Posts by trom@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #9zYVBaYBW3CZ6Prn1M by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T16:00:07Z
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@aseem: Some are tradebased services, some trade-free. The trade-free ones are the "community" based - they don't ask anything in return for what they offer. We built this directory of trade-free goods and services https://www.trade-free.org/directory and this operating system https://www.tromjaro.com/ and we curate hundreds of trade-free apps. Anyways. Would be more sane of we label such services based around "trade".
(DIR) Post #9zYVBd3SClP0ryVn2O by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T16:00:08Z
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@aseem: Some are tradebased services, some trade-free. The trade-free ones are the "community" based - they don't ask anything in return for what they offer. We built this directory of trade-free goods and services https://www.trade-free.org/directory and this operating system https://www.tromjaro.com/ and we curate hundreds of trade-free apps. Anyways. Would be more sane of we label such services based around "trade".
(DIR) Post #9zYoQDMptGlCfsFJh2 by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-25T11:49:52Z
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@snopyta: Can you check https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/issues/443#issuecomment-698809874? I wanted to use the Jitsi Meet application with the snopyta server. They say you have to allow for iframe embedding. Isn't your instance allowing that? And if so why?
(DIR) Post #9zYyF92gd5PPcJBJr6 by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:12:04Z
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@disroot: You think that treating people based on their monetary power isn't a slippery slope? Like providing more storage space for those who can pay and such? I don't criticize you, I am asking since we create similar services at tromland.org and we refuse to ever treat people differently based on their purchasing power. Cheers! :)
(DIR) Post #9zYypce62fmPr54cZU by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:32:23Z
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@disroot: "With your Disroot account, you get 2GB FREE storage. It is possible to extend your cloud storage from 2GB to 14, 29 or 54GB for the cost of 0.15 euro per GB per month. " - To me this sounds like Google or any cloud storage. I totally understand that it costs money to run these servers, same is what Google says, but I find it a bit unfair to treat people differently based on how much money they have. Why not ask for donations in order to increase the default storage?
(DIR) Post #9zYz39LflUYt2tuFpw by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:34:47Z
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@disroot: We are testing NextCloud and other services and we will be releasing them soon. We will never discriminate based on how much money people have. Maybe you can consider another way to get the funds? We think that all people should be helped equally. Else we will become like a company who treats some customers better depending on how much they pay. I hope you understand my concerns.
(DIR) Post #9zYzvsBNI1NxjWBRLs by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:44:45Z
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@disroot: What if you provide 2GB for free for everyone, and ask for donations to increase it for everyone? Wikipedia or Archive.org never ask me to trade money to them in return for better services. And they are amazing. It showcase that you can scale up. Imagine if Archive.org will ask for money in return for more storage? That would definitely be a slippery slope transforming them overtime.
(DIR) Post #9zZ094KXR4kzAolJCa by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:46:55Z
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@disroot: "@trom Noone is treated differently. For example mail aliases and custom domains are given for donation. " It means, if I donate money to you, you give me an alias or more storage space. If I do not, you don't. Imagine I do not have the money but I want an alias or more storage space. I can't get that from you. So, I'd say, you are treating people with money better than those without. And I am sorry again, I do not want to sound like I'm attacking what you do. 'm curious
(DIR) Post #9zZ0kpAYFikX9l5t9E by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:53:45Z
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@disroot: In this society if you have money you get more of this, and more of that. Better of this, and better of that. I think this is very unfair and there are no reasons to keep on doing this. Everyone should be treated equally. As long as you provide more and better for those who can give you money, regardless of the reasons, then you are treating them better than the ones who don't give you money. As simple as that. Maybe you will rethink the way you manage Disroot.
(DIR) Post #9zZ11vhrCVDyM0pSE4 by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T21:56:29Z
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@disroot: And don't get me wrong, you are doing a fantastic job there. We use some of your services too. But I have seen enough of such "premium" accounts type of approaches and they do not seem to evolve very honestly over time. Also, maybe I care too much about poor people and I don't want to see them being treated as second class citizens just because they can't afford this or that. Cheers!
(DIR) Post #9zZ27P1JjvFwfh6Ynw by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:09:03Z
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@disroot: I understand that because of those trades with some users, you are able to provide more free accounts, but I cannot see this as scaling up in an honest manner. It is the slope that pretty much everyone slips on. Even Google promised to be nice towards its users in 2004. Or Facebook. Or some open source projects like Jitsi Meet and their instance that is now injecting ads. As long as you ask something in return for your services, you will de-balance yourself.
(DIR) Post #9zZ2G32EqiTV5lerei by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:10:38Z
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@disroot: I think the people from FramaSoft were always providing trade-free services. Meaning, they didn't ask anything in return for whatever they provide. So maybe it is possible if you ask for more support. You seem to have a lot of people who like your services. Maybe asking for more donations you can scale up and also keep your services like FramaSoft or Archive.org, trade-free.
(DIR) Post #9zZ3OhUiPFlyqSfS8e by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:23:31Z
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@disroot: Instead of Jitsi selling out, they could rely on something like https://framatalk.org/accueil/en/ where random instances are used instead of just one. Multiple servers, decentralization at its best. Same for Nextcloud instance, why not merge more of these instances into a similar thing? So people don't abuse yours....as long as a piece of software asks something from the users (trade), they will go down the hill and become a "google". That's what I observed.
(DIR) Post #9zZ41y7WWd3XhfXoYK by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:30:38Z
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@disroot: IDK how notforprofits work nowadays since I've seen many making profits. But archive.org is one of such cases that seems very honest and they do have their own hardware and deal with all that and are mostly backed by people like you and me https://archive.org/donate/.
(DIR) Post #9zZ4XktVEdyTwx8wqG by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:36:23Z
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@disroot: My point is this: when you ask something in return for what you do, it is a slippery slope. If you provide a service to people, and say "for 20 bucks I give you more storage space", regardless of your motive, you will, in time, become more incentivized to provide such services at a cost, rather than provide them for free, since you rely on these paid services to run your organization. It is a very bad string attached to your umbilical cord. Maybe you won't, but'm skeptic
(DIR) Post #9zZ4p77Bs8GPmzp4Yy by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:39:30Z
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@disroot: I agree. TROM is doing volunteer work for 10 years now. Books, documentaries, software, etc.. All trade-free, meaning we ask nothing in return. First years without any support, then around 1k E a month, now we run out of money in 3 months. It really sucks. That being said, despite this, I still think is better to treat everyone equally regardless, and such tactics with "give me money and I'll give you more", are bound to repeat the same mistakes all companies do.
(DIR) Post #9zZ5U1siEd7jQlYpii by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:46:56Z
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@disroot: I feel like your motivation is in the right place and you seem honest, but it is a premium vs free situation. Or call it paid vs free. I hope you will keep on being honest, and then my only critique would be that you treat (indirectly) those without money or little off, in a different way than you treat people with money. It is an unfortunate situation, but it is what it is.
(DIR) Post #9zZ5mNptLb2yjYzeJk by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:50:07Z
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@disroot: Our costs are not that low at all actually. We have many projects and 1 full time "paid volunteer". Anyways, lets see how Disroot will evolve. Would you like to come to our TROMcast https://www.tromsite.com/videos/#cast so we can discuss these ideas live and on lenght? We had a similar one here https://www.tromsite.com/videos/#fvp_242,0s
(DIR) Post #9zZ6ApgPSqF83ADU0m by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:52:29Z
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@disroot: Awesome! How can I contact you more directly to schedule a date and hour?
(DIR) Post #9zZ6Wj5UfNc5xvOB0a by trom@mastodon.social
2020-09-26T22:58:37Z
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@disroot: Perfect! Will do.