Subj : USB lock up - poo! Fo To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Mon Feb 21 2022 11:21:00 Hi Ky! > > > Follow-up to the message I wrote this morning. > > KM> You followin' me? :D > > Out of morbid curiosity! > KM> I'll be sure to leave a trail of dead bodies so you get your > KM> money's worth. > We talking human or animal? KM> Bugs. Computer or insect?! > The FX-8320 here likes to run about ten degree warmer but that could be > due to a lot of other factors like rated 125 W for starters. Nowhere > near the thermal cut-off point. KM> Which is generally 80C for older CPUs, 100C for more-modern CPUs. Still seems 'funny' to have a CPU running up to the boiling point of water! ...Remember the old job about using the CD tray as a cup holder? Too bad can't run the CPU heat out and use to keep our coffee/tea warm! > There were some comments on one could buy an adapter to modify other > fans. I considered; didn't find so that took care of that option for > me. I was going to comprare the cost of the adapter to a new fan -- > both the direct-fit one and replacement of the fan I have here -- > currently spare but sort of have a destination use. KM> There are adapters for some sockets, yeah. Usually they do it by KM> having multiple screw holes in the mounting base (plate attached KM> to the back of the mainboard), so wherever your socket puts 'em, KM> they'll hit in the right spot. Yup: that's the way my tower fan attached: line up Part I, then line up Part 2 by fiddling with the bracket to fit into the mounting holes of Part 1. ...Actually not too bad, though I found it easier to see what was supposed to be done from a YouTube video as opposed to the printed instructions. > > carried yet, though that doesn't seem right. Also where I was reading > > the Noctura seemed to be highly rated and pretty much the only brand > > mentioned. No, I wasn't anywhere near the Noctura forum! > KM> They seem to be reasonably good, tho pricey. > Yes, I thought the pricing was bit high too. Other people have done the > research and probably know more how to read the results (me: oh yeah - > copper is a better conductor than this other). Plus I didn't see where > another brand was coming up -- certainly not the only ones making a fan > to fit? Well, do remember one but horizontal: seemed like it would > cover some of the RAM. KM> Lower dB and higher CFA... another consideration is whether it KM> can help cool the various other hot things, like mosfets and RAM. KM> I recall one that had a shroud that covered up some hot stuff and KM> that wasn't so good for the whole. Covering up hot stuff is generally a good idea, though if using that cooling fan to try to cool other stuff maybe not such a good idea. The shroud I had housing the dust buffalos apparently was there to help direct the hot air towards the rear panel. > KM> Busy is definitely warmer. Modern CPUs self-throttle when not > KM> busy, often down to half or a third their max speed. > Right -- actually kind of amazing they do: computer running itself. > Probably the way I keep files open is inefficient for the computer but > that's more efficient for me -- they're in progress. KM> Yeah, and now two types of core, one for performance, one for KM> slow. Yes: took me a while to figure that one out: "12 core (8p, 4e)". OK, eight an' four iz twelve, but the 'p' and 'e' didn't have a meaning for a while. Did finally see spelt out or otherwise defined: performance and efficiency. ...Then there are the ones that have a sharing... Good Grief!! > Works for me! I tend to construct a 'mega computer' for my primary use, > also one for the MythTV Backend, and as require to be bigger/badder/ > better will be dropped to the next level, the computer being replaced in > turn dropped a level, finally replacing the oldest.slowest computer > which generally stil gets to hang around because spares are good! KM> Yeah, mine get parts kicked downhill as available too. Then find KM> some job and take a long time to finally retire to the Closet. I finally did some sorting out of Parts I'll Probably Never Use. An AGP video card went in that box! Not sure if even worth attempting to list on eBay. Some time back had randomly checked prices of stuff in that box - almost more bother than worth, plus how long have those listings been up? > The computers being rolled down a level probably will get a bit of an > upgrade in the process: just adding a SSD for the OS partition really > speeds up otherwise slow computers! KM> Yeah, it does wonders for that. Six times the data flow. Definitely a faster boot; didn't notice any performance change as far as MythTV was concerned. The old/slow computers are pretty much designed to be used as MythTV Frontends only, though have the capability of a full Ubuntu system. Not going to be writing letters in the Ironing Room. Might look up something on the Web. Watch a show while doing laundry? Sure! > KM> You can always find Sunon fans for cheap, and they're extremely > KM> durable, but noisy. I've only seen one die, and it's probably 25 > KM> years old. And they move a lot of air (goes with being noisy). > I might have you beat! I have some Muffin fans removed from mainframes > in the mid-70's. Initially appears to be 45 years but I can't say has KM> Woah... used to have a couple of vintage fans like that, but got KM> lost in the Great Northward Migration. High power, noisy, but KM> dang could they move the air. Yup! Here now just used for pink noise while sleeping. > Was reading newer fans are quieter because bigger diameter so can rotate > slower to move the same amount of air. Also the blades aren't spaced > exactly evenly: being offset slightly reduces the air turbulance so it > quieter. KM> Yeah, that and using different blade shapes. I haven't paid that KM> much attention. I haven't either. More "bigger tends to be quieter". When purchasing is more "that's a decent price" along with brand, type of sleeve/bearing thing, and dB. > KM> So... need to find quieter. But not $20 each . > Probably not!! I've saved some money buy buying more (multi-packs). KM> Next time you see a good deal, let me know! Will do! ...Wanna share that 161 minimum order?! > Having an extra 120mm fan on hand is good: you're almost certainly going > to use it, plus have it now vs waiting to be shipped, plus possibly save > on shipping. KM> Yeah. I have some salvaged from power supplies, but would have to KM> rewire 'em. I've got some power supplies needing to have the replaced -- mostly the 80 mm fan but maybe a 120. Generally the failed PSUs have also been smaller output power so almost better to replace the power supply with one of higher wattage. > issues, improper air flow, etc. The good news is the open side is KM> I've found the airflow thing is mostly a myth. They talk a good KM> line but when temperature is much lower with MY airflow than with KM> THEIR airflow, and I see that over and over... well, I stopped KM> worrying about it. Pretty much good enough for me! I can sort of visualize having a contained box could cause better air flow as 'force' the air to come in form this point and be direct out that point. OTOH also seems there could be a quiet pool of air at the bottom. One computer with a tall tower case may or may not have had that problem: video card was at the bottom, PSU and fan at the top. I don't recall where the front panel venting was. Anyway, for some reason I started getting concerned about a potential lack of/reduction of air flow in the bottom, or at least for the video card and whatever other cards were down there. Had a fan with a broken mount, Velcroed it to the bottom of the case to blow up. (Was he kind of fan with intake from the side.) KM> I remember the top-end Dell someone gift me because persistent KM> overheating caused chronic crashing, and it was borderline even KM> with water cooling (which he didn't send with it, put it all back KM> to stock). And everyone was all OH NOES you can't mess with their KM> meticulously designed cooling, that would be bad! Erm, their KM> meticulous design is overheating at idle, how much harm could I KM> do?? KM> So I ditched their stupid shroud, replaced the thoroughly useless KM> fanless heatsink with a proper if generic heatsink-with-fan, KM> added an intake fan, and its CPU temperature dropped 40F degrees. KM> Yes, FORTY DEGREES. KM> And it never crashed again (at least not until the capacitors KM> failed). Take that designers! I'm sort of the opinion there are times when the college-degreed designers know more than I do, but I'm also of the opinion there are times when they're stuck because that's the way they learned it. Your fan substitution is on example. (And besides, someone has to invent or discover stuff -- may as well be me!) KM> Same with leaving the side panels off. Then you don't need to KM> worry about evacuating the hot air; it leaves all by itself. KM> Same reason I like to have a top vent, to let it escape. Heat rises! > against the cabinet, so doesn't show, plus no accidental finger-poken. > I did put a 80 mm fan at the bottom-center of the open side to help move > air around. KM> I'd leave the open side a fingerwidth away from the side of the KM> cabinet, to let more hot air escape. That's pretty much what I'm doing with "BE4" here (the 4th version of the MythTV Backend). Plus some of the spacing is because that's the width of the side panel cover I'm storing next to unit so it doesn't get lost. > KM> Yeah, I need to get some more of those magnetic fan-cover filters > KM> for the intake fans. Work great. > Back to the open side cover thing I was considering some sort of cover - > filter material maybe. Not sure magnetic would work as relatively > narrow metal strip to attach to. Was also considering removing the > center portion of the panel, replacing with what though as would need > to be 'pootched' out a half-inch or so. KM> Well, given it's where you can't stick your foot into it, I'd KM> just leave enough room for circulation and not worry about it. OK; probably was going to end up that way anyway. KM> Bullet ran with both sides off for years; only reason they're on KM> now is cuz it's not running due to Rearranging Of Hardware. KM> Bullet's southbridge likes to run at 220F, so the less between it KM> and the open air, the better. I might figure a way to blow air across it. Attach an old CPU fan (~40mm -- whatever the sizing is - going by memory) to an L-bracket attached to the drive bay case or some place sturdy/convenient. KM> Got a copper heatsink for that but so far have not quite figured KM> out how to make it fit... might need a different one. My fan idea might be easier than metalworking! ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... This message has been tested for morbidity by Undertakers Laboratory. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .