Subj : Re: GIMP Up To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Mon Sep 08 2025 16:45:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > > KM> there are still functions with no x64 replacement, and as someone > > KM> pointed out, every time you drop support for the older stuff, you > > KM> lose that subset of programming skills, and the "new" stuff > > KM> becomes that much buggier. > > Right: I have a few old applications that fall in that category. The > > good news I can run them on a VM but that has some other inconveniences. > KM> Yeah. I still miss LIST. 16bit DOS program, and no real > KM> replacement. (ZBList, which runs on x64 Windows, is not quite > KM> right.) And I can't get ZBList to run usefully at all, so... > I'm getting a faint bell on LIST -- seems I also used it in the olde > dayz. There are a few others I like which no longer exist. On the > surface seems like they should run -- actually run faster because is on > a super-fast system compared to the what was available to the programme > back then, but then those pesky details show up! http://pgm.dwise1.net/misc/hexdump.html LIST could view any file as raw or hex, and navigate around the file tree. Extremely fast and useful. Unfortunately x64 did it in. Bueug died in 2009. Someone preserved all his shareware (basically freeware) utils on Github. The source code for LIST 6.0 was released into the public domain, but %$^Y&@!!%^ if I can find my copy -- who knows, it might compile for an x64 system. Tho it's in Assembly, so it might decompile and recompile gracefully, if I knew what I was doing. :O > I sort of think of us consumers as a testing ground. Will the new > work in real-life conditions? Hardware companies clearly use gamers as beta testers.... I think I've ranted about that before. > > As for business, scientific, and that level, if they don't have the > 'brains' support (motherboard, operating system, programme) for their > multi-thousand, multi-million gizmo their whole business could come to a > halt. And as you indicated near the top with LIST, it's not so easy to > substitute. Exactly. "Why would anyone need to wander the raw filesystem?" Have you ever tried it? No? Then you don't know the joy of knowing exactly where and what every file is! There's this thing, tho it's more like QuickViewPlus, and hasn't been updated in about 9 years. https://www.fileviewer.com/ I haven't tried it. When I really need to look at a binary, EditPadLite will do it, tho it can't conveniently roam the file tree. > KM> I bought one a while back, to replace the one in Moonbase, which > KM> at age 22 finally succumbed to aging capacitors. For my $170 I > KM> expected to get a used board designed and built in 2005. I > KM> received a brand new, recently-made, $480 board! > > That was a good deal!! I thought so! came with a better CPU (core2duo) than expected, too. Now if I'd get around to installing it in Moonbase.... > KM> I hate when things are stashed gods-know-where like that. It's > KM> why I use portable versions or portabilize everything I can. > > I gave up and used link: ln -s. Sort of wanted to to it right as > something else to remember: it says it goes here but really goes there. > Used the symbolic link when I replaced the aging hard drive on my MythTV > Backend: was a lot easier to redirect everything than to re-find all the > options in the various configurations files. Now my brain hurts. > > Well I was thinking more of running the VM on a capable machine, not one > KM> As one hopes to do, but not all who boot have more brain than a > KM> rock.... > > There are times I've appeared to be in that category, usually because of > interpreting something literally or not having the background to know > the implied step. LOL. I was hopefully referring to hardware, but then I looked in the mirror.... > KM> Main problem is many VM images are HUGE (my Win81. image is > KM> 24GB). So the faster the read, the better the performance. Silver > KM> has an NVMe dedicated to swap, temp, browser cache, and VMs. All > KM> stuff that benefits from raw speed. > > I'm not going to look around for the VM images here but as I recall they > were surprisingly large. ...Fast system, fast hard drive, would think > it wouldn't be sluggish -- the file is still HUGE. Yeah, and they grow amazingly. > > Just don't update the VM! ...I wonder if antique VMs are still able to > > run? > KM> VMs are just glorified disk images. If the virtual machine host > KM> can run the disk image, it will run. DOSBox is actually geared > KM> toward running in a VM. The main thing you run into is whether > KM> the VM image can run the Guest Additions (which necessarily > KM> matches the version of VirtualBox), without which you don't have > KM> interoperability with the host machine, proper mouse behavior, or > KM> full gamut of screen resolutions. > > OK, yes. In one of my latest trials on a VM the USB feedthrough didn't > appear to work. The USB device was seen, turned on, detected by the VM > OS. I'm not sure if I had a config wrong someplace: I had enough You probably don't have the Guest Additions installed into the VM. You really gotta do that to make 'em properly useful. It helps to give the VM a second optical drive for those times when the VM spits out the Guest Additions when you eject the virtual ISO. That way you can just leave it there, if need be. > information from that little test to continue on with my main project. > ..Do need to look as to why the incomplete detection but that VM will > be replaced in a little while. (It's mainly used for testing and so a > lot of junk.) Ah. Better than testing on the real thing. One thing I do is clone the VM (VBox has a function for that) before using it as a test bed, that way I don't have to rebuild the original, just have VBox remove the clone when I'm done with it. > KM> Technically, I could install VBox 6.something on the Win8.1 VM, > KM> then use it to run Win10 or 11 !!! However, only crazy people > KM> use VBox to peer into the future. More typically we use it to > KM> explore the past. > > True: I have a couple of XP VMs -- one work and the other as a back up. > Several Ubuntu 22.04's on which I try out and test for stuff I may want > to install this main 22.04 machine. (SeaMonkey got tested on a VM -- > probably confused Lee as to why I was starting from scratch all the > time!) Well, you coulda saved SM's profile to your host machine.... > KM> I've never gotten a Mac VM to run, not even one of the prebuilts > KM> floating around out there. > > I've never had the need to try. Neither do I, but still I have a rather elderly Hackintosh set up that I never use, and keep meaning to upgrade but never have. I mentioned its existence to my sister and she says, "Oh, I'm sorry..." about as small a Mac fan as I am. The only possible reason to have it is for a specialty ebook formatting program that's Mac-only. I know people who bought Macs to run the durn thing (the program itself is like $250, but Mac people are apparently made of money). I asked the program owner if it would run on a Hackintosh, he said he doesn't know why not. I haven't tried it yet. Not sure I need anything to format ebooks that's fancier than Sigil (free). > > > VB gets updated every so often, which I would presume also updates the > > VM. Maybe not because of backwards compatabilty. Let's assume that > KM> No, the VM is its own thing. VirtualBox does not update the VM > KM> image. It may update whatever it uses as an init file to find the > KM> VM and get it running, I dunno. But not the VM itself. > > OK - I think at the time I meant that but typed it backwards. The > Virtual Machine is like a video (.mov, .avi) which is unaltered but > needs something to play it (the VM). We can update the equipment for > playing (VirtualBox) but we don't change the VM ('video' in this > example.) Right! You win a file of unknown type and origin. > > (I need a coffee refill after that one!) > KM> My brain hurts, and you want to pour coffee on it??! > > Say 'aaaahhh'! ...Friend in college constantly had coffee -- and this > is in the 70's so waaaaay before Stabucks and the like were around. His > wife was an RN and we joked she should hook up an IV to create a > non-stop drip! LOL. Probably still has too much blood in his caffeine stream. þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com (454:1/1) .