Subj : Re: Remmina RDP To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Mon May 27 2024 14:46:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > KM> My experience is that LiveCD, Virtual Machine, and Real Hardware > KM> are not equivalent, in behavior or performance. Many a Linux > KM> LiveCD can see the other PCs on the network, but the same one > KM> INSTALLED cannot. > > My experiementation and recollections aren't sufficient to verify or > dispute. Here usually LiveCD is to do an installation and at that point > I don't care if that computer sees the other computers or not. Whereas one of my criteria for eventual hardware install is "Can you see the bloody network? At least sometimes??" > Virtual Machine.... know it sometimes has problems even transferring > data to the host machine even with that scratchpad function set. (Ever > do SneakerNet from one machine to the same physical machine?!) Yeah, have seen that. You can set it bidirectional all you want, all you get is "Huh??" Or ... "Host? What host??" tho that tends to go along with "Network? What network??" (can still see internet, usually...) Host is actually a network drive for the VM, and if it can't see the network... I have resorted to turning data into an ISO image, then loading that in the VM's optical drive and reading it with WinRAR. I guess that's sneakernet on the same machine! > > KM> But when I need to run something that the host OS doesn't like... > > KM> that's why I do VMs. > > You do a heck of a lot more experimenting than I do! > KM> A whole lot. > > But still easier and safer in the long run to experiment on a disposable > machine, even if doesn't always work the same. Quicker, yeah, especially when I was pawing through a hundred distros trying to find one I could love, never mind tolerate. Let's hear it for LiveISOs!! > > KM> Still preferably on real hardware, but am hunting for a VM that > KM> will work on Roadkill... my regular XP VM wouldn't even finish > KM> loading. > > First thing that comes to mind is insufficent space. ...Checking > mine..... 32-bit XP, Motherboard tab has 'Enable I/O APIC' tic'd. > Everything else seems relatively normal. Tried all manner of settings. XP can run in less than 100mb RAM (have regularly seen it use only 80mb with no external drivers installed, dunno why it does that only when dual booting with ReactOS, but it does), but apparently 512mb was too much for the host... I did get Win2K to make a nice VM and that runs fine, with no issues, tho the video component of the Guest Additions took a good 15 minutes to trawl through every video driver known to man.... > > KM> Did you see the crazy thing (I think it was) MJD did, with VMs > > KM> inside of VMs until it went all the way from Newest Windows to > > KM> Oldest Windows?? > > No but sounds like an interesting project! Wonder if considered going > > back to MS-DOS?! ..Wonder how much storage it takes? Presume on a > > NVMe just for a reasonable speed to load the most current version, then > > the next from that, and the next from that one.... > KM> LOL, you can do that, if you have enough RAM! > Can that be increased with Virtual RAM?! LOL, we may have to try that. I do have Win8.1 in a VM on XP64 (Win10 is better, but threw up all over the older VirtualBox) and that works fine... useful when I need to access my hosting, which no longer speaks to any XP FTP client, with the weird exception of commandline FTP, which works just fine. If you don't mind OMG tedium to do anything. > KM> LOL, the old Costco here (they've moved) had that issue. The > KM> parking lot was atop what used to be a dump. Flat when first > KM> paved, but a few decades later it was up hill and down dale in > KM> every direction, tho with the largest dent toward the middle. And > KM> I mean a serious slope, not just a little dip! > > Mine might have yours beat: I recall there were some sinkholes in the > stores (probably also the parking lot but I was too young to drive so > didn't pay attention) which were cordoned off. We didn't do it but I > remember Dad commented on running with the xcart would be like a > rollercoaster. Egads. I don't think ours had yet progressed to sinkholes.... but it had sunk about 10 feet in the middle. But tilted enough that it doesn't collect much water. > KM> Came across some idiot on Youtube "demonstrating how unsafe XP is > KM> online" .... first thing he does is DISABLE THE FIREWALL, and > KM> naturally it immediately collected every circulating network worm > KM> or virus. Uh, stupid, do that with ANY OS and it'll have the same > KM> thing happen!! > > Right! Take any current system, disable firewalls and security stuff, > and see how long it lasts! Linux is actually worse for this than Windows, because most of what come slithering past no firewall are network worms, and linux is MORE vulnerable to worms, and those don't require the OS to do anything. Whereas most Windows malware needs an application to infect, but generally doesn't have a good attack surface for network worms, having not been designed from the gitgo to be an internet server. I see most every linux distro has finally decided that average people do NOT need to run the Apache webserver full time (yes, they all did that, it was part of why in the early days performance was dismal) which greatly reduces the attack surface. Apache was the main ingress route for linux malware... and why does ANY desktop system need to run it?? > ...I'd be willing to bet my old DEC Rainbow > 100 running DOS 2.11 would be trashed quickly. ...Well, might take a > while: as I recall 4Kbps modem. LOL. There really wasn't much that could infect DOS over a modem, because DOS didn't execute anything by default. I can just barely see some sort of BIOS firmware worm managing it, but... why?? > KM> And then he says, "I don't think the firewall is much good" ... > KM> > > Once disabled it is no good! This is true. In fact, I can think of few programs that run better when they're not running... > > I've noticed Mozilla appears to do a full re-install instead of an update > > and I think LibreOffice does too. > KM> A lot of these monolithic programs do that. However, IIRC Ubuntu > KM> is now all containerized (or at least I heard it was going to > KM> be), which means you always replace the whole thing. > > Could be. I had thought they would stick with the compartmentalization > so if one thing breaks it doens't take down the whole thing. Oh, confuzzlement. I mean it replaces the whole contents of the container. The idea is good, but from what I hear it's not entirely ready for prime time. However, it does preclude Dependency Hell, which makes DLL Hell look like a raw beginner. > KM> Generally, but there's another advantage of Rolling... > KM> If I have to reinstall with every version upgrade, I won't use > KM> it. That simple. > > LIS in some other message I tend to do a full upgrade just because it > makes more sense: I usually have a new (updated) machine and so have > changed enough it makes more sense to discover all the hardware new than > to have to new OS look at the old list and make revisions from that. (I > know I'm using human-thinking method.) Plus over the decades with > MS-DOS, Windows and a few flavours of Linux I haven't had the greatest > luck in upgrading and having everything work properly the first day. In the old days, Windows did not upgrade gracefully, in part because it tried to preserve all your programs and settings, and those had DLL dependencies all over the place. They seem to have fixed that with the 8/10/11 chain; now you can't tell what's been upgraded and what was a scratch install. However, it no longer goes to special lengths to preserve anything, other than what's in your /User profile. Linux version upgrades used to be a mess, rarely worked right, and a clean install was indeed the only sane alternative. Some have figured out that regular users do not like doing a resinstall every six months, and have finally got it right. Fedora does a full version every six months. My Fedora install was originally v32. It has since been 34, 35, 36 (it did this one all by itself, shortly after I did the manual ugrade to 35... I didn't even do any updates, I just left it running and one morning there it was), 37, 38, 39, 40. You can skip two major versions, but if you need to upgrade by more than two, you have to do it stepwise, not all at once. Debian is still cranky about it, not sure how good Ubuntu is, being really Debian that's eaten too many donuts. þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .