Post 9gM5boNpFQP0CVLT9M by izaya@social.shadowkat.net
(DIR) More posts by izaya@social.shadowkat.net
(DIR) Post #9gLN5imQ9K09ZYjmF6 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-03-02T00:28:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Pleeeeease stop making new chat software
(DIR) Post #9gLN8RDVu9UnyEhmnQ by dtluna@leftlibertarian.club
2019-03-02T00:28:47.334258Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir there isn't a good p2p chat
(DIR) Post #9gLNEaSwQlDiOPqzEu by pea@fuckonthefirst.date
2019-03-02T00:29:43.126900Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir there's no even remotely half-decent chat software, other than centralized siloware
(DIR) Post #9gLNSlcvjMUr3wHsLQ by DHeadshot@xkcd.network
2019-03-02T00:32:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sirWhy?Sent from software utilising chat over IP over Morse over Carrier Pigeon over...(There'll probably be an IRC bridge too as well)
(DIR) Post #9gLNcUd7mNwbFA12rg by carl@linuxrocks.online
2019-03-02T00:33:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirCompletely agree
(DIR) Post #9gLQBMCRJbIR8nHonI by amiloradovsky@functional.cafe
2019-03-02T01:02:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Software or protocols?
(DIR) Post #9gLZGDze9WqOizhMuW by faun@merveilles.town
2019-03-02T02:44:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir No I need to make one for big nested chats, like, tree rather than sequence. Nobody's done it yet.
(DIR) Post #9gLsxfaFLXy1sMFPHM by vpzom@mess.casa
2019-03-02T06:25:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir gonna disagree there
(DIR) Post #9gLymVfQTVA3eyjRMe by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T07:30:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Pleeeease tell me how to convince techbros to use IRC.
(DIR) Post #9gLz3scqMy1vmqo5Me by cutscenes@shitposter.club
2019-03-02T07:31:42.002257Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir I've yet to see an entire IRC network rendered unusable due to a server going down. I cannot say the same for Discord or Slack.
(DIR) Post #9gLz3spFcpxGPKbzhg by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T07:33:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cutscenes @sir Same here, but for some weird reason, this argument alone doesn't convince anyone I tried to get on IRC.... :/
(DIR) Post #9gLzpqUraSkH5Jwhou by cutscenes@shitposter.club
2019-03-02T07:35:16.231897Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir What's stopping them from using IRC other than laziness? There's arguments against it but a lot of them have workarounds...I guess one option is to get an IRC bot running in a channel and play around with that. There's a shitload of libraries for writing your own, and if you really want to you can even reinvent the wheel without too much pain.
(DIR) Post #9gLzpqdN4pYDVhvV56 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T07:42:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cutscenes @sir Most counter-arguments I hear:- lack of history- can't send images- can't send files- can't send syntax-highlighted code snippetsarguments I don't hear because they never get far enough to notice these issues:- hard to use on mobile- authentication and channel management is done through service bots instead of having a nice UI
(DIR) Post #9gM02Lc5iq1D4AHvBQ by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T07:44:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cutscenes @sir And of course I know that all those "disadvantages" are in fact features. And if they were "fixed" it'd degrade the quality of discussion (or at least I want to believe so). But this doesn't seem to convince anyone who is used to Slack or FB Messenger and hasn't spent a lot of time on IRC
(DIR) Post #9gM0qafg0mlUFKvGk4 by cutscenes@shitposter.club
2019-03-02T07:47:08.661255Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir Images, files and code snippets (even syntax highlighted if you need that crap!) can be done via 3rd party services and posting a URL (or DCC if you have ports suitably open). Of course, posting inline images would definitely degrade the experience.Lack of history has two main workarounds, one is to have a logbot in your channel, and the other is to use a suitable bouncer.Have they complained that you can't edit or delete what you've written? Because that's a feature I'd love to see on Discord.
(DIR) Post #9gM0qay6uFVhAVXzTU by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T07:53:50Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@cutscenes @sir >Images, files and code snippets can be done via 3rd party servicesYes, but they say it's a nuisance.>logbotHaven't tried, but guess they'd complain the logs are not in the chat window>bouncerThey don't have VPS, and if they use my ZNC, it's as SPOF as Slack.>Have they complained that you can't edit or delete what you've written?No, either they didn't get that far, or didn't mind.Btw. they'd probably also want push notifications on their phone.
(DIR) Post #9gM1KJsV0r6Gqo626K by doenietzomoeilijk@mastodon.nl
2019-03-02T07:58:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Google: You wanted more chat clients? Say no more fam.
(DIR) Post #9gM1u2K1lMdkpK0HOC by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:05:41Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@cutscenes @sir Btw. something I noticed is that IRC is good for ephemeral real-time communication, but sucks for (for lack of a better word) "persistent", slow-paced communication. For persistent you use email, which in turn sucks for real-time ephemeral chat.So you're forced to decide if your message is important and deserves a long email, or if you just want to loosely talk with someone now.Slack et al. try to be good at both ephemeral and long-term comms.
(DIR) Post #9gM55VmirRAbFgaZN2 by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T08:41:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl@cutscenes @sirLike XMPP, matrix and all others.Slack just copied what was there and turned it into money, they did not invented anything and so should not be used as an example for an technology
(DIR) Post #9gM5OeLTG1fLIty4Bs by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:44:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 @cutscenes @sir By "Slack et al." I mean "all those new shiny chats".And AFAIK Slack is older than Matrix, but the idea is definitely not a new one.Also, IMO XMPP fortunately doesn't qualify, as its MUC history is usually limited to the last few lines (like 10-20?), just enough to get context but not more.Also, IMO that blending of ephemeral and long-term comms in the way most mainstream chat apps do is harmful.It may be convenient in short term, but bites later.
(DIR) Post #9gM5WMrw7NedQ0pk9o by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:46:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 @cutscenes @sir From what I've heard, Apache Wave did it right, letting you organize old chat messages into more and more structured docs.
(DIR) Post #9gM5boNpFQP0CVLT9M by izaya@social.shadowkat.net
2019-03-02T08:47:13.781020Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @vamp898 @cutscenes @sir server-side MUC history has no strict limit and in Gajim I can set the history sync up to a week, pretty sure Conversation just scrolls upwards indefinitely.
(DIR) Post #9gM5i1zNZiCa8SsOdU by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:48:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@izaya @sir @cutscenes @vamp898 Oh, forgot about MAM, which IIRC stores your whole archive on the server side.But it's a new extension, it wasn't there before Slack was a thing.
(DIR) Post #9gM5oY3bG9czKXxTIu by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T08:49:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl@cutscenes @sirI think you are wrong informed. My MUC History goes back to 2012
(DIR) Post #9gM6I0kded22io8cts by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:54:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 @cutscenes @sir only messages when you were online, or do I get all that history if I join the MUC now?
(DIR) Post #9gM6S6bkjZslmWnMxc by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T08:56:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl@cutscenes @sirAll
(DIR) Post #9gM6SX06beoLdaOBWq by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:56:44Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@vamp898 @cutscenes @sir My point is, if all your messages, important or not, are shoved into one bag, finding something important from 1 year ago is a PITA.Also, digging through a day of chit-chat to find out if sth important happened is a PITA too.One way to solve it is to force people to decide how important their message is, and pick medium, and time devoted to prepaing the message, based on that.Another is to let them do it retroactively, which is what Wave supposedly tried.
(DIR) Post #9gM6UbjvxPWaumoajQ by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T08:57:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 Masaka!Can I see? :P
(DIR) Post #9gM6yTRXMvEds2S3BA by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T09:02:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480plIts a private chat with family and friends, certainly not :P but why makes think that should not work? Also, at least kopete, does have an good search that finds things flawless and you can nest searches (search in search results or highlight words and so on, save as CSV and grep, yada yada) while with slack, you find tons of unrelated content. Often I have to search for several minutes in slack due to billion mentions in threads and whatever
(DIR) Post #9gM7LMxrcdEqRDUP4a by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T09:06:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 >why makes think that should not work?It'd have to be all stored on the server, and AFAIK.. oh, nvm I can set the MUC history limit to 2000000000000.I thought the server would impose some upper bound like 100, so as to not run out of disk space, but looks like the one I use doesn't.
(DIR) Post #9gM7TnhI79jtfGl3Ls by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T09:08:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480plI have transparent compression enabled on my server, so until now its only a few mb yet
(DIR) Post #9gM8YkCedIgUEJLhOy by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T09:20:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 I was wondering how well it works on servers with open registration and lots of users but... XMPP was never popular so maybe it was never a problem :P
(DIR) Post #9gM8iH1PyzrGcbdZRI by wowaname@anime.website
2019-03-02T09:22:02.110932Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @vamp898 uh, perhaps you're forgetting google talk?
(DIR) Post #9gM8kVu7cbc5MEICrg by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T09:22:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @vamp898 google servers OP, can store unlimited number of personal data :P
(DIR) Post #9gM8lDMe2Qyk98y5nE by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T09:22:30Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @vamp898 nerf google pls
(DIR) Post #9gM8mIK95Fn1onJXhQ by wowaname@anime.website
2019-03-02T09:22:45.684376Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @vamp898 i really do want to know how big corps optimise their software for heavy load
(DIR) Post #9gM95lzL14uzK4ryym by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T09:26:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @vamp898 when I started looking into XMPP, (around 2012) GTalk was already dying.Also, in 2014 the Encryption Manifesto[1] went into force, cutting off GTalk which doesn't support TLS.[1]: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Securing_XMPP#Encryption_Manifesto_.28archived.29
(DIR) Post #9gM99ILt94UKZ964OW by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-03-02T09:26:52Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @vamp898 hmm... I think looking into Ceph may be a good start.
(DIR) Post #9gMDchKTl7hoFJiIW8 by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T09:52:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @Wolf480pl I worked for an company with 130'000 employee and was responsible for so called "Number Crunchers", HPC Clusters.There are several ways:- Optimised compilers (LTO, graphite)- Direct Attached Hardware (SAS rather than NAS/SAN)- Optimized Kernels- Software compiled with optimisation (-O3, -march)
(DIR) Post #9gMDdytHx3UT09biF6 by vamp898@mastodon.juggler.jp
2019-03-02T10:03:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @Wolf480pl But some companies don't optimized at all (not kidding). I know an Google Employee and he told me how their Web Servers work, and they do _not_ recommend to copy that method.Just because a company is big, doesn't mean that they use best technology or in the best way.It just means they are financial successfull
(DIR) Post #9gMDfpl6sIHNG5fIxc by wowaname@anime.website
2019-03-02T10:17:37.132905Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vamp898 @Wolf480pl interesting, thank you
(DIR) Post #9gN7qDgmLvZPo0AVkm by tk@m.tkte.ch
2019-03-02T20:46:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir