Subj : USB lock up - poo! To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Wed Feb 23 2022 08:00:00 Hi Ky! > Right: some devices essentially don't wear out so an old is just as good > as brand new. Paying $100 for a new CPU vs. paying $50 for used -- > works for me! Paying $80 for a used CPU.... unless rare I'll spring the > extra $20. On eBay some of the used CPUs were going for more than sale > price of the new! And just to counter-balance, I did end up buying the KM> Yeah, there's a lot of scalping going on. That and probably not staying up with current pricing. > CPU via eBay: their eBay store shop's price was a dollar less than > buying from their website directly (which was the same as lowest price > on Amazon). So I saved a dollar!! KM> Congrats, O Thrifty Scot! He was very happy! > KM> It looks like insanity to we who expect things to work as-is out > KM> of the box without having to hunt up a bunch of pricey > KM> modifications. > Probably my basis for expecting the "AMD approved" CPU fan to properly > cool when I don't overclock, don't make the CPU do excessive woro, I > have proper air circulation, etc. KM> Yeah, comes as a nasty surprise when you expected Workee Now! Yup: it's not like one an just stick the old heatsink and fan on something else -- like a video card. Basically buying to throw out. > KM> Actually, IIRC it was immersed in oil with a cooling pump. And I > KM> was like.. for that much mess I can buy a faster CPU. But no > KM> challenge in that! > OK, that aspect I'd probably have a gaping mouth: electronics and > liquids generally don't mix, so seeing a computer taking a bath would > give a bit of that wow factor. KM> Mineral oil is thermally conductive but not electrically KM> conductive. Presumably that's what they used (it's what's inside KM> transformers). Right -- just seems counterintuitive. As for the transformers could be explained with the insulation on the wires. Wrong, but semi-logical. > i7 was slightly better -- very slightly -- but IMO not worth the extra > money (which I effectively spent on additional RAM). KM> RAM generally does more for performance, for sure. How much did KM> you get? 32 GB (2x16). The 16 GB pair (2x8). Price comparison to 4x8 was less expensive. KM> I like to max out RAM when I can. Tho it'll be a while before KM> Fireball gets maxed (can do 192GB; presently 64GB). Also, can't KM> claim I really have a good reason for that much. 32GB can get KM> squeezy with current browsers, but I don't do anything needing KM> more than 64GB. KM> Well, yet! That's part of my considerations: my current needs are (list) and looks like the future will require (list), so let's allow for that. As for the RAM, the usual memory utilities show I probably could get by with 8 GB (hmm: I'm using 7 currently - that's higher than normal) but apparently there is usage not shown: the space is available so is used, or loaded or something. > KM> cards that score 11,000. The rest of the hardware isn't up to > KM> that, and I can't justify a $1200 vidcard!!! > Nor can I!! I'll look to see what the high-end options offer: sometimes > learn about stuff I didn't know existed or forgot existed. (Two > monitors became handy somewhat recently -- up until then didn't really > care if a video card could handle more than one.) ...High resolution? KM> Yeah, when I find myself with a higher-resolution monitor that it KM> can't handle, then I'll consider a higher-end video card. EGA Rulz! > Well, I think some of the TVs here can handle 4K; monitors don't. SO > I'm not going to pay for 4K much less 8K capability, though maybe if a > little bit more I might on the theory if can do 4K it will have no > problems doing 1080. KM> 1080 is plenty for video. Can be a little inadequate for a KM> desktop. Though that depends on the eyeballs viewing that Desktop! > KM> Those aren't dust bunnies, they're dust buffaloes!! > Really! Apparently the lack of proper cooling was causing the CPU to > throttle some as after the surgical removal it seemed to run better. > Not to mention quieter: no dust buffaloes drumming on the fan blades! KM> Must have been really packed... maybe it was a buffalo jump. Their residue was fairly compacted! My theory is when the refurbishing was done they got missed: stuck in the dark hood, a dark colour -- refurbisher probably gave the unit a good general air blast plus the usual extra squirts into the hiding places. Nothing popped out - good to go! Here the dust family continued to happily add members, until that fateful day when bursting at the seams extended to the fan blades. (Me:) Who's that knocking in there? > KM> What vidcard does your New! Improved!! system get?? > None: it's integrated. Which is sort of funny as the 'old rule' was to KM> Ah, I forgot. Geeze, you'd think amongst the thousands of other things you memorize you'd memorize that! > avoid integrated graphics as stole from the system's memory. ...So to KM> How much video memory does it allow? I'm fine with integrated KM> graphics so long as it's some reasonable amount. (Unlike the Dell KM> quadcore that only allows 8MB, that's MB, as shared video RAM. KM> Uh, no.) Uh. let's see.... HDMI and DisplayPort "supports a maximum resolution of 4K 60Hz". ...Well, I'm not finding the number -- maybe depends on the CPU? > answer the question, whatever graphics provided by the i5-12600K via > the HDMI and DisplayPort. Might have to get a DP-to-DVI adapter for the > second monitor. Not sure what I have in the adapters box. Also KM> I just ordered several random ones for no reason other than KM> "don't have that one". They're good to have on hand before needing! Also why I sometimes order spares of stuff when I'm ordering the one I need. > KM> Bullet's vidcard has a replaceable fan (many are not) but those > KM> one-inch fans have a lifespan of about two minutes, and then they > KM> rattle madly or worse, stop turning but the motor is still > KM> running so get HOT. Finally removed it entirely and let the side > KM> case fan do the job, since it blows almost directly onto the > KM> vidcard. It seems no worse off. > Yes: I know at least one of the built-in fans for the video card around > here has stopped; most don't seem to be replaceable. Dumb! But then one > generally can't replace the fan in a PSU either. ( I do have a > PSU which was fixed by attaching a 120mm fan to the outside!) KM> Yeah, that's been my approach. It gets air, it doesn't matter KM> where the air comes from. At first having the card supply its own airflow made sense. Probably still does as a for-certain thing, but it seems those fans fail too consistently and unnoticed. (AFAICT pSensor doens't have an option for a GPU fan, but then maybe no option on the video card so didn't list.) So yes, blowing air from another source is just as good and probably easier to monitor. > And yes, I do wonder how much heat is created by the locked motor. Have > some old Muffin fans here (taken out of service in mainframes in the > early 70's) -- when they lock up they do get rather hot! IIRC rated 14 > W. KM> I can attest that at least with the very small fans, a locked KM> motor can make a whole lot of heat, way more than the CPU it's KM> supposed to cool. Heard of twice-baked potatoes? We now have twice baked CPU! ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... 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