Subj : USB lock up - poo! To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Mon Dec 28 2020 09:33:00 Hi Ky! > KM> And guess what... remember I was a bit dubious about the future > KM> of Cash (Tarnish's twin, except for being made in Taiwan instead > KM> of China)... well, yesterday I plugged in the USB floppy drive, > KM> and... lordy, the solid lockup like you've never seen!! Took > KM> several restarts to get it to remember that it has other USB > KM> stuff. Well, I sure won't be using the USB floppy drive with it > KM> again! (At a guess, too much power draw...) > KM> USB floppy drive worked fine with Bullet. > Well, possibly Cash might be the recipient of a capacitor transplant. KM> Might be in its future, yeah... assuming it's still in use. But KM> when I FINALLY get Silver II completely in service, it'll KM> probably go back to its old job, which is about as static as it KM> can be (second streamer during baseball season) and never needs KM> USB anything. Might be safer. Of course there is still that overall Southbridge question: is it just the USB section having problems or all of the Southbridge? And yes, that is sort of a question for me too: known problem here with USB, so could the motherboard be used for a some other function where it just handles data and essentially never touched? Quite frankly I'm considerating it for network storage, though the USB- caused lockups has me a bit nervous. KM> Tellya, tho... has sure shown that a 2.6GHz quadcore (Tarnish) KM> outperforms a 3.2GHz Core2Duo (Cash). Latter gets clogged up KM> about 10x as often. There's probably a mathematical explanation somewhere but OTTOMH it seems splitting the workload among four is better than two. The part of figuring at which speed four cores is equivalent to two I have no idea. > KM> Oh, speaking therewhich, found a USB driver for DOS that works > KM> with flash drives (tho the USB keyboard doesn't work at the same > KM> time). Will have to find the URL again and post it over in > Yes, I'd be interested if nothing more than troubleshooting. Have > several PS/2 keyboards and mice -- of course helps if the motherboard > has the ports! KM> Ugh, will have to remind me another day. Is today the day? I do have one or two PS/2 to USB adapters -- not the same as the driver but at least allows me to use the old keyboards and mice. (Some of the old computers required them to be detected on boot; use the old ones to keep the computer happy -- just store them behind/next too while using the wireless.) > KM> DOSTips. Not only that, but DOS7 works with a 128GB exFAT drive. > KM> Would not have expected DOS to be able to read exFAT. (DOS6 is > KM> limited to 2GB drives. I prefer DOS7 so don't care.) > I'd probably be using an older version of DOS just because what I have > here, LIS, at this point troubleshooting, though eventually just for > old fun..... KM> DOS7 has enough perks to be well worth the switch; just peel it KM> out of Win98, or off any of numerous bootdisk sites. Large drives KM> and FAT32 support are definitely a never-going-back for me. Some things are fun just because we used to do them that way. > > I've been half-looking at Intel motherboards and CPUs, mainly the Newegg > KM> You mean motherboards and Intel CPUs, since Intel not only no > KM> longer makes motherboards, they removed all support for their old > KM> ones, much to everyone's annoyance. (Bullet has an old Intel > KM> mainboard.) > Darn shortcut English I use! "Intel motherboard" didn't mean a > motherboard manufactured by Intel but rather a motherboard using an > Intel CPU. As for the removal of support - bad Intel! KM> Haha okay :D I've been sort of shopping: collecting general information and prices, mainly from the Newegg ads I get. Might not be the best prices but a place to start: unlocked vs. locked, processor speeds -- know about the number of cores but LIS above someplace that slower speed with more cores is better than less cores at a higher speed thing. Plus this computer has been behaving as long as I don't plus a USB device in; building/working on stuff with just one eye wasn't that easy (no distance from normal stereoscopic vision).... > They probably cited storage or some other relatively flimsy reasoning. > And as for the removal of support, why I try to grab as much information > as possible, though usually I'm grabbing manuals and that type of > information as I don't use Windows so don't need those drivers, etc. > (OTOH there are some Linux drivers not from the usual Linux sources.) KM> Some guy was pulling the support files and watching them KM> disappear right before his eyes... so what he could get is on KM> archive.org now. 340GB. Good for him! As for not keep old stuff around, I can sort of see that as the manufacturers, software sellers, etc., would like to sell new stuff as that's the only way they make money. OTOH a lot of consumers (businesses) can't use the new stuff because they have a programme which won't work on the current OS (16-bit, etc.). Was reading where the Raspberry Pi Foundation is going to keep manufacturing their old Pi's because there is enough business for them: businesses used the original "RPi 1" and the unit finally fails -- just pop in the replacement. > KM> last year's model, so you end up in the same place and save a ton > KM> of money. > KM> (Well, maybe a ton in pennies..) > Yes on the pennies! I will probbaly go more with an Intel-based (I > learned!) motherboard I like and match it with an Intel CPU; my > 'reverse' of checking out the Intel CPUs was more to see what's to look > for -- know from the current AMD-based motherboard a 95W CPU is better > tolerated than the 125W CPU version, though probably some other factors > in there which made the CPU cooler. KM> Yeah, sometimes a problem. Not so much with the newer Intel CPUs, KM> tho. Basically if the board supports it, it should be fine. "Should be"! That may have been one of the problems with the current system: IIRC the 125W CPU was sort of at the very max of the specification. Also board was sort of rated for the processor _family_ but not specific processor. And as you mentioned some time back AMD is more into gaming and expecting the end-user to 'super-size' the cooling fans, etc. > Also seeing a lot of the same CPU being offered from Newegg. Not > surprising from being in retail: the usual sale cycle of full price, > sale at 30%, sale at 25%, sale at 40%.... And for poops and giggles > will have to check out what the "Avengers Edition" is: boot logo screen? KM> No idea, probably something to sucker gamers. I want to see the KM> boot stuff, I don't want no durn logo! First thing I disable. Yes, the logo doesn't really tell me anything whereas the BIOS stuff might -- if I can read it fast enough! Or even if I can't sometimes glance to see something doesn't look right and so investigate. Or at least remind me which key to tap! And back to Newegg's advertising, I haven't seen too many motherboards in their daily advertisements but when they do it's the 'opposite' brand: Intel CPU and AMD motherboard. > > Motherboard selection generally seems less complicated: either is able > > to use the selected CPU or not, do want certain options, don't need > > others, etc. > Right: one reason why I was doing it backwards so could be somewhat > ready for those one-day sales: I like this board, grab a CPU for it. Or > is the CPU being offered as part of the package deal any good? And no, > not necessarily going to go with a package near nor even with Newegg -- > just a starting point. KM> I'd grab the board first, as there's usually some flexibility in KM> what CPUs it'll support, but a given CPU may have a very limited KM> compatible boards list. And by the time you get there, that board KM> may not be readily available anymore. That's kinda what happened KM> with Fireball -- I'd grabbed the CPU when I saw one cheap, KM> intended to swap into Silver II so I could use the server's old KM> RAM, but then found the desired RAM cheaper than expected, so now KM> I had this homeless CPU, too good to languish unused but with no KM> board in sight. Had been looking for some time when I finally KM> tripped over a suitable board (NO! NOT DEAD!! MINE!!!) and that KM> was sheer chance. KM> Also, should you happen to miss the marketing window -- there are KM> tons more CPUs available cheap used with near-zero chance of KM> being defective, so if you have the board you can always find it KM> a CPU, and if need be start cheap and upgrade. Frex, used LGA2011 KM> Xeons go from $5 to $200. The $5 is adequate, and the $20 is KM> equivalent to the fastest i7 that socket supports, tho the $200 KM> is about 2x faster. All on the same board. OK yes. I had been thinking motherboard then CPU all along, just I am more familiar with what to look for in a motherboard and not so much a CPU so sort of preparing to study CPU options. Sort of a crash course on your $5 is fine, $20 is probably the sweet spot, and $200 isn't really worth spending at the consumer/hobbyist level. > KM> Several SATA3 ports, maybe M.2 ports (but I don't like the idea > KM> of something that hot flat against the mainboard, and an adapter > KM> in one of the PCIe slots works just as well and stays a lot > KM> cooler), at least a couple USB3 ports, more PCIe slots than you > KM> think you need (minimally 2 or better yet 3 each of 16x and 4x, > KM> not just a 16x and a 1x), at least 4 RAM slots, layout not too > KM> cramped so fullsized ATX. That was my basic criteria when I went > KM> shopping for Silver's new guts. Happened on a CPU/board combo > KM> that was featureful enough, and here we are today. > Yes, the ability to expand is somewhat important: who knows what option > will be made available? Not a fan on on-board video so need PCIe x16, KM> Onboard video is usually good enough nowadays (unless they did KM> something stupid like skimp the shared RAM down to 8mb, like the KM> older Dell did!) Won't hold up to modern games and maybe not to KM> very high def video, but certainly good enough for ordinary use. HD quality is fine for me: not using this system to watch shows but do watch the occasional video. A motherboard with on-board video with decent specs would not be excluded. KM> I no longer bother with a vidcard unless it's skimped (like that KM> Dell). However, the LGA2011 CPUs don't support onboard video KM> (being it's all one with the CPU nowadays) so those perforce need KM> cards. Which are whatever was either laying around or could be KM> found cheap and fanless. (Very tired of GPU fans going noisy and KM> bad and being worse than none. Bullet's vidcard, I finally just KM> dumped the fan and shroud and it's no worse off.) On that note I've got/had a few MythTV Frontend computers (primary purpose to playback TV shows) and I don't think any with video cards with fans have shown a problem when the fan died or otherwise malfunctioned. OTOH the cards have had a decent heat sink and the computer itself has an airflow in the cavity. Not saying the fan is useless but for my needs doesn't seem to be a requirment. > which of course uses a PCIe x16 slot -- might be nice to have a second > one available. KM> Yeah, and having only one PCIe x16 generally indicates KM> corner-cutting. I still like to see half a dozen slots of one KM> sort or another. Right: I generally use full-sized ATX boards so no need to skimp on slots to gain compactness. Stuff will fail, stuff will need to be added so extra slots and ports are good. > Built-in USB 3 (and 3.1, which is and isn't C - argh!!) is a plus - why > use a PCI(e) slot? Plus I tend to think if the motherboard comes with > the lastest-and-greatest in USB then it probably is also more up-to-date > in other factors. KM> That too. And not chintzy somewhere. Turns out the reason we only KM> get a couple USB3 ports is because the USB3.x chip is about $40 KM> per pair of ports (or at least was a year or so ago, when I heard KM> about this), which is an awful large chunk of the cost against a KM> $100 motherboard. Ugh, yeah! So now having more USB 3.x ports which looks like a benefit could mean they skimped elsewhere to balance costs. Here the overall number of USB 2.0 and 3.x ports isn't a big factor: want at least three USB 2.0's: keyboard, mouse and third to a (powered) hub. USB 3.x at least one as goes to a powered hub: the external devices are too far away to plug in directly without extension cables. > Based on my limited experiences it also seems any random video card will > work fine -- as long as it fits in a slot and the BIOS can be switched > to it. KM> Yeah, since I'm not doing modern games, all I want is a decent KM> picture, no lag or ghosting and good color, and it'll do. This one is configured as 1920 x 1080 (16:9) @ 74.99 Hz, which is probably restricted by the monitor as opposed to the video output device, Downstairs have a MythTV Frontend with some card in it -- a while back had to replace the TV as a part of the video failed. New TV's HDMI input will do 4K and that's what the computer's video card went to. Talk about a teeny-tiny display! Was full screen, just the icons were 'microscopic'! (Forced to 1080 and all was good again.) > KM> As a general rule, boards with overkill numbers of slots and > KM> ports also do not cut corners on less obvious stuff, and boards a > KM> bit short on ports probably skimped elsewhere. Over the years > KM> I've noticed a parallel trend in longevity, too. > Ok, yes -- I don't have nearly as much experience as you do on that > detail but I have used the same criteria: if a motherboard seems to be > cutting corners on something like two USB 2.0 ports instead of four then > it seems they also have skimped on some other parameters. ...Doesn't > always work: this motherboard has 6 USB 2.0 ports on the rear panel and > apparently that design division didn't cut corners but the crew > designing the Southbridge circuitry did! KM> Or just goofed up -- as complex as these things are, I suppose KM> it's not that hard to get your wires crossed somewhere in the KM> depths of the many layers in a modern board. However, when it's KM> been going on for several years, you'd think they'd fix it... I would tend to agree. "Poop occurs", but one should clean up the mess eventually! > > .. Take the lemons and make lemonade! > > Take the salmon and make salmonella! > KM> Ain't biology wonderful? :D > Yup! And seems no one remembers the old ad that had "Hey Sal! Sal > Monella!". KM> I certainly don't. I wonder if it was a regional public health ad campaign? At the time I was living in southern New Hampshire and heard it on a Boston station. I'm not even sure if more than one station. And now I'll tease your brain with "Wednesday is Prince Spaghetti Day": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNX1QtyG9_8 KM> Side note: I desperately need a different form of Courier. Dark KM> Courier doesn't grow nicely and gets all weird, like someone KM> colored in all the 'windows' in the letters. Regular Courier KM> isn't dark enough. SeaMonkey doesn't believe Bold exists. *sigh* I've been using Thunderbird for e-mail and the default "Variable Width" font. Hmm, maybe enlarge the default size to medium or a notch larger? (With Thunderbird on the same configuration page as selection of the font in Preferences.) There is also a default colour option: on my "Write" screen immediately to the right of the Font Selection is a small black square offset over a small white square: one is foreground text colour and the other background colour. Wonder if you have a dark gray selected instead of black? ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... Restaurant graffiti: you think rest rooms are bad should see our kitchen --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .