Subj : Re: Graphics driver quest To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Sat Sep 20 2025 21:25:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > > That explains that big 'BOOM!' I just heard! > KM> Nope, that was me taking a header onto the carpet this morning. > KM> (Hooked a toe on something in the dark. Gonna have a shiner.) > > Ouch! I did something like that years ago but not nearly as > catastrophic: my first apartment, shag carpeting; somehow the heel of my > shoe caught - sprained ankle. The shiner did not materialize, so I won't look at beat-up as I feel. > > So as usual my issues are backwards from the norm! > KM> Nah, I've seen this before. Very old Windows programs often > KM> assumed a very low resolution, and provided their own window > KM> decorations, so on a newer screen they looked awful (all fuzzy > KM> and dithered). Basically the same problem in a different suit. > > I don't recall having anything like that when I was running Windows as > the primary OS, but then I was also using a CRT. ...Probably same > refresh rate, just lower resolution and slower response. I liked Rockford for business cards. Rockford hies from Win3.0 and is a 16bit program, with low-resolution graphics. It looked llike crap on XP (the last OS that Rockford could run on). If you didn't know the program's history, it wasn't obvious that the dithering was not something wrong with your monitor. https://archive.org/details/ROCKFORD30 > KM> It's become a religious debate right up there with SysV init vs > KM> systemd. I don't care one way or the other so long as it works > KM> (tho systemd's binary logfiles are stupid). But once Fedora and > KM> Ubuntu (and later, Debian) adopted Wayland and systemd, it was > KM> all over except for the screaming from minor distros no one ever > KM> heard of. Almost everyone is downstream from one of those, and > KM> it's too much work to maintain two branches. > > Right. LIS other places, I sort of go with the flow -- well, OS-wise. > I'm going to presume the people who programme all this stuff so I can > use it sort of know what they're doing. Sure, they'll make mistakes. One HOPES they know what they're doing... there are days I have doubts. > As for systemd, I think the error log portion I occasionally use is in > journalctl. To me that is not overly user-friendly as is a condensed > (ZIP style?) and so not directly accessible. I am getting used to the > command stucture -- part of the 'getting used to' is I don't need to use > the log that often (which is good!) so forget and have to look up. I haven't been arsed to look at the logs in Fedora (systemd) but if they're just zipfiles that would be fine, zips are almost universally readable. If they're some other compression or encryption or are just the flags saved that have to be parsed into the log template when you read them, that is not fine at all, what happens when you can't boot the system? > > > > KM> There exists the new fork of X11, XLibre, but its dev is, shall > > KM> we say, a bit difficult, is not known for quality code, and most > > KM> distros refuse to offer it mostly because the dev refused to go > > KM> along with their wokeness. FOSS right now is flaming overloaded > > KM> with woke crazies (a natural side effect of proliferating "Codes > > KM> of Conduct") , and lately they've all come out of the woodwork. > > KM> (Don't believe me? Check out the Lunduke Journal on Youtube.) > > I'm half-thinking the XLibre code might not be all that great because > > the good X11 developers went to Wayland, leaving the not-so-great > > developers. ...We all had to learn, but I'm thinking the new/younger > KM> Leaving exactly ONE developer (not actually part of the X11 > KM> team), who'd been submitting numerous patches for years but none > KM> of them were merged. Whether it was poor code or bad attitude > KM> (or, reportedly, both) is open to debate, but bottom line is the > KM> maintainers just weren't interested in going back to X11 (which > KM> had been a dead end for about 10 years already), let alone > KM> testing someone else's code, and the merges never happened.. > > So one guy trying to do the work of a group. ...If I were him (or her) I > don't think I would have bothered after a year. No, the group had moved on and the one guy kept pestering them with iffy patches for software that was essentially retired. He actually accelerated the demise of X11 when he forked it and made a stink about none of his patching being merged -- in response a whole bunch of distros nuked X11 out of their future. Fork alone, no one would have cared. Fork and be a jerk... well. > KM> Then the ONE dev forked it, and made enough of a stir that the > KM> old devs said enough of this crap and nuked the repository. But > KM> that's why now there's XLibre for anyone who still needs X11, > KM> with at least some nod toward being maintained. > > Some of the old utilities will need X11 -- even some not-so-old ones. > In that situation I'd use a dedicated machine and some how transfer the > data or find something live VirtualBox to run the old OS in. Yeah, that's the easiest. Dedicated box if you have it, Virtual Box if you don't. > KM> I expect eventually the handful of distros still using X11 will > KM> slide over to XLibre, just because there is nowhere else to go if > KM> they can't or won't use Wayland (and same for systemd). > > KM> But it's kinda painting themselves into a dead end. When the > KM> whole ecosystem goes that way, you either go along or become > KM> niche and eventually unmaintainable. > > Right: either have to keep up or go extinct, unless one of those super- > rare stand-alone niche critters. That's where it's going to be, yeah. There's a discussion going on over at Lunduke's forum about this... lot of people are enough tired of the woke drama (which has utterly infested most of FOSS) to want to just pack up and do their own thing, but how practical is that? Not very. You wind up niche and who maintains it?? > > > X11-utilities -- give one last hug. ...I'd guess a way to run X11 will > > > be created, similar to the concept of WINE. ..."BEER"? Barry's Eyeball > > > Emulator Rewinder?? > > KM> Xwayland. > > They stole my idea! > KM> And your beer!! > > They can have my beer, it's my BEER I want! I did not know there was case-sensitive beer. Maybe it happens when you upgrade from a sixpack. > > KM> Yeah, probably a pointless exercise. Might go away with the next > > KM> update, or maybe you should screencap and bug report it? > > Almost too much work when I don't need the faster refresh. And > KM> And if it's the old-toolkit problem, no one is going to fix it > KM> anyway, or the toollkit would already be updated. > > Yup -- not really worth the effort. I didn't see any difference between > 60 and 75 Hz, though perhaps playing a game I may have, and I'm not a > game played other than Solitaire and Mahjongg for a quick break. (How > fast can I move those tiles?!) Doesn't really affect anything that isn't either video editing or higher-end gaming. Otherwise it's just ... how does this monitor look best? And they probably last longer at a lower refresh rate anyway. > > > > troubleshooting could be expensive: the second monitor (here on the > > wall) is identified as Monitor #1), is either DP or DVI and only goes up > > to 60 Hz. And my CPU is integrated to no video daughtercard. ...I've > KM> > KM> Do you mean you have integrated graphics? > > Yes: Ah, I did parse it correctly. > barry@Cougar:~$ inxi -G > Graphics: > Device-1: Intel AlderLake-S GT1 driver: i915 v: kernel > Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 driver: X: loaded: > modesetting > unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915 resolution: 1: 1920x1080~60Hz > 2: 1920x1080~60Hz > OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel UHD Graphics 770 (ADL-S GT1) > v: 4.6 Mesa 23.2.1-1ubuntu3.1~22.04.3 > > Why is there 'x11 server' up there?? ... I was gonna ask... > barry@Cougar:~$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE > x11 > > Thats's why! Now you've confused the poor thing. > Ummm, I'm going to leave that alone because this is my main system and > there's too much of a probability doing a quick change to Wayland is > going to break something, and it's not going to be repaired with Duct > Tape. Oh, you might have selected an X11 session at login. Not going to have a choice soon, tho.. Ubuntu is dropping X11 entirely as of the next release. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2025/06/ubuntu-25-10-dropping-xorg-support > > got almost a half-dozen variables right there! > KM> And inmates running the asylum! > KM> http://www.the-sandpit.com/inmates2.gif > > They just need another brick in the wall! I think they threw them all at someone already. > I have seen "for parts only" on some eBay items. In some cases makes Usually someone trying to sell outright junk. > sense: my old monitor (we back on that again?!) worked fine except for > (probably) the backlight(s). Getting the backlight(s) probably isn't too > difficult, opening the case - probably relatively simple. Replacing the > backlight(s) -- now we're getting into potential issues! Closing the > case back up -- there's the issue!! Oh, tiny screws and sticky things. Are we up to such fine surgery? > .. Wondered why music coming from printer. Apparently paper was jamming. Like this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7rX4LPtKw þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .