Subj : Graphics driver quest To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Fri Sep 19 2025 08:17:00 Hi Ky! > > > (I know: overquoting!) > > KM> That can be fixed! > > KM> *RRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP* -- sound of rampaging delete key > > Where'd the message go?! > KM> Into the aether, that infinite garbage dump for deleted > KM> characters! > That explains that big 'BOOM!' I just heard! KM> Nope, that was me taking a header onto the carpet this morning. KM> (Hooked a toe on something in the dark. Gonna have a shiner.) Ouch! I did something like that years ago but not nearly as catastrophic: my first apartment, shag carpeting; somehow the heel of my shoe caught - sprained ankle. > KM> When it's outdated toolkit, it's likely to affect just one app, > KM> or parts of apps. > Makes sense. LIS, at first look was just the 'overlay' Terminal/command > line of this Virtual Machine and anything else putting something with > Terminal on top of the main OS's screen. The main OS's Terminal was > unaffected. KM> Which says right there it's not your hardware. At the time I half-figured was not hardware, though possibly hardware- related because I had just replaced one of the monitors. So still more pointing to some sort of software issue. > KM> Now, if it's an OpenGL problem, then you might see goofs in games > KM> or higher-end graphics editors. > So as usual my issues are backwards from the norm! KM> Nah, I've seen this before. Very old Windows programs often KM> assumed a very low resolution, and provided their own window KM> decorations, so on a newer screen they looked awful (all fuzzy KM> and dithered). Basically the same problem in a different suit. I don't recall having anything like that when I was running Windows as the primary OS, but then I was also using a CRT. ...Probably same refresh rate, just lower resolution and slower response. > KM> Yeah, that's where it's at now. X11 had been essentially > KM> abandoned for over a decade, and the underpinnings were an ugly > KM> mess, being designed for the era of dumb terminals, and at best > KM> shimmed and jury-rigged for modern OSs. All the X11 devs went off > KM> to Wayland a long time ago (it's the same people, for the most > KM> part). > I never really paid attention to who was writing - no need to. LIS, my KM> The real story behind Wayland and X | linux.conf.au 2013 I'll take a look at it later. > decision was more based on future 'ease': going to be easier to "go with > the flow" and me to use Wayland than constantly set things back to X11" > eventually nothing new would be using X11 and I'd have to switch to it > anyway. As for the old applications I'm using using X11, either they > stick to the dedicated machines or the application will be updated or > I'll find a new application. ...My general line of thinking for me, not > necesarily the right thing for anyone else. KM> Yeah, somewhere upward of 90% of the linux world has switched KM> over to Wayland. Except for a few specialty uses that haven't yet KM> recompiled to work on Wayland, X11 is dead. And frankly KM> considering the mess X11 is internally -- just as well. It works, KM> but it's a pile of shims upon shims, and there's no future in it KM> for newer hardware. I had read where it was a patchwork and barely working, so sort of make sense to start from scratch with a replacement. Plus things evolve (barely tangential example): back then we didn't know how to make crystals glow so we used metal strings. Now it's LEDs and incandescents are being phased out. KM> It's become a religious debate right up there with SysV init vs KM> systemd. I don't care one way or the other so long as it works KM> (tho systemd's binary logfiles are stupid). But once Fedora and KM> Ubuntu (and later, Debian) adopted Wayland and systemd, it was KM> all over except for the screaming from minor distros no one ever KM> heard of. Almost everyone is downstream from one of those, and KM> it's too much work to maintain two branches. Right. LIS other places, I sort of go with the flow -- well, OS-wise. I'm going to presume the people who programme all this stuff so I can use it sort of know what they're doing. Sure, they'll make mistakes. As for systemd, I think the error log portion I occasionally use is in journalctl. To me that is not overly user-friendly as is a condensed (ZIP style?) and so not directly accessible. I am getting used to the command stucture -- part of the 'getting used to' is I don't need to use the log that often (which is good!) so forget and have to look up. > KM> There exists the new fork of X11, XLibre, but its dev is, shall > KM> we say, a bit difficult, is not known for quality code, and most > KM> distros refuse to offer it mostly because the dev refused to go > KM> along with their wokeness. FOSS right now is flaming overloaded > KM> with woke crazies (a natural side effect of proliferating "Codes > KM> of Conduct") , and lately they've all come out of the woodwork. > KM> (Don't believe me? Check out the Lunduke Journal on Youtube.) > I'm half-thinking the XLibre code might not be all that great because > the good X11 developers went to Wayland, leaving the not-so-great > developers. ...We all had to learn, but I'm thinking the new/younger KM> Leaving exactly ONE developer (not actually part of the X11 KM> team), who'd been submitting numerous patches for years but none KM> of them were merged. Whether it was poor code or bad attitude KM> (or, reportedly, both) is open to debate, but bottom line is the KM> maintainers just weren't interested in going back to X11 (which KM> had been a dead end for about 10 years already), let alone KM> testing someone else's code, and the merges never happened.. So one guy trying to do the work of a group. ...If I were him (or her) I don't think I would have bothered after a year. KM> Then the ONE dev forked it, and made enough of a stir that the KM> old devs said enough of this crap and nuked the repository. But KM> that's why now there's XLibre for anyone who still needs X11, KM> with at least some nod toward being maintained. Some of the old utilities will need X11 -- even some not-so-old ones. In that situation I'd use a dedicated machine and some how transfer the data or find something live VirtualBox to run the old OS in. Of course get into the Big Stuff and the simple stuff I've thought of and sometimes do here because a lot more complicated! KM> I expect eventually the handful of distros still using X11 will KM> slide over to XLibre, just because there is nowhere else to go if KM> they can't or won't use Wayland (and same for systemd). KM> But it's kinda painting themselves into a dead end. When the KM> whole ecosystem goes that way, you either go along or become KM> niche and eventually unmaintainable. Right: either have to keep up or go extinct, unless one of those super- rare stand-alone niche critters. > > X11-utilities -- give one last hug. ...I'd guess a way to run X11 will > > be created, similar to the concept of WINE. ..."BEER"? Barry's Eyeball > > Emulator Rewinder?? > KM> Xwayland. > They stole my idea! KM> And your beer!! They can have my beer, it's my BEER I want! > KM> Yeah, probably a pointless exercise. Might go away with the next > KM> update, or maybe you should screencap and bug report it? > Almost too much work when I don't need the faster refresh. And KM> And if it's the old-toolkit problem, no one is going to fix it KM> anyway, or the toollkit would already be updated. Yup -- not really worth the effort. I didn't see any difference between 60 and 75 Hz, though perhaps playing a game I may have, and I'm not a game played other than Solitaire and Mahjongg for a quick break. (How fast can I move those tiles?!) > troubleshooting could be expensive: the second monitor (here on the > wall) is identified as Monitor #1), is either DP or DVI and only goes up > to 60 Hz. And my CPU is integrated to no video daughtercard. ...I've KM> KM> Do you mean you have integrated graphics? Yes: barry@Cougar:~$ inxi -G Graphics: Device-1: Intel AlderLake-S GT1 driver: i915 v: kernel Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 driver: X: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915 resolution: 1: 1920x1080~60Hz 2: 1920x1080~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel UHD Graphics 770 (ADL-S GT1) v: 4.6 Mesa 23.2.1-1ubuntu3.1~22.04.3 Why is there 'x11 server' up there?? ... barry@Cougar:~$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE x11 Thats's why! Ummm, I'm going to leave that alone because this is my main system and there's too much of a probability doing a quick change to Wayland is going to break something, and it's not going to be repaired with Duct Tape. > got almost a half-dozen variables right there! KM> And inmates running the asylum! KM> http://www.the-sandpit.com/inmates2.gif They just need another brick in the wall! > Oh, here's a good one, tangential to your KVM. On my MythTV Backend and > NAS (two separate computers) I have little 4" monitors plugged in: yes, > teeny-tiny and barely see anything but the idea is for me to be able to > glance at the screens and see if there's a new block indicating an > update or something else. Remotely log in to see. > > Anyway, the monitors have composite video in so HDMI2AV adapter. One > adapter needed external power to work, the other didn't so didn't. > Worked fine until one day the monitor started to cycle-flicker > indicating video signal, no video signal. Test, swapping in the other > computer's HDMI2AV, which required power. Monitor works, so bad adapter > -- into the electorinc recycle. Had a spare HDMI2AV so put that in. > > Few days later dawned on me: waitaminute - the other two HDMI2AV needed > external power to work, maybe for some reason this one (the original) > 'suddenly' needs external power too?? I haven't changed anything > but.... Pull old unit, connect with external power: now magically > works and has so for weeks! KM> Ah. Marginal power, aging a bit and got to where it couldn't KM> QUITE power the device. This is pretty common with low-spec power KM> supplies. Kind of figured along those lines. Not sure why I wasn't using the power cable (was included) other than didn't need (at the time) so one less cable. KM> So might be your adapter is fine too, just wasn't getting enough KM> juice. Yup: I have a note I swapped the original adapter back in August 27th; suppose I can get rid of that note! > KM> Tho last night out of the blue Zombie came awake for no reason. > KM> WTF. > So what do you expect from a Zombie? (Probably getting ready for > Halloween!) KM> Exchange on a writers forum: KM> === KM> Someone who just discovered: KM> Cheap trick: if you can put "by zombies" after the verb, it's KM> passive voice. KM> Someone else having a fit of perversity: KM> He wandered by zombies on his way to work. KM> She skated by zombies frozen in the lake. KM> Me: KM> The eBay version: I mean by zombies people who are for parts or KM> not working. KM> === I have seen "for parts only" on some eBay items. In some cases makes sense: my old monitor (we back on that again?!) worked fine except for (probably) the backlight(s). Getting the backlight(s) probably isn't too difficult, opening the case - probably relatively simple. Replacing the backlight(s) -- now we're getting into potential issues! Closing the case back up -- there's the issue!! > > .. The word 'nun' is just the letter "n" doing a cartwheel. > KM> This explains the Flying Nun. > There's an explanation for Sister Bertrille? (Think that was her name > -- I recall the show but not watching it. May have been doing homework > when it was on.) KM> Were we once young enough to do homework? :D I was! And it was on paper using a pen (or if math a pencil)! ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... Wondered why music coming from printer. Apparently paper was jamming. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .