Posts by lack@lor.sh
(DIR) Post #APVmLEp0SuzJfptC0u by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T01:02:47Z
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@b_chocolatey So it sounds like you're equating the "soul" with the sense of "self"?First of all, I think the claim that a computer will *never* experience this is a tough one to be sure about. I'm a software engineer in my day job, but I don't think I know enough about either computers (though I know a lot) or consciousness (where I know very little) to say whether some day they will or they won't.But regardless, if the "soul" is the "self", but somehow non-physical, what happens when I'm asleep or under anesthesia? If there are periods of time when I am not experiencing, what is my soul doing then? Why can drugs or other physical things stop my "self" from "self-ing", unless that self is physical?
(DIR) Post #APVmss6pPt794tGMlM by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T01:09:04Z
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@b_chocolatey Under that definition, then, how is something a "branch of Christianity" if it claims Christianity is not true (and/or impossible, childish, etc)?
(DIR) Post #APVnMSb2pv10dhVOU4 by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T01:14:24Z
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@b_chocolatey I'm curious why you rule them in!I agree that there are interesting questions that we don't fully understand, and some that maybe we will never actually understand. But I think it's okay to just say "we don't know" when we don't know.Why do you think God or gods or souls are good answers to these questions?
(DIR) Post #APVoNqgwpusHc4UbJ2 by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T01:25:50Z
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@b_chocolatey I would say an atheist using that line of reasoning is making a mistake.If the universe seems indifferent, there could certainly be no creator. But there could also be an indifferent creator. Or an evil one. Or a good one who just isn't strong enough to do anything about it. Or a huge number of other explanations. I do think it is a small point against the idea of a creator who is both loving and powerful, but even then not a conclusive "must not be" deductive argument. Which is why I don't use that argument :)
(DIR) Post #APVxFDrcDGrESeRZHk by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T03:05:07Z
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@b_chocolatey I don't think atheism as I understand it, or what I mean when I say I am an atheist makes any argument at all like that.
(DIR) Post #APVyMLLYtDsreOPUMy by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T03:17:37Z
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@b_chocolatey In an academic context, "arguments for atheism" are usually arguments against what's known as "the God of Classical Theism" or some variant of monotheism. If that's not what you believe, I can see why those arguments aren't relevant to you.Maybe you can help me understand more about what you actually believe in; that way we can make sure you're not bringing up arguments that I'm not making, and I won't bring up arguments that aren't relevant to you :)
(DIR) Post #APVz6JRoHcIn55Fimu by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T03:25:48Z
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@b_chocolatey This is interesting; you are saying the self can't be entirely physical, and that the human experience doesn't arise entirely from the physical and chemical world.I'd love to know why you think this is true!
(DIR) Post #APVzfDgrgE9hMQwIgy by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T03:32:15Z
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@b_chocolatey Why does an atheist need to do any of that? Why is the default position "It's God unless you can prove it is not"?I approach it differently. I take all these questions and start with "I don't know what the cause is until I learn more". Maybe I'll learn that the cause is a God. Maybe I'll learn the cause is physical. Maybe something else. Maybe I will never know. But the fact that I don't know doesn't mean you are right to claim that gods are the answers, does it?
(DIR) Post #APVztItT8BxVYKYC2a by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T03:34:44Z
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@b_chocolatey I agree that this is a possibility, sure! But how do we know if it is actually true?
(DIR) Post #APWCWZ4C8JEGSL3Sr2 by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T05:56:22Z
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@b_chocolatey A good question!The answer is that it depends on exactly what we're talking about and what exactly we mean by those words.For some definitions of God I positively believe those do not exist. This might be because they are impossible or self-contradictory.For other definitions of God, I just do not hold the belief that they exist. This might be for a of reasons... Sometimes they're not well defined. Sometimes the person proposing the idea hasn't shown me a good enough reason to believe it's true.I'm honestly confused why people claim to believe in gods when they don't have a good reason, or don't have a clear idea of what even it is to make a determination as to if it's real or not.So I do not believe in any God or gods, and I am pretty sure there aren't any, but I also have enough epistemic humility to admit I could be wrong.What would you call that?
(DIR) Post #APWHWqjSx5Wz13JYRs by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T06:52:26Z
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@b_chocolatey @MtnStateNomad could it be as simple as the fact that ideas, like technology, take time to develop?Why wasn't the transistor invented in the 1400s? Because the things that had to be before it hadn't happened yet.
(DIR) Post #APWJ4WDfpAn5CG3vSi by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T07:09:44Z
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@b_chocolatey I agree that those things exist, (at least if you are keeping the physicslist-compatible definition of "soul" = "self") but I am not sure what is "godly" about them. I'm also not sure that those separate us from cause and effect. I think all the things you mentioned are part of a very complicated web of causes and effects.
(DIR) Post #APWJJQzpWiKtLBhQo4 by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T07:12:19Z
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@b_chocolatey can you help me understand why? What is it about consciousness that you think makes it unlikely or impossible to be understood from a purely physical or scientific stance?
(DIR) Post #APWJZOihl0sUulIjYm by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T07:15:19Z
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@b_chocolatey I wonder how you feel about the fact that different cultures at different times have had different things they hold reverent? Do these "emanations of God" change over time? Or are you more referring to the fact that humans have a "reverence" emotion?
(DIR) Post #APWJllh8AEMBdzSo5o by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T07:17:33Z
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@b_chocolatey @MtnStateNomad Does the fact that an idea is popular or unpopular impact whether it's actually true?
(DIR) Post #APWK87HWaJPYxw8vbc by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-12T07:21:34Z
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@b_chocolatey @MtnStateNomad Anyone can say that an idea is the Right View. But how do we find out if it actually is?
(DIR) Post #APY14G8KDsz4RnCu5Q by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-13T02:57:23Z
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@b_chocolatey @MtnStateNomad What do you mean? A counter-argument to what exactly?
(DIR) Post #APZ702neeEv6oqs7RA by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-13T15:38:35Z
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@b_chocolatey I think I see what you mean.But if something is hard to imagine, does that make it false? If it leads to a conclusion we don't like, does that make it false?Are these good reasons for concluding that the "self" is not or cannot be a physical thing?
(DIR) Post #APZ8Jcob4J35yUDI8G by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-13T15:52:56Z
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@b_chocolateyI think that there is a kind of "movement atheism" or "new atheist culture" that might fit some of what you're talking about here. That part is indeed a social construct.However, there is a fact I'm reality that God either exists or not. And I might believe one way or the other (or neither), that actual belief I hold (or do not hold) is not itself a social construct.My beliefs are influenced by the culture I'm in, but I can still interrogate the truth or falsehood of that belief on its own, if I practice some epistemic humility and honesty when I think about why I hold such a belief.
(DIR) Post #APZ8KwGOFIPSa8q8CO by lack@lor.sh
2022-11-13T15:53:30Z
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@b_chocolateyI think that there is a kind of "movement atheism" or "new atheist culture" that might fit some of what you're talking about here. That part is indeed a social construct.However, there is a fact in reality that God either exists or not. And I might believe one way or the other (or neither), that actual belief I hold (or do not hold) is not itself a social construct.My beliefs are influenced by the culture I'm in, but I can still interrogate the truth or falsehood of that belief on its own, if I practice some epistemic humility and honesty when I think about why I hold such a belief.