Subj : USB lock up - poo! To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Wed Dec 30 2020 13:31:00 Hi Ky! > KM> probably go back to its old job, which is about as static as it > KM> can be (second streamer during baseball season) and never needs > KM> USB anything. > Might be safer. Of course there is still that overall Southbridge > question: is it just the USB section having problems or all of the > Southbridge? And yes, that is sort of a question for me too: known KM> In the early stages, only USB. But later on... Double Vision KM> (AMD/Asus of ?2006 vintage) seems to have had basically the same KM> flaw... USB was crappy for a long time (would only do USB1 during KM> boot), but given a few more years for those caps to dry out, KM> guess what, it stopped being able to write to the HD. As I KM> discovered when I tried to install a new OS on the durn thing. It KM> is now retired to the cannibal pot. Mmmmmm - using the motherboard with the USB lockup issue as a NAS might not be such a good idea in the long term. Maybe just keep it for when a MythTV Frontend needs upgrading. ...Trying to think of some project I could use for experimenting..... > problem here with USB, so could the motherboard be used for a some other > function where it just handles data and essentially never touched? > Quite frankly I'm considerating it for network storage, though the USB- > caused lockups has me a bit nervous. KM> Once the USB problem starts, I don't think I would trust it for KM> mission-critical anything. Definitely not for storage you rely KM> on. Had thought that originally (so not as a NAS) but then figured ask: if just a problem with the USB section would have been no big deal. > KM> Tellya, tho... has sure shown that a 2.6GHz quadcore (Tarnish) > KM> outperforms a 3.2GHz Core2Duo (Cash). Latter gets clogged up > KM> about 10x as often. > There's probably a mathematical explanation somewhere but OTTOMH it > seems splitting the workload among four is better than two. The part of > figuring at which speed four cores is equivalent to two I have no idea. KM> Seems to be the case even with apps that don't really use more KM> than one core, or not very well. It is REALLY noticeable with KM> SeaMonkey. Yes: I have 'suspected' several apps have no clue how to run on multiple cores - just too slow (to start/load, do a process, etc.). Oh well, Since I haven't a clue how to even start writing something beyond script I'll be happy with waiting a second or two. > > KM> Oh, speaking therewhich, found a USB driver for DOS that works > KM> Ugh, will have to remind me another day. > Is today the day? I do have one or two PS/2 to USB adapters -- not the KM> No, this has nothing to do with that. Only for USB storage KM> devices, like flash drives. Plugging in a thumbdrive into the PS/2 adaptor wouldn't work: data and power lines up, but the data doens't go to the right place inside the computer. > same as the driver but at least allows me to use the old keyboards and > mice. (Some of the old computers required them to be detected on boot; > use the old ones to keep the computer happy -- just store them > behind/next too while using the wireless.) KM> My oldest PC in service BARELY has USB2, and it can use a USB KM> keyboard in DOS without any adapters to PS/2. However.... And I was thinking back here: a year or so back I had updated my MythTV system so while at it moved some computers ==> rotated out one which was underpowered, replaced with an (updated) existing computer.... Anyway, the old system had two or three computers with the 'hidden' wired mouse and keyboard; with the current system none have 'hidden' hardware. Know the computer from the kitchen went to the Ironing Room and it used to have a wired kybd/mse....... KM> Strange facts and useless information: if possible, use PS/2 with KM> your DOS machine. Seems MODE CON RATE=32 DELAY=1 to speed up the KM> keyboard does not work with USB keyboards!! My guess is the command link to convert the PS/2 instructions to what is used by the USB keyboard is missing, or maybe there is no equivalent instruction in a USB keyboard (already at 'fast'?). KM> And wireless USB keyboard does not work during boot if used via KM> KVM. Is the KVM Switch wired or electronic? If the old wired type I'm thinking should work but if electronic can see why it wouldn't work: the switch isn't sending the indentification data through/in time to the computer. Had a similar problem with the Raspberry Pi via an HDMI switch to a monitor. If RPi-sw-monitor when turning on the Pi the monitor wouldn't see the Pi. If the Pi was plugged in directly to the monitor then it would -- could even plug the Pi back into the switch and as long as thigns were powered up would continue to be seen. That issue seems to be more in the Pi than then elsewhere: during boot the Pi was asking "anything at HDMI?" and when didn't get a reply fast enough went to the composite output. Not sure how that trivia will help your wireless keyboard issue; maybe hit the 'reconnect' button on the keyboard? > I've been sort of shopping: collecting general information and prices, > mainly from the Newegg ads I get. Might not be the best prices but a > place to start: unlocked vs. locked, processor speeds -- know about the > number of cores but LIS above someplace that slower speed with more > cores is better than less cores at a higher speed thing. Plus this > computer has been behaving as long as I don't plus a USB device in; > building/working on stuff with just one eye wasn't that easy (no > distance from normal stereoscopic vision).... KM> Yeah, not so motivated when you know the workaround to avoid the KM> OOOPS! Yup! :) Not too much of a problem and so less urgency to fix/replace. > Good for him! As for not keep old stuff around, I can sort of see that > as the manufacturers, software sellers, etc., would like to sell new > stuff as that's the only way they make money. OTOH a lot of consumers > (businesses) can't use the new stuff because they have a programme which > won't work on the current OS (16-bit, etc.). Was reading where the KM> That's mostly industrial and certain businesses with weird old KM> software. But there's tons of industrial applications out there KM> still running on ancient hardware. Right. Have heard of payroll being run on antiquated hardware -- cheaper to pay for the old hardware than update the software. > KM> Yeah, sometimes a problem. Not so much with the newer Intel CPUs, > KM> tho. Basically if the board supports it, it should be fine. > "Should be"! That may have been one of the problems with the > current system: IIRC the 125W CPU was sort of at the very max of the > specification. Also board was sort of rated for the processor _family_ KM> That shouldn't be a problem. Either the BIOS supports the CPU and KM> it boots up, or it doesn't support the CPU and won't even power KM> on, or maybe it will downshift to a lower speed on the fly KM> (common when you've got the MHz or multiplier or voltage set KM> outside what it supports). And a lot of BIOSs actually support KM> near-miss CPUs. KM> Also, BIOS updates commonly upgrade CPU support quite KM> dramatically. This particular one (mine) I had read where there CPU and motherboard were later found out to be not 100% compatible yet the specs were not corrected. I don't recall the details but something like the first revision had problems and the second revision did not. Yes, "can't believe everything on the Internet" but in this instance what was said (listing of various issues) matched with my problems and downgrading the CPU to this board was the fix. And yes, I had done a BIOS upgrade before replacing the CPU. KM> Paladin has a P4 CPU that it "doesn't support" that works just KM> fine. And it's an Intel sample, not even a production CPU, and KM> it's never had a BIOS update either. Sometimes the magic works. If I had a bunch of boards and CPUs I might have tried a different combination. Since not, essentially minimized my loss by buying a new motherboard for the old CPU (became the new MythTV Backend) and a new CPU for the 'old' motherboard which had a little less 'oomph' but others had found to be compatible (they had the same issue with the original combination). > but not specific processor. And as you mentioned some time back AMD is > more into gaming and expecting the end-user to 'super-size' the cooling > fans, etc. KM> Yeah, that would be them. I would prefer having a decent heatsink/fan combination suitable for normal usage. Off hand I don't recall if I purchased as a CPU/cooler combination; if so that implies proper normal performance. Oh well. ....And with the new Intel-based system when I get it I will be using a heavy-duty heatsink/fan. > And back to Newegg's advertising, I haven't seen too many motherboards > in their daily advertisements but when they do it's the 'opposite' > brand: Intel CPU and AMD motherboard. KM> No matter what you have in mind, they want to sell you something KM> else! Whatever is profitable! ...Did see a refurbished MSI motherboard advertised last night. Interesting - until I read the reviews: some not cleaned very well -- thermal compound residue (I could accept that) and dust -- I could accept the dust too but sort of implying these boards were found in a corner some place. Also bent pins and other things making me a little scared of this particular offering. > KM> I'd grab the board first, as there's usually some flexibility in > KM> what CPUs it'll support, but a given CPU may have a very limited > KM> compatible boards list. And by the time you get there, that board > KM> may not be readily available anymore. That's kinda what happened > OK yes. I had been thinking motherboard then CPU all along, just I am > more familiar with what to look for in a motherboard and not so much a > CPU so sort of preparing to study CPU options. Sort of a crash course > on your $5 is fine, $20 is probably the sweet spot, and $200 isn't > really worth spending at the consumer/hobbyist level. KM> Unless you're into high-end gaming or crunching databases or the KM> like, whatever CPU comes along will be perfectly good. The $20 KM> CPU -- yeah, it's kind of a sweet spot, because it's plentiful KM> and not in demand by gamers, yet pretty much peak performance for KM> that price range. Right. My high-end gaming is Solitaire, though lately getting into Mahjongg. Database stuff is more like having the system find the file I need. My 'higher-end' need is more because I don't build a system all that often and know the system will slowly slow down. KM> The easy way to decide on a CPU for a given motherboard is to KM> first get the list of supported CPUs, then check specs for some KM> of the newer ones on passmark's benchmark site. It's not 100% but KM> it's pretty close to what I've observed when I've had a family of KM> CPUs to compare. KM> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/ KM> And then you can chart the performance specs (be sure to note KM> both single-threaded and multi-threaded results) vs price. OK, thanks - have heard of and visited sites with Passmark data; probably have been on CPUBenchmark.net, And LIS select the motherboard and then the CPU to go with it, which is easier than the other way around -- I had sort of been collecting information on the Newegg CPU offerings to get a starting point on what I wasn't overly familiar with: locked and unlocked, cores, threads. Then have clock speed and core number and threading options and ...... KM> For quicker compare, they also have an Everything At Once chart KM> for various categories of CPU, more or less organized by socket KM> and age. KM> http://twilightasylum.com/pc/cpus.htm Between the two sites I should be able to figure out something decent. KM> Westworld (scroll down a bit) makes a good example: it came with KM> the first-listed CPU which was pretty durn slow. It supports up KM> to Phenom X6, but that one is still pricey. And supports a bunch KM> more CPUs. Phenom x4 840 is not ideal but is common and cheap, KM> therefore was deemed good enough for what is not really a good KM> performing PC no matter what CPU it has. (40% slower than the KM> Intel CPU that is supposedly much slower.) I was willing to spend KM> $15 to upgrade it; I wasn't willing to spend $60 for the KM> next-faster, or somewhat more for the best it supports. Right: $15 isn't a wallet-scraping upgrade price whereas $60 isn't horrible but not displaying a significant increase in response not worth it. > KM> Onboard video is usually good enough nowadays (unless they did > KM> something stupid like skimp the shared RAM down to 8mb, like the > KM> older Dell did!) Won't hold up to modern games and maybe not to > KM> very high def video, but certainly good enough for ordinary use. > HD quality is fine for me: not using this system to watch shows but do > watch the occasional video. A motherboard with on-board video with > decent specs would not be excluded. KM> The nice thing about HAVING it is that when you're initially KM> setting up, you don't NEED to find a vidcard, and onboard video KM> is always adequately supported by whatever OS is handy. That's true! The BIOS will have been 'trained' as to what is there and should just work. > On that note I've got/had a few MythTV Frontend computers (primary > purpose to playback TV shows) and I don't think any with video cards > with fans have shown a problem when the fan died or otherwise > malfunctioned. OTOH the cards have had a decent heat sink and the > computer itself has an airflow in the cavity. Not saying the fan is > useless but for my needs doesn't seem to be a requirment. KM> I've had so many vidcard fans either go rattly or die that KM> fanless has become a requirement if I'm paying money for it. Fact KM> is those little fans are crap. And by the time you get up to a KM> card with big fans, it's way more $$$ than it's worth to me. I have mostly gone by spec and price for the video cards around here. AFAIK all of the TVs except the most recent one only do 1080 so no need to have a 4K-capable video card. Plus the TV stations only put out 1080 max anyway. What was funny was the new TV will do 4K. Plugged 'BrokenTab' into it (was the one with the broken connector for the CPU heatsink - did replace that a while back because the CPU fan needed replacing) -- the TV's HDMI input was recognized at the higher definition the video card adjusted tself to the higher resolution (probably 3840x2160): man was the Ubuntu Desktop display tiny!! > KM> That too. And not chintzy somewhere. Turns out the reason we only > KM> get a couple USB3 ports is because the USB3.x chip is about $40 > KM> per pair of ports (or at least was a year or so ago, when I heard > KM> about this), which is an awful large chunk of the cost against a > KM> $100 motherboard. > Ugh, yeah! So now having more USB 3.x ports which looks like a benefit > could mean they skimped elsewhere to balance costs. KM> By the time you have more USB3.x ports, the whole thing is KM> expensive enough that there's no point in cutting corners. Probbaly true -- not disputing, just not enough personal experience. I do use the number of USB ports, daughtercard slots, etc., as a guideline. > Here the overall number of USB 2.0 and 3.x ports isn't a big factor: > want at least three USB 2.0's: keyboard, mouse and third to a (powered) > hub. USB 3.x at least one as goes to a powered hub: the external > devices are too far away to plug in directly without extension cables. KM> Yep, that's about right. For some reason have problems when stringing together three of four 3-meter USB extensions! > This one is configured as 1920 x 1080 (16:9) @ 74.99 Hz, which is > probably restricted by the monitor as opposed to the video output > device, Downstairs have a MythTV Frontend with some card in it -- a > while back had to replace the TV as a part of the video failed. New > TV's HDMI input will do 4K and that's what the computer's video card > went to. Talk about a teeny-tiny display! Was full screen, just the > icons were 'microscopic'! (Forced to 1080 and all was good again.) KM> Yeah, when the OS doesn't know how to scale icons and text... Not sure that it couldn't, was easier to force the lower resolution. > > > .. Take the lemons and make lemonade! > > > Take the salmon and make salmonella! > > KM> Ain't biology wonderful? :D > > Yup! And seems no one remembers the old ad that had "Hey Sal! Sal > > Monella!". > KM> I certainly don't. > I wonder if it was a regional public health ad campaign? At the time I > was living in southern New Hampshire and heard it on a Boston station. > I'm not even sure if more than one station. KM> Or the fact that I've done long stretches with no TV! You don't know what you're missing! (Or should that be I don't know what I'm missing?!) > And now I'll tease your brain with "Wednesday is Prince Spaghetti Day": > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNX1QtyG9_8 KM> Now that I can positively say I've never seen. For one thing, we KM> didn't have Prince brand spaghetti out west of the Mississippi. KM> Creamettes for us! Yes, I'm on the western side of the Mississippi also -- just barely: (city) blocks, not even a mile. (Good news: live on a bluff so if Mississippi water starts lapping at my doorstep we're all in a heap of doo-doo!) AFAIK the Prince brand is New England. I think Creamette is a national brand -- think I remember seeing seeing ads when I lived out there but as was living with my parents didn't need to buy food. Pretty sure have seen the dark green box out here -- usually the Hy-Vee (grocery store chain) is cheaper so buy that. KM> Saw in the comments that the guy who played the little boy passed KM> away. Yes, I saw the article on his passing some time back. > KM> Side note: I desperately need a different form of Courier. Dark > KM> Courier doesn't grow nicely and gets all weird, like someone > KM> colored in all the 'windows' in the letters. Regular Courier > KM> isn't dark enough. SeaMonkey doesn't believe Bold exists. *sigh* > I've been using Thunderbird for e-mail and the default "Variable Width" > font. Hmm, maybe enlarge the default size to medium or a notch larger? > (With Thunderbird on the same configuration page as selection of the > font in Preferences.) KM> Nope, doesn't work. I can enlarge it, but it doesn't play nice. KM> Gets all blotchy. Still using that .41mm CRT huh? Font smoothing, maybe?? I tried Googling "Courier font enlarge gets blotchy" and nothign really looked worthwhile to check further. OK, took out the 'Courier' in the request and closer; maybe this has a hint? https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000557.htm > There is also a default colour option: on my "Write" screen immediately > to the right of the Font Selection is a small black square offset over a > small white square: one is foreground text colour and the other > background colour. Wonder if you have a dark gray selected instead of > black? KM> You're using the HTML editor, which I never do. Plaintext editor KM> uses your fixed-width font. I prefer Courier for that, but can't KM> seem to find one that's dark enough. Quit adding water to your inkjet cartridge! OK, that just reminded me of something: there is a way to add holes to the character to stretch the ink. Too many/too large a hole would make the font light because not enough ink being used. I don't know if the modification made for the printer would affect the looks on the screen. ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... How can I get snot out of corduroy? --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .