Subj : Re: Slimmed down Debian To : Barry Martin From : Ky Moffet Date : Thu Jun 11 2020 19:55:00 BARRY MARTIN wrote: > Hi Ky! > > KM> Someday your prints will come. > KM> -- motto of the serial printer. > > "Psst! CTS?" "Huh?" "Is it Clear to Send?" > > Or maybe as Mr. Miaggi could say to Grasshopper: "XON, XOFF... > XON, XOFF...." Wait, I don't have a backup?? > KM> Xeon systems. But AMD's philosophy is why bother when gamers will > KM> replace it with some fancy aftermarket cooling to compensate for > KM> their overclocking habit. > > Almost seems the Green-visored Ones would say to ship without any > heatsink/fan and save the money. Sell as an accessory and mark up the > price. ...Legal Department might be mooing as some sort of cooling is > required and there would be a significant number of purchasers who would > rip off the yellow warning sticker and run without any cooling. And there's the fact that like everyone else making hardware, their real money comes from selling to OEMs. Yonder HP/Compaq (the one with Vista) has an Asus motherboard with an AMD CPU, functionally identical to Westworld (another someone gift me), except that the HP BIOS is locked, so it's stuck with the CPU it has (otherwise it would be somewhat upgradeable), while Westworld got an upgrade. Anyway, OEMs don't want to have to piddle around, they just want a matched unit. > KM> I have two of those cheap little HP heatpipe coolers, on the two > KM> hottest CPUs, and they do a stellar job. First time I checked, > KM> the i7-4820K (130W) was running at a barely-warm 82F. (Tho at the > KM> moment SIW has lost its marbles and thinks it's 478F. Er, I don't > KM> think so; I can put my finger on the cooler's foot and it's > KM> barely warm.) > > But you're one tough man! ...Can't find it now but at one time PSensor > displayed one thermal sensor as a couple hundred degrees below zero! Wow, now that's good cooling! > Since swapping in the CoolerMaster EVO cooler the maximum CPU > temperature I've seen has been just below 120øF -- and considering there > are times when it's been 85ø here in the Computer Room probably not a > number. Yeah, that's about the improvement I'd expect. IOW, down to normal. > > Prior to swapping it out the room was a lot cooler -- upper 60's/lower > 70's but the CPU would hit thermal cutoff (listed at 70øC/158øF but I > don't recall mine) -- doing the backup overnight was frequently sending > over the edge so I would be waking to a shut-down machine. "Oddly" the > backup would automatically restart in the morning and while running hot > didn't quite reach the I Quit stage. With the CoolerMaster EVO cooler > the max temp was 111øF. No idea on that.. why should backups done at night run hotter? Um... are you sure another PC wasn't sneaking upstairs and getting it on with the backup system?? that would explain the heat... > > approved" heatsink/fan combo which kept the FX-8320 processor > > sufficiently cool as long as it didn't do much work. > KM> ..."as long as it didn't do too much work" is the very > KM> description of inadequate cooling! > > Maybe that was the reason for the multiple cores: you're getting too > hot, hand your processes over and take a break. Haha, that would be AMD's reasoning, all right. > KM> I've had the thought that a generator that could run off the > KM> natural gas line would be a Good Thing. > > It will be, though not falling through the deck seems to be a better > idea right now. No, really? :D So I went looking for "natural gas generator sine wave" and first thing I came to... https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/ I'd never even heard of these, but they start around $300. Ideally tho, one would want it hardwired into the house, and vented into the furnace flue. Some whining from Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/inverter-generators/pros-and-cons-of-inverter-generators/ Interesting video from another manufacturer I never heard of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsRGKRzLQJM Interesting that they're using Honda engines... back when I first looked into a generator (never bought one), Honda generators were just a Briggs & Stratton generator in a prettied up case (for an additional $1200). > They were trimming branches several years ago and dropped one across a > major transmission line (40,000, 400,000 volts - was up there) -- oops! OOOPS! > KM> I don't know LivePatch? PCLOS does updates on the fly, but you > KM> have to restart to load a newly-arrived kernel. There've been so > KM> many this year that GRUB's list has become very long. I've never > KM> had to boot to an older kernel, but not worth the bother to > KM> remove 'em, either. > > LivePatch is something relatively new -- think it started with or maybe > mid- Ubuntu 16.04. At first I didn't use it -- wait to have the others > test it out; every so often will see a notification an update has been > applied; looking in Notifications History one was done 18 hours ago, so > around 2 p.m. yesterday. No idea what it updated, then three-quarters > of the time I had no idea what it was asking about (permission to apply > an update). Sometimes I bother looking through the Info list, more often not, as I don't have any apps locked (not updateable) on that system, so it can do whatever it likes. > As for older kernels, I haven't had to go into that option in ages. > Handy to have just in case, though two or three is probably all needed. > OTOH, "if it ain't broke" (let me take crack at it! ). Pretty much! Then again, it's kinda interesting to have the list, another reason to just leave it be. It default boots to whichever one I picked last anyway, so no nuisance after the first restart post-update. > > I'll have to play around later. Did check and I am currently running > > 4096 MB (so 4 GB) memory for this XP Virtual Machine. I do recall > > increasing to that amount definitely improved the response. Seems moreI > KM> The default is something like 512mb which is a trifle cramped. > > Here there was "noticeable sluggishness". I think just drawing out the > display was took one or two coffee slurps. Yeah, that's what I'd expect! I'm not sure how it handles swapfile but if present, it's gotta be stuffed in there too. > > have an issue with video sluggishness: Video Memory at 20 MB currently, > > which seems horrendously tiny but off-hand don't recall the reasoning. > KM> 8mb should suffice for XP that's not doing recentish gaming. I > KM> think VirtualBox defaults it to 128mb which is overkill for basic > KM> use. > > OK, thanks. I vaguely recall playing with the video memory values and > don't recall why I settled on the 20 MB value. I would do a power of 2, so use 32 instead of 20. Thinking this is more likely to align with what the OS expects of video RAM. I just leave it at 128mb since I have the RAM to spare and that should cover all possible use cases. > KM> Except not today. The crappy socket939 box that was reassigned to > KM> ReactOS (cuz that AMD CPU don't do proper 64bit) decided to pop a > KM> capacitor, and it looks like it's the same general location as my > KM> slightly newer one with the southbridge problem. Methinks there's > KM> a reason Asus went to solid capacitors. > > They were cheaper than warranty motherboard replacements?! Oh, these never fail in warranty... probably more like was cheaper than the bad reputation from lots of fails in systems owned by noisy gamers! > KM> Still debating what goes on Fireball, tho since chances are it > KM> eventually replaces Bullet (when/if it ever dies) ... XP64! > > Don't you just love new operating systems?! NO!! > > so she (hopefully) wouldn't get confused: "you want to go outside- > > bathroom?", hopefully coupling the 'outside' concept of "do you want to > > go outside" to play, go for a walk, etc., and not confuse with one of > > saying we had to go to the bathroom. > KM> Oh yes, they can make those connections well enough. > > I sort of know dogs (and other animals) can connect thoughts and > understand or at least get the idea of what a human is saying, so the > 'trick' is to minimize the 'foreign language' confusion. Sloppy example > would be "roll over" and offering a roll (the bread kind) with "do you > want a roll?". Would almost make sense on "do you want a roll?" the dog > would roll over. Actually... if you just talk to them a lot, they will learn natural language about as well as a human child of similar intelligence. A very bright dog is about on par with a bright 6 year old, or maybe a little better, and can understand consequences about as well too (that being a good definition of functional intelligence); a dumb dog is more like an early toddler. Average is probably around same as 3 year old human. (But I've bred for intelligence for so long that merely-average dogs now seem retarded.) The idea that it's just a reflexive response to a familiar sound is nonsense. > > ..So "Mageia"..... Nothing coming even semi-clever coming to mind. > KM> I still haven't named the 3 Dells anything clever, tho Larry, > KM> Darryl, and Darryl comes to mind. > > Especially if two of the Dells were essentially identical! Three of 'em, they're triplets! Tho oddly, despite being 'identical' they're not quite the same in subtle ways, which affect how Windows runs. Which is why one got picked to stay Win7; it ran best. > > get too mixed up" philosophy with MythTV being based on Ubuntu it sort > > of made sense to learn or at least be more familiar with Ubuntu to > > troubleshoot MythTV. > KM> So there's some method to your masochism. > > Yup! Just not always so apparent from the surface. (Why am I thinking > "deep down I'm really shallow"?) You need to refill your pool. > > > KM> I live where the power goes out in bad weather. I like gas > > KM> engines. > KM> I also don't like the idea of trusting to an electric car when > KM> there are stretches of up to 200 miles between power outlets. > > Just bring along a power pack! Most of my travels I'd be within 20 > miles of an outlet -- the one at the house. The store where I worked was > only five miles away, so a ten-mile round trip. Any long distance > travelling we always took the other car. I need an 'other car' but only because the F350 is 1) a pain to park, 2) not 4 wheel drive (does well on ice, not in snow), and 3) the suspension is so stiff that washboards make it go off the road sideways, so back roads wandering is right out. (World's best highway and towing truck, but NOT a dirt road truck.) So I've been looking for something like an older Explorer or Ranger, but so far no joy (at least in my very low price range)... older cuz I want it up on legs so easy to put chains on, and the newer ones (aside from being ugly) sit too low. > It was sort of a no-brainer. We did ask about checking with > the neighbours: three other houses get power from the same transformer; > the supervisor (guess so - he seemed to be in charge) said it didn't > matter as the pole was on our property so we got to make the decision. Haha, there's a perk! > > As for powering a generator, the little ones tend to put out square > > waves which will ruin electronics and some electrical. The bigger gas- > KM> You can get a sine-wave convertor, tho. > > Probably true; I sort of prefer 'doing it right' from the beginning, so > would be a small one with a sine wave output. See above...this seems to be more the default than not anymore. > KM> Natural gas. :D > KM> What did I just say? :D > Oh, so you think natural gas would be the better way to go?! Money is > and isn't the problem: having enough spare money for an emergency is > sort of a requirement. Yes, loans can be done; will see about maybe > combining the deck replacement with the NG generator. Just got the roof > replaced (hail damage) and while the insurance covered most of that > didn't cover it all (so the need for some 'spare' money). Owwww. Been there done that... > KM> Actually, I found a P3-500 is about the minimum for decoding > KM> DVDs, and it's real borderline (has spasms of being unable to > KM> keep up). The old DVDs default to what, 720p? so there's your > KM> baseline. The P233 could not play MP4s without a lot of > KM> stuttering and staggering, and DVDs were right out. > > Yes on the 720 resolution; anything higher is an up-conversion. Was Ah, I was not imagining things. > looking at the notes I have on one of Frontend computers: AMD (!) - got > it several years back; video card will output at least 1080 because > that's what the max the local TV stations use. (Know NBC uses 1080 > while FOX uses 720; dont' recall ABC and CBS off-hand.) Don't look at me, I ain't got no TV! > Also half-remembering at least though MythTV version 0.28 it almost > didn't matter what the CPU specs were as long as halfway current as > loaded in to RAM and used the GPU in the video card. Pretty much anything that can run linux well enough to not tear your hair out is enough for video. Linux really needs at least a multicore 2GHz system (unless you're using a minimal distro like Puppy) to run decently, which is about 20x more horsepower than the P3-500. So should be totally no worries there. > KM> Oh, there's an Ooopsie, then. There was a bug in some of that era > KM> that would crop up and do something like that, but I never > KM> encountered it. You're special. > > Thank you! :) I don't know if it was a bug -- seems the hard drive was > old enough that wasn't the cause. I always thought it was more like a RW > arm or head fell off or wire broke. No reasoning other than seemed like > a good excuse to me. Um, that would simply quit, and make clacking noises as the arm bangs back and forth looking for it knows not what. (Yes, I've seen one with the head detached... that's exactly what it did.) > > KM> Actually, tho... if it was FAT32, there's your problem. Unstable > KM> once the data exceeds 32GB. I *have* experienced that one. > > "250 GB" seems to be coming to mind, though that also was my go-to size > for a lot of the computers around here. > > I'd also guess if the hard drive was reformatted to something capable of > greater than the 32GB limit it would have brought the drive back to > life. Sans data, but would have been seen as 128 GB, 240 GB, whatever. > I do recall trying to get the original capacity back with various FATs > but unable to, and the size always seemed to be reported about the same. This is why we format things NTFS; it doesn't have this silly bug. Yep, discovering the data wrapping bug was when I stopped using FAT32 for anything newer than Win98. > > > Have read where some businesses' software can't be upgraded to something > > more current just because it doesn't exist so they have to stick with > > antique hardware to run the software. > KM> Yeah, lot of that with specialty ISA cards for industrial > KM> applications. > > I wonder if anything I have in the basement is worthwhile?! And now > that I typed that can't recall what I have; know I put some old stuff > out for electronic recycle several months ago. Was a day when NASA scarfed up 486s... utterly known set of bugs and features, a good thing when the PC tech is half a solar system away! You can actually buy an i7 motherboard with ISA slots now, made by DFI so it's probably pretty good. They sell 'em direct for about $300. If Moonbase's board ever dies (P4 with ISA slots), I'm lookin' at one of these. > > > As for you seven 1GB sticks, odd, but semi-sorta makes sense: I have an > > old Lenovo system with came with three 1 GB sticks -- four slots and the > KM> To make matters odder, the seven sticks are server RAM > KM> (registered ECC). > > That is getting odder! And no more useful! > KM> Some of 'em are cranky, tho might your second pair were > KM> single-sided or ECC, either of which would not work, tho > KM> single-sided sometimes not works in creative ways (shows up as > KM> half the size, or even smaller). > > Right. The single-sided vs. double0sided did come to mind, and I tried > various combinations/placements of the 2 GB sticks. With another > computer several years ago did did have the issue where upgraded and was > given a physically double-sided stick along with a physically > single-sided stick. The single-sided one was detected as half the > value, I think when paired with any of the double-sided sticks. > Returned (was brick-and-mortar), explained my problem and the guy was > familiar, got a physically matching pair and had no problems. Yep, that was commonly how it went! > > KM> I have an Amptron motherboard (quality-wise from well beneath the > KM> barrel) with a P4-2.4GHz CPU, and it has thoroughly weird ideas > KM> about RAM... 2 slots and theoretically it supports 2GB (or was it > KM> 4GB, I forget) but will only boot with a 512mb and 256mb -- AND > KM> they have to NOT be the same speed or timing specs. Matched pair > KM> = no boot! > > You win that quirkiness contest!! > > Guess a good idea to keep the old RAM from discarded/upgraded systems > just in case ever needed. Some HPLaserJets take standard PC RAM... that's where some of my old 72pin SIMMs went, maxing out RAM in an HPLJ. I had it, so why not? > I've play a bit with photo format converting software (MP4 to AVI) and > rejected at least one because the icons were illegible. Hard to use > that way! Yeah, that would be a problem!! > > Oops! ...I sort of stopped using smaller hard drives on the various > > MythTV Frontends as they took a relatively long time to boot. > KM> Until relatively recently, linux had poor to absent disk caching, > KM> which made it glacial on hard drives with small cache. > > I don't recall the cache numbers but would guess a decent amount as were > usually Western Digitals or Seagates. The brand doesn't guarantee > decent cache amounts, just a general guideline, and wasn't an off-brand. Actually.. WDs had decent HD caching back to about the 2GB era; Seagates still sucked as of 40GB (they were supposed to have some, but it apparently did not work), but seem to be better since. However, Seagates still die in random and unexpected ways, which WDs typically do not. I don't buy Seagate, because of the higher fail rate. Will use one if it falls on my head (ouch!) but won't pay for 'em. Backblaze's stats back up my contention that that Seagate sucks. > > KM> Nope, just doing I/O stupidly, I think. > > Microsoft: where we write a new operating system, test, release, then > > find it doesn't work right so we create a new OS. Profits are great!! > KM> Haha... I wonder what they plan to do with their cloud OS, since > KM> they've said Win10 will be the last version of Windows. If they > KM> want everyone to rush right out and buy it, just slap XP's > KM> interface on Win10... that way they don't need another version of > KM> Windows!! > > Plus cheaper as have the developing is done! I've not been paying all > that close attention to Windows but thought "Windows 10" was going to be > their last, though still have progressive upgrades and verions -- > sounded confusing as "I have Windows 10" "Which one?" "Windows 10!" > "Which Windows 10?" and "I just upgraded my Windows 10 to Windows 10!" > (Huh?!) Oh yeah, that's enough to drive men mad. I have Win10-early on Westworld (in fact the way Win10 reminded me of the original movie is why that box got the name), and it is not much like Win10-current that's sitting unloved on one of the Dells. And Win10 has definitely not improved, some 10,000 builds later... all it's done is get more and more annoying. Hopefully KDE will stop copying this "modern" BS that's wrecking computer desktops... Trinity is XP-like but not as stable. > Cut the grass before the roofers came for last Monday -- could have gone Oh, THAT's what I'm supposed to be doing... there's another hour of daylight, and it's cooled off a bit.. need the mosquito gear, tho... > another day or two but easier to find nails and other debris in short > grass -- as it was we found a brass fitting for the nail gun their > magnetic pick up missed ('cause brass isn't magnetic!). Not sure how > they missed it as was bright brass (actually looked like it hadn't even > been used yet). Sweet :D > Yesterday (Tuesday) they finished the roof -- whoever calculated didn't > do the figuring correctly; wasn't the roofers as they were ones to > discover the shortage and called their boss to try to get the balance > that afternoon (Monday). Also Cristobal hiked through the area Who is Cristobal, a used hurricane? > yesterday; this morning cool but huuuumid, and another rain system > should be wandering through by noon. ...By tomorrow (Thursday) might > have been needing a scythe and sickle to get through! That's why I got the mechanical goat! (heavy-duty string mower) þ RNET 2.10U: ILink: Techware BBS þ Hollywood, Ca þ www.techware2k.com --- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462 * Origin: ILink: CFBBS | cfbbs.no-ip.com | 856-933-7096 (454:1/1) .