------------------#
 # Takeo Hashimoto.                             sempre ff.  #
 #----------------------------------------------------------#
 

From: takeo@ss.jip.co.jp (Takeo Hashimoto)
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc: jhb@freebsd.org, remko@elvandar.org, lnb@freebsdsystems.com,
	hashimototakeo@mac.com, takeo@ss.jip.co.jp
Subject: Re: advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 23:01:41 +0900

 Hi all.
 I was waiting reply from jp admins, but at this present time,
 I have not gotten it yet. so I want to close PR first.
 This is (my) summary.
 
 -From-To: open->closed
 -Why:
 It is not a suitable topic for PR.
   1) Send-pr does not effect subdomain.FreeBSD.org diretly.
   2) Subdomain.FreeBSD.org are delegated to a separate group and granted
      to act autonomous, and there are volunteer admins for each subdomain.
   3) People who feel doubt should contact to each subdomain's admins first.
 That's enough to close this PR. period.
 
 Thanks to: John Baldwin, Remko Lodder, Lanny Baron, and all readers.
 
 ^L
 rests are just for reference.
 looking back on PR description:
 
   - newbie can not find any kind of know-how from ML archive site.
 
   People who wont search can hit articles with good keywords.
   People who won't search posts a questions to lists without subscribe.
 
   - almost expert user are disappointed at miserable state of community.
 
   roughly saying, then they can fork, they can set up another list.
 
   - oldie does not think about mass happiness.
 
   No, jp.FreeBSD.org's lists may have at least marginal filter.
   and also "posting without subscribe" is useful especially for newbie.
 
   - once you post article to lists, spammer get your address from archive.
 
   Unfortunately no one can stop it.
   People should protect themselves from spams by some filter.
 
   - waste network traffic and server resource.
 
   It is such an age. (sigh)
 
   - distinct honor of "FreeBSD is a freedom for spammer"
 
   (no response about this, but it does not mean assent)
 
 also there were three more topics about list management:
 
   about list policy:
     It is useful to keep lists "open" for questioner.
     Some kind of list (e.g. for admin) may be suitable to close ("restrited").
 
   about protecting lists (server side):
     Admins may implement some level of filtering at server side
     and tuning filter (aggressive or lenient) is admins matter.
 
   about protecting individual (user side):
     No one can stop spam tsunami, so people have to protect them by themselves.
 
 That's all.
 # sorry of my strange English. :(
 #----------------------------------------------------------#
 # Takeo Hashimoto.                             sempre ff.  #
 #----------------------------------------------------------#
 
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed 
State-Changed-By: jhb 
State-Changed-When: Fri Dec 2 17:58:50 GMT 2005 
State-Changed-Why:  
Closed at submitter's request after discussion.  Submitter is following 
up with the jp.freebsd.org admins directly. 

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=89731 
>Unformatted:
