Subj : Too many? :) To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Wed Sep 23 2020 08:26:00 Hi Ky! > > My initial thought was to follow that which appeals to your sense of > > organization -- after all, your compilation! > KM> Yeah, and then I realized I'd run the pathnames out to a day's > KM> hike from the prompt... and then what do you do with something > KM> like DebianDog (or worse, DevuanDog) which is really Debian but > KM> lives in the Puppy ecosystem? > Ummm, multiple listings? KM> Not unless I did symlinks on disk, which I don't want to do. The KM> listing is the actual directory structure. That's all it's for. I KM> just find it amusing how many I've collected, and which got more KM> attention. Yes, didn't know there were so many variations out there! As for the listing, I was thinking a separate file, not a tree output. > KM> Bah. "Unsorted". :D > Sounds like the joke about the secretary who filed everything under "M" > for "Miscellaneous"! Actually as long as it can be found relatively > easily it doesn't matter where it is. KM> True enough... fact is after I've tested most of 'em, they're KM> discarded from consideration and I never look at 'em again. So it KM> doesn't really matter, unless one tickles my Look Again Later KM> circuit. Then I want to FIND it! Or in one case, when one of our KM> number on the PCLOS forum wanted to see an obscure spin, I proved KM> to have the last remaining copy (now on archive.org). Horray! Would have thought someone else to have had a copy, but suppose easy enough to be lost when a computer dies, the person dies..... > > As for the 'never find again' aspect, simply use a Find or Search > > option? Start from near the top and have computer drill down and locate > > for you. > KM> Oh, but when you can't remember what some obscure spin called > KM> itself... > BTDT - sometimes with the titles of my own files! KM> I have dozens, perhaps hundreds of directories named Stuff... or KM> sometimes !Stuff... sometimes both.... I try to be a little more descriptive but doesn't always work. I do have a few variations on 'temporary'! > KM> This actually happened with ... I believe it was JULinux (Just > KM> Use linux) or possibly a variant that remains unrediscovered... > KM> All I could remember is that the default wallpaper had Tux as > KM> Jesus. Which was extremely funny but not enough to make the NAME > KM> stick in my head! That's why the durn ISO is appended "Jesus > KM> linux". (Or should be. I need to download another for my > KM> collection.) > Hence the spreadsheet-type form with the Notes column! KM> I actually tried doing something like that when I did the first KM> big trawl looking for a distro to love... printed out a Wikipedia KM> list with ancestors and last-update and whatever else was on the KM> chart. Not sure it accomplished anything but it did waste about KM> 10 sheets of paper. :) The backs of which can be used for scratch paper! > I rarely use spreadsheets the utility but sometimes use the concept in a > regular text editor. Guess it's more the concept of "everything is > organized in columns". KM> Yeah, did a lot of columns and tables in WordPerfect for that KM> kind of thing... nowadays I mostly don't care. I sometimes create a sort-of spreadsheet to compare items for purchase: helps determine which one is better (for my needs) as the listings don't always have everything together much less in the same order. > KM> === > Hmm: sort of a marker for a message break! Or maybe just a marker of > restart point.... KM> Yes! this is where I rebooted my brain!! Things really got equalized! > Yes, I sort of also go by the "if it doesn't install right it's not good > for me" when trying out software. KM> Yep... I'm past where I want to nursemaid stuff along. Either KM> work right, and don't make me get out the whip, or off you go. Right: I know there is going to be a learning curve, bu I don't want to have to look at the manual every step. A quick quide is fine - it is new, after all -- but "which button do I push to take a screenshot" should be pretty self-explanatory. > KM> So there's finally a KDE-on-Debian that at least looks decent > KM> live. Let's try that... if we can figure out the damn > KM> partitioner. Not sure what took it so long but it didn't actually > KM> do anything; here's Mageia's /home still intact (well, at least I > KM> didn't have to redo my KDE settings), in part because it wouldn't > KM> let me change it. Two hours later it's finally installed.... at > KM> first it was really sluggish; seems to have gotten better. > Doing an automatic backup of some sort? Creating a journal? KM> Dunno... didn't see anything happening... Happened to think of that option as my laptop will seem sluggish and it's doing a backup. No real way to tell until it's done. Suppose could look in System Monitor; otherwise just note the HDD LED is flashing like mad. > KM> Letting it run updates, but I don't see anything to induce me to > KM> switch. Only reason to not nuke it is that the installer is a > KM> major PITA and I don't want to do it again, ever. Makes Windows > KM> installs look simple. > The problem might be your slow data line. I have done a KM> Actually, no. Even not counting that, it still took just over an KM> hour. So much for that excuse! ...No other guesses coming to mind. ...Noisy line and have to resend data? KM> Today's experiment is OpenSuSE/Gecko (Rolling) with KDE. It KM> sensibly does all the config stuff up front, so no halts in KM> mid-stream that need attention, but so far it's taken two hours KM> and is only to 91%, and far as I can tell it's not downloading KM> anything (even if it is, it should have long since been done, KM> with very little to do as this is a current ISO, with no huge KM> recent updates that I know of). "Removing one package" -- what's KM> that about?? I remember having couple hour long update sessions but seems those were with the older Raspberry Pi's, plus going from NOOBS to current, so tons of little files to be updated. Using a current ISO can still have lots of updates, even adding new (ISO provides a generic to get things going, checks for, downloads and installs a specific file set).... As for 'removing one package', something old, something new, something borrowed -- oh wait, that's not the right one! KM> Oh goodie, it's finally done! now let's see if it'll boot (live KM> SuSE fails about 2 times out of 3).... Well, it KM> finally got past the splash screen, but now we have a blank KM> monitor.... eventually I lost patience and did C-A-D... now I KM> have a mouse cursor... if it's cooking an Nvidia driver in the KM> background, it needs to show me that (normally you can hit ESC KM> and see what's going on)... shouldn't take this long anyway... Let's see: semi-random stuff coming to mind. I did have problems with installation when I had that bad RAM stick, so run the extended MEM86 test (it passed the quick/default option. There were times I actually got into the Install steps (never would do direct install, always want to the trial). Is 'nomodeset' in the install options? Read somewhere that's now causing problems. May have been with a tiny resolution; do recall one of the suggested fixes I read about when I could get Ubuntu to install because (of the faulty RAM) was to use nomodeset. KM> ...and I've typed everything in this message other than the above KM> two paragraphs while waiting for it to find its brain, and it's KM> still just a blank screen and a mouse cursor (it must have loaded KM> the desktop, cuz that's a Plasma cursor). It's not locked up, but KM> nothing is happening. Ignores C-A-D, which normally if something KM> is stuck will at least get you a declaration that it's SENDING KM> SigTerm and subsequent shutdown. KM> So punched the POWER OFF button, and now I have: KM> fireballgecko login: KM> (that's what I named it) KM> which does not take input. It is supposedly set to autologin. KM> And about the time I got done typing that, it decided to actually KM> do a shutdown and power-off. Some sort of 'saving last state'? KM> So it's rebooting, I'm watching the crawl... it got past login, KM> but is stuck at Started Locale Service. Ten minutes later, KM> there's a mouse cursor. Forced power down, repeat, this time it KM> had to be fed login creds, stuck at same place, and ten minutes KM> later, a mouse cursor. KM> Well, it can sit there; I'll go out and do chores and see what KM> it's doing in an hour. And then I need that monitor to watch KM> baseball. "Very annoying" is the mild form of what's coming to mind! Some functions do take along time: there's a comment in an older MythTV Installation Guide at a certain step to go away and get a cup of coffee as the step took a very long time (and appears as if nothing is occurring). ...When I was trying to use a 64 GB card with MotionEye it took around ten minutes to complete the 'expanding partition' step (on an RPi 3B+). That's the one that only like up to 32 GB -- same step takes about a minute. KM> Lordy, do these people ever test their products outside of a VM? "Oh, this utility is missing from the installer. I have it here, but guess you need it there - sorry!" > couple of Raspbian creations and what used to take an hour with the 7 > Mbps DSL now only takes (guesing) ten minutes with the fiber optic > service. Unfortunately you can't do much about the data rate they give > you but just thinking it's a possibility. Seems even during the > installation things are being checked/called to The Internet. KM> When I made the mistake of doing a netinstall with Debian (the KM> real thing, not a descendant), it took over four hours, I had to KM> babysit it the whole way, and when it was done it wouldn't boot. KM> Not how you make fans... Really. One thing to be a guinea pig and know there may be problems. Quite another to be using a finished and supposedly tested product. ....Just thought: at the store the computers sometimes needed to have a new install. Don't know what happened to cause but a desktop terminal would fail and need the OS, etc., reinstalled. For whatever reason would take sometimes _days_. We're not talking the computers running the store, we're talking those standard units with maybe a 250 GB hard drive. Sure the data is probably encoded and that takes a whole extra five seconds to decode. Why it took so long, no idea. Just trying to think why yours took so long. And yes, the installs frequently failed at the store; we always thought because someone ignored the 'Do Not Touch' sign (even when the keyboard was semi-hidden...). > KM> PCLOS has spoiled me. Installs in 5 minutes flat (even with my > KM> 3GB of added stuff) and a handful of clicks, nothing to configure > KM> and all works OOTB. > That takes all the challenge out! KM> I'm tired of challenges; I want successes! Yeahhh... KM> Seriously, one of the big reasons why in my stable of PCs, PCLOS KM> has been edging out Windows (never mind other linux distros), KM> especially newer Windows, is that the install is so fast and KM> painless. If I need to use a system for something else and can't KM> be arsed to save the old setup, I can have it back in five KM> minutes. (Well, the last one I timed, on an i7-3xxx: 4 minutes 20 KM> seconds.) You can't even do a disk restore that fast. KM> It's occurred to me that this might be a side effect of PCLOS KM> being a one-man-band and wholly volunteer, so it only has one KM> person's time to waste, and Tex isn't real patient. Most distros KM> are a bunch of people; Debian is hundreds of people. Combine all KM> that wasted time, and the end user gets it all at once... I must say I admire those people creating the OSs, as well as various utilities, etc., etc. Lots of variables, even on 'minor' stuff like AMD vs. Intel vs. ARM - and then put the various versions and options for each of those into the mix. Then start adding various video cards, various audio cards, .... ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... Picked up book called "Glue in Many Lands"; can't put it down. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .