Subj : Re: USB locking up To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Wed Sep 30 2020 22:24:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > > > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?! > > > > KM> Is that what I forgot?? > > > > We don't recall now... > > > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia? > > > Maybe - what do we compare it to? > > KM> Why are you asking *me*??! > > You were handy. :) > KM> But I'm way over here! > Physically -- who knows where your mind is!! It should be right here... somewhere... > Played a bit with a thumbrive last night: no lockups and no voltage > spikes/dips ... caught! One second is an awfully long time! Don't know > if can change the time to less than a second, plus need to log. Will > continue fiddling with that later. Most of these things take times in milliseconds...?? > KM> Sounds like it, actually. Similar problems reported across about > KM> a ten year span (went I went looking, found it was a > KM> broadly-distributed complaint). > > Hmmm: one would think after that length of time.... Could see if was > like the bad filter cap issue. So... have you popped the lid and looked for bad capacitors? When I did so, they were so obvious you couldn't miss 'em... had boiled up what looked like a rod sticking out of 'em! Yes, my computer threw a rod. > > KM> First Asus-vs-USB I've any experience of was in Double Vision, an > KM> Asus A8N-SLI (2006; AMD socket939). Supposedly USB2, but during > KM> boot it can only do USB1. Eventually USB stopped working > KM> entirely. And then the whole board stopped working.. initially by refusing to run Windows. Then by refusing to run anything. Well, it's not like Double Vision wasn't already retired; wouldn't have known if I hadn't taken a notion to test something with it. Tarnish now occupies that case. > (Thinking numerous semi-random options, trouble is I don't know enough > on how the electronics works. Up until a day or two ago it sounded like > a good work-around to stick in a PCI(e) USB card to bypass.) Many things sound better before you know... > KM> That's the one with the Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz ... supposedly a > KM> 64bit CPU, but has AMD's not-true-64bit bug. (At least they're > KM> consistent; I remember when the K6-2 had a not-true-32bit bug. > KM> Known issue and they shipped 'em anyway.) Having got the > KM> attention of the retro-gaming crowd, Socket939 CPUs are still > KM> quite expensive to upgrade, so since this system was rapidly > KM> superceded by newer and better, I never did... and just as well, > KM> because guess what -- it's recently blown several capacitors. > KM> Anyone care to guess whether they're associated with the > KM> southbridge chip?? > > Oo! Oo! Oo! Pick me! Pick meeee! Barry, can you tell us the answer? :D > > KM> Ya know, there might be a reason why I kinda prefer MSI boards... > KM> beyond their feature set. But weren't any in the price range at > KM> the time... and Silver's new board at least was from the higher > KM> end of things... well, hopefully it'll be lucky, and outlast its > KM> poor relations. > > With the USB issue part of me is thinking 'dump the Asus board' on this > computer and then the Scottish Guy in me says the board is perfectly > good except for that Southbridge issue. Worthwhile as an NAS? Seems to Well, that's what happened with Tarnish -- USB no workee, and it also refuses to boot with more than 4GB RAM (normal max capacity 8GB, but at a guess that much overloads the bogus circuit) but it's perfectly fine with PCLOS as a media streamer that never sees USB nor serious work. I do note that everything loads slower than the same hardware with 8GB RAM, but once loaded you can't really tell, given all it does is stream baseball. Or sometimes run ReactOS, which can scrape by on 128mb RAM and doesn't like over 4GB anyway. > be fine as long as don't touch USB, and even then if plug in a USB > device and it does lock up seems to be fine on reboot (the USB device > is connected at boot). OTOH talk abouit overkill: eight core CPU. And Eight core or four cores with hyperthreading?? AMD got in trouble for 'confusing' the two in its marketing... > could swap for a single core but AMD and the new mothboard would want > Intel. Yeah, not worth messing with. Also, single-core AMDs are painfully slow with today's OSs. In fact were painfully slow with antique OSs. WinXP was beyond 'em. Leave well enough alone, I say. > OK, that makes more sense. Haven't played with Windows for some time so > loosing familiarity with it. Plus Ubuntu not making any noises (though > the one downstairs sometimes does). PCLOS is pretty quiet too -- startup sound and a shutdown ding, and that's it. I suppose one can set system sounds but I haven't bothered. > KM> Ooops. :) I got cured of paying for AMD over 20 years ago (see > KM> the aforementioned K6-2 debacle; this was the socket7 era!) and > KM> have seen no reason to regret that decision. Quite the > KM> contrary... Have been seeing all manner of complaints about Ryzen > KM> CPUs, nothing consistent but kinda looks like rushed-to-market. > KM> Wait a year and buy the equivalent Intel CPU (after the price > KM> comes down) and be happy for years instead. > > Yes, LIS in another message, I've had other AMD computers around here > but they were all 'minor players': primary role as Frontend to the Yeah, I have some random AMDs that fell on my head, but closest I've come to buying one is a $15 upgrade for Westworld, since the one that came with the board is just painful. Newer one is still 40% slower than the equivalent Intel, but at least it's not masochism to use anymore. A bunch of CPU comparisons -- a range of what my boards can use http://twilightasylum.com/pc/cpus.htm and the ones in service with different benchmarks: http://twilightasylum.com/pc/cpus3.htm Note how much slower Westworld benches with raw numbers (CPU-Z) vs gaming benchmarks (Passmark). Also note how much faster the same system is with a 64bit OS -- the AMD CPU (Paint It Black) about 40% faster, but the x64 CPU (Cash) 400% faster!! > MythTV system and do essentially dedicated. Something USB plugged in -- > rare. Plus the Linux community seemed to have 'accepted' AMD, or at > least to the point would install. Didn't really cover any USB issues, > which is more a fault of the hardware and not OS nor software. Linux community has a whole lot of "anything but the market leader" so there's this natural affinity for AMD. Doesn't matter which one is actually better -- we must support the underdog! and also the cheaper CPU. I say let 'em keep the competition in business, to keep Intel on their toes. > KM> Wait, tell me about VNC? > > Once upon a time... VNC (www.realvnc.com) will remotely view and > control another computer. For instance, I have a Raspberry Pi stuck > behind a TV I use as a Frontend (MythTV) but without keyboard or mouse > attached, only use the TV's remote for a few basic functions. Any > keyboarding it's easier for me to be up here in the Computer Room and > connect to the RPi via VNC, Can do updates, reboot (and will reconnect > unless drastically change something). ...Have gone into the RPi's > MythTV from up here to add/update/check on a TV programme even though > the MythTV Backend computer is about ten feet behind me(!) - just easier > to access that way. Ah, so sort of Remote Desktop for your local network. > > > KM> Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One > > KM> dies, just plug everything into the other and life goes on as > > KM> before. > > Yes, does tend to make repairs easier! Of course the problem is after a > > while run out of the duplicate parts. Cannibalizing does have > > advantages, though upgrading isn't one. > KM> This is a minor difficulty. > > Still have plenty of those 286 motherboards, hmm?! Alas, only one... I still have old Wedgie, tho it hasn't been fired up in some years, and I'd have to swap out the vidcard as I no longer have a monochrome monitor. However, I do have a 16bit vidcard, if I decide I can't live without Wedgie's services. > Uh-huh! Probably not a PSU issue here: not recalling what it is but > should be at least 600W, probably closer to 750. And don't know what a > thumbdrive draws but should be too much. (OTOH have felt them get > warm in various computers). Oh, more than plenty, then. I have randomly 350w to 650w in use, tho I have one of those dim-the-lamps 1000W PSUs in the parts pile, just in case someday I need to power a huge pile of HDs. (It has about 25 connectors and weighs 8 pounds!) > KM> And data is what the Southbridge handles... yeah, I saw the same > KM> thing with my misbehaving beast. Seemed to be data was the > KM> trigger, but data requires voltage to move... > > GAA!!! It's all one big circle!! It would seem (and I'll admit to sort > of logically guessing) if voltage was the problem then plugging in to a > powered USB hub should solve the problem: the hub has is own 5v supply. BUT the port still needs a live circuit to move data... > KM> Um, no. With FAT32 the SAFE limit is 32GB, which is why original > KM> FDISK was limited to 32GB for FAT32 disks. Yeah, later versions > KM> of FDISK could do 64GB, but this was a Bad Idea from someone > KM> evidently not fully in the know, because there's a known bug (or > KM> if you prefer, limitation) in FAT32: if the partition is larger > KM> than 32GB, as soon as data crosses that 32GB barrier (either in > KM> total, or just getting written that far out on the disk) FAT32 > KM> starts eating files, in a manner that looks a lot like a disk > KM> failure. > > Yes, agree. I'll admit to being sloppy and not fully being familiar > with details. Have come across files over 4 GB being truncated because > of the file system limitation. I think in this specific instance the > problem is MotionEye not being able to expand the ISO (?) properly. Use > a 64 GB card - Literally the same command line except having to > change drive location from sdi to sdg with a 32 GB card - Don't do that, unless you LIKE data corruption... > KM> So if you are trying to make a FAT32 partition larger than 32GB, > KM> and your software refuses -- it's just trying to save your sorry > KM> butt. > > Right. I wasn't trying to do that. The card was marked as 64 GB, > detected as such, worked fine with a limited test (copied a file to the > 64 GB partition). just the expansion script used by MotionEye doesn't > seem to like anything over 32 GB. I have seen 64 and 128 GB cards with > MotionEye pre-installed -- don't like the price, plus if something goes > wrong I'm screwed since I'm relying on somebody else. NOthing prevents you from cloning the card... > KM> exFAT (Extended FAT, commonly used on flash drives) is a > > I didn't see exFAT as a option to format the SD card. It is available > -- just re-checked gparted. OTOH LIS a bit earlier, it seems to be a > limitation of MotionEye even though is the specific version for the > Raspberry Pi 3. Pi CPUs are still 32bit... not sure how that limits an ARM CPU. > KM> different filesystem entirely, more like NTFS without the > KM> journaling overhead (and without the allocation table redundancy, > KM> so if it fails, there's no recovery). Older Windows needs a patch > KM> to see exFAT. It can be used on Really Big Disks. I usually > KM> reformat 'em NTFS so everything can see it without any hoop > KM> jumping. > > I've been using a journaled system on my bigger mainframe/server-type > systems because I do want the recovery ability -- and probably have used > it! Yeah, no telling how much the OS did while you weren't looking!! > > KM> Of course FAT32 also has a filesize limit of about 4GB. NTFS and > KM> exFAT have no such limit. > > Don't need that large a file for the MotionEye system. Other systems, > yes. I don't even know what MotionEye IS... > Oh: also had run into a similiar problem with one of my external card > adapters: it is USB 2.0 and has capacity limitiations based on the card: > SDHC is 32 GB, Mini SDHC is 4 GB, regular and Micro SDXC is 64 GB. And > to anticipate the question: IOGear GFR209. (I used a SIIG guess model > JU-MR0712-S1 which says supports up to 2 TB.) Where did you find a miniSD?? Someone gift me a very old "PocketPC" phone (Windows phone with a REAL KEYBOARD!) which is useless as a phone (can't connect to anything anymore), but is a very nice literal pocket PC (with a REAL KEYBOARD!!). Just a 200MHz CPU, but enough for stripped-down WinXP it seems to run. Anyway it has a mini-SD slot! > Might be going inside later! 'sudo dmidecode --type 39' was given one > place as a way to find the PSU information -- not here. Sort of > wandering the command line and 'sudo dmidecode | grep -i Power' gave me > a line that said I have one power cord!! Use two for 240? ...Ah! > Maybe plug two cords into two different outlets on two different > circuits!! Oh, there's useful... > OK, back to work: pretty sure it's a Thermaltake rated 750W. Should be decent enough. I'm an Enermax bigot (at least so long as they were 100% vertical), but haven't heard anything terrible about Thermaltake PSUs. > I've got an old PSU for a Sanders 720 with capacitors about 4" in > diameter by about the same in height!! Holy crap!! you don't want to touch those for a month or two after powering down... > As I recall when I purchased the upgrade RAM checked with Crucial's site > and they said a max of 8 GB (4x 2GB). So I'm thinking my "M51" tag is > wrong. Right now can't see an official chassis tag. Is there some linux util that IDs hardware by brand and model number, like SIW or Speccy for Windows?? > KM> Lenovo seems to have some funny ideas about its own products... > KM> frex that RMA'd dual CPU board I got back as "refused"?? Lenovo > KM> support guy swears up and down it's not theirs, and he worked on > KM> developing the D20 line so he knows! BUT when I plug the model > KM> number into Lenovo search, guess what, up comes the D20. Which it > KM> doesn't look like... but BIOS (when it had one CPU, thus before > KM> it PFFZT'd) said it IS a Lenovo D20. Must be some hands that > KM> never shook other hands, is all I can think. > > They hired someone from Microsoft? Failed line "Nope, we never did > that"! Haha, apparently so > > > KM> I can't find the M51 on their site at all. Closest is the M53. > > "It gets worse"! One of the "M51"'s tagged here is an IBM - has the > logo on the front. Their label "8142-KNB". I lso have a note "Intel > Pentium 4 @ 3.20 GHz x2" (so dual core) and "RAM 3.0 GB max 4". So this > one is the true M51. That's a 32bit CPU. So tho the CPU can theoretically address 64GB RAM, it can only run 32bit OSs. Which normally limits it to 4GB RAM, but even linux can use PAE... https://askubuntu.com/questions/272873/what-is-the-maximum-amount-of-ram-that-ubuntu-32-bit-supports ....which should kick it up to 8GB. > > > Sounds like winter projects! > > KM> At least, after the baseball season. > > But now they're showing reruns! > KM> Not yet! > You sure? Maybe your memory... I still have all 8GB! > > And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the > KM> I have fiber right across the road, laid when Montana Power got > That's highly annoying! Don't know if you recall him here from years ago > but think it was Chopin Chusacks who lived on the wrong side of the > road: across the street was able to get some service but he could not. I remember him but not these woes! > Possible, though seems with CenturyLink this lack of upgrading has been > going on before then. And CL seems to be huge, so more "we'll be buying > you" than "you'll be buying us". Oh well. ...And thinking NBC was > bought by GE and Universal and so Comcast, ABC by Disney.... Asked their local guy about fiber. He said the fiber-specific switching equipment costs about $100,000 per unit... which is why they ain't doing it for small neighborhoods. Unless we want to pony up for it... þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .