Subj : USB 3 Issue? To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Wed Mar 04 2020 11:07:00 Hi Ky! > > So I taught you something for a change! :) > KM> It can happen, despite myself. > "Sometimes better to bend in the breeze like the mighty willow." KM> Willow grow on riverbank. River flood, willow become raft. :P Sell to a person downriver: bye/buy raft@! > KM> WTF is IOMMU ?? > IDK! KM> AASQ... Get a thousand replies in the forum! > Input Output Memory Management Unit -- which stil doesn't mean much to > me, especially as to get USB 2 and 3 working properly it's turn IOMMU > off, install Ubuntu with a additional command, on reboot turn IOMMU back > on and allow the install to complete. Instructions are on-line; not > complicated, just the "why isn't it done automaticlly?" feeling. KM> Um, yeah... stupid Debian under there... never, ever again want KM> to hear some linux weenie crow about all the interruptions during KM> a Windows install. Never had to babysit any OS install so much in KM> my life, plus it took an hour. Debian did not stay. I'll have to agree somewhat: did have to babysit the IOMMU part but the rest of the install went fine -- once I found out the one RAM stick was faulty. Seems like the IOMMU switching issue could and should be worked around -- can't be done remotely. KM> Conversely, PCLOS is a few clicks and takes five minutes. "All depends": my Ubuntu 18.04 install -- once figured out the problems -- took maybe a half-hour to forty-five minutes and that was with the automatic updates. Took a while to format the drive (3 TB), then installed Firefox, LibreOffice, etc., from the ISO, and then uninstall and install the updated versions because I had ticked to install updates during the install. Seems would be easier and certainly faster to "if new available then don't install old" but probably easier said than done. > Without this little 'dance' I had where the keyboard and mouse plugged > in to the rear USB 2.0 ports stopped working. My new machine also has > on the front panel a pair of USB 2 and USB 3 each. Front USB 2 also > didn't work but the USB 3 did. On reboot the USB 3 didn't work but the > UBS 2 did.... Arghhh! KM> There's a bug in a lot of mainboard designs where either front KM> USB or back USB will work, but not at the same time. This was so KM> common for a while I didn't bother plugging in the front ones. I don't think I've run in to that one -- plug in a thumbdrive and the mouse and keyboard stop working!! > My personal experience was 'annoying' but I also had a faulty RAM > stick. It tested fine on the quick tests so looked to be fine but a > couple of minutes into the extended testing and the errors popped up. KM> Well, that'll do it... RAM dies but rarely, but when it does... It was brand-new-slice-open-package but still still can be faulty. Like probably most people I assumed it was good. The stick passed the quick tests, which is what I would guess install procedures use to check. Oh well - good training experience. Frustrating, though! > The RAM issue and the IOMMU issue combined... had thought of that > computer you said you hung on the fence as a lesson to the other > computers! KM> That was a typewriter! But the principle is the same. It's Been KM> Warned. Probably easier to hang a typewriter on a fence than a computer! > KM> Tho this is WinXP; its twin had PCLinuxOS on it, on a removable > KM> drive, but since PCLOS is now on one of the Dells, that'un will > KM> be used to swap out this'un so I can rebuild it with the New! > KM> Improved!! guts. > That almost needs to be drawn on the chalkboard to be understood! > Have done similar here: build a new computer, upgrade others, maybe > change the usual usage, so to keep costs down reuse some hardware. KM> Haha... had been delaying because the logistics were untenable. KM> Then Silver's guts tried to die, so I can just eject 'em, no need KM> to play musical motherboards. That makes things easier when don't have to have two boxes working at the same time. I've reused cases, though some times have found it would have been easier to get new: one recent issue was the cables for the ATX Power Connector were squished under the HDD cage. Must have been for a smaller verions of the ATX motherboard. KM> Anyway, that got done today... Silver is now sitting there empty KM> and naked, awaiting New! Improved!! innards, and Cash has been KM> repurposed as the WinXP machine, since it required nothing but KM> copy the drive over and wait for it to whine a bit about KM> different video card. (Didn't want to swap it because Cash might KM> need to run its old PCLOS install again, and linux throws more KM> fits about such things.) I don't recall having to much problem with Linux and video, though I may have been side-stepping it because of a preference of MythTV in the past to have liked nVidia over other options, KM> Addendum: Silver is now Silver II, with shiny 'new' (only 5 years KM> old) innards, but yet awaiting an OS. XP won't run and I'd KM> forgotten how annoying naked Win7 is. Linux, sadly, isn't quite KM> there for everyday. XP probably needs approval from Redmond so that might be the answer to that problem. (Wonder what will happen when I install a new virtual XP? The current ones I think were before the end of support.) As for Linux and everyday, around here seems to be fine. Do run into issues where 'only runs under Windows' but that's similar to when the Macs were the go-to machine for graphic design. (Bet there's a more up- to-date example, just can't come up with one based on what I do.) > KM> When I get it apart, I'll stick the PSU on the tester that reads > KM> voltage; seems to be very accurate. I don't think anything this > KM> mainboard says can be trusted at this point. KM> And according to the tester, the PSU is fine. However... Seems to point to mainboard issues. Or something attached drawing more power than should. KM> The reason the board was misbehaving was flamingly obvious once I KM> had all the other junk out of the way: Two blown capacitors, as KM> in tried to explode and have rods of boiled-off gunk sticking out KM> the top. (First time I've seen a PC throw a rod...) So I'd guess KM> those two caps just happen to be in the voltage-control circuit, KM> and durn good thing it decided to fade rather than spike! Ah! Those cap's would do it! I had a NARRA5 motherboard with a few of those. The cap's weren't quite as bad as what you described. KM> This was where I also noted a subtle difference between these KM> identical boards: KM> Good one: PCB made in Taiwan. KM> Bad one: PCB made in China. (And version label is pasted on KM> rather than silkscreened.) Initially I'd guess the same board just made in two different factories but the version lable thing almost indicates some other minor difference -- addition of a component manually tacked in? Used the old motherboard supply. > Make sure the readings are done under load: plug in an old inefficient > current-sucking hard drive. I haven't had with a PSU but with a UPS > battery where the battery initially tests good but a hare more draw the > battery fails (no output). Thinking a power supply could do similar: KM> My tester simulates draw, tho you can usually get different KM> readings by adding a couple fans or HDs. I was already an Enermax KM> bigot, and became a worse one after I used it to test all the KM> "tested good" PSUs and found only Enermax were 100% good ALL the KM> time (no spikes or sags). Sort of because of you I've been using PSUs with higher current/wattage capabilities. If a PSU needs replacing have been increasing the specs -- orig 300 W, replace with a 700W, for example. Sometimes can't: have at least one computer where the PSU has to be the same to fit because of the L-shape. > work fine with a light draw, then shut off when the load becomes too > much. Yes, "fuse" and "circuit breaker" come to mind, so can "crowbar > circuit" which is effectively an automatically resetting circuit > breaker. KM> Hadn't heard that term :D Learn something new! And don't necessarily have to know how it works, just is and is a different way of protecting a circuit. > Would be funny if 'just' that IOMMU setting! KM> It would be a lot better than two exploded capacitors!! Which probably also means other are ready to! > > KM> Regardless... Something Went Wrong! > > I tend to concur! > KM> D'oh!! ("Something Went Wrong!" is the standard Mac error > KM> message. Very helpful, in Apple's usual way.) > Yeah: I know 'something went wrong'! KM> It sure did! Plus reminded me of Dad's tube-type amplifier. We smelt something 'hot' but couldn't figure out what it was. Music was on. I finally happened to see something odd through the grill vents ==> was a resistor about the diameter and length on one's little finger glowing red hot. Ended up a capacitor failed, causing too much current through the resistor, causing it to glow (was wirewound and IIRC 7 Watts -- think the brighter of the two night light bulbs available), also damaged another resistor which was 25 W ==> could see the plastic covering had melted some. > KM> Haha, yes. Thus have I acquired two copies of Vista, tho the one > KM> on the faster machine ran like crap and was ejected for Win7, > KM> which runs better there. Someone please explain to me why two > KM> identical Vistas, neither with any OEM crapware, have their > KM> hardware performance backwards! > Just to annoy you! I think it might be partially due to (how's that > for a wiggle-phrase?!) tolerances: slight variances in the individual > parts (even within integrated circuits, etc.), so a fraction gain here, > fraction loss there. KM> No, these are different lines entirely. The faster Vista is an KM> HP, Asus board, AMD CPU (which are usually much slower than the KM> nominally similar Intel). The slow Vista is a Dell, Foxconn KM> board, Intel CPU -- tho it's much better with Win7. So probably KM> some Vista-specific driver that's bogus on the Dell. I didn't KM> care enough to pursue it; if I was gonna be annoyed by changes to KM> the OS, might as well have Win7, which ran much better. I'm starting to think for future builds I should go back to Intel. When I started Linux Intel was more compatible so went with them. Then either AMD wised up and saw they were missing out in the marketplace and so worked with Linux. Your comments, others' comments, and a bit of personal experience indicate Intel is still the better of the two. > > Correction: it is Lexar, but no, it is 128 MB: Model JDSP128-04-500A. > KM> Really? Holy crap. I still have a Cruzer of that era somewhere, > KM> but gods know which box it's in cuz it's nowhere to be found. In > KM> its day USB was still so hit or miss that I never got in the > KM> habit of using it. > I think Dad may have given it to me for use with a digital camera, or > maybe to Sneakernet, ...I'm trying to think what to do with it - just a > bit quirky but no one here really would know as they don't get into the > details. I'm thinking maybe using it with an older Raspberry Pi for a > 'fun' project. KM> And too good to throw away... as storage on a Pi sounds good. I KM> wound up with a bunch of flash drives I was using as Poor Man's KM> external HDs. For fun I had the Lexar 128 MB on this machine for a while -- shows up on the Desktop as an external drive and I did use it a few times as a scratchpad device. ...Hanging it off a RPi seems a logical use, though still a bit odd as have been using microSDs of 32 and 64 GB. Maybe SneakerNet? Will find some 'quirky' use! > KM> Niftiest flash drive: one in the shape of a padlock from Symantec > KM> (and it's all metal, so it's as heavy as a real lock). You push > KM> in the hasp to expose the USB connector. I don't know what I did > KM> to earn it, but one day it arrived in the mail. Musta been > KM> conference fodder I'd long since forgotten about. > Don't drop it on your toe! I tend to avoid the cutsie devices but that KM> This has already been done! Yup! It's solidly made! > KM> So went looking on eBay to see if it has any particular collector > KM> value (didn't find any samples) but discovered this actual > KM> combination lock flash drive: > Ah! I was thinking the 'traditional' padlock with the curved metal bar KM> Like mine! Oh! They must have changed design: the link displayed one which was long and narrow and had three or four laterally rotating number rings, and I don't recall a metal bar latch. Yours (and my original visualization) is like a typical lock: -- / \ | | _________ | | | | | | ------- > but that one is an attention-getter too. As far as eBay prices, I've > also found they are not always the lowest KM> True, especially as the pool of suckers expands. And true of other advertisers. I get various e-advertisements (glance through and delete) - occasionally something will catch my eye and when go check the sale price it's the same or close to other sources, so either all all selling around the same price. ...OTOH have seen where everybody is selling at (say) $45-55 and a couple of vendors selling the same thing for several hundred dollars. > > > > > Will continue to ground-before-insert just as a good ractice > > > > KM> If only because *I* don't like getting zapped. :) > > > > So we have found out you're not into that cheap a thrill!! > > > KM> I am no fun at an electrocution. :P > > > That comes as no shock! > > KM> I prefer dynamic to static. > > AC? DC is more fun! > KM> Surely you can sing better than that. > I barely carry a tune in a bucket! KM> And my bucket leaks. Why am I thinking "incontinence hotline - can you hold please?" joke?! > KM> And as I respond up above (we are nothing if not redundant!) PSU > You can say that again! KM> That again! Good night, Gracie! > KM> gets tested too, when all apart. But board was already suspect, > KM> just had the wrong suspect in custody. > "It was my evil twin, honest!" KM> It was! more evil than we knew. "Look at meee!" ("Hehe: clown's squirting flower have nothing on me!") > KM> Needed a small-footprint heatsink for an AMD hotplate that I > KM> didn't have the right size ready to hand... so used the above > KM> copper heatsink. CPU stayed tolerable but HOLY CRAP did this > KM> thing get hot. Yeah, it transmits heat just fine!! > I'm think the "AMD approved" heatsink and fan for the CPU in this > computer isn't all that it should be. Had to air dust again the other > day but wasn't that much - yes, a a thin layer but seems like shouldn't > be killing the thing. The other computers up here have just as much > dust. Maybe a water cooler type? Any experience? KM> AMD's stock heatsinks are crap -- too small and all aluminum. AMD KM> CPUs get too hot for anything less than copper core, and KM> preferably solid copper heatsink. OK - so they tend to save money where they should not. KM> I got this for the better AMD: KM> https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-Socket-Heat-Sink-ACC-9520/dp/B000HR KM> PHKE KM> Works absolutely wonderfully; dropped CPU temp by about 30 KM> degrees. All copper heatsink, and the fan is nearly silent, too. OK, thanks! I'll check to make certain fits mine (FX-8320) and order. ....PSensor, etc., the CPU temperature did seem to be too hot. And some runnings sent it over. KM> Except I paid about $11 on eBay. And liked the first one so much KM> that I ordered another, get while the getting was good. Fits the KM> AM2+ socket perfect; 939 socket not so much -- can be forced, but KM> why bother, since that thing is too slow to use for anything but KM> dire emergencies. IIRC this is a AM3+ socket but should get me in the right area. As for prices, I do check multiple sourcres. :) > KM> 'em all tested and matched to one another, those AMD boards might > KM> depart to eBay, not like I'm short and vintage gaming boards are > KM> all the rage lately. > If you have the storage room and the time to sell them. OTOH if it KM> I have the storage; I may not have the patience. It would be interesting to see how long some of the items have been listed on eBay. > (Maybe I should start avoiding AMD -- this computer is AMD but so is the > one I'm using for MythTV and it's fine.) KM> I'll take AMDs if they fall on my head, but I won't pay money for KM> 'em. Seen too many bugs and too many fails, and WAY too much not KM> near as fast as claimed once you set 'em to doing real work, not KM> just gamer-suckering benchmarks. (Eg. Westworld's CPU supposedly KM> is faster than a high-end Core2Quad. In Real Life it's about 40% KM> slower than a midrange Core2Duo.) And from the donor pile at KM> AVMUG... about half the AMD-based boards and/or CPUs were DOA. KM> Few of the Intel-based boards, and NONE of the Intel CPUs were KM> dead. Hmmmmmm!! Seems to verify what I'm typed up there a bit! LIS (I think -- too lazy to scroll up), it seems AMD is good but Intel is better. Quite sure there are exceptions (I still refuse to buy Celeron!) but seems like I ran into less problems with Intel-based stuff. And that statement is probably somewhat biased as I don't have any Intel-based boards with IOMMU, or at least I know of. > KM> Yeah, they have vidcards now too (NVidia chips, IIRC), I have a > KM> couple of 'em I picked up because they were reasonably modern yet > KM> fanless. > I don't recall which is which right now but I have a fanless video card > which works/worked fine except the heat sink is so huge it extends into > the next slot position. Most do stay within their confines but some are > a bit tight. KM> I lied, I have four of the fanless sort, but all with compact KM> heatsinks, so they only drive in their own lane. And I'm KM> eyeing one on eBay, with more RAM... Silver's new guts deserve KM> better... OTTOMH I'd say go with a video card of at least 1 GB if not 2. Less will cause video tearing, or at least does with MythTV playback of a HD source. I have no experience with 4K videos, though "Big Buck Bunny, Sunflower Version" at 4000x4500 seems to be OK here onthis computer -- may be 'cut back'/throttled by the video card (2GB?) and or monitor. KM> I've seen the oversized kind, tho... and I have one of the 3rd KM> party radiator doodads. Got that with a used vidcard that was DOA KM> (asked for and got half refund on that one, cuz I'd really wanted KM> the radiator) and have a notion it might be useful for something KM> other than vidcard. Heating your place?! > > KM> Hackintosh, if I get around to Catalina will need ALL of it. > > KM> (14GB just to admire its navel.) > > It's not idling, it's pontificating! I was surprised both of > KM> LOL! That sounds right. > KM> And I found a board I could transplant the Giant Server to (same > KM> CPUs and RAM and it has onboard SAS) that is functionally > KM> identical to the innards in a Mac Pro... > So you going to post to Instructibles.com "How I Built My Own Mac Pro"?! KM> That's what this site is for KM> https://www.tonymacx86.com/ Hmm: someone else thinks like you do?! KM> One of the Dells is already a Hackintosh, albeit an older KM> version, cuz it's whatever-I-had-ready-to-hand. Everything worked KM> out of the box except the NIC, but I didn't bother installing KM> kexts (drivers), so... soon discovered that while 8gb was okay, KM> it's a lot happier with 24gb. Geesh... this is a ten year old KM> version.... New isn't always better. I have used USB NICs temporarily -- I thnik the last time was when trying to figure out what was wrong before finding out the one RAM stick was bad. > Yes, I also try to futureproof -- have been burned a few times: need > some 5¬" floppies? As far as the thumbdrive capacity, it seems 16 GB is KM> Whoops! No thanks, I still have plenty! So I suppose you don't need any 3«'s either! > more than enough for what I do. Of course I'm not running a business. KM> I liked how Techhole (youtube) described what he was doing so KM> well that I pilfered it for my Borg listing: KM> "I'm not a production environment, I'm a basement." Not distracted by the corporate cubicles! > KM> Silly VM tricks: PCLOS will not speak consistently to the Windows > KM> network. However, XP in a VM works fine with the network. So when > KM> I need to move files, I fire up the XP VM and use it to copy > KM> stuff across the network. Very silly, but works without causing > KM> baldness. > I've noticed Copy & Paste doesn't work consistently across the VM either > -- like earlier when I wanted to look at your lock thumbdrive link. KM> Yeah, run into that too. Sometimes the setting doesn't stick. Or KM> you forget to set it (default in VBox is Off). Here seems to be more the settings don't stick, or maybe more don't insert themselves as it's the same VM, just sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, then magically starts working on a reboot. Just grumble and use a file in the shared directory to copy things over. > Usually easier and faster to use the Linux Firefox than the VM Windows' > Firefox but this time nothing would copy over. For some reason even had > a bit of a problem copying from XP's editor to XP Firefox (had to put > the three lines back to one). KM> Kinda irritating when you know it SHOULD work... Uh-huh! And worked the other day before the reboot! I half-think there are a few things where faster isn't better: the faster speed doesn't allow time for a function to load if another function takes a split-second longer than normal. Maybe the HDD needed an extra rotation because something else was being checked while trying to load this other parameter..... > As for networking, here I haven't needed to have a remote computer look > at VM XP but do need to have the local machine 'chat' with the virtual > one so created a 'rabbit hole': VM XP has a networked drive which > connects to a shared folder of the Linux machine. KM> My XP VM has no problem seeing the mandated host drive, so... Nor mine -- maybe I misphrased something. > > want it for trial/testing out ==> for example eventually will move the > > X10 home automation (primarily turning on/off lighting) from XP to > KM> Being a troglodyte, I still use my finger on the switch. I > KM> remember when you installed the X10 -- I got one of the freebies > KM> they were handing out at the time, but never used it. > "Someone around here" used to have all sorts of timers and extension > cords to turn lights on and off automatically. Nice, but the cords > looked messy; main problem was the darn twice-a-year time change plus KM> Did any of yours throw up on Feb.29th? had one decide it was some KM> random number of hours earlier, on the day before. And did so KM> somewhere in the middle of the day, so it wasn't even at KM> midnight. Not that I noticed: all the lights worked normally. Interface is the USB one (vs. the serial one - forgot the numbers right now). > the power would fail somewhat frequently because of the birds and > squirrels being curious about the pole transformer in the back yard. > (We're in a residential neighbourhood with lots of trees.) Reset the > time on the timers without battery backup.... KM> Ooops. One of the reasons why most of the computers are on UPS (a couple of the RPi's are not) as is some lighting, plus a few of the plug-in battery- powered emergency lights: it gets dark when the power goes out at night! > > .. And as the cream sauce said to the asparagus -- Happy Hollandaise! > KM> That's my tagline! > Spread the words! :) KM> Where's the butter knife?? Unless it's frozen solid I find a metal one works better! > .. Bad love lines: You set my heart aflame - you give me heartburn. KM> Definitely something lost in translation. A while back I was doing an English to either German or Hungarian letter to go with a card. The original English was right but the 'retranslate' (check German/Hungarian back to English) and rather than something like "it's hot here" the machine translate said something like "he was roasted in the oven"!! ¯ ® ¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ® ¯ @Q.COM ® ¯ ® .... "I'm living beyond my means, but I can afford it." -- Sam Goldwyn. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .