Subj : USB locking up To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Wed Sep 16 2020 09:21:00 Hi Ky! > > > > the Round TuIts, But Firsts, etc. You had given a link which > > > > suggested going in to the BIOS to disable the Marvell SATA ports > > > KM> I did? :) > > > Sure; remember when you had amnesia?! > > KM> Is that what I forgot?? > > We don't recall now... > KM> Wait, now we both have amnesia? > Maybe - what do we compare it to? KM> Why are you asking *me*??! You were handy. :) > KM> You can look in the BIOS under ... I think it's under System > KM> Health -- and check the voltage in realtime. This (at least in my > KM> experience) will report what the board is using, not what the PSU > KM> is providing. > Yes, I've looked at that and appears normal: 5v a fraction under (4.97v > IIRC), 12v a fraction over -- definitely within 1% as opposed to 10%. KM> Did you watch if it changed significantly under load? Uh, no. Never really occured to me! ...So far just verified without a change in load the voltage didn't alter significantly, which correlates 100% with the system doesn't lock up as long as no new USB device is plugged in! > > The motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 R2.0. Wandering the web have found > > others with the same problem. Stuff about "LLC" -- Load Line > > Calibration -- and "FSB" -- Front Side Bus ==> carry data between the > > central processing unit (CPU) and a memory controller hub, known as the > > northbridge. > KM> Huh. That's the AMD version of Silver's (Intel) board. Apparently > KM> we both have good taste. > Of course! :) Guess the good news is even though different CPUs and the > assocoated design differences what is applicable to one is probably > applicable to the other. (And yes I did check to see if switching the A > to I was the 'trick' - nope!). KM> Oh, no, mine that has the bad Southbridge is an Asus P5B Deluxe KM> (2008). So far Silver's new board (2014) has, knock wood, no KM> issues. But bad southbridge does seem to be kind of an Asus KM> thing... hopefully yours doesn't predict mine's future. Wonder if the Asus engineers used basically the same circuit design over the years -- it works, why change? Or went with cheaper components -- a half cent adds up after not too long! KM> And I think the other P5B is starting to go, as I'm getting that KM> popping "device plugged/unplugged" sound once in a while... KM> another early symptom. :( That's one thing I haven't heard: the popping noise. Something from the board/BIOS Beep Speaker (piezo) or audio speakers or ...?? I was initially thinking the capacitor was leaking and popped. > > KM> Yours: > KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/overview/ > KM> Mine: > KM> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_LE/overview/ > Should have read ahead (on the Intel guess). KM> We do NOT *buy* AMD. I should not have bought AMD! Was an old rule of mine, don't recall when I decided to try. > Sort of got excited when scanned through the overview and came across > "check your PC in real time". I'm in "monitor the voltages" mode so > interpreting that as seeing the voltages, temperatures, etc.; probably > is more like VNC or Remote Desktop. KM> I don't know what can monitor voltage from within linux. Installing 'lm-sensors' then running 'sensors' or 'watch sensors' at Terminal. "watch sensors" wil update every two seconds. Powewr seems rock-stable: +12v +12.05v + 5v + 5.01v (though as I typed that saw it dip to 4.99 for one display cycle) Then I noticed something: Vcore: +1.27v (min = +2.98 v, max = +2.23 v). Waitaminute: the minimum is more than the maximum! (No, that wasn't a typo.) Chart's got a couple of other references backwards for the GPU and CPU. > KM> Bought Silver's used off eBay, CPU included... was the best > KM> sub-$200 option at the time, and haven't seen anything more > KM> exciting since in that price range. Now if only I'd finish moving > KM> computer so I could actually USE the thing...!! > Being able to use does tend to make a better investment. OTOH > having spare parts on hand isn't always a bad thing (no wait!) KM> Haha... having twin boards has been handy more than once. One KM> dies, just plug everything into the other and life goes on as KM> before. Yes, does tend to make repairs easier! Of course the problem is after a while run out of the duplicate parts. Cannibalizing does have advantages, though upgrading isn't one. > KM> Any voltage drop in the 5V lines might affect USB. > Agree, which is why I was sort of looking around and fiddling with > things like charging capabilities. OTOH would seem there should be more > of a correlation between which USB device cause the lockup. Seems like KM> Wasn't when mine was going... you wouldn't think a mouse dongle KM> would overtax it, but apparently it did. Didn't lock up but would KM> simply Not Work. I'm thinking along those lines too: it seems more the act of plugging in is the trigger as opposed to the electrical draw. LIS the other day, I plugged in the same card reader (and SD card) numerous times and only once did it cause a lock up. Doesn't help either arguement: same USB thing being plugged in, so seems should always/usually work or not work. > a thumbdrive doesn't need all that much compared to a card reader or > external DVD or hard drive. And DC is constant, not like AC and I might > hit a low point. ...WAG KM> External HD or DVD usually has its own power supply. Right. And to extend I have an external USB 3.0 hub, so external power source, and it does the same maybe-I'll-lock-up-maybe-I-won't thing when a device is plugged in, which is why I'm leaning towards data rather than voltage as the trigger. > Last few days was fiddling with a card reader (adapter) and a microSD > card. Same reader, same card, almost always the same port. Once, out > of maybe a dozen times (seemed like more!) the system locked up. Would > seem if the adapter was the trigger (too much current, USB connector > pins misaligned and shorting out, etc.) I would have more lockups. KM> If it's a power issue ... remember every time the system accesses KM> a drive or RAM or CPU for some other reason that draws more KM> power. Right -- tons of variables! USB --> Southbridge --> CPU. Plus the components in between (thinking 'transisitor' just to keep simple', plus if there's a voltage/current spike or dip it affects whatever else is being supplied by that line. KM> Short usually doesn't lock up, rather it causes an instant KM> reboot. Guess that pretty much excludes the problem being a short, or short duration high current draw episode! (Isn't a true short but like a motor which dims the lights when it starts.) KM> Had a machine that would randomly reboot. Realized it wasn't KM> quite random, but rather when someone walked by... Hmm. Turns out KM> that with even the slightest vibration, one of the naked metal KM> pins that stick out of the back of the motherboard was just KM> barely contacting the metal case. Instant short-out and reboot. KM> Transplanted it to a different case; problem solved! (Still have KM> that system, tho being of the socket7 era, not real useful.) Reminds me of the Heathkit GR-300 TV I built: just sitting there, SNAP! and shuts off. HVPS board would arc to the chassis. First solution to mind: round off solder pad points. Helped, but not completely. Eventually glued a rubber pad on the chassis under the board -- solved! Well, not a true solution but stopped the problem. > (BTW, the problem wasn't with the hardware but the software. Issue was > the software is supposed to format the SD card. Yup: I was using a 64 > GB card and so over that limit. Switched to a 32 GB card -- no > problems.) KM> Huh. What file format were you trying to use? Default/FAT32/something else. In this specific case I don't think it's the format but the software/utility: MotionEye. Seems to have problems if the card is larger than 32 GB (so 64), current and prior versions. I'm not the only one but of course now can't find anything to support. Current creation: the command line to copy the image, auto-install the static address, WiFi, etc., is rather long so I have a template on file and copy that to Terminal. Several attempts with the 64 GB card, one with the 32. > Keyboard and mouse on the USB 2.0 ports; my plug-ins are almost-always > on USB 3.0, usually front port. KM> Some systems will not recognize keyboard or mouse on the USB3 KM> ports, at least not during bootup. Both my "new" boxen have USB2 KM> ports labeled specifically for these devices. Right: I remember having an old prebuilt system I purchased cheap from the store. It either wouldn't boot or not detect the keyboard and mouse if in the 'wrong' USB ports. Trouble is, that detail wasn't printed on the rear panel and only casually indicated on the pictoral User Guide. If looked at the picture quickly appeared to say 'plug in in this area' but if looked closely was to specific ports. I did test: plug in the keyboard and mouse where specified by the drawing, worked; reverse or any place else, nope. > An this is probably nothing: during boot my powered USB 3.0 hub will be > on (port indicators), off for a second or so, and then back on. Don't > know if blinks or anything when a system lockup occurs as the hub is > behind me when I plug something into the front panel. Also not > recalling if the LEDs are on during a lockup. KM> No idea. One of mine has power on/off LEDs and switches for each KM> port; the other has noting but a powered-on LED for the whole KM> device. OK - just putting stuff out there. Wouldn't be the first time I've done "oh! it's not supposed to work that way?!". > KM> Discovered another problem, tho -- Tarnish (old Silver) had 4GB > KM> RAM because WinXP 32bit can't use more than that anyway (and it > KM> was what was handy at the time). Tried to give it 8GB since it's > KM> now hosting PCLOS, which benefits from more RAM. WOULD NOT BOOT! > KM> Guessing it's the same issue -- added power draw was too much for > KM> the defective circuit. > Might be a motherboard issue. KM> Ya think? this is the same board with the USB low voltage issue!! I'm starting to see a pattern! ...Brilliant thought: PSU issue?? > I have a Lenovo desktop and it is > supposed to take 8 GB (4x 2GB) but ugh-ugh: 2+2+1+1 is its max. And > not the single-sided vs. double-sided issue as played with that. KM> Which Lenovo board is that? M51-8141 KNB. ...Well that's weird: checked another file and it says it only takes 4 GB and has two slots. Definately has four slots. Maybe I have the wrong card in it? (It and a couple others are currently being stored.) > KM> Ah, well... when I get completely moved into New Silver, Cash can > KM> have its old job back (secondary PCLOS streaming box) and Tarnish > KM> can run ReactOS (which runs well on Tarnish, and doesn't like it > KM> when there's more than 4GB RAM anyway). > Sounds like winter projects! KM> At least, after the baseball season. But now they're showing reruns! > > Right: should keep the games and political ideologies separate. > KM> Yeah. It's been slow to penetrate baseball, and each spasm of > KM> Stupid has tended to quickly peter out, but when there's so much > KM> top-down Thou Shalting... hopefully this crap will die down > KM> everywhere without devolving into civil war. :( > Dad had his "Pendulum Theory": society's mindset swings back and forth, > compbined with what is good for one group is bad for another. KM> Yep, there is that. KM> Hard times create strong men. KM> Strong men create good times. KM> Good times create weak men. KM> Weak men create hard times. KM> ― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain Yup: goes right along. > KM> Did I gripe about CenturyLink yet? they changed my loop -- it got > KM> shorter, but my connection went from stable 5Mbps to unstable > KM> 4Mpbs, and am told by their now worthless tech support that it > KM> sucks to be me. One of the fixed wireless companies is now almost > KM> competitive price for faster connection... might have to switch. > It almost seems like CenturyLink is setting themselves up to fail. When KM> They don't seem to want customers anymore, that's for sure... That had been pretty much my thought for several years. It seemed like they weren't making much of an effort to combat Mediacom (cable) around here. Sure, CenturyLink is more telephone service with Internet and television as additional services and Mediacom more TV with Internet and telephone as additional but seems the average consumer looks at the three options as one, or at least best bang for the buck. And there have been fiber optic 'noises' for years. Some time ago the City of Bettendorf was considering offering free WiFi (so Internet) and then that faded and a bit later Metronet (fiber optic connection) made its bid to provide service to Davenport and Bettendorf. To me it would seem that should have shaken-awake CenturyLink: "hey, we're going to loose customers! That's income!" but AFAICT they just kept snoozing. Mediacom (cable) did (and continues to) actively upgrade their services and offer some rather attractive come-on pricings. > Think I told you, or at least posted, a few months ago had a line noise > (telephone) issue -- when that fixed I 'casually' asked to verify the > DSL speed before leaving - was my subscribed 7 Mbps. The tech did comment > surprised this area had 10 available as he had just come from an area > where 1 was the fastest. I didn't say anything but definitely thinking > this is city, not rural, and 10 is slow. KM> Egads... I did find the phone number for the local tech, assuming KM> the number still goes anywhere useful.. need to get around to KM> calling him. May or may not be useful. Last Spring called CenturyLink because of a very noisy and then loss of voice telephone (oddly DSL seemed reasonable). Two or three loose wires were found by the technician, whom I considered excellent: spent the time to track down and fix, plus was pleasant. Unfortunately he travelled the country -- had just come from Hawaii (!) and was going somewhere towards the East Coast next. > So yes, might be good for you to consider switching to the wireless > company. I'd be checking the connectivity: decent during bad weather KM> Had fixed wireless in SoCal and it was really spotty in anything KM> that looked like weather. Had fixed wireless in Clarkston MT and KM> it was solid even during a blizzard. One could hope the equipment KM> is getting better, but it's still strictly line of sight. And of course you don't know how good (or bad) it will be until after the installation. Any correlation to your cell phone service? > (rain, snow). There are also satellite options KM> Satellite has really nasty data caps, starting at 3GB/month, then KM> you pay an outrageous amount per GB or get limited to dialup KM> speed. I easily use 3GB in an average DAY. Satellite is not an KM> option. I guess not! > providers near me" and one hit was > www.HighSpeedInternet.com/ia/davenport -- so switch the locations. > Oddly didn't mention Metronet at all. KM> Companies pay to be listed on those sites. It's more a mark of KM> aggressive marketing than of availability. Where my sister is, KM> these sites have a dozen providers listed. Guess how many KM> actually service her area? One. Kind of figured there was some marketing involved as opposed to truth. ¯ BarryMartin3@ ® ¯ @MyMetronet.NET ® .... I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .