Subj : GIMP Up To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Tue Sep 09 2025 08:16:00 Hi Ky! > > KM> there are still functions with no x64 replacement, and as someone > > KM> pointed out, every time you drop support for the older stuff, you > > KM> lose that subset of programming skills, and the "new" stuff > > KM> becomes that much buggier. > > Right: I have a few old applications that fall in that category. The > > good news I can run them on a VM but that has some other inconveniences. > KM> Yeah. I still miss LIST. 16bit DOS program, and no real > KM> replacement. (ZBList, which runs on x64 Windows, is not quite > KM> right.) KM> And I can't get ZBList to run usefully at all, so... ....So no longer used, ...Or I guess why every so often I read of business still using some software from the 1980's because they have to: there is no replacement. Or sometimes there is a replacement, just the previous or next step (input, output) cannot be updated and so everything needs to be held back. KM> LIST could view any file as raw or hex, and navigate around the KM> file tree. Extremely fast and useful. KM> Unfortunately x64 did it in. Now starting to sound more familiar! KM> Bueug died in 2009. Someone preserved all his shareware KM> (basically freeware) utils on Github. The source code for LIST KM> 6.0 was released into the public domain, but %$^Y&@!!%^ if I can KM> find my copy -- who knows, it might compile for an x64 system. KM> Tho it's in Assembly, so it might decompile and recompile KM> gracefully, if I knew what I was doing. :O Now you're getting into my method of 'programming': take a little knowledge of the basics, add a project wanting to get done, a bit of Google-fu for me, DuckDuckGo for you, and several days later - umm - still have a mess! > I sort of think of us consumers as a testing ground. Will the new > work in real-life conditions? KM> Hardware companies clearly use gamers as beta testers.... I think KM> I've ranted about that before. They're the ones who like to overclock, overheat, in general over do and so in general put the product through a series of stress tests. And partially why I based some of my past purchases on "if it's good enough for gamers good enough for me". Then became aware of those those little details! > As for business, scientific, and that level, if they don't have the > 'brains' support (motherboard, operating system, programme) for their > multi-thousand, multi-million gizmo their whole business could come to a > halt. And as you indicated near the top with LIST, it's not so easy to > substitute. KM> Exactly. "Why would anyone need to wander the raw filesystem?" KM> Have you ever tried it? No? Then you don't know the joy of KM> knowing exactly where and what every file is! I would presume sometimes the answer is to find why the wrong answer is generated. Thinking the old Pentium table where 2 + 2 = 5 type of thing. Or a digit in pi was mistyped. Or the missing hyphen in a Saturn V rocket's launch programme. KM> There's this thing, tho it's more like QuickViewPlus, and hasn't KM> been updated in about 9 years. KM> https://www.fileviewer.com/ KM> I haven't tried it. When I really need to look at a binary, KM> EditPadLite will do it, tho it can't conveniently roam the file KM> tree. Either he didn't "borrow" that routine from List or couldn't figure how to integrate it. > KM> I bought one a while back, to replace the one in Moonbase, which > KM> at age 22 finally succumbed to aging capacitors. For my $170 I > KM> expected to get a used board designed and built in 2005. I > KM> received a brand new, recently-made, $480 board! > That was a good deal!! KM> I thought so! came with a better CPU (core2duo) than expected, KM> too. Now if I'd get around to installing it in Moonbase.... Sounds like one of my But First Projects: I've got the parts waiting, but first this broke and needs to be repaired/replaced, but first I need to do..... > KM> I hate when things are stashed gods-know-where like that. It's > KM> why I use portable versions or portabilize everything I can. > I gave up and used link: ln -s. Sort of wanted to to it right as > something else to remember: it says it goes here but really goes there. > Used the symbolic link when I replaced the aging hard drive on my MythTV > Backend: was a lot easier to redirect everything than to re-find all the > options in the various configurations files. KM> Now my brain hurts. Using the symbolic link kept me from getting those headaches! > > Well I was thinking more of running the VM on a capable machine, not one > KM> As one hopes to do, but not all who boot have more brain than a > KM> rock.... > There are times I've appeared to be in that category, usually because of > interpreting something literally or not having the background to know > the implied step. KM> LOL. I was hopefully referring to hardware, but then I looked in KM> the mirror.... And thought "But first I need to clean that thing!" Actually it's kind of funny how much we take for granted other people know. "Dot" means period, not something like typing "dot com". A zero is not the letter 'O' even though they (used to) look alike. The CD drawer is not for holding coffee. > KM> Main problem is many VM images are HUGE (my Win81. image is > KM> 24GB). So the faster the read, the better the performance. Silver > KM> has an NVMe dedicated to swap, temp, browser cache, and VMs. All > KM> stuff that benefits from raw speed. > I'm not going to look around for the VM images here but as I recall they > were surprisingly large. ...Fast system, fast hard drive, would think > it wouldn't be sluggish -- the file is still HUGE. KM> Yeah, and they grow amazingly. Why just last year it was only 4 GB! ...Also the importance of having more than enough storage. My first computer (DEC Rainbow 100) used floppies -- and a 1 MB hard drive cost close to $1000 -- flipping floppies is fine! My first XT had a 20 MB hard drive -- "I'll never run out of space!" Nine months later (literally) I was able to get basically the twin XT but with a 40 MB hard drive. Netwroked the two -- now a whopping 60 MB!! I'll never-ever run out of space!! > > Just don't update the VM! ...I wonder if antique VMs are still able to > > run? > KM> VMs are just glorified disk images. If the virtual machine host > KM> can run the disk image, it will run. DOSBox is actually geared > KM> toward running in a VM. The main thing you run into is whether > KM> the VM image can run the Guest Additions (which necessarily > KM> matches the version of VirtualBox), without which you don't have > KM> interoperability with the host machine, proper mouse behavior, or > KM> full gamut of screen resolutions. > OK, yes. In one of my latest trials on a VM the USB feedthrough didn't > appear to work. The USB device was seen, turned on, detected by the VM > OS. I'm not sure if I had a config wrong someplace: I had enough KM> You probably don't have the Guest Additions installed into the KM> VM. You really gotta do that to make 'em properly useful. It KM> helps to give the VM a second optical drive for those times when KM> the VM spits out the Guest Additions when you eject the virtual KM> ISO. That way you can just leave it there, if need be. Guest Additions is installed but I don't think configured quite correctly. A while back fiddled and the USB settings weren't quite right. Need to fiddle -- but first! > information from that little test to continue on with my main project. > ..Do need to look as to why the incomplete detection but that VM will > be replaced in a little while. (It's mainly used for testing and so a > lot of junk.) KM> Ah. Better than testing on the real thing. Yes: in the past I've screwed up systems, more by the uninstall process than the install. Well, I guess installing did the initial screwing up, but not creating a problem until go to remove: attached to/replaced files and when told to remove there go those files! KM> One thing I do is clone the VM (VBox has a function for that) KM> before using it as a test bed, that way I don't have to rebuild KM> the original, just have VBox remove the clone when I'm done with KM> it. Right: do that as easier/quicker/faster. ...I think there is a problem in that instead of placing the files on the NVMe it olaces them on the hard drive and I have to manually move. It's been a while (year or two) so not sure if the master VM is on the hard drive or a setting in the default configuration is wrong. > KM> Technically, I could install VBox 6.something on the Win8.1 VM, > KM> then use it to run Win10 or 11 !!! However, only crazy people > KM> use VBox to peer into the future. More typically we use it to > KM> explore the past. > True: I have a couple of XP VMs -- one work and the other as a back up. > Several Ubuntu 22.04's on which I try out and test for stuff I may want > to install this main 22.04 machine. (SeaMonkey got tested on a VM -- > probably confused Lee as to why I was starting from scratch all the > time!) KM> Well, you coulda saved SM's profile to your host machine.... I could have except parts of the profile weren't what I wanted so easier to start from scratch. > KM> I've never gotten a Mac VM to run, not even one of the prebuilts > KM> floating around out there. > I've never had the need to try. KM> Neither do I, but still I have a rather elderly Hackintosh set up KM> that I never use, and keep meaning to upgrade but never have. I KM> mentioned its existence to my sister and she says, "Oh, I'm KM> sorry..." about as small a Mac fan as I am. The only possible KM> reason to have it is for a specialty ebook formatting program KM> that's Mac-only. I know people who bought Macs to run the durn KM> thing (the program itself is like $250, but Mac people are KM> apparently made of money). I asked the program owner if it would KM> run on a Hackintosh, he said he doesn't know why not. I haven't KM> tried it yet. Not sure I need anything to format ebooks that's KM> fancier than Sigil (free). Yes, sometimes one has an item just because needed for the occasional test. ...Or available for cheap and could be handy to have! > > VB gets updated every so often, which I would presume also updates the > > VM. Maybe not because of backwards compatabilty. Let's assume that > KM> No, the VM is its own thing. VirtualBox does not update the VM > KM> image. It may update whatever it uses as an init file to find the > KM> VM and get it running, I dunno. But not the VM itself. > OK - I think at the time I meant that but typed it backwards. The > Virtual Machine is like a video (.mov, .avi) which is unaltered but > needs something to play it (the VM). We can update the equipment for > playing (VirtualBox) but we don't change the VM ('video' in this > example.) KM> Right! You win a file of unknown type and origin. Yay! It's.... it's....... Well it looks impressive! > > (I need a coffee refill after that one!) > KM> My brain hurts, and you want to pour coffee on it??! > Say 'aaaahhh'! ...Friend in college constantly had coffee -- and this > is in the 70's so waaaaay before Stabucks and the like were around. His > wife was an RN and we joked she should hook up an IV to create a > non-stop drip! KM> LOL. Probably still has too much blood in his caffeine stream. Probably! Wonder if he grew little coffee percolators in his veins?! ¯ ® ¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ® ¯ ® .... I plan to borrow enough money to get completely out of debt. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .