Subj : Slimmed down Debian To : Ky Moffet From : Barry Martin Date : Mon Jun 22 2020 09:31:00 Hi Ky! > > KM> These durn two-legged stools.... > > I wonder if that's why it was so cheap?! > KM> 30% off!! > If a three-legged stool closer to one-third! KM> I left a stump, in case it falls over. :) That should supply some stability! ...Just might not be too convenient to lug around. > > KM> This could be... which reminds me, ExplainingComputers has > > KM> another RPi video today. He's a very pleasant chap and has a way > > KM> of making stuff easily understood. > > I'll take a look some time. One thing I hope he explains and reminds > > frequently is with the RPI 4 to use the HDMI port nearest the power > > connector -- the other port won't give sound if the first one is empty. > > I'm not the first one to have had that simple problem. > KM> Leave him a comment about it! > Probably would do more 'as appropriate' as opposed to out of the blue. KM> He reads 'em all, so... OK. Right now a bigger project shoved its way to the front of the line: the new router with the fiber optic ISP changed the LAN to a different IP address set. Changing over (most of) the computers is no big deal; on the one I record the TV shows on the database is still being told to look at the old IP. Was given some tests over the weekend, did find the (hopefully not 'a') value that's reporting the old value, so hopefully get an answer this morning on how to fix. (Not sure if I found a bug or just something not set up right here originally.) > ..I'll have to find out why there are two HDMI ports. Handy for some > usages, but multiple monitors doesn't seem to be super-popular even with > 'regular'home use. Not uncommon, just doesn't seem to be common. KM> No idea, other than I suppose one use for these things is as a KM> splitter for security monitors. Right. Generally cheaper to buy two regular monitors than one super-wide monitor. > > KM> Sound policy! > > alsa or Pulseaudio?! > KM> Whichever one doesn't crash! > Ummm, both do with the cymbals sounds. ...Yeah: weak joke. KM> My Windows exit sound used to be breaking glass... WAV file came KM> with WordPerfect6 for DOS! That would be a better BSOD alert! > > AFAIK nothing was using the USB port at the time the backup was being > > made via Ethernet. (The original way when the CPU overheated.) USB > > devices were connected just because they were connected during the day > > but were not in active use. > KM> No, I mean does the network chip also send data through the > KM> southbridge? I'd guess it does, and that heated up the chip, and > KM> the system. > Oh. My guess is yes, though reading about Southbridge so do USB stuff. > LIS my guess is the regular backup was using a lot more CPU cycles > because creating a condensed file with numerous files zipped into the > one storage file, whereas the USB backup was a simply copy: just move > the data, not work on it too. KM> Moving data being that chip's job, that seems to be what heats it KM> up -- guessing it's a per-request thing rather than purely size. KM> ZIP might have been hard work in the olden daze, not so much for KM> modern PCs. Right on both; I don't really keep up with the details as don't need to delve into the Black Box that far, so general concepts and terminology used. Sometimes the old words no longer apply or don't fit quite right. I'll try to catch up! > Your turn to check! I'm sort of chuckling to myself on this end as I > remember the manual and I think even the promotional literature for my > original computer, the DEC Rainbow 100, specifically stated which > function was done by what CPU: video and memory by the first, floppy > drives by the second, that type of thing. Very out in the open. Now we > have to dig down into hard-to-find manuals. KM> Woah, that's specific!! It was!! I think maybe they (DEC) put it out there in the open to emphasize the two CPUs: "the DEC Rainbow 100 has two CPUs for faster processing" vs. "the DEC Rainbow 100 has two processors. The Z80 controls while the 8088 does ." Same information, and I'm not sure how much the user cares which processor does what as long as it's faster. > KM> Nice when the holes are convenient! you'd think it'd be a > KM> Generally Good Idea if only for better venting under the CPU, but > KM> it's far from universal. > Yes, though I took the lack of access as more for RFI shielding. (It > doesn't have to be anywhere near right for it to make sense to me > sometimes!) KM> I don't like these plexiglas cases exactly for that reason -- KM> lack of shielding. Of mine only Silver's has plexi panels, and KM> some year they'll get broken and I'll find some sheet tin to KM> rivet into the spots. Really good case otherwise, but lordy, KM> gamers and their desire to show off their guts... Look! The fans are spinning really-really fast! I've got one, maybe two cases with a see-through panel. (Obviously that's how impressed I am with the option!) Remember when buying the one case liking everything about the case except that see-through panel. Kept looking, if I liked the case not enough slots or something else; enough slots and case was ugly or expensive. Finally got the case with the clear panel. With one placement the open side was against the side of the desk so didn't show other than a red glow (side panel also had a fan with red LEDs - fortunately just static). Another build later and the case was in my old computer stand, again with the clear panel obscured by the cabinet side panel. > KM> In my observation, more fins too close is better than too few > KM> fins far apart. Tho I don't know what's optimal; surely some > KM> engineer has done the math. > And some green-visored bookkeeper has done the math and taken away the > efficiency for having more profit! KM> Likely so... more fins uses more metal and costs more! "We want profit!" "We want something that works at a reasonable price!" KM> [PIs] > Hey! My "could be the truth/sounds good to me" finally gets a little > validation! Quite sure there are other small/tiny board computers > out there which are more efficient for some of the jobs I'm having the > RPi do, as you indicated, Sometimes being more familiar with one > brand/style is more efficient. The very inexpensive Raspberry Zero > would probably be a better choice for a few projects around here, just > means potentially more cases, power supplies, etc., to stock. KM> Yeah, there's something to be said for settling on a standard and KM> sticking to it... like, not having to relearn from scratch! To me that has advantages! You do some sort of IT work, so pays to be familiar with various OSs. Me, I'm just doing it as a hobby and "less is more". (Though I counted six live computers just up here!) > > Why? Carbon monoxide doesn't smell! If the generator was placed in > KM> Supposedly not, but actually it does have a sort of dirty-damp > KM> scent. (Then again, I'm somewhere waaaaaaay over beyond > KM> Supertaster, which is also Supersmeller...) > Makes sense. Could be most people are unable to sense CO or you react > to the CO and get that musty smell reaction. There have been times KM> Yeah, so long as I'm alerted, I don't care why! Kept smelling KM> something I didn't like... discovered a rotted-out flue under the KM> house... well, that explains it! (Replaced along with the furnace KM> that died last winter.) That perforated flue could have turned you blue! (CO effect.) I sort of start to 'freak out' at the beginning of the heating season when the dust is burning off inside the furnace: something's burning! (OK, smoldering, getting hot.) Not right! Need to find the problem before it gets worse! ...OK, not to that degree but enough I got into a bit of an alert state even though I know it's only the furnace. > (rare) when I went sniffing as "something wasn't right". The CO > Detector didn't trigger, but then it's one of those ones without the > level display -- I'm going back to that type when this one expires. KM> Level display does sound better. Yes, just like the older cars had gauges on the dash. I may not know what they do or mean but that 'oil' one has been pointing low of where it usually is - better get checked. (Topped off with half a quart.) Now: tum-de-dum -- oh! The oil can is lit up! Down three quarts! > > KM> I must have a dozen, if not more. But I don't bother removing > > KM> them, and PCLOS, being a rolling release, gets updates more or > > KM> less continuously. > > That might be part of the reason why you have so many. > KM> Likely so! new one a couple days ago. Along with updating just > KM> about everything else. > All new! All improved! Now back to the drawing board to fix those > problems the fix of the old problems created!! KM> And that's how it went. Something in the installs from this year KM> is messing up kioslave, whatever that is, so can't do disk KM> anything. My old install does not have the problem even after KM> updates. (Keeping fingers, toes, eyes, and wires crossed...) Kioslave -- sounds like something not politically correct or a new medication one shoudl ask their doctor about just because the advertisement said to! I'd sort of guess with the 'io' in there might have something to do with an input-output, especially as you said "can't do disk anything". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIO KIO (KDE Input/Output) is a system library incorporated into KDE Frameworks 5 and KDE Software Compilation 4. It provides access to files, web sites and other resources through a single consistent API. Applications, such as Konqueror and Dolphin, which are written using this framework, can operate on files stored on remote servers in exactly the same way as they operate on those stored locally, effectively making KDE network-transparent. This allows for an application like Konqueror to be both a file manager as well as a web browser. KIO slaves are libraries that provide support for individual protocols (e.g. HTTP, FTP, SMB, SSH, FISH, SFTP, SVN, TAR). The KDE manual app KHelpCenter has a KIOSlaves section that lists the available protocols with a short description of each. Huh: must be using a Pentium to split-process this portion: Stable release 5.71.0 (June 13, 2020; 3 days ago) It's June 22 as I write this! > KM> Actually, am having trouble finding something that agrees to > KM> install on Fireball; Windows everything whines about the BIOS not > KM> being compliant (it was a Win7 workstation, you ninny!) tho PCLOS > KM> runs just fine... > Not sure if this is of any help: > https://www.linux.org/threads/i-cant-install-linux.12399/ KM> Nope... I can install linux on it. I can install Win10 on it. KM> (Apparently the board has an embedded license, as W10 KM> auto-activated itself.) I can run a 'portable' Win7 on it, but KM> Win7 will not install. Given its intended job as fileserver (cuz KM> native SAS ports) I'd really rather have XP64 on it, but may not KM> be in the cards. Ahhhh!! I have an old DVD that does something similar: will only run on a specific version of Windows (came bundled with something we sold at the store). I did get it to work once altering some parameter, or maybe a form of virtual machine - LIS been years. KM> Speaking of disk support... I'm wondering how I partitioned the KM> NVMe on a Win7 setup when Win7 does not natively support NVMe, KM> and the hotfix to support it has been killed off. BUT! I found a KM> patch and driver that work on XP64. Tada! KM> http://doomgold.com/pcstuff/NVMe.rar Got it - thanks! And congratulations of sorts ;) : you're the first file I downloaded since getting fiber optic. Click, done - really?! > More for Linux installation issues because of motherboard manufacturer > issues but could give a clue to get around the Microsoft installation > problem. KM> Nope, doesn't seem to apply. And my response to "linux won't KM> install" has always been to throw out that distro and find KM> another one. That can work! I done something similar with utilities: too complicated to get to install, probably too much work to get to work or work with. > KM> So you were good whether you wanted to be or not. whip> > I odn't know how much food training I would have done should > she have been of proper weight: treats are expensive, not something I'd > carry around just for fun, and to me positive re-inforcement sometimes KM> Oh, it's been all the rage for some time. And now we have a KM> generation of ill-mannered brats that we never had before. Cuz KM> gods forbid that you ever make Poopsie FEEL bad. (Negative KM> reinforcement is rather more important than positive, but try KM> telling the feelgood crowd that.) I'm probably going to step on a few toes on the various sides of the topic but here goes. I'm also going to be viewing more from the casual cityified dog owner. It seems most people want a buddy out of their pet dog and "to love me I have to give you freedom to do anything and lavish you with gifts [treats]". That usually ends up with the owner getting walked all over and the dog is more the owner of the human. With Honey, my Lhasa Apso, unknown adoption history so some retraining, plus her getting accustomed to a new and apparently less menacing environment. At the time the back yard wasn't fully fenced; didn't want her wandering in to the neighbour's back yard. There were some shrubs along the line so used them as a visual cue of which side to stay on. Walked her around the yard on leash, started with the fenced side which also has some shrubs and plants; she started to wander too close to the fence would tighten the leash slightly and I'd say "this side!" -- maybe a 'come here' type command at first too. Verbal praise, maybe a petting; didn't have any treats on me so no munchies. She did learn to stay with me, not wander. > needs to be done on-the-fly and a "you did good" voicing and neck rub > sort of thing might be all that's available. Sort of thinking simply > going for a walk, no real need to bring along treats (sort of defeating KM> Yeah, there's the thing... a treat is a bribe. If there's KM> something else more interesting, or the bribe is not to be had, KM> the response is likely to be "screw you". "I'm not hungry" or "my stomach's upset" and the food treat is not wanted and so meaningless. Verbal praise and petting is usually desireable any time. KM> Also, in nature the KM> underling gives the treat to the boss, who then may decide to KM> graciously share -- so treat-based training confuses good dogs, KM> and with outlaws just reinforces their notion that they're the KM> boss. Main reason it 'works' with today's robotic obedience and KM> agility dogs is because they're kept a bit starved, so will do KM> anything-for-food. Hmmm! so sort of push-the-button-for-food. I may have trained Honey the right way sort of accidentally but seemed to make more sense. Her treat was praise, which hopefully made her feel good. > the purpose!), going to cross the street and the dog sits in front of my > path, preventing me from being squished by a car. KM> Well, you'd hope Was sitting in the side yard yesterday morning because the power was out and so can't do anything inside and the fans not circulation air was getting a little stuffy. Maybe out there 45 minutes, an hour. Not one car! Only saw the power company's truck slow down to check the pole transformer in all that time. Did see a 'people': guy walking his dog. Two jets. > KM> (Similarly, repeat breedings in dogs are never the same quality, > KM> and sometimes very different... well, here's an explanation. > I'm in computer mode: thinking analog vs. digital duplication! KM> LOL, if only!! That could be the premise for a science-fiction book! ...One of the female cashiers at the store would read romance novels on break -- could sort of see a Fabio-type cover with a bit of robot revealed. Soft- graphic "John!" "Marsha!" segments alternating between the analog and digital coupling - and now the monster coming out of the stomach (like in Alien?? -- not sure if the right movie). ...Must have had a couple of fermented grapes with breakfast -- sheesh!! > KM> There may actually be truth in the old contention that a > KM> crossbreeding forever ruins the dam.) May also affect the male's > KM> future offspring, depending on the degree of exposure to the > KM> female's immune factors (dogs get a lot via the 'tie') and which > KM> sperm get advantaged or disadvantaged by it. > Makes sense: the coupling activity is not just one direction. I would > assume the reasoning behind the slight changes is to maintain a > diversity in the line (not sure if 'lineage' is correct): Darwin type > stuff: this option is good in this enviro ment but not so good in a > slight variance, so excat duplication in offspring isn't a good idea. KM> Actually the other way around. "Diversity" is probably the most KM> abused concept in all of biology. When wild animals were actually KM> DNA-profiled, turned out they were far more genetically KM> homogeneous than domestic animals -- on average the wild types KM> were 25% inbred, while dogs, perhaps the most inbred of all KM> domestic species, average somewhere in the 3 to 8% range. (D'ya KM> really think that buck CARES that half those does are his KM> daughters and/or half-sisters??) Keep the best options going! ...The buck just wants to ...umm! KM> How you can not know this just from looking... in a herd of 100 KM> wild deer, you'll be hard pressed to pick one out, because they KM> all look exactly alike. But 100 dogs, even of the same breed, KM> will look like 100 different dogs. Fact is domestic breeding KM> preserves tons of genes that in nature would be Darwined away. Dogs specifically bred to enhance some feature beneficial to humans but not necessarily to nature in general. KM> And yeah, wild species often have coping issues if conditions KM> change, or if a new disease comes through. Deer are a great KM> example of this, what with the mass die-offs that happen when KM> they get too overpopulated. Ditto rabbits. Yup: we have a fairly major deer population in this area: every so often used to see deer trotting down the street in front of the house -- and this is an established residential neighbourhood. Seem to have been chased out or their access blocked since they started with the construction of the new I-74 Bridge seveal years ago. Scott County Park allows bow and arrow deer hunting during a specific time of year to trim the herd. A few other areas on both sides of the River do similar. > > KM> Lego PCs :) > > Maybe the next one I'll call 'Eggo'! (Le'go my Eggo. ...Wrong one!) > KM> Hahaha -- that ad always makes me wonder about the relationship > KM> between waffles and Legos :D > Waffles generally don't have the outies so don't stack securely. KM> Ah, that explains why the Waffle House fell down! > > KM> Our usual method being to just Make S#1t up. :D > > As long as it sounds plausible! We just need to post to a website to > > make it valid! > KM> Is that how it works? I shall proceed to post everything I wish > KM> to be true. Ky is a billionaire. Ky was just appointed dictator > KM> for life. > We're assuming 'billionaire' was referring to a currency and not > ownership of a billion grass clippings! KM> Oh, that I already have... and five lawn mowers in various stages KM> of worn out. Hey look! This one has the blade worn out! KM> Did you know there are whole communities of folks who collect KM> lawn mowers? :) Why do I feel like I'm being set up for a really weird joke?! Let's see.... Frisbyterians, souls to the roof... > And if you're a benevolent dictator might not be all that bad. KM> I often say, "When I become dictator" just before espousing some KM> excellent policy. "Excellent policy" to who's benefit?! > KM> Yeah, for another $25 I'd get the extra 4GB, assuming all else > KM> equal. But I do like the idea of all those in the same generation > KM> being cross-compatible -- simplifies rolling out a bunch of > And so far an inexpensive kit seems to be cheaper and easier than > buying the wallwart power supply, sub-HDMI to HDMI cable, the case -- > seems like another item or two but essentially those little necessary > parts. KM> WAAAAY too many parts. Well, we don't _need_ the case, though I sort of used it as a heat sink and heat radiator. > > KM> Something Went Wrong!! :O > > That sounds like a Windows error message! > KM> Actually, that's the official MacOS error message!! > > ======================= > = Whoops! = > = We made a boo-boo! = > ======================= > KM> Oh, we KNOW that's not an Apple error.. they would never admit KM> that "We" made a boo-boo!! So go windows: the icon says "My Computer", so not yours! > KM> KM> parts sitting in my driveway> > So am I as I haven't looked for 'em yet! KM> Haha... I don't know what 'treasures' I need, but I'm sure there KM> must be some. Oh, maybe a clue to the lawn mower thing up there: there's some island culture using huge rings of rock as currency ('treasure'), so maybe the lawn mowers are being used as currency! ...This is worth 1 lawn mower, this is worth one mow job.... > > Ha-ha - yes! Some times it's I know it's around here some place -- was > > in a blue box..... > KM> At least you color-coded your junk before you lost it! > Pretty good for a guy who's somewhat colour-blind! Have switched most > of my storage to Banker's Boxes ==> more consistent size easier to stack > and store. Some will have boxes with the box, so looking for that blue > box still is a clue. Have been labelling in a temporary/permanent > manner: half a sheet of 8«"x11" paper, fold in half the long way and rip > that in half, fold the piece in half and use a thicker felt tip pen to > make a general list: "audio cables", though video cables are separated > by VGA as got a ton and a small box (not a Banker's Box - yet!) for HDMI > and DVI, plus the HDMI couplers. Detailing of the contents depends how > assorted the contents is. KM> I need to do something like that, instead of "overflowing boxes KM> sitting in the middle of the floor, apparently full of very thin KM> snakes during mating season". Yeah, had that here! Loosely coil the cables, secure with twist-ties or appropriate lengths of scrap wire. I sometimes use two if the coil is poofing out at the unsecured side. (The scrap wire is solid core, left over from various electronics projects or snipped from spools. Electrical wire is too thick.) > As for my laser printer I am on my second set (first set was the initial > starter set). I've got another 1,000 pages to go before considering > buying replacement magenta -- other two have about 1500+ pages and the > black guessing 3,000. KM> I have a color laser I picked up cheap (with extra carts) but KM> haven't got around to setting it up... ended up less motivated KM> than I expected. Wireless so main thing is finding an outlet... KM> scarce in this house. That's a problem with older houses: back when they were built not as much electrical stuff so less need for outlets. Electrician I knew when I was working at the college updated his place with quad instead of duplex outlets, so a cluster of four instead of the usual two outlets per 'wall outlet'. > As for your HP driver, not a good attitude on their part and could cost > them sales. KM> Oh yeah, did not make me happy at all. But they still have 35 KM> year old HPLJ2 drivers on their site, probably cuz lawyers use KM> 'em, and lawyers can create much more grief... I did not remind KM> whoever I was arguing with. But that nice wide-carriage printer KM> will not be useful, instead will someday be deemed clutter and go KM> into the trash, and if I ever need another, will buy some other KM> brand. (It was free, but still.) Probably so on the lawyers portion: cheaper and easier to maintain storage than fight lawsuits. ...I wonder what it would cost to ship my Epson FX-286? (Yeah, I'll carry the shipping initially but expect it back.) > > And I've kept other older stuff just because of having older computers: > > why get rid of a daughtercard or whatever just to end up maybe needing > > it later? > KM> THIS!!! no matter what you deem too outdated to keep and > KM> therefore throw away, THAT will be the next weird thing you need > KM> and can't find!!! > Yup! Years ago I repaired a pole lamp for one of the kids using a > plastic part leftover from a toilet repair kit (!). KM> Congrats, here's your Proper Midwesterner Badge Thank you! > Heatsink sounds like a very good idea, along with maybe a strip of > asbestos insulation if flush against the motherboard. (Asbestos?! Yeah > - from the odds and ends box we've been fill with "throw that junk out!" > stuff for years!!) KM> Haha, yeah... junk you can't buy anymore gets suddenly valuable! Very true! And sometimes as important is I don't have to re-buy it. (The plumbing part may have been 'free' as included inthe kit but I still paid for it in the price of the pit.) > > Hadn't head about Gnome and the swipe thing -- we have to get touch > > screens now or right_click and move? (semi-joke). Might be in 20.04, > > I'm at 18.04. > KM> Oh, I mean the way the desktop operates, where you don't have > KM> static icons, you have a display that you crank back and forth. > KM> Drives me to drink. > Oh, that! yes, I've occasionally done something to scroll my display to > another window. I think it's Settings > Display > number of windows. > Obviously I haven't changed it! ...Took a quick look, that's not right. > Maybe I was thinking the Raspberry Pi. KM> Not desktops; how the icons are displayed. Drives me mad. Just have to write your own preference! KM> I think there are supposed to be four desktops, even if I never KM> use 3 of 'em. I like the OpenBox names for 'em: Air, Earth, Fire, KM> and Water. That sounds mystical! > > But Microsoft _never_ steals nor does underhanded things like that! > KM> Well, technically you can't 'steal' opensource... I don't think > KM> it would be a good move, tho, and not only because having > KM> alternative ecosystems is generally a good thing. Switching their > KM> codebase to linux is what basically killed Novell -- they went > KM> from having an utterly unique product to being just another Linux > KM> also-ran, which sealed the company's fate. > Yup: would seem like using open source code (Free BSD?) would make what > makes Windows unique just another version. KM> Yeah... of course MacOS is really mangled BSD, but Apple users KM> generally have too few clues to know that. And BSD doesn't KM> require 'giving back' altered source code (being rather more KM> truly free than the GPL), so Apple can hide what they're doing. KM> Linux base, tho, would require source be made available, since KM> the M/a/r/x/i/s/t/ GPL license requires that. Good and bad points to each. I wouldn't know where to begin on altering/ updating/correcting source code. I've sort of looked at some here to see about making something work better for me. Was a home-brewed copy routine: the 'direct' way wasn't working so did figure out a work-around. (No, wasn't for this computer, a different one.) > KM> Oh, going down ain't so fun either... mower wants to run away > KM> from me! But yeah, sideways part, the mower has to be full of gas > KM> or it stalls out. > Mow with the tank on the other side! KM> Actually I do have to do that! Tends to avoid the worry about the gasoline spilling out and being lit on fire, though the horizontal bands of flames is rather eye-catching to view! > > > > .. If say "I always lie", am I lying? > > KM> Yes. No. > > True! > KM> False! > Um, "X"? KM> Marks the spot. Right where I'm ticklish! ¯ ® ¯ Barry_Martin_3@ ® ¯ @Q.COM ® ¯ ® .... Damascus, Syria, founded 753 BC, is oldest continuously inhabited city. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47 þ wcECHO 4.2 ÷ ILink: The Safe BBS þ Bettendorf, IA --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .