Post B6caYvhgDCTwfRkL6O by wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.social
(DIR) More posts by wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.social
(DIR) Post #B6cXpfEmO00sevW57g by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T11:43:40Z
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Has anyone in biology written a book on the concept of "pests" how they are defined, how they spread, and their place in our understand of ecosystems and the impact of humans on those ecosystems?You will find the word "pest" in serious scientific papers. It's just in the abstracts to explain "why this research matters" -- but it's also not well defined, it can be deeply subjective. 1/
(DIR) Post #B6cY82dI8pOWQmkExk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T11:47:02Z
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The ultimate pest, the one everyone agrees on is the pestilence. A virus, fungus, bacteria, or other disease that harms human beings and can spread. On the other end of the spectrum you have native animals some people just don't like, people will call wolves a "pest" even though the wolves were there before they even showed up, the wolves are a part of the ecosystem and the wolves are endangered in the region. But, it feels like they might kill baby farm animals. So they are called pests. 2/
(DIR) Post #B6cYDES5cnlEXHyqCu by arcanesugar@wandering.shop
2026-05-24T11:47:56Z
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@futurebird They have! Check out Pests; How Humans Create Animal Villains by @beebrookshire. She lioks at exactly that topic. Pests aren't a thing that exist, they're a thing we create.
(DIR) Post #B6cYESQz7o2EBs322K by Samosthenurus@aus.social
2026-05-24T11:48:07Z
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@futurebird this is on my list at the moment. Haven't read it but it's supposed to be a classic.
(DIR) Post #B6cYSxyOf1vo3pauQa by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T11:50:49Z
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Smallpox is a pest and a pestilence. Wolves are not. Those are easy cases. So, what about more ambiguous cases? Lasius emarginatus is not a native species of ant in NYC. But neither are most of the other ants you may see. Lasius emarginatus likes to live outside and doesn't habitually nest in human spaces. This ant is very numerous and conspicuous on our sidewalks. Like most ants it's a predator of other insects, but also a detritivore and clean up crew. Is it a "pest?"3/
(DIR) Post #B6cYmZzrVvd5UVdFXE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T11:54:19Z
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When people fall in conflict with each other whole groups of people have been described as "pests" --this language is so alarming since the way that we respond to pest animals and living things is often extreme and alarming. It's the worst kind of dehumanization to call a people "vermin" or "roaches."Because it opens the door to genocide. The history is deeply disturbing. Our attempts to eliminate actual pests have been less successful. Is it a broken way of thinking?4/4
(DIR) Post #B6cYp3HXbTgGte51pg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T11:54:49Z
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@Samosthenurus Excellent. This is just the type of thing I'm looking for.
(DIR) Post #B6cZ7ZAplkRB1HlslE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T11:57:10Z
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@u0421793 Weeds are "pest plants" I think?Though sometimes a weed is just contextual. Plants growing too close to my beans are weeds since I want more beans. It's fine if they grow someplace else... so maybe it's a little different?
(DIR) Post #B6cZyLpO7T2eyZuTEu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:07:39Z
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If you like ants you quickly discover that some people see them as "pests" -- But, ants are really hard to classify. Is it bad to have ants in your garden? Ant Downsides* Ants will protect aphids so they can drink their honeydew and eat them* Some ants may sting Ant Benefits* Ants clean up honeydew from aphids preventing mold. * Ants clip the wings of aphids so they can't spread* Ants improve the soil* Ants attack many garden pests.* Ants clean up dead animals and insects.
(DIR) Post #B6ca0XaBO1gi0nqFQ8 by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:08:04Z
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@futurebird it seems to me that indeed, the best definition of "pest" is not just that it's undesirable, but that the destruction is warranted, necessary, to prevent multiplication, invasion and whatever unspecified (but assumed to be well known) effect of such invasion on our way of living.Calling people that is very much a call to action.
(DIR) Post #B6caBD6HsZ7hfmwijQ by funkula@goblin.camp
2026-05-24T12:09:56Z
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@futurebird some ants will get into the produce too. I remember sometimes we'd find a tomato honeycombed with ant tunnels
(DIR) Post #B6caHID3nPY1Fy0x84 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:11:07Z
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@tshirtman The problem is that killing the creature is treating the symptom. Nature is resilient and if you eliminate every pest, but the conditions that allowed them to thrive remain they will simply be replaced.And often the methods used to kill pests also kill many other creatures as collateral damage. The pesticides used to stop fire ants killed every insect, and then, since fire ants are experts at exploiting newly opened ecological niches soon after there were more fire ants than ever.
(DIR) Post #B6caPMSbsL4qkz8Qme by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:12:34Z
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@tshirtman That said I do kill every spotted lanternfly that I see. I collect aphids with tape. I've had to use bait to keep my NYC apartment free of roaches. But I'm always thinking "Why is this creature here? What allows it to thrive?"
(DIR) Post #B6caYvhgDCTwfRkL6O by wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.social
2026-05-24T12:14:16Z
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@futurebird I have ants in my garden. I will not be getting rid of them... because it would require me nuking my entire backyard with chemicals, and still might not work. The ants are EVERYWHERE. Under every rock, every scrap of cloth, in every garden bed. They do sting if you try and move the rock they're hiding brood under, but so what? They were there before I started a garden, they will be there after. Much rather figure a way to get rid of the potato beetles than the ants.
(DIR) Post #B6cabiSPuw4CSCw5pY by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:14:47Z
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@futurebird yes, i agree it's a broken way of thinking as it assume there won't be an equilibrium to find, that the "pest" won't have a predator to keep it in check, or run out of resources (or preys won't adapt), and that removing it will restore balance/harmony, and sure, sometimes interventions are desirable, but we tend to overestimate when and mispredict the results.
(DIR) Post #B6cawmL8g2FOZpZinw by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:18:36Z
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@futurebird i'll have to look into the tape thing, for when i try to grow stuff again, i don't assume it's to give them to your ants? the glue could be a problem. I had no mercy for the ones on my tomatoes, some beetle larvaes came and helped back then, but otoh they were an invasive species, so i was ín a pickle…
(DIR) Post #B6caxWrJijJqqwz4LY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:18:44Z
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@funkula I suspect that some caterpillars made the holes and the ants were just exploiting them, cleaning up the mess if you will. But they will go for over-ripe fruit if it starts to drip sugar... you can't blame them for that. Any one would!
(DIR) Post #B6cbFJflUAShAX3uyW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:21:58Z
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@tshirtman I just use a lint roller, the one I use to keep #picaTheCat's hair off of my coats. I find a patch of aphid and roll them up. Then I put the tape in the freezer to kill them.If there are any ants fussing over the aphids I just shake the leaf and the ants run, when they return they are shocked to find their whole flock has vanished.
(DIR) Post #B6cbTgcix2RiP7UZRA by jakobtougaard@mastodon.online
2026-05-24T12:24:29Z
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@futurebird you may know this already - pest in many languages, when used in a specific sense, is the plague (latin pestis). In Danish, and I suspect many other languages as well, pest can be used in a broader way, about any pestilence, as in English, about diseases, people and phenomena in general. Not sure this really answers your question, but I think my point is that pest in English is simply the vague and poorly defined form, whereas the plague is the specific and well defined form.
(DIR) Post #B6cbbABTRcLi6yJMNk by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:25:54Z
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@futurebird aside the mess, anything wrong with squashing them on the spot? I did assume a very limited capacity for feeling pain 😬
(DIR) Post #B6cbjPiRa7LibCfPDU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:27:24Z
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@tshirtman Nothing wrong with it and it's probably as "humane" as any other method. The one downside is that when you squish and aphid all of the sugar comes out and gets on the plant and this can cause mold if you don't have ants to clean it up. The juice aphids make is not good for plant leaves.
(DIR) Post #B6cbmJNPbhTjo6D9QO by Zahlenzauberin@dresden.network
2026-05-24T12:27:53Z
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@futurebird I work in fruit farming and for me the ants are not pests as they do not hurt the trees, the aphids they are farming are because they spread diseases and can weaken trees by their feeding on the sap.
(DIR) Post #B6cbv0Ge1XKV9CBrCy by funkula@goblin.camp
2026-05-24T12:29:27Z
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@futurebird yeah that seems likely. We had a persistent problem with birds deciding to take precisely one bite out of each tomato so if it was going to rot anyway, might as well feed some ants first
(DIR) Post #B6cby30uGo2cX7HSPw by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:30:02Z
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@futurebird good to know, thanks a lot!
(DIR) Post #B6ccVmb1oeN3SfGKWW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:36:09Z
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@tshirtman Thinking "why is this creature here?" and "why is this creature a pest?" have lead me to think about some questions that I think most people in NYC never consider. "Why are roaches a pest?"People will quickly respond "Because they spread disease." but this doesn't hold up well when you look into it. They are not a vector for any major disease. It's really because the conditions that allow roaches to thrive are messy and gross. They are a symptom of neglect and disorder. 1/
(DIR) Post #B6ccpSQwURCoifvVBI by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:39:42Z
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@tshirtman The other reason that roaches are considered pests, beyond their attraction to messy food storage, water leaks and other problems is their ability to reproduce rapidly. Given food, shelter and water they can explode in numbers and live in densities that few other insects can match. They are just "too good" at reproducing and exploiting the garbage and excess of human dwellings. And this is very upsetting. If they never increased in numbers they might not be seen as pests. 2/2
(DIR) Post #B6cdAkWaQI2cuQieEy by siftinsand@aus.social
2026-05-24T12:43:30Z
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@futurebird Ants walk in my pumpkin flowers so I suspect they help with pollination. Ants don't seem to eat the pumpkins themselves
(DIR) Post #B6cdJhky5GJgvkiTD6 by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:45:09Z
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@futurebird considering they are a symptom, not a cause, can we infer that if they didn't come and eat up the excess unprotected food, the risk of unsanitary conditions would likely be higher? i.e yes, they are bad news, but they are not the problem, they mitigate it, fix the problem, no the symptome?
(DIR) Post #B6cdPSg13zTjtm93YW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:46:12Z
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@siftinsand Pumpkins are too low sugar to interest ants much. They do like squash flowers and while bees do a better job with pollination I wouldn't count the ants out. It's worth tracking any ants you see to see if they will lead you to aphids. I see nothing wrong with taking away their aphids. They have many other options and don't need to have a big flock of (somehow still cute) plant sucking little vampires just to survive.
(DIR) Post #B6cdZsCb0zmrxbLgO0 by johnzajac@dice.camp
2026-05-24T12:48:02Z
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@futurebird @tshirtman I use nasturtiums for aphids. And they're pretty!
(DIR) Post #B6cdgI2lqkPdqNoSKO by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:49:12Z
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@tshirtman Something will come for the excess food and badly managed fresh water. Maybe mice, maybe ants, maybe mold if nothing else finds it. It can't just sit there and not decay, nature must move on! So we need to decide what we want that to look like. I think a compost pile with worms and beneficial mites that produced wonderful fertile soil for gardens would be nice. We could have THAT instead.
(DIR) Post #B6cdkHxM7HREjPBdJo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T12:49:57Z
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@johnzajac @tshirtman What are nasturtiums? A kind of flower?
(DIR) Post #B6ce4K4jwnJt5yC4GG by farbel@mas.to
2026-05-24T12:53:34Z
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@futurebird I have leafcutter ants. They killed all of my vines and all of my herbs. That is war!
(DIR) Post #B6ce84xi538nNdhF9U by clarablackink@writing.exchange
2026-05-24T12:54:11Z
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@futurebird This year both the chipmunk(s) and squirrels have been very invasive in my garden. Often digging up plants they aren't eating anything from. It has been heartbreaking because they're just ruining plants and its been causing a lot of feels despite me enjoying seeing them around last year.We're in a pretty severe drought and one of the most aggressive squirrels was pregnant.But, the bad feels are hard to shake because the gardening was a refuge from everything.
(DIR) Post #B6ceFE0WqdcPSfQFY8 by otte_homan@theblower.au
2026-05-24T12:55:16Z
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@futurebird I recommend to read https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-05-24/visualising-australias-mouse-plague/106696622 about mouse infestations. Similar to roaches, I suppose. @tshirtman
(DIR) Post #B6ceMt22ic4AiumfM8 by Mightyrama@mstdn.social
2026-05-24T12:56:54Z
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@futurebird I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Pests: How Humans Create Animal Villains by Bethany Brookshire is good.
(DIR) Post #B6cerrqRBNCw1D81T6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:02:32Z
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@clarablackink My garden is tiny. It's a roofgarden and I made all of the soil myself from compost... it's just so hard. A baby raccoon has been coming up to the 6th floor and digging up the garden at night. Killed all of my basil. Wasted some of my precious soil by spilling it on the roof. I have been bringing #picaTheCat out to the garden and brushing her there (so the garden will smell like cat I hope) and I think the smell of her hair may be helping. But the feelings are SERIOUS.
(DIR) Post #B6cf80F9ixA8hSNspc by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T13:01:25Z
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@otte_homan @futurebird the amount of food we grow is absolutely unnatural, and species will take advantage if given the chance, it's a hard problem.but i can tell you my wif will never set foot in australia if she learns about this.
(DIR) Post #B6cf80xp2stKvzHYS8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:05:27Z
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@tshirtman @otte_homan There are mice in our school and I tell the middle school students and they are SHOCKED. Middle school students attract mice. Our school bans very few things but we recently banned popcorn because they just can't keep it off the got dang floor. OMG ><
(DIR) Post #B6cfCvsNOClEbQ50oC by davep@infosec.exchange
2026-05-24T13:06:19Z
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@futurebird @clarablackink Just imagine being the poor raccoon. After finally finding a bit of natural soil he's smelling a big cat in the environs...
(DIR) Post #B6cfHTZg2dMYH5V3oW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:07:10Z
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@clarablackink I am impressed that the little raccoon climbed the fire escape 6 floors just to dig in my tiny little patch of dirt. That is dedication. But, I hope I can scare it back to the rail yard where they seem to live.
(DIR) Post #B6cfQHaFzYFZgzyEWO by siftinsand@aus.social
2026-05-24T13:08:44Z
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@futurebird Thank you for the information:)Given I see the ants in my pumpkin flowers in a dry hot Australian summer, would they be looking for moisture?
(DIR) Post #B6cfVATJrRjp5E3TH6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:09:39Z
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@siftinsand Yes, the flowers have a bit of nectar at the bottom and ants will love drinking that. Do you know what kind of ants they are?
(DIR) Post #B6cgTF63nLSknmozgG by jmcclure@sciences.social
2026-05-24T13:20:27Z
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@futurebird "Pest" is a slur.More familiar slurs are targeted towards people of certain backgrounds to justify violence against them. "Pest" is just the slur we use to justify exterminating other species (or on occasion our own)."Pest" appears scientific articles today the same way that now-objectionable racial slurs once were commonplace in scientific papers.I'm not (presently) arguing that killing some creatures may be necessary, but that choice should not be facilitated by slurs.
(DIR) Post #B6cgXY37GukqjyUuf2 by siftinsand@aus.social
2026-05-24T13:21:15Z
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@futurebird Interesting:)I'm not sure what type of ant - black, about 5mm long, dig burrows, not particularly aggressive. I live in Melbourne Australia and they are probably the most common type of ant here if that helps?
(DIR) Post #B6cgshCKS865CBtHX6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:25:06Z
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@jmcclure "Pest" is a slur.I think I agree. Although it's hard to have this conversation without someone being disingenuous and saying "well do you think I should just drown in roaches? are you saying to do nothing and get eaten by mice???"When in reality I'm thinking that we need to do MORE not less. Eradication, pesticides, all of these eliminationist solutions are LAZY. Trying to spray away the problem is lazy. Removing the source of the ecological imbalance is harder.
(DIR) Post #B6cgzKgKZ7IxOG5XrE by clarablackink@writing.exchange
2026-05-24T13:26:16Z
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@futurebird I'm upset for you!I'm not sure why we don't have raccoons but I'm grateful. They're adorable at a distance but I imagine they're too much of a cat + human hybrid once they're in your home space.
(DIR) Post #B6chc0aDE3GCLhfWFM by jmcclure@sciences.social
2026-05-24T13:33:17Z
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@futurebird Indeed. I don't make any prohibition on our action towards other creatures.I definitely kill ants if / when their numbers grow to excess in my home. But not because they are pests, but because I am. My influence and my bad kitchen cleaning fueled the surge in the ant population in my kitchen. I need to undo (some of) the harm that my presence inflicted on the ecosystem.But the right plants and a few spiders seem more useful than chemical weapons of mass destruction to me.
(DIR) Post #B6ciJFtOBKbSHYGBqy by tshirtman@mas.to
2026-05-24T13:35:58Z
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@otte_homan @futurebird She is afraid of many things, but the level triggered by mice is off the charts, i had a few sleepless nights back in the days when she spotted one in our old tiny place, had she had access to any weapon, i'm not sure we would have survived.I wonder if there is some predisposition to hating them, given how many people are deeply disgusted by them, similarly to arachnophobia, it seems to me that agriculture is too recent for that, but i might be off on multiple things.
(DIR) Post #B6ciJHOyZNSoxo2vj6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:40:51Z
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@tshirtman @otte_homan Sometimes pests can trigger a deeper fear of the kind of misery and poverty these creatures can represent. Despite raising feeder roaches for my ants and knowing a great deal about them I'm still skeeved out if I see one in the basement, or in the subway. And not skeeved out in a rational way "we should address this issue" but just upset. But, my mom taught me that reaction by example. To her they represent poverty, suffering, all bad things.
(DIR) Post #B6ciUnnoRfZqdb9qZE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T13:43:12Z
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@tshirtman @otte_homan Mice are arguably a bigger health risk, but they don't freak me out... but I have never seen the adult I trust most in my life near tears and visibly frightened because there was a roach in her sisters home in Texas. For a long time I thought if one touched you, you would simply die. (when I was like 8 I thought this)
(DIR) Post #B6cjfnVtxYWIshaS12 by craignicol@glasgow.social
2026-05-24T13:56:18Z
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@futurebird context matters too for classification. There's a difference between ants in the garden and ants under the house. Definitely know folks who consider cats to be a pest because of the damage they can do to a garden, but their owners tend to disagree.
(DIR) Post #B6cmd1siNogKR7d4jo by asakiyume@wandering.shop
2026-05-24T14:29:26Z
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@futurebird @johnzajac @tshirtman Yes, a very pretty flower:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropaeolum
(DIR) Post #B6cmuZ5kA5yoMJ5KSW by ghosttie@mastodon.gamedev.place
2026-05-24T14:32:39Z
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@futurebird I think like "weed" it means "currently undesirable to humans in this context"There are species of grass that are used as lawn in one part of the country that are considered weeds in other parts
(DIR) Post #B6cot0dCzyBj6K7k12 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-24T14:54:47Z
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@colorblindcowboy @Samosthenurus I always thought that song about the old woman who swallowed a fly was about Australia.
(DIR) Post #B6cqlMC19Ks1Z2stBg by NatureMC@mastodon.online
2026-05-24T15:15:48Z
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@futurebird Just a side thought: there's a lot of debate among scientists/ecologists about the definition of 'invasive species' because wandering and adaption in climate crisis will be essential for surviving and because many didn't 'invade' but were brought by humans. Therefore, a growing number of scientists see that definition connected to colonial thinking, even parallels to racism. And the concept of 'pests' in connection to anthropocentrism and parallels to eugenics etc. @tshirtman
(DIR) Post #B6crhsR1QsZCMBo6Ge by billseitz@toolsforthought.social
2026-05-24T15:26:20Z
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@futurebird @tshirtman the main reason is that they will crawl over you while you're asleep
(DIR) Post #B6csjT3cr7iIBSBaj2 by billseitz@toolsforthought.social
2026-05-24T15:37:52Z
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@futurebird @tshirtman @otte_homan every first-time suburban Illinois homeowner: "So, how do you keep the mice out of your basement?"Grizzled veteran takes a long drag on his cigarette...
(DIR) Post #B6ct53RelLx57RifwW by NatureMC@mastodon.online
2026-05-24T15:41:46Z
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@futurebird We have more and more natural possibilities like buying larvae of ladybeetles against aphids in farming. @jmcclure
(DIR) Post #B6dEdleyye538HLXmq by danpmoore@mathstodon.xyz
2026-05-24T19:43:20Z
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@futurebird @beebrookshire Sounds like Bethany Brookshire
(DIR) Post #B6dsWDiml4Xw0s55yi by beadsland@beige.party
2026-05-25T03:10:09Z
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@futurebird This seems more a question of anthropology. See the work of Hugh Raffles.
(DIR) Post #B6hSg3RrD9fbu7Navg by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2026-05-26T20:39:14Z
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@futurebird I think so, but can't remember a source.