Subj : USB locking up To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Thu Oct 01 2020 11:27:00 Hi Ky! > > > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?! > > > > KM> Is that what I forgot?? > > > > We don't recall now... > > > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia? > > > Maybe - what do we compare it to? > > KM> Why are you asking *me*??! > > You were handy. :) > KM> But I'm way over here! > Physically -- who knows where your mind is!! KM> It should be right here... somewhere... Check behind the pillows again. > Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage > spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know > if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will > continue fiddling with that later. KM> Most of these things take times in milliseconds...?? That long?! Yes, that was a thought was it probably takes longer to write the file than the lockup action takes. And I wrote last night the log file disappears on boot, so even if I did happen to catch the error the information escaped. Will try with the USB Tester -- difficult to see a spike but may discover something. And of course the problem seems to be with the Southbridge, so no work-around other than a new motherboard eventually > KM> Sounds like it, actually. Similar problems reported across about > KM> a ten year span (went I went looking, found it was a > KM> broadly-distributed complaint). > Hmmm: one would think after that length of time.... Could see if was > like the bad filter cap issue. KM> So... have you popped the lid and looked for bad capacitors? When KM> I did so, they were so obvious you couldn't miss 'em... had KM> boiled up what looked like a rod sticking out of 'em! Yes, my KM> computer threw a rod. Haven't been inside for a while. If I do see 'capacitor throw-up' that'll hasten the search for a new motherboard! > KM> First Asus-vs-USB I've any experience of was in Double Vision, an > KM> Asus A8N-SLI (2006; AMD socket939). Supposedly USB2, but during > KM> boot it can only do USB1. Eventually USB stopped working > KM> entirely. KM> And then the whole board stopped working.. initially by refusing KM> to run Windows. Then by refusing to run anything. Well, it's not KM> like Double Vision wasn't already retired; wouldn't have known if KM> I hadn't taken a notion to test something with it. Tarnish now KM> occupies that case. Yes, I've reused cases as well as other components. > (Thinking numerous semi-random options, trouble is I don't know enough > on how the electronics works. Up until a day or two ago it sounded like > a good work-around to stick in a PCI(e) USB card to bypass.) KM> Many things sound better before you know... The solution certainly seemed simpler!! > KM> That's the one with the Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz ... supposedly a > KM> 64bit CPU, but has AMD's not-true-64bit bug. (At least they're > KM> consistent; I remember when the K6-2 had a not-true-32bit bug. > KM> Known issue and they shipped 'em anyway.) Having got the > KM> attention of the retro-gaming crowd, Socket939 CPUs are still > KM> quite expensive to upgrade, so since this system was rapidly > KM> superceded by newer and better, I never did... and just as well, > KM> because guess what -- it's recently blown several capacitors. > KM> Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the > KM> southbridge chip?? > Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! KM> Barry, can you tell us the answer? :D Ugh-ugh, I just gotta go to the can, man! (Autumn, our granddaughter, is in first grade and has done some remote learning here as well as playign School. Every once in a while that line from the (I think) Sister Mary Elephant skit pops in [but I don't dare say it aloud!].) > KM> Ya know, there might be a reason why I kinda prefer MSI boards... > KM> beyond their feature set. But weren't any in the price range at > KM> the time... and Silver's new board at least was from the higher > KM> end of things... well, hopefully it'll be lucky, and outlast its > KM> poor relations. > With the USB issue part of me is thinking 'dump the Asus board' on this > computer and then the Scottish Guy in me says the board is perfectly > good except for that Southbridge issue. Worthwhile as an NAS? Seems to KM> Well, that's what happened with Tarnish -- USB no workee, and it KM> also refuses to boot with more than 4GB RAM (normal max capacity KM> 8GB, but at a guess that much overloads the bogus circuit) but KM> it's perfectly fine with PCLOS as a media streamer that never KM> sees USB nor serious work. Although based on the Wikipedia article it seems that's a little dangerous as the Southbridge deals with just about everything: USB, Ethernet, hard drives, BIOS accesses.... Almost seems more important than the CPU! KM> I do note that everything loads slower than the same hardware KM> with 8GB RAM, but once loaded you can't really tell, given all it KM> does is stream baseball. Or sometimes run ReactOS, which can KM> scrape by on 128mb RAM and doesn't like over 4GB anyway. Something like the MythTV Frontends here: the computer could take a couple of minutes to load and get in to Myth but once it's loaded runs just as well as any other. As long as a decent video card, of course. > be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB > device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device > is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And KM> Eight core or four cores with hyperthreading?? AMD got in trouble KM> for 'confusing' the two in its marketing... I'm not sure: it's using an AMD FX8320, which is "8 cores" and I didn't see anything about hyperthreading in various advertisements, though did skim through some debate in a Tom's Hardware thread: a couple of posts said it used hyperthreading, a couple said no, eight separate cores, while a couple other seemed to indicate it was a eight cores with a form of hyperthreading.... Also noted the FX8320 (maybe the whole FX series) is marketed toward gamers. I think I had the idea a 'gamer computer' would be fast overall when really it is probably fast in video. > could swap for a single core but AMD and the new motherboard would want > Intel. KM> Yeah, not worth messing with. Also, single-core AMDs are KM> painfully slow with today's OSs. In fact were painfully slow with KM> antique OSs. WinXP was beyond 'em. Leave well enough alone, I KM> say. One of the posts I had skimmed though for the hyperthread question had mentioned a 3 GHz Intel is faster than a 4 GHz AMD. The post used more specific speeds like 3.2, but that was the idea. > OK, that makes more sense. Haven't played with Windows for some time so > loosing familiarity with it. Plus Ubuntu not making any noises (though > the one downstairs sometimes does). KM> PCLOS is pretty quiet too -- startup sound and a shutdown ding, KM> and that's it. I suppose one can set system sounds but I haven't KM> bothered. Here's it's pretty much just a barely-audible chirp when the systems start up. Do like the piezo speaker: at least there's a clue as to what's wrong should I hear multiple chirps. Did have to unplug the speaker (yes, had a speaker) in one years ago because for some reason the sound from MythTV came through! AFAICT everything was configured correctly; couple of options to quiet the speaker also stopped the HDMI audio so reluctantly unplugged the speaker -- and taped a note inside to remind me it was unplugged just in case I needed it for troubleshooting noises. > KM> Ooops. :) I got cured of paying for AMD over 20 years ago (see > KM> the aforementioned K6-2 debacle; this was the socket7 era!) and > KM> have seen no reason to regret that decision. Quite the > KM> contrary... Have been seeing all manner of complaints about Ryzen > KM> CPUs, nothing consistent but kinda looks like rushed-to-market. > KM> Wait a year and buy the equivalent Intel CPU (after the price > KM> comes down) and be happy for years instead. > Yes, LIS in another message, I've had other AMD computers around here > but they were all 'minor players': primary role as Frontend to the KM> Yeah, I have some random AMDs that fell on my head, but closest KM> I've come to buying one is a $15 upgrade for Westworld, since the KM> one that came with the board is just painful. Newer one is still KM> 40% slower than the equivalent Intel, but at least it's not KM> masochism to use anymore. So overall a low-cost fix. > MythTV system and do essentially dedicated. Something USB plugged in -- > rare. Plus the Linux community seemed to have 'accepted' AMD, or at > least to the point would install. Didn't really cover any USB issues, > which is more a fault of the hardware and not OS nor software. KM> Linux community has a whole lot of "anything but the market KM> leader" so there's this natural affinity for AMD. Doesn't matter KM> which one is actually better -- we must support the underdog! and KM> also the cheaper CPU. I say let 'em keep the competition in KM> business, to keep Intel on their toes. That is one thing! No competition, no need to improve. > KM> Wait, tell me about VNC? > Once upon a time... VNC (www.realvnc.com) will remotely view and > control another computer. For instance, I have a Raspberry Pi stuck > behind a TV I use as a Frontend (MythTV) but without keyboard or mouse > attached, only use the TV's remote for a few basic functions. Any > keyboarding it's easier for me to be up here in the Computer Room and > connect to the RPi via VNC, Can do updates, reboot (and will reconnect > unless drastically change something). ...Have gone into the RPi's > MythTV from up here to add/update/check on a TV programme even though > the MythTV Backend computer is about ten feet behind me(!) - just easier > to access that way. KM> Ah, so sort of Remote Desktop for your local network. It will also work on the outside: port 5900, make the Firewall exception/ allowance, probably a couple other things. (Looked it up, I haven't needed to do that here.) > Uh-huh! Probably not a PSU issue here: not recalling what it is but > should be at least 600W, probably closer to 750. And don't know what a > thumbdrive draws but should be too much. (OTOH have felt them get > warm in various computers). KM> Oh, more than plenty, then. I have randomly 350w to 650w in use, KM> tho I have one of those dim-the-lamps 1000W PSUs in the parts KM> pile, just in case someday I need to power a huge pile of HDs. KM> (It has about 25 connectors and weighs 8 pounds!) Or use that one 1KW (well, 1,000 equals!) to power several of your computers! I'd leave the original 'wimpy' PSUs in place as backups. ....Wonder if they make PSU cable extensions?! > KM> And data is what the Southbridge handles... yeah, I saw the same > KM> thing with my misbehaving beast. Seemed to be data was the > KM> trigger, but data requires voltage to move... > GAA!!! It's all one big circle!! It would seem (and I'll admit to sort > of logically guessing) if voltage was the problem then plugging in to a > powered USB hub should solve the problem: the hub has is own 5v supply. KM> BUT the port still needs a live circuit to move data... Agree. I didn't fill out/did my logic jump: if the problem was the 5 volt source inside the computer then by having an external voltage source effectively bypassing the internal one the problem should go away. As the problem did not resolve then the voltage probably is not the problem and something in data is. > KM> Um, no. With FAT32 the SAFE limit is 32GB, which is why original > KM> FDISK was limited to 32GB for FAT32 disks. Yeah, later versions > KM> of FDISK could do 64GB, but this was a Bad Idea from someone > KM> evidently not fully in the know, because there's a known bug (or > KM> if you prefer, limitation) in FAT32: if the partition is larger > KM> than 32GB, as soon as data crosses that 32GB barrier (either in > KM> total, or just getting written that far out on the disk) FAT32 > KM> starts eating files, in a manner that looks a lot like a disk > KM> failure. > Yes, agree. I'll admit to being sloppy and not fully being familiar > with details. Have come across files over 4 GB being truncated because > of the file system limitation. I think in this specific instance the > problem is MotionEye not being able to expand the ISO (?) properly. Use > a 64 GB card - Literally the same command line except having to > change drive location from sdi to sdg with a 32 GB card - KM> Don't do that, unless you LIKE data corruption... I'm lost. MotionEyeOS doesn't seem to be able to handle partitioning a card greater thaan 32 GB. the only reason the drive got changed from /dev/sdi to /dev/sdg was because the 64 GB card was seen at I and the 32 GB card at G. > KM> So if you are trying to make a FAT32 partition larger than 32GB, > KM> and your software refuses -- it's just trying to save your sorry > KM> butt. > Right. I wasn't trying to do that. The card was marked as 64 GB, > detected as such, worked fine with a limited test (copied a file to the > 64 GB partition). just the expansion script used by MotionEye doesn't > seem to like anything over 32 GB. I have seen 64 and 128 GB cards with > MotionEye pre-installed -- don't like the price, plus if something goes > wrong I'm screwed since I'm relying on somebody else. KM> NOthing prevents you from cloning the card... True: copy over the (say) 16 GB original and then s-t-r-e-t-c-h the storage partition to - oo! - 1 TB! > KM> exFAT (Extended FAT, commonly used on flash drives) is a > I didn't see exFAT as a option to format the SD card. It is available > -- just re-checked gparted. OTOH LIS a bit earlier, it seems to be a > limitation of MotionEye even though is the specific version for the > Raspberry Pi 3. KM> Pi CPUs are still 32bit... not sure how that limits an ARM CPU. Actually have been mostly doing on this system (64bit Ubuntu 18.04, AMD). Wonder if gparted hasn't been updated or just still working on it: there's a format chart and the exfat line does not allow to create, grow, shrink, check, label, UUID. Does allow moving and copying. > KM> different filesystem entirely, more like NTFS without the > KM> journaling overhead (and without the allocation table redundancy, > KM> so if it fails, there's no recovery). Older Windows needs a patch > KM> to see exFAT. It can be used on Really Big Disks. I usually > KM> reformat 'em NTFS so everything can see it without any hoop > KM> jumping. > I've been using a journaled system on my bigger mainframe/server-type > systems because I do want the recovery ability -- and probably have used > it! KM> Yeah, no telling how much the OS did while you weren't looking!! It seems to be faster than I am! > KM> Of course FAT32 also has a filesize limit of about 4GB. NTFS and > KM> exFAT have no such limit. > Don't need that large a file for the MotionEye system. Other systems, > yes. KM> I don't even know what MotionEye IS... some sort of home surveillance system> I'm causing you to learn all sorts of things!! (I'll try to be a good influence!) > Oh: also had run into a similiar problem with one of my external card > adapters: it is USB 2.0 and has capacity limitiations based on the card: > SDHC is 32 GB, Mini SDHC is 4 GB, regular and Micro SDXC is 64 GB. And > to anticipate the question: IOGear GFR209. (I used a SIIG guess model > JU-MR0712-S1 which says supports up to 2 TB.) KM> Where did you find a miniSD?? Just typed what they said. I've got an old Compact Flash. KM> Someone gift me a very old KM> "PocketPC" phone (Windows phone with a REAL KEYBOARD!) which is KM> useless as a phone (can't connect to anything anymore), but is a KM> very nice literal pocket PC (with a REAL KEYBOARD!!). Just a KM> 200MHz CPU, but enough for stripped-down WinXP it seems to run. KM> Anyway it has a mini-SD slot! So there! > I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in > diameter by about the same in height!! KM> Holy crap!! you don't want to touch those for a month or two KM> after powering down... Might make a good battery backup for an emergency lighting system - wonder how long it would power a few LEDs?! > As I recall when I purchased the upgrade RAM checked with Crucial's site > and they said a max of 8 GB (4x 2GB). So I'm thinking my "M51" tag is > wrong. Right now can't see an official chassis tag. KM> Is there some linux util that IDs hardware by brand and model KM> number, like SIW or Speccy for Windows?? 'hwinfo' might work. At this point would just be easier to pull the unit from the storage stack and look at the label - would have to plug in power and monitor anyway!! > KM> I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53. > "It gets worse"! One of the "M51"'s tagged here is an IBM - has the > logo on the front. Their label "8142-KNB". I lso have a note "Intel > Pentium 4 @ 3.20 GHz x2" (so dual core) and "RAM 3.0 GB max 4". So this > one is the true M51. KM> That's a 32bit CPU. So tho the CPU can theoretically address 64GB KM> RAM, it can only run 32bit OSs. Which normally limits it to 4GB KM> RAM, but even linux can use PAE... KM> https://askubuntu.com/questions/272873/what-is-the-maximum-amount- KM> of-ram-that-u KM> untu-32-bit-supports KM> ...which should kick it up to 8GB. I might have something incorrectly set in the BIOS, or just limited because of something in the way the motherboard is wired. At this point an old and slow system doesn't do me much good, though reluctant to get rid of it as good for a back up or test unit. > > > Sounds like winter projects! > > KM> At least, after the baseball season. > > But now they're showing reruns! > KM> Not yet! > You sure? Maybe your memory... KM> I still have all 8GB! But did it pass MEMTEST86?! > > And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the > KM> I have fiber right across the road, laid when Montana Power got > That's highly annoying! Don't know if you recall him here from years ago > but think it was Chopin Chusacks who lived on the wrong side of the > road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not. KM> I remember him but not these woes! May have been someone else. Seems like the person I'm trying to recall lived in a warehouse. > Possible, though seems with CenturyLink this lack of upgrading has been > going on before then. And CL seems to be huge, so more "we'll be buying > you" than "you'll be buying us". Oh well. ...And thinking NBC was > bought by GE and Universal and so Comcast, ABC by Disney.... KM> Asked their local guy about fiber. He said the fiber-specific KM> switching equipment costs about $100,000 per unit... which is why KM> they ain't doing it for small neighborhoods. Unless we want to KM> pony up for it... While I think of it CenturyLink apparently changed their name to 'Lumen'. Called one of their Billing numbers and got an announcement which indicated it was for business customers and half-heard something that sounded like 'Lumen'; checked out later and is their new name. BTW, did get a credit for the five days without telephone service -- almost 32x what I calculated! As for $100K per unit, sure it's an expense, but here they've (CL/Lumen) have lost customers because of not supplying. ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... Devote your spare time to neglecting your duties. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .