Subj : Re: Graphics driver quest To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Tue Sep 16 2025 07:28:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > > (I know: overquoting!) > KM> That can be fixed! > KM> *RRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP* -- sound of rampaging delete key > > Where'd the message go?! Into the aether, that infinite garbage dump for deleted characters! > KM> My guess is that's the right track, wrong culprit. Not exactly > KM> oldschool but using an old version of the GTK toolkit (the > KM> programming framework that produces the window decorations and > KM> such that the user sees onscreen), which responded less > KM> gracefully than its neighbors. On Gnome desktop, it's all pretty > KM> much GTK apps by default. (KDE desktop, Qt apps by default.) > > Probably more accurate, especially after I 'found' the one arrow graphic > was also noisy. ..I wasn't intending to find the coding error but more > semi-playing to discover what was working and what was not -- sort of > training for future diagnostics. When it's outdated toolkit, it's likely to affect just one app, or parts of apps. > > *^ "Overlay" meaning using programmes like VirtualBox and Remmina to > > obtain another machine screen over my main one. > KM> Oh. Yeah, I don't know what you'd properly call that. But the > KM> making-it-happen would be before it got to the display server > KM> (what actually sends data to the screen). > > Probably right. Not disagreeing, but I could see where a 'coding error' > in the video driver could be the problem. ...I didn't check to see what > drivers or other software were updated with the detection of the new > monitor: I'm not that ambitious! When the driver or vidcard is messed up, it usually either botches the whole screen, or at best you might have a clear terminal but nothing else. It's not selective, like one arrow. Now, if it's an OpenGL problem, then you might see goofs in games or higher-end graphics editors. > > KM> And that may not be the same depending if you're using Wayland or > KM> X11. You can check in whatever Ubuntu uses to spit up such info > KM> (in KDE it's InfoCenter). > KM> https://news.itsfoss.com/ubuntu-25-10-wayland-only/ > > Wayland. Have switched it off to use X11 on some computers around here > because what they are running isn't happy with Wayland but on this > computer figured as that's the utility future versions of the OS will be > running then I need to get used to it. If something I need doesn't run > under Wayland then I either need to use a VM or the other machine. Yeah, that's where it's at now. X11 had been essentially abandoned for over a decade, and the underpinnings were an ugly mess, being designed for the era of dumb terminals, and at best shimmed and jury-rigged for modern OSs. All the X11 devs went off to Wayland a long time ago (it's the same people, for the most part). There exists the new fork of X11, XLibre, but its dev is, shall we say, a bit difficult, is not known for quality code, and most distros refuse to offer it mostly because the dev refused to go along with their wokeness. FOSS right now is flaming overloaded with woke crazies (a natural side effect of proliferating "Codes of Conduct") , and lately they've all come out of the woodwork. (Don't believe me? Check out the Lunduke Journal on Youtube.) > ..Well, the article is pretty much verifying what I thought: X11 out, > Wayland in. The bad part with that is some of our favourite utilities > will be no longer be able to be used with future OS updates, so back to > the usual: switch OS or stay with an old OS. Try installing Xwayland, if it's offered. It's specifically meant as a bridge for those old utilities that didn't recompile for Wayland. Notably screen recording utilities. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Wayland#Xwayland > > KM> Everything had to be recompiled for Wayland, and some programs > KM> still haven't been, and may misbehave in new and different ways, > KM> and different ways again if you have an NVidia graphics card. > > Right. In the past I have read comments where the author/maintainers of > certain utilies will not update to current just because of what boils > down to too much work. So great 32-bit utilities - bye-bye. :( Now Yeah. The problem is that there just aren't enough competent warm bodies to maintain both 32bit and 64bit versions of everything. For several years KDE had the Binary Factory doing that automagically (as well as MacOS and iOS versions, when they would compile) but that got shut down a couple years ago. I think it's over at GitLab now but it doesn't do the automatic attempted compile anymore. > X11-utilities -- give one last hug. ...I'd guess a way to run X11 will > be created, similar to the concept of WINE. ..."BEER"? Barry's Eyeball > Emulator Rewinder?? Xwayland. > KM> setup. I'm guessing the problem is actually that the affected > KM> apps use an older version of GTK (the toolkit most often used for > KM> Gnome apps). If it's an old GTK, it's probably introducing a > KM> scaling error. > > OK. ...Was thinking one thing I didn't do was reboot the system: may > have completed some sort of update/revision but at the time had a bunch > of projects on hold -- not going to be lost if reboot, just would take a > little bit of time to bring back. And other than the video noise I saw > no difference between running this monitor at 60 Hz and 75 Hz, so > potentially a lot of work for nothing. Yeah, probably a pointless exercise. Might go away with the next update, or maybe you should screencap and bug report it? > Here I have one monitor on the HDMI port and the other on DVI/DP -- > whichever is available on the computer. AFAIK one or the other won't > work with the VGA port. Since digital displaced analog, that's sometimes an issue. Also the VGA to DVI/etc adapters can be fussy. One might work and another that looks identical might not. KVMs sometimes don't have full support either, or go NO WAY when there's an adapter in the mix. Also, KVMs have their own resolution limits. > > One problem I have had with the video switches is they will sometimes > fail to detect the computer that has been plugged in ==> will no longer > see, so skips that input. I've also had it where the switch switches > inputs without a manual input, so "how come I'm typing but nothing is on > the screen??!!". Yeah. And what seems to be another side effect, wake from sleep became haphazard. It's a regular complaint from laptop owners. For a long time Fedora would not wake up, tho that got fixed a couple versions back. Win11 on Zombie needs the power button pressed to wake it up, it will not wake from mouse or keyboard input (sometimes there's a setting for wake-on-USB, but not with Zombie, far as Win11 is concerned). And so on. Tho last night out of the blue Zombie came awake for no reason. WTF. > > part of the Sanders Associates 720; the text character was written out > > sort of like cursive as one continous line. Think how a neon sign has > > its glass tube bent to create the letters. (Usual method is multiple > > straight traces to create the letter.) > KM> Woah, that is cool. Not very practical, but cool. > > I'm not sure why they did it that way, especially when the turn-on-and- > off-the-raster had been around for ages, plus I would think the detail > in positioning the beam on the screen would be immensely increased. You'd think. https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Sanders_Associates_720 https://manx-docs.org/details.php/105,21492 https://bitsavers.org/pdf/sandersAssociates/Sanders_720_Technical_Description_Mar67.pdf Well, that didn't tell me anything. But the roots of those sites have sure recycled a lot of those deleted bits! > .. The word 'nun' is just the letter "n" doing a cartwheel. This explains the Flying Nun. þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .