Posts by madunclegenghis@mas.to
(DIR) Post #AiUmTYdiLHLtsXBuam by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-01T20:59:43Z
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@Radical_EgoCom No. No good has ever come from well-meaning idealists thinking they know better than the people they seek to help. Liberation cannot be imposed from above, and class war is supposed to be workers v bosses, not communists v workers because the proletariat can’t be trusted to know what’s good for them.“Nothing about us without us” holds true for class politics as well as minority rights activism, and the arrogance of thinking it doesn’t is profoundly worrying.
(DIR) Post #AiUnOjh9uVU6fn4DdA by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-01T21:10:03Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Yes, I know that. My point is that if the class you’re fighting for doesn’t actually want to live under the system you’re fighting for them not only are you going to be short of allies, even if you win you’ll have to impose it on them by force. Probably with some show trials and propaganda about false consciousness thrown in for good measure. This will not be a morally good thing to do, and is best avoided.
(DIR) Post #AiUoIhjcNzGUoGuBDk by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-01T21:20:09Z
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@Radical_EgoCom See, when people talk about suppressing enemies I get nervous. You also seem to be advocating for a global communism, and I don’t see how you get there from here.
(DIR) Post #AiUprrDfDL3mJcHikq by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-01T21:37:43Z
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@Radical_EgoCom It can’t though. If that was going to happen it would’ve done so in the first half of the twentieth century when there was at least some enthusiasm for the idea. I’m not sure where you are, but I’m in the UK, and there seems to be zero appetite for communism beyond a tiny fragment of fringe idealists. How do we achieve communism here, never mind internationally?
(DIR) Post #AiUqw0DnmmufLctEpc by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-01T21:49:40Z
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@Radical_EgoCom That feels a little vague to me, to put it mildly, and still doesn’t answer my core question throughout this thread: people don’t seem to want communism, so how are you proposing to persuade them to? I’m reminded of student days, when practical questions were hand-waved away in favour of the beauty of big ideas. The trouble is that the only way to get to enact those beautiful ideas is to solve all those practical questions.
(DIR) Post #AiUs6v39SFh0Rng4P2 by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-01T22:02:50Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Fair enough, I wish you luck with it. And thank you for responding to me, even if I don’t really feel you meaningfully engaged with my questions, I’ve enjoyed this thread. Much appreciated.
(DIR) Post #AiVB3hSjPk1yZDoxRg by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T01:35:10Z
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@Radical_EgoCom That’s not meaningful pluralism, that’s the sham of democracy you find in authoritarian regimes. People have to be free to make the “wrong” choice. On the terms you’re offering: disagree because if you’re going to be an authoritarian fuckhead you might as well be honest about it.
(DIR) Post #AiVCc0CuKOEkVFL8GO by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T01:52:34Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Bless your heart. That’s the kind of spurious logic and false equivalence that lets you justify modifying people to fit your ideology rather than the other way around. Skipping over the fact that there may be alternatives to communism other than fascism and capitalism, who decides what actions and choices are, like murder, bad enough to justify stopping people from doing them? How is it enforced? How are these choices compatible with personal autonomy?
(DIR) Post #AiVDtrQZoBy6RMoSRM by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T02:07:00Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Which people? What form of democratic decision making? How will it be enforced? Again, how is any of this compatible with individual autonomy? Have you actually met The People? Because lots of them are reactionary bigots. How are you going to stop people with such wrong thoughts from being part of the people that make decisions about acceptable behaviour? What if they’re actually the majority of the people? These aren’t even the complex questions, just the obvious ones.
(DIR) Post #AiVFNj85KFdlLTy7Q8 by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T02:23:36Z
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@Radical_EgoCom If you genuinely don’t see a problem with what you’ve just written, or with the idea of suppressing thoughts, then you are terrifying. I hope your revolution fails, because replacing one evil system with a different flavour of evil is twisted. You don’t want to help or liberate anyone, just change the nature of their oppression.
(DIR) Post #AiVGlKckBiUWFO82VM by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T02:39:05Z
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@Radical_EgoCom You literally wrote “one of the main points of this transitional state would be to repress any any all counter-revolutionary actions and thoughts”You want to suppress thoughts. I’m not extrapolating, I’m reading what you wrote.Oh, and leaving aside the questions of who decides what makes someone a capitalist or fascist and what the exact criteria are: you’re not supposed to oppress anyone in a morally good society. Oppression is inherently evil.
(DIR) Post #AiVIJ2jJK9cgY8q4aO by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T02:56:22Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Define “given the means” because unless you’re moving the goalposts in context it seemed to cover little things like suppressing thoughts. And you were the one who happily used the word, so what exactly did you mean by it?And yes, oppression is inherently evil. It’s also not the same thing as the inherent trade-offs we make in order to live in a society.
(DIR) Post #AiVJ3KXrQ3lf7jYSC8 by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T03:04:44Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Again, how are we identifying these unpeople whose civil rights we are discarding? Is there a chance for them to learn to stop being capitalists and regain full citizenship, and if so what is it, and how are they assessed?More importantly, what did you mean when you talked of suppressing thoughts?
(DIR) Post #AiVMzlcTDPI5kfGcvA by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T03:48:54Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Fair enough, though I think it’d be more useful to agree on which questions are important and tackle them first. I won’t quibble over it though. Leaving aside the practicalities of how that would be done, a reasonable answer. At some point I’d like to know exactly which civil/human rights they’re being stripped of beyond voting and presumably organising, but that can wait. The next question was about rehabilitation, wasn’t it? (Apologies, can’t easily see the whole thread)
(DIR) Post #AiVO9D8WNRYxedKGHI by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T04:01:49Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Cool. And if they complete these they regain full citizenship/rights afterwards (presumably after some kind of assessment)? (This isn’t a new question, just a paraphrase/simplification of earlier)
(DIR) Post #AiVOJHq1kd8L8GToiu by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T03:59:01Z
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@forthy42 @Radical_EgoCom Preventing fascists from overthrowing the state is not oppression. Denying them the right to vote might be. Policing their thoughts sure as hell is. You’re using a false binary (oppression/doing what they want), when the aim in any just society should surely be to let even the worst people have as much freedom as possible whilst still keeping society safe. Civil rights even for bastards, basically, otherwise they aren’t rights.
(DIR) Post #AiVOe0guhMMs276BQ8 by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T04:07:23Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @forthy42 Strangely enough I have, and even if I hadn’t it’s referenced in the post I was replying to.
(DIR) Post #AiW3ICCLKc7PTGW4zA by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T11:42:50Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Excellent. That bring us back to suppressing thoughts, doesn’t it?
(DIR) Post #AiW4PLVNE7bMJjOJKi by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-02T11:55:20Z
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@Radical_EgoCom See, now that’s a reasonable/defensible position, depending on your definition of propaganda. It’s also not what most people would mean by suppressing thoughts (in the same way that not letting fascists overthrow the state is not what most people would define as oppression). I’d suggest that clarifying your language is important if you’re seeking to persuade people to support your ideas.
(DIR) Post #AiwAqhJvRjwrFjvvRg by madunclegenghis@mas.to
2024-06-15T02:10:01Z
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@Radical_EgoCom If your revolution is going to improve people’s lives so much, why is it so fragile and at risk of being overthrown?